Arya

My dog has been away with the fairies - she has been in season and since coming out of season I would be trialling with her, do a right about turn and she would just keep going and then stand there looking at the trees or the birds or the fairies (LOL) ARGH.

Well Saturday's novice trial was the first time in a few weeks that I haven't been heeling and said to her Earth to Beans..... she actually put in probably an 85% effort - which was about an 80% improvement on the last few weeks. Then on Sunday she blew me away - worked magnificently - missed one position in heeling - and lost only 5 in total for her ring work. :rolleyes:

and then guess what - she dropped during the sit stays ARGH

Back to the drawing board.......

Congrats to you and Beans on the ringwork Ptolomy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) Wow, only losing five in total she must have been wonderful Commiserations about the stays. They are the killer, aren't they. I always have the urge to hold my breath until they are over. YUK!!!!! Better luck next time.

Sorry Arya, my instrution skills can be confusing at times...even to myself. I did mean coming to a halt as you described. I agree with your argument about cuing.

Oh, okay I just wondered if I had found someone else who stops with their left foot first LOL :rolleyes: I have tried to do it and somehow just can't. But this person is pretty well a master of footwork and basically, nothing is too hard for him I think. I, on the other hand, was born with two left feet, have trouble remembering how to walk in a straight line and am prone to bumping into things, including my dog

I agree with the others too Shelley, when they say set your dog up to win. If he doesn't get it, whatever you do work hard not to let him lose confidence. Keep him confident and then he won't be stressed and he'll learn quicker and more eagerly.

And no way is your dog silly - I always blame myself if the dog doesn't get something. It's the trainer just about every time. Unless the dog knows the excercise like the back of its paw and is testing you. But even then, if you get the training right this won't happen much ;) Let us all know how you're progressing!!!!!!!!!!!

What method are you using? Aversive or other?

First teach focus and the rest will be easy. No attention equals a long hard road in all levels of obedience.

Once you have it, get your (hungry) dog to heel along in a straight line (off lead preferably) and use your left hand to lure a moist smelly treat just above his nose and get him to follow it along for a few steps.

When you have some nice attention, slowly come to a stop on your left leg while luring upward and slightly backwards (no command needed until exercise is learnt). He should rock back to follow it into a sit........ reward for a compliance.

Do this a number of times, then only reward every second sit, etc etc over a few days until he has chained a good sequence of sits together until a large reward.

When you are at that stage, start rewarding him with his meal at meal time. This will take the direct focus off the food and will develop a drive to work with.

Dogdude, do you stop on the left leg? Just curious. I have this 'argument' with a friend. Not an argument really but he stops on left leg (should listen to him really as he is so much better) but I always stop on right leg and bring left leg up. this gives the dog 'time' to stop at my left leg if you know what I mean. But my friend says no, neater for the dog to stop if you stop with left leg first.

Just curious. Not hijacking thread LOL. These are things you need to think about when teaching your sit Shelly.

My silly kelpie hasn't got the idea.....that when I stop he has to sit without me asking.

even if I walk a few paces and stop/sit......and repeat every 5 steps ...10 times or more.

Is it just he is still too immature (10 mo) for the penny to drop......or am I missing something.

If I stop and give no command, he just stands there...looking unsure of himself.

Any tips how to achieve this would be great????

The penny WILL drop if he does it once or twice and you manage to capture it. I would add another cue if I were you - and you aren't doing this already. Take a look at your footwork. Are you stopping on the right foot, giving the dog a cue this way? Use your footwork as the cue. The other thing is, if you are already doing this, are you taking a small step at the end and not giving the dog enough time or room to get the message? Take a slightly larger right step and then bring your left foot up beside and see if he sits. If you can get that one or two and mark well, he'll get it! A final alternative solution: This is use your left elbow. So walk along with your dog in correct heel position. Then when you say sit, do the footwork thing but also move your elbow back. Your arm is bent at the elbow. Can you picture this? Repeat this lots and mark the correct behaviour, combining the word with the elbow cue. Really exaggerate the elbow cue. They will see your elbow go back and almost target your arm. Then, try with the sit and no voice again, just the elbow cue and the footwork. Then what you do is gradually fade the elbow cue out, back smaller and smaller until its not there and the dog is sitting. That is what I did to get a straight sit when I had an untidy but enthusiastic one, though the dog was automatic sitting it wasn't neat. I'll still exaggerate it in training now and again to get her to do it right and I have to watch my steps to give her enough room to sit well in the correct position. Test it out in the back yard where there's no distractions and see

Hi Everyone

My little brag for today was fantastic trial run through at the F.O.O night tonight (KCC Park). Probably was the best he has worked in a trial situation, and we are a week out from Oscars debut trial.

