NoodleNut

Let me explain about the 'auto pilot' problem ... Noodle is nearly 22 weeks and I have just found this part of DOL .... "smart dog" I think .. "why not try out a few of the tricks .. good mental stimulation" .. Noodle sits and drops (still working on the 'with distraction') since 13 weeks at puppy school. On Sunday night I taught her to 'roll over' following the instructions on this site .. Monday night she has it down pat. But ............................ Tonight she sits, drops and rolls over the minute she sees I have a treat .. no verbal instruction or hand signals from me at all .. hilarious I must say .. looks up at me (eyes covered by her coat) as if to say 'There you go mum .. where is my reward?'. I have decided not to treat this behaviour, only when I have given the signals/verbal command for each thing I want her to do .. is this the right thing to do? .. she obviously wants to please but is on auto pilot. Secondly I started working on a new one tonight .. the 'shake hands' ... she was not puttin gup her paw .. I even held her paw up and put the tiniest piece of cheese on top of her paw as a reward .. still she did not initiate it .. ahhh .. penny dropped... lino floor slippery ... she can't stay upright enougha nd slides into a drop if the paw is too far off the ground ... derr! How dumb can I be! Took her into the lounge and we had the perfect shake hands 5 times in a row! Will continue to work on this the next few nights. Noodle seems to really enjoy the work and I am amazed at how quickly she is picking it up. Too young to be teaching these tricks? We don't start obedience until this weekend so thought this would be a good diversion and fun.

Ditto to many of these points. Our pup is coming up to 22 weeks. I can say she is now 'toilet trained (touch wood) .. no wee in the house for 4 weeks... yipeee! Has only ever pooed in the house once at 8 weeks. I am sure she will have an accident at some point .. will no doubt be my fault in not seeing the signs though. The past 3 months (got Noodle at 8 weeks too) have been exhausting (at one point I was getting up 3 times a night ... 11pm, 2am and 4am and then 6am to toilet her .. I kids you not! It was crazy and I think my fatigue would only have been surpassed by breastfeeding my two kids!! At least toileting Noodle didn't last twelve months!!) but worth the effort. We had her penned inside for the first 3 - 4 weeks .. in and out on a regular basis for toileting .... then penned outside for one week on and off during the day to get used to her new surroundings outside. Now she is only crated at night and outside or inside (when we are home she is in) on and off during the day. Plenty of rotated toys. Meal sonly fed in treat balls .. make her work for her dinner. Puppy school for 4 weeks and starting obedience this weekend. Lots of visits out and about (safely of course .. the mental stimulation of just going out in the car can be enough to subdue a pup and in addition good socialisation and getting to 'show off' our people magnet (people are ususally suckers for pups so the pup gets rewarded for four paws on the ground .......gets you a pat from people). Noodle is still not free to roam the house. She is sitting on the kitchen floor as I type this (off leash) .. the computer is in the kitchen and this is where all of us spend 85% of our time. She only comes off inside when I do the training sessions inside with her and late at night when the kids are in bed and the house is quiet. Outside she has full reign of the backyard. In the morning when she is inside (after she has been outside from 6 - 7am) and the kids get up (and she is hyper and excited to see them) she is on a long lead attached to the kitchen drawers ... kids take one step back when she tries to jump and they are out of range. No nipping .. again out of range .. same with my husband and I. Lots of reinforcing back turned, arms crowwed and looking at ceiling .. kids have it down pat, admittedly older than your daughter. Four pwas on teh ground gets you a pat. Our six year old was fearful of Noodle's mouthing but is now very confident and Noodle only occassionally tries to mouth .. usually if she is very excited or losing teeth ( the situation for the past 2 weeks). I would definately recommend a pup being restricted inside until they learn good manners (not jumping or mouthing or nipping) and toileting is 100% successful. We have had no damages either inside or outside with Noodle chewing things she shouldn't. As an aside a friend of ours had $3000 worth of damages in the first month that they had their lab pup at home ... I kid you not .. yes, you counted the zeros correctly..... chewed up a Blackberry her husband had for work and then chewed up his designer glasses ... great when he was giving a presentation the next day to 350 people! That pup was getting very close to being re-homed LOL (tongue in cheek .. they knew it was their fault not their pups) Our pup only has access to her rotated toys of which there are many. Lots of home training .. doggy push ups now (our ten year old son does this with her .. sit, reward, drop reward .. up down up down ... she loves it and the tiny bits of cheese she gets). The past two nights I have been surfing the tricks area of DOL and following the instructions taught Noodle to sit, drop and roll over on command (with hand signals and reward) and tonight she has got the idea of 'shake hands (when I finally figured out that she was not putting her paw up because the floor is slippery and she couldn't stop slipping into a drop position ... she did it perfectly 5 times in a row when we got on the carpet ... silly me!!) This puppy training is incredibly hard work but as others have said it has dividends of having a social dog that everyone loves and is a part of the family. keep looking around the DOL site .. there are plenty of ideas that will assist you.

