English Cockers And Trial Work.....

[nell77]

Hi, i am in the process of getting my new friend to join my family, a Cocker She will hopefully be ready around early december. But i want to meet people who have knowledge in training cockers in field, agility and obedience. This is my passion. My father had GSD and i use to attend the trilas when i was very young, and really loved it. I have fallen in love with the merry dog and would like to pursue a hobby with this type of work with her. Because my aim is to one day breed with her i will also be competing in the show.....which makes me a little nervous!!! I want to keep up the beautiful type i have found with some lovely breders and breed towards maintaining that amazing standard.

But like i said my real passion is to learn the field side of things.................i want to start her off right

I AM A NOVICE................FOR SURE!!!!

[Maverick]

Cockers make the best agility dogs. My two are both in Masters and Maverick my young boy, is quite good. Very smart, quick on his feet and just loves agility

One thing you must remember is that they are gun dogs. Prone to smells and any sort of bird. Also, they suffer from selective hearing

Very easy to train, highly food motivated and just love to please you.

[nell77]

Thanks Maverick, i am assuming that the clicker training isn't necessarily the best option for the cocker being treat orientated, my father used the old system of treats and repramand???? I heard there is a good training facility in ACT, Tugernong i think(not sure how to spell it)they use clickers. I was going to go there once she turns 12 weeks!

Do you compete in field trials with the cock retrieval/not sure what you call it......

Thanks alot for your input :D

[Working_Setters]

Field, agility, obedience, showing, that's a lot to achieve with one dog, reaching the top of any one of those is a lot of work, trying to compete in all four is quite an undertaking.

It is the opinion of many people (including myself) that there is a huge split between field bred and show bred cockers. There are no field bred cockers in Oz, there are a few in NZ. If you are serious about field work, there are several kennels that produce excellent field bred springer spaniels, but AFAIK none of these dogs would be competitive in the show ring - there is quite a split b/t field and show in springers also.

I think you need to decide which event, field, agility, obedience or showing will be your #1 interest, then choose a breeder that specialises in producing this kind of dog. I know many breeders will tell you they produce dogs for show and field, in which case I'd suggest you ask them how many field/retrieving trials their dogs have won recently. (In the case of cockers I can tell you there have been none winning in either field or retrieving trials recently). Many show people do not understand the requirements for a top field dog, they think that any pup that won't quite cut it in the show ring will be an excellent field dog, b/c the pup's sire/dam just "loves to chase duck/pigeons". Frankly this is crap.

I've had a number of lengthy (and heated) conversations on this topic in the past, if you're interested to read them use the advanced search feature to find my posts, with the key word "cocker" or “spaniel”. If after you've read these threads you have additional questions, I'd be happy to help. If you decide your #1 passion is show/agility/obedience then I’m not the person to talk to, my passion is field work.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Working_Setters

[Sardog]

From my experience in training the cocker spaniel in search & rescue you really need to have a VERY reliable recall. This is a must before you start any field work so to speak.

Once they start to hunt....they just switch off and do their own thing but if you do have a realiable recall then you will have the ability to re-direct the dog on to the job at hand.

Hope this helps.

[Maverick]

I do clicker training and I find it fantastic.

My guys do mainly agility training and trialling but I plan to do a bit of obedience next year as well. I doubt I will do field trials as I don't have the time to train it.. Agility takes up too much time.

A friend of mine who posts on here is currently looking at trying to do some field work with her cockers. She tells me not alot of cockers do field and when they had an open day a couple of months ago, she was the only cocker person there.

Whereabouts are you ?

The names speak for themselves..

Kistenwales Ice Maiden ADX JDX GD

Kistenwales Disco Kid AD JDM JDO GD SD SPD ET (One of the best cockers in NSW, if not in Aus in agility)

(and they are just there ANKC titles, not including ADAA, Agility Dog Association of Aust)

Ok, I will stop boasting now

[kaywoman68]

:D

Maverick, I'll swap my 2 with your 2

If only I have more time to work with, I'd love to go back to Obedience and then start on Agility etc. A day is just too short at the moment.

[Tangwyn]

Hi nell,

I have to agree with Working_Setters and say that, unfortunately, it is a very rare Cocker that would have any remaining natural gundog ability. There used to be a young girl who trialled a Golden Cocker in Qld and did quite well but that was probably 7 years ago and I've never seen or heard of another since. If you would like to pursue obedience and agility I would definitely choose a breeder who has prioritised brains as well as beauty - after all your Cocker will be a part of your family not just a pretty face :p

As for clicker training I think its suitable for every dog. Good luck!

Tangwyn

[nell77]

Field, agility, obedience, showing, that's a lot to achieve with one dog, reaching the top of any one of those is a lot of work, trying to compete in all four is quite an undertaking.

