Selective Aggression

[sas]

Yes, the lady seemed nice, I have had DogTech out when we first got Leila and totaly dispised them, Complete Canines had some similar methods.

It's kind of a ctach 22, you want to socialise but you can't becaus eyou can't risk injuring someones dog.

Yes I would love to come out to a seminar. Turbo is a smart boy and will do well at obiedance and I had to pull him out of training club because of this issue.

[Kavik]

Did you choose to leave or did they ask you to leave?

I have never been asked to leave a club despite Zoe's dog aggression (and we did both obedience and agility for a while). I haven't gone to a class with her for a while because I found it stressful. She is good at obedience but prefers agility (the faster pace suits her better :rolleyes: )

The club I am at at the moment is really good in regards to giving people space if they need it, and don't push you to do something you don't feel comfortable with. I am going to ask and see if anyone there has a nonreactive dog to help with Zoe's aggression problem. There are a few Goldens that I'm hoping might help.

[sas]

No they were really supportive, I pulled him out myself, I didn't want people to see a Dane doing this and thinking this was typical of the breed, my female dane goes to the same club and is an absolute darling but he's much bigger than her and has this big square head and can look intimidating to people.

The club explains to people who attend the coloured collar system i.e a green knitted collar means the dog is aggressive and needs to be given space, however just after saying this, a woman let her hyper active dog in Turbo's face and he snapped and then she moved as far as she could possibly get away from us, I went red, I felt awlful but was really annoyed at her stupidity. A gentleman in my class was really nice and supportive but the cow just made me feel awlful.

My trainer was really supportive and gave me lot's of advise because Turbo also throws tissy fits....he'll throw himself on the ground like a 2 year old in the supermarket.

[Melisski]

The club explains to people who attend the coloured collar system i.e a green knitted collar means the dog is aggressive and needs to be given space,

Sas - this is a really good idea, come to think of it. Most of the people in my class are aware to stay away from Diesel (except for a select few) and having something like this (or more noticeable - Diesel's REALLY hairy) would let everyone else know he's not one of those happy go lucky, lets let our dogs come over here and get in his face sort of dogs... I might suggest it.

[Melisski]

Diesel and I had a bit of a breakthrough tonight at training - no growling of any sort, and I mean that in a good way. He got a bit stupid (looked like a skunk, tail in the air and chest puffed out and generally silly looking) when the corgi walked past, but no obvious signs of aggression and he soon forgot about it when I told him to, "leave it" and "watch" (meaning look at me).

And on the training front - he was a different dog! Perfect recall, with multiple distractions... although he did roll around on the ground after the exercise was finished since I told him he was good and rubbed his tummy... and he made some stupid noises. Oh, and he cried when I wouldn't let him play, and 'purred' - sort of like a weird cross between a growl and a moan - whenever I petted him as well. I think everyone thinks my dog is nuts or something, but he is a BC after all. But apart from that - he was just SO good, it's so nice to see him actually behave himself and act like the dog he is at home.

I didn't let him off-lead after class because I didn't want to risk ruining a really good session if he got the crankies, and I wasn't going to stand around in the cold waiting for him to have a run around so I'll just have to make up for it tomorrow. Can someone please remind me why I had to get the most active sort of dog I could think of? I should of got a greyhound :D

Edited September 6, 2005 by Melisski

[Pippi]

Can someone please remind me why I had to get the most active sort of dog I could think of?

Because BC's have beauty and brains, loyalty etc etc (I could go on and on but everyone else will get bored)

By the way, congratulations on your breakthrough and stick with it. Your BC is worth it, he is still young and will learn quickly.

[kim777]

Melisski, I too have found most Borders have selective agression!! My boy is desexed from similar lines to yours also and has the same problem.

He is now 11 and it HAS gotton better - with training. I find keeping his mind working helps and not getting him more excited by me growling etc. I just break eye contact and give him something else positive to do.

On the other hand..I'm having some problems with my 8 month old husky..but I'll start a new thread for that!

[Melisski]

Just a bit of an update...

Diesel hasn't been to training for two weeks because I got him desexed, and being a hyperactive playful BC didn't think it was wise to take him anywhere he could get more hyped up! As a result we missed assessment for this round of training, so we're repeating advanced classes as of next Tuesday.

Desexing hasn't seemed to change him generally - like everyone always says - and without the opportunity to take him to classes, I'm not sure if it is going to make a difference or not with the agression.

The last class we went to was a complete disaster, and that's why nobody on here got to hear about it! Diesel was more hyperactive than usual and simply would not settle. I tried letting him burn it off, I tried moving him away from other dogs, I tried attention exercises - and then basically gave up and tried to continue on with the lesson. Our last exercise was a four minute down stay, with me about two metres infront of him. I was standing on the end of his leash incase he decided to play (I had no inclination to think he'd do anything 'bad'). And he was doing a down stay. Not perfectly, but he wasn't taking off or anything, so all was cool at that point.

Then the problem came. A small dog (spaniel cross) at the end of our line up decided to bolt off and play wth the dog next to it... you guessed it, the bloody corgi! The corgi then took off aswell and ran past the Kelpie.. past the Springer... and right past Diesel. He got up so quickly that even with me standing on the lead (and I'm 45kgs) I completely lost him and he took off and chased the corgi, and has a go at it... meanwhile I got after him, called him, he stopped straightaway (thank god for some kind of recall, if nothing else) and I grabbed him. Not exactly the most perfect down stay but seriously, completely unexpected.

