Protection Training..?

[Jintanut]

Heya

I have a staffy now aged 2 1/2yrs.

She is a lovley pet, she likes other dogs, and other people. I see this as a good thing, however...

I chose Jinta, staffy.. because I wanted a dog with a bit of muscle and the ability to protect me if needed, and also be a family pet.

I have had home robbed while i was inside, home alone, before i got Jinta. Girl living alone, I sometimes feel and am vunerable. I feel dogs are a great way to be protected, legally!!

She is extremly passive around other dogs, and wants to greet most people she meets, I have seen her react badly (barking crazy like) towards 1 person in her life so far.

Jinta is spoilt, indoors(sleeping on a suede lounge as I type) she lives a good life, and has never been treated badly, or punished never hit....yet she is timid and flinches sometimes....???

I dont know if she would "protect me" if needed, she does bark when someone embraces me in a hug..so there is something of protection or jelousy going on.

Im broke/moving house and cannot afford training atm. But I would consider it in near future.

I wonder if I should get another dog...a larger dog, to be the protector?? Another staffy, or a big Rotti???? i dont really want 2 dogs but if Jinta cant/wont protect I will seek another one who can......

I certainly am NOT seeking to get a dog and make it crazed, I just want peace of mind that my dog can and WILL guard me, and our home. I think a dog who will kill you with kisses serves no good as personal protection!!!

k9 any advise?? does it sound as though she could be trained as a protection dog?

or would it be advisable to get another dog, and try to raise it differently , or look for certain personality traits???

(btw:K9 she no longer sleeps on bed, she knows she can only sleep in HER bed now..I am making changes you advised long ago !!!)

Jinta now has 99% perfect recall, sit, stay, lie down, gimmie 5....etc she certianly isnt stupid!!

Edited November 11, 2005 by Jintanut

[stephenb]

A staffy would be one of my last choices for a dog to protect anything. Despite their looks, in general they are too people friendly.

We have a staffy and a border collie and it is the border collie that is protective. He will not let anyone into the yard until we let them in. He is quite friendly once we let any visitors in. I have heard that most of the herding dogs have similar traits.

[Steve K9Pro]

J:

I chose Jinta, staffy.. because I wanted a dog with a bit of muscle and the ability to protect me if needed, and also be a family pet.

K9: Breeding programs over many years have culled out any of this breed that would aggress against a human.

I have tested many up until about 4 years ago when I gave up, I have never seen one Staffy that could be trained in real protection.

Having said that, few know this, so simply owning a dog puts you in a less risky position.

The bigger the dog the better, but your dog would not protect you.

Given your situation, a different breed would be your best option, Rott, GSD etc...

[Jintanut]

Thanks for replys....

Jinta is way too people friendly, dog friendly, bla bla bla.

I am moving to a new house next week and I can aquire another dog, although if I raise it same way as I have Jinta, will i end up with a passive HUGE dog???

I do need a protection dog, I dont want either dog to feel isolated, I like Rotti breed or GS. Do these breeds come with "built in" protection nature???? just the size of a large dogs mouth and the bark is enough to scare me....

Im a little confused, about how the two would get along, id hate to have dog fights...

thanks so much for any help or advise.

[Herr Rottweiler]

K9: Breeding programs over many years have culled out any of this breed that would aggress against a human.

I have tested many up until about 4 years ago when I gave up, I have never seen one Staffy that could be trained in real protection.

Having said that, few know this, so simply owning a dog puts you in a less risky position.

The bigger the dog the better, but your dog would not protect you.

Given your situation, a different breed would be your best option, Rott, GSD etc...

I have only seen a handful of staffies in back in the years when we did protection training that would make suitable protection dogs, but as K9 mentioned, they are as rare as hens teeth AND they are more likely to show aggression towards other dogs and animals before a human as they are generally a submissive type of breed to people

In all the years of working with Sucurity/Law enforcement dogs I have never seen 1 natural protector where an untrained dog would protect it's owner in a dire situation. It had to be taught to. So even if you decide on getting a dog to protect you, since your in NSW go see K9 for some lessons

Do yourself a favour, get a Rottweiler

[MolassesLass]

This thread may have something of use.

I'm also interested in hearing at-home ways of encouraging territorialness of house and owner.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: no dog will naturally protect its owner, but some dogs have better drives more able to deal with it.

As far as humans are concerned, Staffys have a high threshold to defence drive, Rottys have a l;ower threshold, so generally speaking, someone kicks your door down & your staffy may not see that as enough stimulation to act, where a Rott would, generally speaking, having dogs run together will be a separet issue all together.

[poodlefan]

Jintanaut:

I do need a protection dog,

Have a good hard think about that. A trained protection dog is categorized as a 'dangerous dog' under much local legislation. That means it must always be onlead and muzzled when it leaves your home. Unless you buy a dog and train it specifically in bite work, you are not going to have the kind of 'protection' you seem to want.

Realistically, your greatest risk of attack comes from people you know. A good security system, combined with a dog that looks like it means business is probably all you need. A bit of environmental security, some routines about getting from your car to house etc and a personal alarm will see you very well covered.

The presence of any dog will deter burglars. A back to base monitored security system, complete with 'panic' alarm will get the police/security dudes to your door faster than a dog will.

[blacklabrador]

Gidday Jintanut!! Where've you BEEEEEN?

[Staranais]

A good security system, combined with a dog that looks like it means business is probably all you need.

Just want to add, even though your staff is not going to be a great guard dog, you could still encourage her to be a good (noisy) watchdog.