It is the opinion of many people (including myself) that there is a huge split between field bred and show bred cockers. There are no field bred cockers in Oz, there are a few in NZ. If you are serious about field work, there are several kennels that produce excellent field bred springer spaniels, but AFAIK none of these dogs would be competitive in the show ring - there is quite a split b/t field and show in springers also.

I think you need to decide which event, field, agility, obedience or showing will be your #1 interest, then choose a breeder that specialises in producing this kind of dog. I know many breeders will tell you they produce dogs for show and field, in which case I'd suggest you ask them how many field/retrieving trials their dogs have won recently. (In the case of cockers I can tell you there have been none winning in either field or retrieving trials recently). Many show people do not understand the requirements for a top field dog, they think that any pup that won't quite cut it in the show ring will be an excellent field dog, b/c the pup's sire/dam just "loves to chase duck/pigeons". Frankly this is crap.

I've had a number of lengthy (and heated) conversations on this topic in the past, if you're interested to read them use the advanced search feature to find my posts, with the key word "cocker" or “spaniel”. If after you've read these threads you have additional questions, I'd be happy to help. If you decide your #1 passion is show/agility/obedience then I’m not the person to talk to, my passion is field work.

Thankyou heaps Working_Setters, for the input, i can see that i do need to think more clearly on want i really want to do!! I know that Field i know very little of but am desperate to learn more. To see a dog in action, on what it was traditionally bred for is a total buzz!!!To see man and his best friend workingtogether for the ultimate outcome...........ahhh i would really love to learn more. I will check out your discussions, thankyou. I have so many questions and ideas but not enough words!!! And i am afraid i would probably bore everyone!! ;)

Thanks again your input is greatly valued ;)

Edited November 7, 2006 by nell77

[nell77]

From my experience in training the cocker spaniel in search & rescue you really need to have a VERY reliable recall. This is a must before you start any field work so to speak.

Once they start to hunt....they just switch off and do their own thing but if you do have a realiable recall then you will have the ability to re-direct the dog on to the job at hand.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Sardog......i can see what you mean about recall, same thing applies to my twin boys!!!I dunno perhaps a dog will be easier to train ;) .....i love this site, everyone has such great input! ;)

[nell77]

I do clicker training and I find it fantastic.

My guys do mainly agility training and trialling but I plan to do a bit of obedience next year as well. I doubt I will do field trials as I don't have the time to train it.. Agility takes up too much time.

A friend of mine who posts on here is currently looking at trying to do some field work with her cockers. She tells me not alot of cockers do field and when they had an open day a couple of months ago, she was the only cocker person there.

Whereabouts are you ?

The names speak for themselves..

Kistenwales Ice Maiden ADX JDX GD

Kistenwales Disco Kid AD JDM JDO GD SD SPD ET (One of the best cockers in NSW, if not in Aus in agility)

(and they are just there ANKC titles, not including ADAA, Agility Dog Association of Aust)

Ok, I will stop boasting now

Hey there Maverick thanks for your post, i am out of Goulburn, where is your friend, i would love to meet up with someone that knows or is interested in field work......i have so many questions!!!

Oh and WOW ;) ;) You must be very very good handler, with exceptionally intelligent 'want to please' babes!! They say a dog is only as good as it's owner......i know i have ALOT to learn, but i am keen and dedicated and most of all i just want to have fun!!

My kids are getting older and doing their own thing and this is my thing i want to do......a bit of somethin for me

Have you got any pictures of your babes or a web site????I love seeing those cockers jumping over the jumps, their ears flappen in the wind...............aaahhhh so cute!

[poodlefan]

Nell, if you end up joining the ACT Companion Dog Club, there are a group of people from there who do field training. I have a good friend at CDC who has a Cocker who has her UD, AD, JD and also has wins at gundog working tests over the more traditional retrieving breeds - she is a very good retriever and is doing some training for non-slip. She is from straight show lines. Turning up at CDC with a Cocker will be enough to bring my friend over to chat!

One of the issues confronting Cockers is the type of country and the sheer physical effort the smaller dogs require to retrieve their birds - its hard work to cover both land and water. It would be very difficult to knock off the working line retrievers and the runs are suited to the bigger dogs.

I would agree that do compete at the top levels in obedience, agility and field work is a big ask - but if your expectations are realistic, you can still try each sport and have a lot of fun. ;) Gundog working tests would be a great place to try out your dog's retrieving skills.

Edited to add - two kennels to look at if you are interested in Cockers with some working ability would be Gunwise and Gunoush. Gunoush is a DOL member and has imported dogs that have past their working ability tests in Europe.

Edited November 7, 2006 by poodlefan

[Maverick]

I hope Vicki doesn't mind but I think a friend of her's took this photo of Maverick. Taken about 2 weeks ago at a trial where he came 4th in Open Agility.