Hi Flip. Funny I haven't been on DOL for a long time and the first question I see is for me. I do herding introduction days and training. You can contact me through the Fourpaws website fourpawsk9training.com.au. We actually have spaces left for this Saturday, May 4th, if you are interested & the weather holds out. You can also do a 2 day weekend with Working Dog Education - google Beloka Kelpies - in Welshpool. Talk to you soon I hope. David. Hi David, At what age do you suggest starting herding training? I had a look at the website but couldn't find anything .... after 1 or 2 years of age?

Our pup is a long haired breed (Hungarian Puli) .. used to have a husky .. ditto about the snow LOL ... anyway back to the Puli .. I do admit I get concerned about the cold .. she is crated at night but outside during the day when we are out or inside when we are home. We came home two weeks ago to an absolutely drenched pup!! Silly mutt had stayed in the rain!! Her dog house is big enough for three cattle dogs but she obviously didn't see a need ... (see photo below!). Whenever I put a towel to sleep on in the kennel she drags it out into the rain! I have resorted to putting a carpet mat (can be bought very cheaply ..between $2 - $10 from nearly all carpet places .. some people use them as mats for their cars .. come in different sizes) in the kennel. This has worked well as an insulator and also she can't drag it out as it is too stiff. I suggested this on one of the other threads on DOL ... perhaps even screwing the carpet squares on to the floor (on MDF someone else suggested), walls and roof .. depends on your dog house of course. Anyway .. it's an idea.

What sort of weight are the leads (and snap hook)? Suitable for a 5 month, 5-6kg, 14" Puli? Which ones do you get the coated or uncoated ones?

Hi! What about leaving the crate in the kitchen/family room/dining room and purchasing a pen to go around the crate? We did this with Noodle when she was that young and it worked fine. Noodle is now 5 mths and outside during the day if we are at work/out and only in the crate in the evening in the kitchen/lounge area like you. A pen can be useful if you need to introduce your pup to outside slowly and if you need to 'pen' the washing, need to pen the pup if you have workmen at the house, go camping while pup is still ittle.

The other big problem with chain leads is if you are holding the lead by the chain (such as when you want the lead short and the dog close to you) and the dog takes off they can do some serious damage to your hands. that is why she needs the half leather half chain lead when walking. Erny I know what you are saying...the dog needs to break the habit, with a chain lead it will very quickly. A good quality lead will not snap, we use them for dogs who are strong large breeds which have learned to grab the lead and tear it in a flash ...at the shelter... Never had a stuck tooth, they give up very quickly. Still it is just a suggestion which I know works without any fuss or nasty tastes which the dog may react to. All good points Rusky, Erny and Janba. Ahh ... the stuck tooth .... Noodle is only 21 weeks so teeth is an issue ..... Noodle lost another top tooth this morning .. one pull on the lead and it was out (6 year old is taking it for show and tell this week!) This past week Noodle has been much better but started again the past 24 hours ... lost a tooth last night chewing on a hide and another this morning with one pull on the lead .. poor thing .. this teething business is a pain. I am sure this is not helpign the lead situation .. seems to be a phase rather than an obsession or a behaviour caused by purely by excitement. Lets face it the lead fabric must feel nice on the teeth and give some relief of sorts. I think a frozen chicken neck might be for breakfast this morning ... the coolness of it usually settles her. At this stage I am hunting around for perhaps a Lupine lead and use a harness (Lupine again or stick to my Sporn one under the armpits?) so she can't get to the lead as it comes off the back. I agree the chain is not going to be great for those teeth of hers .. I don't want to make teething any more unpleasant than it already is for her. She is lying on the floor at my feet with some softer fabric toys (stronger ones though) to gnaw on. So, thoughts on the harness (not for control reasons .. she is not bad actually unless we are on the 'home straight' ) just to get the lead placement further down her back so it is out of eyeshot (she is a Puli so the hair is already over the eyes ... LOL) and not noticed as much?

