Sayly

Being a rare breed we mostly got really good enquiries but one lady emailed asking for a pup because her riding instructor had one and he was really cool. She happened to mention she didn't care what colour they got, which is good seeing there's a choice between red, red and red. She also wasn't happy with the price seeing she didn't want to show or breed.

At least she was polite though, we had a bloke ring up and speak to both Mum and I and he was incredibly rude. Demanding he got a BIG puppy, and when we explained ours were within standard he demanded to know why we weren't breeding bigger ones like he'd seen in his state. We suggested he contact the breeder who had the 'big' ones he liked or look at another breed. He did end up contact the other breeder and she turned him down for a puppy too, he was bloody rude to her as well.

We were very lucky though and the majority were fantastic.

When you come to SA LuvLottie I will have to introduce you to my favourite Lappies. But geez they are different to Aussies to live with!

Was it a university open day? At our uni, Hills sponsor a couple of vet students to promote their food & their free stuff to all the other students. They get their claws into us early, LOL. So perhaps they were the people on the stall?

So far as I'm aware, feeding a high protein diet won't hurt a healthy dog (if it's already got kidney problems, or liver problems, that might be a different matter).

Adding extra stuff to a formulated kibble can upset the balance of nutrients, if what you're adding isn't itself balanced.

They provided us with a huge small animal nutrition textbook and sponsor everything, no wonder vets like them.

Boxagirl working in kennels made me cross a few breeds off my list! Although it did open my eyes to some breed I have never considered.

If there was no blood when the skin scraping was taken it could quite possibly be demodex.

But there still should be a full refund as vic dogs has said?

And you dont get a Murmur from food?

Taurine deficiency can lead to dilated cardiomyopathy which can cause systolic murmurs. More common in cats but has been observed in dogs. Taurine has been used to help treat DCM.

And if you do it isn't the end of the world! It's only a dog show at the end of the day. As long as you and your baby have a good day out, then it's been a successful day!

Embarassing things happen, my friend lost her knickers in the ring, and then went on and got best in show that very day!

I watched video of myself handling tonight and realised how terrible I look when I do certain things!

And no one expects those new to the ring to be amazing, so don't expect it of yourself. Go to handling classes where possible, they are a good way for you and your dog to learn.

I look back at how I handled my first Samoyed and cringe. But at the time I thought I was doing a great job.

I was nervous, gaited him badly, didn't train him well enough on the stack, baited him too much, wasn't able to see his faults so at some points whilst I thought he looked great I was actually making them worse, didn't listen to the judge well enough and hee could have been much better groomed.

I found watching those who often win helped, what do they do they I didn't? Having someone tape us in the ring was a serious eye opener, practising in front of a mirror (what was the judge seeing?) showed me my mistakes.

I also found handling other dogs was a real help, picking up little bits from other breeds helped me understand my own more.

Change Samoyed for Irish Terrier and that's me, although I knew I was terrible.

The bold bit at the end has helped me a heap, from showing well trained 'easy' dogs to quite excited, naughty dogs for other people I have picked up a lot about my showing my own dogs.

I had a junior handler teach me the basics before she moved interstate and that was a huge help. I learnt so much from her. I now watch better, more experienced handlers in the ring as much as possible, both at breed level and group and I watch videos of my own handling where possible.

I think you need to go into the ring with some confidence that your dog belongs out there too.

There's quite a few people who like Lappies who also like Aussies. Tobster and I can say they get along too, my little Aussie baby is absolutely utterly in love with her Ella.

we have Lappies (ofcourse!) and they will always be our breed. ;) Once you've been owned by one, the biggest problem is not to get another! LOL

However, I do want to add to Swedish Lappies to our Finnish, and (eventually) Lapponian Herders. These are FCI recognised, just not here yet.

The dream is to one day have ALL the Lapp breeds ;) - then I'll probably be known as the crazy Lappie woman LOL

I love the Swedish Lappiemum, but I don't think I would be a suitable home. I keep telling Tobster she needs one.

You need a breed that suits your life and abilities, so I find it hard to fathom why anyone would want complete opposites in temperament, trainability and looks

Some of us like contrast. ;)

That's the perfect word I think!

I am set on having:

More Aussies

More Irish

Purebred Bull Terrier (or Mini)

There's other breeds I have come to like and think I could live with and enjoy living with:

Pap

Collie (Roughs and Smooths)

Shelties

Lappies

And the more time I spend with them, the more I am liking Border Collies.