I imagine it would be relatively easy to teach her to get worked up and bark when she notices people arriving at the property, if you reward her every time she does so? Tresspasser won't know that she's all woof and no bite.

Just an idea.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: True PF, owning a dog that is trained is a liability, it can have its values, I have two of them & have had 5 at once.

But start with a big noise maker & if you desire to , work up from there.

These days I need to be shown genuine reason to teach any bitework to any dog, because owning a 45, 50, 60 kg plus manstopper has its pros & cons.

But off topic a lil, I do think that the popularity of these type of dogs will dramatically increase over the next 2 - 5 yeras, given our climate..

[Herr Rottweiler]

The presence of any dog will deter burglars. A back to base monitored security system, complete with 'panic' alarm will get the police/security dudes to your door faster than a dog will.

WOW, you're confident! So many people are desensitised to alarms that they would be more likely to go over and tell the burglars to shut the bloody alarm off!

We had a problem with druggies robbing houses willy nilly in my street and the only houses they didn't go near was mine and my neighbours after 1 of my dogs nailed one of the trio in my yard which the police were fine about

No excessive force, just some holes in his bum and he held him in the corner until I got up and arrested the intruder

[phatdex]

K9 Just wondering, I have been told Johnson American Bulldogs are great protection dogs, had any experience with them? Are they good?

[Staranais]

I was also wondering about Amstaffs and Pitbulls, would you say these dogs would be more suitable for protecion work than Staffords, or do they have the same temperament "drawbacks" as Staffords?

And about staffords, wouldn't they be too small for bitework anyway? Even if my dog had the right temperament for protection training, he's so small that I'd be petrified he would get seriously hurt in a confrontation.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9 Just wondering, I have been told Johnson American Bulldogs are great protection dogs, had any experience with them? Are they good?

K9: well I have seen a few that were prot trained, they werent stunning, they werent very athletic either..

They wouldnt be my choice..

Many people think you need a monster, we have some good lightweight GSDs running about 40 kilos wet, they can climb a 9 ft wall, run at 60 km / h & hit you so fast the thump can be heard 100m away.

My male in his prime ran about 45 - 50 kgs, he was a hard hitter, dislocated my shoulder when he hit the sleeve on me mucking around, but he was never as fast as my 42kg bitch..

I was also wondering about Amstaffs and Pitbulls, would you say these dogs would be more suitable for protecion work than Staffords, or do they have the same temperament "drawbacks" as Staffords?

K9: one of the best alert & bite work dogs a well known trainer in the US had was a Pit, so its possible, just not probable.

And about staffords, wouldn't they be too small for bitework anyway? Even if my dog had the right temperament for protection training, he's so small that I'd be petrified he would get seriously hurt in a confrontation.

K9: lol no... people focus on arm bites but the most effective is a leg bite, when a dog has your leg in its mouth, other than the pain of your calf muscle being taken off, your hopping on one foot, arms out, defenseless.

the body structure would be ok...

[poodlefan]

HR:

WOW, you're confident! So many people are desensitised to alarms that they would be more likely to go over and tell the burglars to shut the bloody alarm off!

Perhaps you missed my "back to base" description?

Unmonitored alarms are worthless in my opinion for the very reasons you cite. Same as car alarms - unless YOU hear it, don't expect any else to react.

As I said though, realistically the biggest threats to your personal safety come from those you know. Sobering but true.

And yep, I am fairly confident. Dealing with crime statistics is part of my job. I've also lived on my own on and off for about 30 years. I've been burgled once - in Sydney - when I wasn't home. There was no alarm system and no dog.

Edited November 11, 2005 by poodlefan

[Steve K9Pro]

PF:

Perhaps you missed my "back to base" description. Unmonitored alarms are worthless in my opinion for the very reasons you cite. Same as car alarms - unless YOU hear it, don't expect any else to react.

K9: I tend to think that the noise of the alarm panics the bad guy, no one will come, but the bad guy leaves anyway...

PF:

As I said though, realistically the biggest threats to your personal safety come from those you know. Sobering but true. frown.gif

K9: I will have to be careful, but the people that know me fear the dogs more than the people that dont? Fancy that?

[poodlefan]

K9:

K9: I will have to be careful, but the people that know me fear the dogs more than the people that dont? Fancy that?

Hey my next door neighbour (the police dog handler) said he wouldn't want to have to get past Big Ted. All that ankle bite work I've been doing appears to be paying off. I think mini poodles are under rated for security work although LAPD employs them in another role.

Have added shot of BT in pursuit mode for those unfamiliar with my dogs.

Edited November 11, 2005 by poodlefan

[Steve K9Pro]

PF:

Hey my next door neighbour (the police dog handler) said he wouldn't want to have to get past Big Ted. All that ankle bite work I've been doing appears to be paying off

K9: fofl, yes well, small dogs can give a nasty bite, break one of those rotten teeth off in your ankle, & 4 - 6 weeks later, you got a nasty infection there... lol.

PF:

I think mini poodles are under rated for security work although LAPD employs them in another role.

K9: (prey items)...

[poodlefan]

K9:

(prey items)... 

Ah no... drug detection. Reasoning was interesting. They found that larger dogs like labs and GSDs tended to tip people off that there was detection work happening at airports. They trained mini poodles becasue they could be carried around and were less conspicuous...

Of course most police dog handlers didnt' want to be seen with one until they told them that they were "special covert K9s..."

Did the job though.