Do you use the nylon or teh polycoated in these?

Thank you so much for all of your suggestions .. I will follow up each one. Never thought of the chain lead ... derr seems pretty obvious really!! Have steered away from anything chain .. due to a Puli's coat ... however, I had discounted a chain lead ... good point about it might get her through this stage (cheap option and will discourage her too). Thanks Dol's!!

Hi All, Need some suggestions for a STRONG lead please. We have a 5 month old Puli (working/herding breed) ... yes, she will be going to obedience (next week it starts), yes, we have been to puppy school ... can sit, drop, wait for food, fetch and 'give' and currently working on 'roll over' ... started last night and she nearly has it. I ahve been reading the 'trick' pages and thought this might wear her out mentally when is is pouring with rain outside. Our son did the 'push ups' exercise with her last night with great success. Also lots of socialisation .. she is very social with people and other dogs and not too frightened of much .. except cats ... she is frightened of them for whatever reason (nice change compared to the reaction our husky used to have .... let's not go there!! ) Anyway, Noodle has just got her adult top teeth in the past week and even just one pull on the lead and it starts to tear ... grrr ... it is a Black Dog one too which I love!. We are trying to get her out of mouthing the lead and on the whole she is great (lots of toys and things to chew) .. but still a pup and very occassionally goes for the lead. I am so peeved as I love the Black Dog stuff .. very soft on the hands and light. So, any suggestions on a strong lead I could get that is not HUGE (Noodle is only about 5/6kg at the moment). I do have a SPORN lead (has two handles which is fabulous and very strong) but I want a lead which is only one handle and the same sort of strength. I also have another Black Dog lead (11m tracking) that I use in the park now for fetch games (she never mouthes this) and also teaching recall as well as playing with another pup we might find in our travels ... gives a bit more freedom and Noodle is FAST, can spin on a 5c piece so I am not keen for her to be off lead). Oh yes, I have started to use a SPORN harness on her (under the armpits not the one around the muzzle) when I go for a walk as she never touches the lead as it is out of sight and coming from the back of the neck rather than under the neck. Any other harness that would be of benefit/recommended? She walks very well on the lead on the whole and is starting to sit & drop on command when I ask her to. Also 'leave' I look forward to your advice.

Hi congratulations on your new pup!! You may want to check out another thread on 'Puppy nipping' there might be a few ideas for you there .. also look up 'mouthing' too as there are a few thread on this too. We have our pup on a lead in the kitchen when we can't give her 100% attention - this gives the kids total control over her too .. one step back and they are out of range for the needle like teeth. Puppy is learning that mouth shut gets you attention .. otherwise the kids take one step back and look up to the ceiling and cross their arms .. wait for her to lie down or sit and then try again .. if she continues they walk off much to our pups annoyance. We don't play excited games with our pup (unless it is playing fetch outside), no tug of war at all with us (only on her own with an Aussie dog toy) I have read this is not good and will encourage dominance .. not at all good in your situation with a young child. As your two year old wont be able to assert herself like a 6 year old or 10 year old (as in our case) .. it might be worth a try at ensuring the pup is pretty exhausted from outside play, short walks etc before exposing the pup to your daughter .. more likely to be calmer and more pleasant interaction. Have plenty of toys ... I mean HEAPS of toys ... we must have about 25-30 toys we rotate each day for our pup to chew on .. try lots of chew bars, hide your pups food in Kongs, rubber balll type treat balls, freeze your pups meal, hide your pups food around the yard, frozen chicken necks to chew on.... every time pup tries to mouth give it a toy instead. The puppy stage is exhausting but worth the effort if you want a full grown dog with manners, respect and a great member of the family. Time out - again when ours is on the lead int eh kitchen we just walk off and ignore her. ANother idea someone else told me (a dog trainer) suggested putting her in teh toilet (remove the toilet mat, toilte paper .. unless you want to make the loo look like winter in the alps!! , toilet brush and shut the lid .. put carboard from old boxes on the walls and back of the door so your door and plaster doesn't get scratched and put her in there for time out until she is quiet. We haven't tried this .. the lead works well for us. Got any piccies to share?? Love puppy pics of any breed ...