[Maverick]

Both of my guys come from Show lines.. Maverick's father is a Grand Champion. My breeder breeds for temperament first and foremost.

One day I will start breeding for myself, Maverick being my foundation sire, and I will be concentrating on temperament and working ability.

[nell77]

Nell, if you end up joining the ACT Companion Dog Club, there are a group of people from there who do field training. I have a good friend at CDC who has a Cocker who has her UD, AD, JD and also has wins at gundog working tests over the more traditional retrieving breeds - she is a very good retriever and is doing some training for non-slip. She is from straight show lines. Turning up at CDC with a Cocker will be enough to bring my friend over to chat!

One of the issues confronting Cockers is the type of country and the sheer physical effort the smaller dogs require to retrieve their birds - its hard work to cover both land and water. It would be very difficult to knock off the working line retrievers and the runs are suited to the bigger dogs.

I would agree that do compete at the top levels in obedience, agility and field work is a big ask - but if your expectations are realistic, you can still try each sport and have a lot of fun. ;) Gundog working tests would be a great place to try out your dog's retrieving skills.

Edited to add - two kennels to look at if you are interested in Cockers with some working ability would be Gunwise and Gunoush. Gunoush is a DOL member and has imported dogs that have past their working ability tests in Europe.

Thank you Poodlefan, i will check out the deatils of the club today, i am starting to realize i have perhaps too many fingers in my cookie jar of dreams and goals!!! I would like to be able to have a go at all but see the sense in concentrating on perhaps one area to begin with..................or maby two ;)

I am looking forward to meeting new friends, i dont know many people here we have only been here for 4 years, my partner being from England and me from sunny QLD, banana bender country as it's so affectionately called

So to have my first cocker and do some field work and perhaps a little showing would be really great for me, i have no large expectations on being tops........but gee it just sounds really like a great time to have with my dog, she will be a winner in my eyes 100% percent!!

thanks heaps for the advice and knowlege of a club to go meet with some people

[nell77]

I hope Vicki doesn't mind but I think a friend of her's took this photo of Maverick. Taken about 2 weeks ago at a trial where he came 4th in Open Agility.

AAAHHHHHH..................SSSSSOOOOOOO cute......i want mine, and i want it now, it's been so long waiting, i hope i dont have to wait too much longer!!

Well done Maverick, so great to see the little champ haven such a great time!!

[nell77]

Both of my guys come from Show lines.. Maverick's father is a Grand Champion. My breeder breeds for temperament first and foremost.

One day I will start breeding for myself, Maverick being my foundation sire, and I will be concentrating on temperament and working ability.

Maverick, this is along the same draems and aspirations i have, i would love to be able to do all my work with my dog get her up there and to breed with the temp and working abilities running strong through the veins, this is nothing i am rushing into but i got soooooo much enjoyment out of my fathers hobby with the GSD that i want to have something like that in my life.

But i was under the impression ............... and please excuse me because i am a NOVICE to all this, that to breed and keep the breed true in sound body/type, you should enter the show ring to have your dog judged by judges that know and therefore assisst you to stay on track????

;)

[Erny]

But i was under the impression ... that to breed and keep the breed true in sound body/type, you should enter the show ring to have your dog judged by judges that know and therefore assist you to stay on track????

I'm not a 'showie' either, so I plead my ignorance up front here . But if the dog is to be used for its working lines, is this something that would be tested/examined for in the showring? If not, then I wouldn't understand the point of showing in the showring if the point of it all is for the dog's working attributes. Breed standards set out by the appropriate bodies only need to be read and observed, don't they?

I've got a feeling I'm tinkering with pandora's box on this one. No needling intended.

Edited November 8, 2006 by Erny

[Maverick]

I totally understand what you are getting at Erny. I have often wondered it myself as I don't have a huge desire to show.

I will show my dogs and have them examined by friends who breed and show cockers to determine if they are still of show quality. I have got a few mentors who I turn to for help. I plan to breed with the breed standard in mind but the best dogs might not be show quality and vise versa.

My breeder who is out at Bathhurst is a great mentor for me and guides me in right or wrong.

But the main thing to remember is that the majority of puppies go to pet homes and temperment is of first priority.

[nell77]

Hi, i would have to say the same thought are with me, i have met a couple of great breedres who i pestor quite regulary with questions on the above, and they too breed for temp keeping to the desired standard!!

I have heaps to learn, and as well as having my mentours who know me and i can turn too, i think this forum will also be a waelth of information...............alot of 'Food for thought'......

Maverick, may i please ask whom is your breeder, mine also is in Bathurst??? Not sure if it's something thats asked or talked about??? Still learning and finding my way on the forum!!