I was very proud of him, and I just hope we didn't waste it on a mock trial!

I just hope the weather is cool on the day as that was a major factor in tonights performance.

It was good to catch up with Arya and Glorybea too.

Yeah, great to see you too Dogdude!!!!!!!! Good on you Oscar! I bet he'll do fantastic on the day.

My girl was a bit distracted in first part of the heeling but my minor brag would be a SUPER dumbell, out like a rocket almost length of the ring and back again and this with a neoprene boot on thanks to naughty mum accidentally catching her paw in the wagon boot door (can't beat dumbell... hose... dumbell... hose ad infinitum in training LOL). FOO is always such a great night. Great place to catch up with lots of trialling friends.

GO DOGDUDE AND OSCAR FOR CUP DAY TRIAL!!!!

I totally love competing and win or lose, I find it pushes me to be a much better trainer and gives me goals to work towards and is just generally great fun. I've me a lot of great people thru it too. But in a comp my goal is not necessarily to win or even pass - though those come with the very best we can do and are added lovely bonuses if we do- but to try to achieve the very best, perfect performance (which will be a while before we get close to LOL) in that particular stressful situation that is a big test of us both. I love it. BUT... the truth is, the really 'golden' moments with me and my dog come when we are working alone and are both enjoying ourselves immensely. So I can well understand that for lots of people, the competing thing is not the deal, training and having fun is. And it is all good imho

And just as the very best top Obedience dogs can lose focus at the odd time, I don't think a police officer would want to risk any possibility at all of his dog being distracted in such a dangerous situation. Otherwise, it could literally put lives at risk and be totally irresponsible of the officer not to ask for any dogs to be removed or kept inside, just in case. The dog might be brilliant... bulletproof... but the correct procedure would surely be to clear the area of all animals as well as people, to give the dog the closest to perfect circumstances in which to do its difficult and dangerous job? I'm sure the police dog would be an excellent worker. They quickly reject those that aren't.

Thanks Squeak!!!

Gamby, sent you PM, let me know if you didn't get it as it isn't in my sent item's box AAAGH!

Just curious as to why the titre tests instead of another vaccine? Titre test would be more expensive, I'm guessing. Did you have a prob wtih the vaccine at the time?

I have a question, with Cody I've been toilet training him and when he does his business outside I make a big fuss and he just looks at me like I'm an idiot he just doesn't get excited, and I have to call him over to me to give him a pat and tell him he is a good boy, Minx comes running over and jumps about when she hears me going stupid ;) but Cody is just like....'oh yeah, whatever!' so is his toilet training sinking in? or is he just not an excited dog?

He may simply not be excited LOL. Here's what I do if it is any help. The reason I do it is I want my dog to go to the toilet before we go in the trial ring... thus not losing points for fouling the ring which my little *angel* has done before. But, it is a good way of getting your dog to go quickly. Pick a word, 'wees' or 'empty' or whatever, probably something you're already doing. As soon as he does it make a fuss as you're doing but feed a treat the minute he does! Don't give a treat to Minx, even if you feel sorry for her. Get Minx to do a sit or something first, then treat. So this way Cody will become more excited about going to the toilet.

Postscript to this... has anyone ever had their dog do a 'fake' wee just to get the treat? Mine has pulled this a couple of times when I'm trying to get her to go just to get her off my back and get the treat

Last year I had a friend take my duck dog into open in obedience and I was standing outside the ring watching. The dog was working beautifully - didn't lose a point in heeling or SFE - did a lovely DOR and then it came to the dumbbell on the flat. Zoe threw the dumbbell and sent Blaize to get it. The dog raced out picked the dumbbell up came racing back ran straight past Zoe and presented the dumbbell beautifully to me outside the ring. We laughed out loud and said this is the new open exercise called strategic pairs.