The best things we found were - a plastic drink bottle, 1L milk bottle, dried out thoroughly, filled with some dry food. Nice and noisy, and quite challenging to try and get into. she thought she was pretty cool when she figured out how to unscrew the lids... loads of bones & squeaky toys & pigs ears CWM this is exactly what I did this morning (but did not add the treats) ... we take the lids off the milk containers and the 'red ring that goes around the top as I am concerned she will be able to chew it off ... trying to avoid the vet at all costs Also bought her a new 'soft toy' today ... bought her a 'Bamboo play Combat squeaker dog toy X extreme" .. dunno where the squeak is .. looks like a bright red little man .. very tough ... she was starting to chew the appendages (ears, nose, tails off the sheep and the puppy and an antenae off her little mosquito!!) off her favorite soft toys .. will put them away until she stops the teathing. Also bought a Masterpet brand 'Fresh Breath' large bone to chew on .. Mint infused natural rubber for medium and large dogs ... she has already had a chew . Also some more biscuits, (Science Diet Treats ... puppy medium bone .. chicken) and two dog treats (beef hide 4-5" from Petstock) and some Premium bacon strips also from Petstock (they look pretty hard and perfect for chewing) .... should keep her busy for awhile .. she is lying on the floor snoozing surrounded by her new toy and a chew treat ,.... all chewed out .. good time for the kids to spend time patting her

Have to agree Persephone on the mouthing. We have two children 10 and 6 and our pup is not allowed to use her mouth .. no mouth = play, mouth = one lonely pup, same goes for four paws on the floor. I am very aware as we also have young nephews and nieces and I don't want them to have a bad experience with Noodle .. hence no tug of war with us only the Aussie dog toy. We also learnt a valuble lesson from the sibe that we had well prior to kids .. he was gorgeous but jumped .. not good for the grandmother her adored him but she was 86! Also not good to have a mouther with an elderly person with paper thin skin. The Aussie Dog tug toy hangs from the carport and has a rattle ball on it that can be filled with dry foor .. the more 'violent' they tug on it the more treats come popping out. Our pup loves to play with it and it springs back and forth on the bungee. We also play lots of fetch which she loves (depends on your dog though .. our sibe would never fetch anything ... just run ... and run and run ... LOL ) To be honest the Kongs haven't really worked for us .. too hard for our pup to get into .. hence using different treat balls .. need to go hunting through different pet stores.

I can't speak highly enough of the Aussie dog toy (have it hanging on our carport) we have .. our 5 month old Puli pup LOVES it!! lots of things to chew (legitimate) and rotate the toys .. you may need a basket full but better than your skin or your possessions I reckon .. worth the investment. We put out about 4 each day .. so 4 x 4 sets ... $$$ but it ain't the couch, chair, kids toys or personal possessions which are worth much more .. as well as the stress and grief Our pup turned 5 months on Sat and a week ago she lost about 4 or 5 of her top teeth and within the space of 24 hours had 'knobs' of her adult teeth showin g... needless to say the mouthing went up and so I countered that with lots of chew toys, the Aussie Dog for her to play tug of war with (we don't play this game with her) also frozen chicken necks for the teeth/gums. different biscuits/chew bones, greenie bones etc ..I let her choose one at night to gnaw on) and putting her breakfast in a treat ball and freexing it overnight .. gives her something mentally stimulating to do as well as keep her mouth occupied trying to get her brekkie. Our Puli also likes a cold carrot .. I kid you not! Try snapping a carrot in half and see what your dog does .. Noodle loves chewing on it .. makes a hell of a mess of the kitchen floor but .. again ... better the carrot than us I reckon. Our breeder used to give her Puli carrot too ... perhaps your pup would chew on them too?