I was just soooooooo embarrassed. I was having such a hard time with him anyway that day and then to have that happen, I just felt completely useless and like I had a bad dog and everyone else's dog was perfect (nevermind the fact that he wasn't the one who originally broke his stay, lol). Obviously I don't want this to happen again but I'm honestly sick of half the people in my class who have NO idea. No matter how far away I try to stay from them, they come closer to me and Diesel and cause problems. Even when my instructor has TOLD them to stay down the other end of the line - they end up right next to me. Fair enough it's my problem dog and I'm responsible for him but for god's sake, how hard is it to keep your distance? Especially when they've been told a million times before...

On a lighter note - Diesel's now friend's with the bloody Kelpie who this whole aggression thing started with in the first place. Go figure.

[sas]

The whole de-sexing thing, a good idea, but in regards to behaviour, IF, IF you are going to see any change it won't typically be for a month after the chop, gotta give the hormones a chance to settle.

I'm not sure de-sexing has done anything for my boy.

I'm so glad that he made friends with the Kelpie! That's a great start....who likes Corgi's anyhow LOL Just kidding! Kinda lol

[Melisski]

I'm so glad that he made friends with the Kelpie! That's a great start....who likes Corgi's anyhow LOL Just kidding! Kinda lol

I know - what a weirdo ... I mean seriously, the Kelpie (who is normally very shy, reserved etc) and him were getting along like a house on fire. A whole lot of play bowing, tail wagging, let's jump on each other's head and get our owners tangled up in circles sort of playing - which was really, really nice to see. The guy who owns the Kelpie has always been sooooo good with Diesel and is sooo nice to him and has always helped me and encouraged them to get along, and we have slowly been putting them together (on lead) with me praising D. for being good and happy and him praising his dog for being well... normal :p and it seems as though it finally worked (for once).

Still, I'm going to give it a while before those two are let off together. I'd rather get tangled up in two metres of leash for the moment.

[Erny]

Given your dog's issues, would it be better if you were within a class that was not off-leash, at least until the issues could be better dealt with in a more controlled fashion?

Just a suggestion ... would your club work with you on this?

[Melisski]

The classes are not off-leash, in most circumstances. The only time the dogs are left by themselves are during stays, recalls etc. - not for general heelwork or other exercises.

Problem is, they only run classes on Tuesday and Sundays (which I can't go to, because I work), and there is only one class for each level on each day eg. one beginners, one intermediate, one advanced. We already did intermediate twice and I don't really want to put him back and get bored.

Honestly - I think instructor wise, the majority of them are fairly hopeless. Their is only one instructor there who I think really 'gets' me - and unfortunately for me, he's teaching intermediate.

[Sayreovi]

Like Sas said, his hormones have to settle and could take a few months.

Nova got done about 2 months ago now and he has definately changed, like he is still the same over the top Nova but he is more cuddly and is initiating hugs instead of me just giving them to him haha. Not sure what is happening with his dog aggression as we havent been to training much to see what happens due to school and other committments, he still hates one other dog there but i cant expect him to like every other dog.

Good luck, it will all fall together eventually haha

[Erny]

Hear you, Melisski. Compromising, but what about keeping yours on leash (use a long line in your drop stays)? At least if your dog breaks his stay (under whatever distraction) you're in a position to correct and control. Your dog won't be self-reinforced by reaching his goal (in this case, chasing after the other dog) either.

[Melisski]

Erny - waaaaaaaaay ahead of you here I've just gone out and bought a new leash... it's probably nearly 2.5metres - to use at training. I can always just loop it over itself for heelwork, and that way even if he takes off he's not going to get real far.

We have training on Tuesday, so I'll let you know how it goes. If I'm really lucky, maybe the corgis will have been moved up to Graduate and then my life will be a whole lot easier, atleast in class.

[Erny]

Erny - waaaaaaaaay ahead of you here :p I've just gone out and bought a new leash... it's probably nearly 2.5metres - to use at training.

We have training on Tuesday, so I'll let you know how it goes. If I'm really lucky, maybe the corgis will have been moved up to Graduate and then my life will be a whole lot easier, atleast in class.

Good on you, Melisski

Yes - please do tell how goes. Make your goal to strengthen those drop stays and use the reliability even in the face of the Corgi!

All the best.

[Melisski]

As much as I'd convinced myself Diesel wasn't going to have any sort of improvement - it seems 'it' (whatever that is!) seems to be working. I've been to classes for two weeks now and overally, Diesel's focus and willingness to do what I tell him to (lol - don't confuse that with a desire to please me for the hell of it) has definately improved.

Tonight, he heels perfectly (the majority of the time, anyway). He even did a textbook perfect recall, even if it wasn't too enthusiastic - he'd rather be off playing with one of the other dogs, but you know. The corgis came back today and apart from a bit of staring at them and general BC obsessiveness, he was fine. No growling, lunging, etc. etc. Now I know it's going to take a while to fully trust him, and under no circumstances is he allowed off-leash with dogs we haven't 'met' first - he's just been soooooooo much better that I've actually got enough confidence in him to leave him for down-stays and sit-stays... even if it is only about two metres away (and yes, I mean without holding onto the end of the leash).

Another funny thing I noticed today - I've been trying to teach him a 'watch' command for months. Literally. Then I noticed today, when I told him to 'leave it' (he was rolling around on the ground being a general idiot)... he got up. And looked at me. And kept doing it. So, unitentionally he's learnt that 'leave it' means the same thing as 'watch' would to every other dog - and I figure, if it's not broken, I'm not gonna fix it!