OMG, what can you do but laugh!!! Great effort for her to get to that point without going over to you. They do some crazy things, don't they

Actually, I do wonder sometimes what people think when I train my dog with a bit of hose as I truly have seen a couple of people frown at me, as if I am a cruel trainer.

Oh come on Arya - WE all know the truth of what kind of a trainer you are!!! I bet that is how you got your Novice pass and 1st isn't it!!! Belting her with a hose!!!! ;) :cry:

SHHH LP, OH NO, MY DREADFUL SECRET IS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Actually, nope, it's the old tyre lever behind the car that works every time

I can't think of a reason Tangwyn - in Agility dogs are run 'naked' coz they can't have tags on their collars for safety reasons - so running off can't be the *only* reason?!?!

Yeah, come to think of it that is true, isn't it! Perhaps nobody's ever thought to suggest removing the collars before. I think it would be good :p

Hi, I was thinking about Agility pairs and stuff the other day when out on a walk. Has something like this ever been done in Obedience? My idea would be to have, a bit like ice dancing, pairs with people. You could have it set up two ways with two types of pairs competitions. One formal - so the pair of competitors had to be competing in the same level of Obedience and they have to do a set pattern together, called by the judge as in regular Ob as is done now. Everything matching and perfect (this would be a bit like the formal dance routines in ice skating. Then there could be a separate 'freestyle pairs' type event - like ice skating then has freedance within their competition. Now I don't mean dog dancing at all, that's different of course. I mean the pair of competitors could create their own heeling pattern and other excercises within, say, a five minute or longer time frame, depending on the level of competition. Can you imagine? This would be very exciting to watch. There could then be winners of formal Ob, winners of freestyle Ob and a combined overall winner - again just as is done with human ice dancing at Olympic level I've seen on TV. It would be great! And the other thing is, at the other end of the scale not elite, imagine how much support friends could get from each other, particularly in CCD if you had CCD pairs. You could go in together. It would be fun and it would be a good way to start out. I would love to see this! I would love to go in this! (though nobody would pair up with someone whose dog loses her brains in the ring LOL). Actually, it would provide support for the dogs if their team member was in the ring doing it as well as them. Great fun all around

Imagine, matching dogs of similar size or same breed (though wouldn't have to be at all!!!) doing stuff in unison with handlers doing stuff in unison. Matching recalls, matching drop on recalls. Matching dumbells. Great!!!

Anyway, wondering if this has been done. I think there was some pairs or something at the State trial fun events in Vic this year but missed them.

What do others think about this? I am interested to know.

you know what I would like to see? Dogs in Open with no collar on at all. It has to be removed and handed to the steward with the lead.

I agree completely. In fact, unless the dog is being worked on lead I would like to see the collar removed completely at any level of obedience competition. It is a training aid which I have seen utilised in between exercises without penalty from the judge.

Can anyone provide an explanation for why the collar is left on the dog for off lead work?

I don't really know but I'm guessing it's because you have always got that slight risk of the dog nicking off out of the ring and then someone has to catch it with no collar LOL. So I reckon, just personally, that maybe it would be better for Open and above rather than Novice... though I must say I've seen UD dogs nicking off out of the ring plenty times... specially when they are being a bit clever and doing an 'extended seek back' if you know what I mean he he.

Dogdude, did not see you at FOO last night, did look but guessed you couldn't make it this week. Nope, not in Northcote on Cup Day. Our club fun day on the 10th so next one will be double at Southern for us!

I'll be there :rolleyes: So I can cheer you on when i'm not shaking in my boots worrying about our debut back into the ring!!!

Hey that's great, we can cheer each other on!!! Hope we are in the same ring and get to cheer each other on like we did at Berwick. I know for sure Leo will be a star

Actually, I do wonder sometimes what people think when I train my dog with a bit of hose as I truly have seen a couple of people frown at me, as if I am a cruel trainer. Do they think I beat her with her prey item??? If I did, do they think she'd leap up to grab it Do they think I'm encouraging viciousness by letting her tug, pull and stand up on my chest with it? It's the most positive form of training I've seen :rolleyes: But yep, I guess everyone has different ideas and what works for them works for them.