NoodleNut - maybe Noodle is calming herself so she doesn't get too excited when watching those other dogs! My pup did this during puppy classes - it was like "I must not get excited, I must not get excited"! Check out some books on dog calming signals, it's interesting reading if nothing else! If I hid treats in the backyard at the moment they would be sodden messes within minutes it's so wet here!! Go away rain! Yes, perhaps she was calming herself ... I was SOOO proud of her today when she played with the Boxer .. she backed off a couple of times and sat down and then let the Boxer jump all over her .. then she did the same to the Boxer (good turn taking .. no growling from either of them, no baring of teeth and the Boxer was wagging her tail and initiating play which was great to see. Can't see Noodle's tail as it is curled up!! The boxer was able to be off lead even though she is younger but Noodle is so fast on her feet she could spin on a 5c piece!! Not game to let her off yet. On the treats point .. try jamming your pups food into a large treat ball (I have used a football shaped treat ball with larger holes .. it is bright orange - she could not get it out of a Kong) and then freezing it. I put a combination of raw chicken meat (usually fatty bits off the chicken fillet, some rice and her rehydratable Advance dry food .. sometimes even a chicken neck in the middle). If you fill it with some water (while in the bag) and freeze it your pup will have to work hard to get her breakfast .. nothing like a bit of mental stimulation to wear her out as well as being rewarded with the food. Perhaps better than leaving food around that will go mooshy in the rain (where the heck are you .. Melbourne is dry!) The other thought is jamming a long thin chew down the middle of a Kong, putting in bits of dried liver in the middle so it falls out more easily and putting a large dollop of cream cheese around the ends and put that in pups dog house. I also have a plastic box full of all sorts of chew things (not toys) like biscuits, raw hide/pig chew, greenie bones etc. I take out two and let Noodle decide which she wants to chew on. She is sitting on the kitchen floor chewing hard on a bone 'thingo' which was too hard for her 3 weeks ago but now seems to be perfect. I have to watch her soft toys now as I have noticed her chewing ears/noses/and tails off them!! Lots of appropriate stuff to chew on has certainly curtailed her nipping.

The only thing we are now having issues with is her deciding its more fun to not "come" on command. Working on that now! I had to laugh! Noodle turned 20 weeks yesterday (also a working dog - Hungarian Puli) and she has been deciding it is more fun not to come .. I just turn on my heels and come inside .. end of play .. no chasing etc. Backfires on her a bit We also hide treats around the back yard, use the Aussie Dog toy when I go to work, fill her treat ball with her breakfast and freeze it .. keeps her busy for quite while in the mornings We have noticed the nipping has definately calmed down although the mouthing was not great last weekend ... reason ... she lost about 6 of her top teeth in one go (who knows where they went??), within 24 hours she went from gummy to having 'nubs' of teeth showing through. On inspection this morning the same thing is happening with the bottom set .. poor thing ... giving her LOTS to chew on!! Meant to have the first obedience lesson this mornin g.. turned up all enthusiastic to find they had trials on this morning and the classes had been cancelled ... no matter .. no to be outdone we happened to find a couple with a 14 week old boxer so convinced them perhaps the dogs could play .. the boxer hadn't been socialised at all .. they had a WONDERFUL time after the boxer decided that Noodle was actually fun to play with. I noticed Noodle going into the drop (laying completely prostrate on the gound) looking at teh other dog this morning ... seems she has a real 'herding' instinct ... where are those damn sheep!!

Have fun!! You will have a ball! We love our pup to bits!! Definately worth all the hard work .. what you put in is what you get out so they say I don't know if you are in the Eastern 'burbs of Melbourne but I got a couple of toys for out pup .. REDUCED from $15 - $17 down to $4.99 at the Pets Direct shop in Cantebury Road in Kilsyth...definately a saving and good quality toys that I bought too.

Stainless steel bowls ... the ones that are dropped into the black plastic (that are quite heavy and stay on the floor) are good as you can take the SS bit out and wash it without the whole bowl ... we wash ours in the dishwasher too ... dries quickley because it is just the insert not the wole bowl .. they are a bit more expensive though but a good investment. Try one of the $2 ty shops for the little plastic type bed ... we got one for $8 and the biggest size was only $14 from memory ... saves a bit. Rather than rugs we use old towels .. our breeder even suggested heading to a second hand shop for either old towels or blankets .. coming into winter the towels will dry quicker .. blankets are a bit of a pain. Aussie Dog ball perhaps to add to the list (these are a bit expensive) but our pup loves it!! Teaches pup to have fun on their own too outside without detroying the garden 3 or four sets of toys (3 or 4 in each group) .. to rotate so pup does not get bored and look for 'other things' to do ... leave that to your immagination. Try to get toys classed ... play, seek and find (to look for their meal .,.. like a treat ball but filled with their lunch .. our pup couldn't cope with the Kongs at first so we used a football shaped toy with lots of holes in it .. stuffed that her food and froze it), chewing toys of different materials .. rope, rubber, the 'Petstages' toys I have found good with ours ... little like baby toys, bright coloured but fabric and hard bits to chew on) etc Shampoo and conditioner LOTS and LOTS of paper towel to clean up messes Poo bags and more poo bags .. perhaps the 100% biodegradable ones so you can put them in your green rubbish. Really decent pair of scissors (I spent a bit on ours as our pup has a thick coat) ... to cut the hair on the pads of their feet ... good to get them used to them from the start ... no point waiting until they are full grown. Brush? Lots of rice and some chicken fillet in the freezer incase pup has an upset tummy when you first get her - we fed what the breeder fed but she got an upset tummy probably just from being in different surrounding. Collar and soft lead Treat bag - good to start teaching sit for food, going outside before you get to puppy school.

Hi Affie, I am with you Affie ... it is exhausting!! I have to agree with Persephone though .. you have to just persist ..... perhaps do what we did and crate your pup and then go out ... don't have to listen to the commotion .. I know it is frustrating and upsetting. We would take Noodle for a big walk or lots of exercise .. this also wore her out so in the end she would sleep. Noodle was exactly as you described biting at the metals bars on the crate and panting lots .. very upset. Very hard to ignore I know ... it was only a few weeks back that we had this same thing happening. Yes, it is tiring .. I felt like I had a newborn baby again because my other half would often sleep through everything .. grrr..... just me up and down all night toiletting and getting stressed when we shut the door on the crate. As Persephone said .. three hours of crying could increase to more if you go to your pup as they know they will eventually get attention from you. Going out is much easier on the emotions .. YOURS ....... you come home feeling much calmer and usually pup is stuffed from al the yelling but no reply that ours went to sleep much quicker (still yelled for 30 minutes but it was better than 2 hours!) Try a Friday night and go shopping/out to dinner/something for 2 hours and leave pup with something to chew (treat ball with their dinner, frozen chicken neck to make the ordeal a little more pleasant perhaps?) How old is your new pup? Let us know how you are going and if you come up with any new ideas you could share with other members with new pups

yay!! No more pooping on the rugs Lostboy!!!