Oh, so sorry to hear this Kowai!!! Yep, it's awful when something gets cancelled and curse the blasted weather!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think it got to 34 degrees? I know the Ob trial I was at must have come very close indeed to being cancelled and a lot of dogs had real trouble in the heat. Can you believe, so hot already? And set to be 31 this coming weekend too. Not a good prospect for the summer :rolleyes: Sorry again, I can really sympathise!

Hey everyone, thank you SO SO much for the congrats and all the bits of advice that have helped and supported us. I'm sure we'll have many times when we muck up in the ring again but last Sunday was a big big deal for us and hopefully the start of climbing back up the ladder to having a happy dog heeling in the ring, same as she does everywhere else :rolleyes:

How good did I feel? Well lucky the sunnies were on as there were a few tears in the eyes there LOL.

Dogdude, did not see you at FOO last night, did look but guessed you couldn't make it this week. Nope, not in Northcote on Cup Day. Our club fun day on the 10th so next one will be double at Southern for us!

Thanks again everyone, it was just so exciting it was a bit hard to believe. Old Tess had a ball on the day too in spite of the heat and really, that's the best win of all

Frankston Dog Obedience Club in Mclelland Drive has great Agility and Flyball teams too. Very active and good members. Good club for Obedience too. Relaxed and very friendly. They train Saturdays, I think Flyball starts around 11am from memory (don't do flyball myself so can't remember for sure).

The other club, if you are in Dandenong Ranges area is Croydon Obedience Dog Club. A super club with same disciplines as Frankston. I think both clubs dabble a bit in doggy dancing and stuff too. I go Frankston but only do Ob and can't be sure what goes on with other stuff, being out in the ring most of the time LOL. But both clubs have excellent instructors, great members, good reps and both I know are relaxed, happy places to train which is always my top priority! I have heard LOTS of good things about Berwick too BTW.

Rom, Ptolomy suggested games like running to the start post and clicking and treating, or use your marker word and treat. Ptolomy said she puts a start post in the ground, then lets her dogs out of the car and they both run to the start post and she clicks and treats. I can vouch for this great idea of hers. I started it last week and it really worked to help my girl to sit more comfortably at the start post at last weekend's trial, even though we'd only been doing it for short time. What I did was set a post up in the back yard - place my dog was happy with. Then we would get to the middle of the yard and race to the post into the heel position. At this point Ptolomy also said she asks for a touch at the start post so that's what I did, then marker word and food reward. It was great fun. I said 'up to the post' and ran. It was lots of fun for the dog, I can tell you! Ptolomy also said to have lots of treats and play attention games at the post. So reward for focus at the post. Anything good to do with the post, I reckon. Just make a great big fun deal out of the post. My dog now thinks the post's her best friend. For me, it enabled me to get the dog in the ring before she switched off in fear. This was a great help ;) THANKS PTOLOMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What kind of nerve does she have in everyday life- outside of Obedience?

Hi, I saw you at Sunday's trial over at Knox, I'm sure! I meant to catch up with you and ask how your fantastic pug went How did you go? My girl's nerve is not brilliant but she is an interesting mix of soft and hard. Strange temperament and not right. Initially some fear aggression. But brilliant with people, all machines, fireworks, tough as nails some things and then just cracks. But in the ring, each excercise I've had to find a trick for to get her to work happily and well. The silence and formality of it gets to her. It's not me, I'm not nervous at all. In training we work in the ring all the time but she is so cluey she can pick just be seeing the judge begin to call the heeling pattern for someone else in the ring. I am sure I'm now on the right track but need to do more research.

I would say now, at 3 1/2, my dog has become with work an ideal dog in everyday life But there is this temperament issue. Goes into prey drive really easily almost anywhere. Great prey drive, great motivation to work, great working dog in many respects. But does have these weird crack-ups and sort of phobias we have to get over. This has been a bad one.

Hi all!!! Well, am in the middle of doing some research into fearful behaviours to help my girl in the ring. Think I've hit upon something and wondering others' opinions on 'Fear Drive'. Well, I always thought fear was divided into fight or flight and then, there is a third when neither can be done. The old rabbit frozen in the spotlight behaviour. I am working on a theory that a dog when in a fearful situation where they cannot or know they should not run away such as in the ring, might perform this behaviour, thus freezing and forgetting their own name etc. This happens to my girl all the time. Goes from intelligent to brains flying out ears LOL.