Hi Pitty Lover We were new to the crate training too so our method perhaps is not that which is used by all .. I am sure other members will contribute their perspectives. We put a pen (large puppy pen that we bought) in the kitchen at one end of the room (we spend a lot of time in the kitchen ... eating, kids using the table for drawing and at the moment the computer is in teh kitchen and it is in teh middle of the house so where we are. The crate was put in the penned area witht he door jammed open so our pup could freely move in and out. We put the bedding in the crate only. We also put an absorbant matt on the floor (the floor is lino and easy to clean ... will be ripped up and tiled in a couple of months so I wasn't fussed) for puppy to go on IF I couldn't get her out in time usually more problems overnight ... I could hear Noodle in the night wake up and move (must be becasue I fed both our children even over night up to twelve months so I don't think I sleep as heavily anymore!! My husband on the other hand sleeps like a log!!) usually at around 2am and 4am... I would take her out at 11pm too before I went to bed. I would still take her out to toilet even if she had made a puddle or done a poo in the penned area ... never scolded her .. just picked her up and took her outside on the lawn where I wanted her to go...cleaned up and went back to bed. Seemed like a looonnnng few weeks of doing this but it has been worth it. It felt just like having a baby but the time of getting up and down was much shorter than a newborn!! The first few nights she was not happy and complained but I ignored her and she got the idea that perhaps it was sleep time. Lieka baby she would often wake at 4am and after I had toileted her she would be hyped up and think it was play time!!! I on the other hand looked totally stuffed!! My trick was to give her a frozen chicken neck .. takes longer to eat and was cool on her little gums which would keep her quiet until a more reasonable time ....LOL Thank goodness we got her in summer - it was one of the reasons I wanted to get our pup in January (we researched from March last year and decided on a Puli in about June after we had seen a breeder and 3mth old, 9mth old and full grown dogs to get a really good idea of the breed and then spent hours with the breeder ever couple of months learnign about the temperament of the breed and the coat/grooming etc) as more time to 'recover' from toileting, more time with her at home to get her used to and bond with us as a family , the kids were home from school the week we got her and then only me at home during the day once they went back so it gave her time to 'recover' .... lots of play time and then she would be zonked!! People may think that the penned idea is cruel but with so much play time she would sleep for a long time between plays and so therefore the penned area meant she wasn't tethered and she had 'time out' to sleep undisturbed. During the day Noodle would be out of the penned area unless we couldn't keep an eye on her. We would have her on a long lead in the kitchen so we could monitor the toileting and also limit her access to the house as we didn't want 'toilet' in any surprising places or for her to find a stray bit of LEGO!! I must say the two times we let her on the rug n the lounge she pee'd on it .. I think she thought it was grass. Outside Noodle was in another penned area for the first 2 weeks - the back yard is a big space for an 8 week old!! Again she was slowly introduced to the whole backyard. At 14 weeks I noticed Noodle was sleeping longer and not having any 'accidents' before I got to her at night. I would toilet her at 11pm and she would sleep until around 5:45/6am .. thank goodness again for the warmer weather!! I would then get her up and take her for a little walk to get the newspaper and toilet at the same time. Gradually this time has increased. So, at 14 weeks we removed the pen and decided to shut the door on the crate. Well, she went NUTS!! I first did it on a Thursday nght .... bad move, kids asleep, hubby imporant meeting the next day .. me a stressed because of teh racket she was making ..... better to start on a Friday night or whenyou don't have too much on the next day and can afford to be kept awake from the din. We put treats in teh crate but as soon as she ate those she was howling. Had to wait for 30 minuted before she was quiet for two and I could let her out .. she actually slept outside that night .. only time she ever has. Not to be outdone I started again the following night and ignored her ... actually we went out!! Went shopping for 2 hours and left her in the crate. When we got home she had been asleep. Got her out and had a big play and walk and then put her back in the crate for overnight .. yes she still 'cracked it' ... ignored her and shut all the bedroom doors. Over a week her complaints amounted to only 5 minutes. Now we have none ... having said that she wasn't happy last night. I think this is because we moved the crate to put a new fridge in and the fridge is a bit 'noisy' ...might more her crate tonight and see if that makes any difference. If we ever take Noodle out and she doesn't 'go' we keep her on the lead inside and take her out again 10 minutes later. I know crate training says to crate thema nd then take them out again after 10 minutes (there is plenty of stuff online about crate training if youdo a google search) .. I chose not to do this .. her bladder didn't 'hold' at such a young age and I didn't want her soiling in her crate. Every time she gone to the toilet and just befoer I repeat 'Go wee' over and over again .. now I only have to say it once and she goes straight away .. we are in and out very quickly .. except for poo ....she hates going in the rain!!LOL rather fart herself silly than go ot the toilet in and get her precious little feet wet... GRR I have to stand there in the pouring rain and have her on a lead and tell her to go and not move to force her to go!! As to where you put your crate it is up to you. What works best for you and your dog. Our Puli is a working dog so quite independent in nature but also enjoys company however happy to go off on her own in the back yard and do her own thing and then spend time with us inside. Really depends on your breed and on what works for you and the temperament of your dog. We wanted Noodle to be independent as we can't be here 24/7 so she needs to be able to 'cope' on her own and learn to play on her own (I can't believe how many toys she has .. rotated and an Aussie ball ... LOVES THIS to play tug of war ... we don't play this game with her she plays it with the AUSSIE ball.... bungee hanging from the carport). She is inside a lot of the time we are home but we also are mindful of not wanting her to have separation anxiety so she will also go out when we are home for periods of time. I don't want her to see a pattern in or leaving the house and getting stressed ... so far so good. I hope this is of some assistance .. at least thought provoking. I am not into giving advice .. only saying what we have dine ... take what you like from it if you think it will work for you. PS the pens are not a waste ... a good investment ... we took her away with us campinga and put mats on the ground and Noodle had her own area when she was not playing on the beach ... worked well and she was crated at night in the tent ... not a peep. I aim to use the pen again if I need to for the back fence being replaced and also should Noodle decide the washing is good fun .... ;) to pen the washing!! The pens can be joined together to make a larger one.

Hi Hacky, You might want to invest in a crate cover too. I don't know if your pets shop has them when you buy the crate - might help with the cold issue. I bought our crate from a seller on Ebay 'PuppyPower' and got the crate cover as well for a good price ... works well although I haven't had cause to use the cover as yet as Melbourne has been too warm and Noodle has a thick coat. good luck with the crate training

How cool is that!! What colour is your poodle? We named our Puli as the cords she will have when she gets a little older 'may' resemble noodles Here is Noodle ...she had a bath today ... the very WET look and then the lovely fluffy look after being dried with the drier, face trimmed, ears plucked, feet trimmed ... LOVELY :D

Thanks lucknow ... just very proud of our efforts Got to celebrate the successes along the way I reckon. Noodle is becoming a lovely member of the family. The training (sit, down, give, go wee, sitting before coming in or out and sitting and waiting for food is also coming along nicely). Also LOTS of fun!! She has also worked out each member of the family ... when she wants a pat/cuddle she will get up off the floor and come and lay in the 5 year old daughter's lap. The 5 year old can also hold a chew stick and Noodle will be on her back, tummy in the air, chewing the stick like a baby sucking a dummy ... lovely to see her placid moments. Our son is 'he who plays with me!!' .. but still we want him to be a little less like her sibling and more 'alpha' to her. She will sit and drop for him though to interact though. I am definately alpha .. she get's this 'Who me????????' look on her face when I mother growl at her. Hubby is 'He who takes me for walks to get the newspaper, plays crazy chasy games in the backyard.... and his ankles aren't too bad for a nip or two either'. Counting down two weeks until we get to go to Obedience!! Yahoo

Hi Hacky, I have just put a post called 'Crating Sucess, Toileting success' which you may want to read - hope it is some encouragement to you. I can empathise ... our Noodle did the same when we bought her home. Noodle hasn't been in our room (our decision and I realise other DOL's have differing opinions - whatever works for you). Noodle was in a penned area in the kitchen with the crate inside the pen and the door of the crate jammed open so she could get used to it but get out to toilet. We chose to use absorbant pads in the penned area and as Noodle became more predictable we would also toilet her during the night - usually me taking her out at 11pm, 2am and 4am and again at 6am .. yes, like having a new born baby. Gradually she has become used to going on the same spot outside and as you will read has only had one accident in three weeks. I have also been saying 'Go wee' and she will go now. Noodle has had the pen taken away and is now only crated at night. The first night of shutting the door on the crate was awful ...sounded like we had cut her throat!! What a noise .. best advice ... do it on the weekend when you don't have to get up for work or anything importnat the next day!! Speaking from experience on this one. Over the next week she would occasionally 'crack it', but it became less frequent. We did use treats in the crate but she would eat them and then start up ... just delayed the inevitable really I must admit that a couple of times we crated her for 1.5 hours and went OUT! At least we didn't have to listen .. when we got homw she had been asleep - probably wore herself out and worked out there was little point in her howling. Inside Noodle is on a long lead tethered to the kitchen drawers ... we spend most of our time in the kitchen area. Noodle can't be trusted in other areas of the house as yet for obvious reasons. At night I will often let her off when the house is quiet and she is quiet and she will often sit by herself or following me around. Outside Noodle was initially penned (we have two pens ... now that we are not using either I am keeping them in the wings in case I need to pen the washing .. so far so good!!) with a small bed area. Over perhaps 3 weeks we removed the pen and she was able to have full reign of the back yard. As one of the other forum members has suggested .. try wearing your pup out with games etc. so that 'sleep' comes a little more easily. Having said that I also wonder if Noodle gets a little too tired and becomes a ratty child!! I must admit to being a bit of a 'crate convert' ... as you will see from my post .. she went camping with us last weekend and is now going to her crate of her own volition when she wants to sleep. Let us know how you are going. Some pictures too would be great (hint hint) Hang in there hacky