Now as K9 has taught us, you can't be in prey drive and fearful at the same time. BUT, what about if 'flight drive' for want of a better phrase could be stimulated by the same actions that stimulate predatory drive. EG hand and foot movement - fast movement. Reason for this is after a year of struggling thru sixteen trials I had a breakthrough on the weekend. Managed to get through the heeling workout in the ring that my dog has consistently failed on to the point where I believe she is now in a state of learned helplessness about it - managed to get thru the workout by doing it basically in continuous slow pace (should have seen our SLOW pace whne the judge asked for it, it was almost a stop! Judge must have thought we were at a funeral!). When returned to more normal pace for the fast pacethe dog almost lost it again. The pace is the trigger. Seems to be the trigger for 'flight drive' and that is the end of the exercise for us as she freezes, being unable to flee. In training where she feels safe we walk at a very brisk pace normally. Brisker than most. Puts her in prey drive.

Do others understand what I am on about? (Sounds crazy, I know!!!)

So - I am now trying to do some further research into this. Does anyone have any info or experience in this and if so, can you please point me in the right direction? I feel I am definitely now on an up and up path with my dog.

Incidentally (brag), we got full marks for stand for exam, full marks for recall and would have gone great in the stays but... my girl got an attack of the itches in the sit stay after sitting on some teeny tiny ants before we went in the ring AAAAGH!!! Would have been respectable 87 out of 100.

But the problem solving in the heeling is what I am really concerned about at the moment. Don't have trouble with other excercises as I've found little tricks to fix them.

Any thoughts anyone?

AND by the way, huge thanks to Ptolomy for those start post games suggestions as they definitely helped as well

My boy is very food motivated and has a high prey drive. Another girl Shep at training was not the least bit interested in food and at the beginners level the club was very focused on using food - she was also not that interested in toys either, but this would be the next option.

Try getting a 'special' toy that the dog places a high value on interacting with, I am now using a special tinkle ball (bell ball) for my dog because he can hear when the ball is out and knows exactly what he is going to get when he finishes whatever routine I've cooked up for him. This toy only comes out for training and once he's had his play with it goes back in the reward bag, so he doesn't get free reign with it.

The down side to using the ball as opposed to a tug toy (which he also has) is that the ball is thrown for his reward so he's not interacting with me as he would with a tug toy. I stopped using the tug toy because the one I have is too big and cumbersome to practice heelwork and agility with

Sounds a lot like my dog Vehs I used to use tennis balls to great effect but the throwing away is a problem. Try this - I got 100% (no exaggeration!!!) by doing this. A friend told me about it and it works better, much better than anything else, tug toy even. A thirty to forty centimetre-long piece of hose. Can use radiator hose but I use heavy duty 14mm washing machine hose - the wider stuff, it comes in two diameters. Condition the dog onto the hose by whipping it around your body and spinning around as you do it. then fold it up under your forearm as you heel when they want it and watch the difference. Then graduate to pushing it up your sleeve when you heel, then either sleeve, then your front of your tshirt, then stick in belt behind your back. It is way better than a tug toy. To reward, you can throw it and I do sometimes, just very short distance like customs do with their dummy to reward their labs (dummy is rolled up towel). Then get the dog back to you and really tug. Him in middle, you hands both sides of the hose. Pull him up onto your chest as reward - big deal being up high with the Alpha. Stroke his head with one hand to rev him up as he's tugging. GENTLY, put the knee on his chest and spin him round. My dog jumps for joy at that part, she goes hyper!!! Safer than a tennis ball, better than a jingle ball as bond is stronger with dog as you are not throwing the reward far away from you. The dog will totally love the interaction totally. Get the hose the right strength though as it gets pretty rough. And really the only thing you must be careful of is NEVER to accidentally hit the dog with the hose when throwing him in drive by flicking it around. I hit myself on the knee once and now have a scar. You'd be surprised how much force behind flicking the hose. But give it a go. If you've been able to swap, condition from tug toy to ball, try hose. Heaps heaps better for training, especially heel. :D

Wow Miccar, love the pic of your dog!!!!!!!! I agree, with my GSD she will work for treats no problem but when she works in drive, for a tug on her piece of hose, it's like looking at a different dog. Treats great, tug in prey drive EXCITING!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)