And there are other breeds I love the look of (and would love to show) but not sure I could live with, like Borzoi, Dachie Longs and a bunch of terriers.

I am sure I will end up with some small fluffy like a Havanese or a Tib Spaniel or even a Pom, the OH can't go past cute fluffies! Softie.

The more time you spend with dogs the shorter the list should get. Some of those lists are incredible because the breeds are all so different to live with. You need a breed that suits your life and abilities, so I find it hard to fathom why anyone would want complete opposites in temperament, trainability and looks

I currently have an Irish Terrier and several Aussies (as well as a Border Terrier and a muttly). The Irish and Aussies are incredibly different to live with, different temperament, trainability and looks. But I love both breeds and certainly will have more of both in the future - they are my two 'main' breeds and my real loves in the dog world, and while there's a few other breeds I would like to own one day I can't see anything replacing the Irish or the Aussies.

If I could only pick one breed it would be the Aussies because they are easier to live with/own/do things with, but I hopefully won't ever have to be in that situation and will have Irish to keep things lively and 'interesting' and to keep me laughing! They certainly not a breed that many people want or would enjoy living with but I just adore them.

As long as they aren't picking based on looks alone and have done their research, I think people can love and want very different breeds quite easily.

Too much 'bling' is a bit over the top but I don't mind one set of beads that match the dog's colour, anything more than that is a bit much for me, but each to their own. I personally love the leads that match suits though.

Some people like to blend the lead colour to the dog with a chain or cloth collar that matches the dog's colour as well as possible, I generally blend to a degree, for example Maizie's show lead is a blue and silver leather lead with a silver chain and silver and blue beads.

However some people match leads to suits which can look really good! I bought a couple to match favourite suits. And some people like pretty colour leads that don't really 'match' anything but just look gorgeous! There is a blue merle Aussie here shown on a pink lead, for example. And our Irish Terrier has an orange, green and white lead.

These leads do connect to a chain although I think she's made a couple that are the whole deal, a collar loop and lead in one

Conversely, if a show's booked a breed specialist - I want to be able to find them!

Exactly. We have a show coming up we wouldn't have normally entered but the judge is one we would love to show under as they have had our breed in the past, which is a rare thing. I would have hated to miss the show because we didn't know they were judging.

There's a show coming up I won't enter because the judge is rough. No way will I pay good money for someone to be rough to my dogs.

The breeder of one of our dogs is a judge for that group, we certainly can't/won't enter under her. Our girl has also been handled by a friend who is a judge, so we won't/can't enter under her either. What a waste it would be to enter under a mystery judge, do all the grooming required, then turn up at some stupid o'clock to find out we can't show anyway because the judge is a friend/breeder/business partner.

I am a 4th year Doctor of Veterinary Medicine student at Adelaide University. Have a Bachelor of Science (Pre-Vet) degree.

Worked in a lovely boarding kennel for several years (until it changed hands recently and the new owner no longer needed kennel hands).

Show Australian Shepherds (my own plus other's), our Irish Terrier and then usually another couple of breeds for other people depending on the day.

Have a prefix and plan to eventually breed Australian Shepherds under it, but won't be for some time - still too much to learn!

Mum has a prefix for Irish Terriers and we had our first litter planned last year but was not to be. Fingers crossed for the end of this year.

So my weekdays are taken up at uni/doing study at home for uni and my weekends by dog shows. Even holidays are either away to dog shows or placements to do with uni.

ETA: And slave to Poppy, my muttly.

Who would like a vet's first experience of using a scalpel on a live animal to be while operating on your pet. Being an objector is one thing and it seems to be more about legality, but the materials you use are not a substitute for a living breathing animal. There is no substitute, alternatives are just that, not substitutes. If people want vets then they have to accept that vets need to be adequately trained. It's not even a cruel practice for goodness sake, the animals aren't even killed for training!

I have no issue with them using live animals. Never said I did, but I believe there is probably better alternatives

to the practice.

If a univeristy offered free vet care to a Rescue organisations I am sure they would take up that offer.

We arent talking about 1st year green students

They dont pick up a scalpel on the first week or even first

year I wouldnt think. Probably not even second year. They have Professors and Vets with them.

They can see dogs with Parvo, mites, pyomtra etc etc etc.

Learn to treat them and watch them recover where possible

Worse case scenerio is that one of the animals may die, but so many more positives.

they get to see people trying to save unwanted animals. The work with live animals and

they might even enjoy watching something regain its health and head out to a new life

I would find it hard if I was a vet student to not have anything live while doing my studies

I am sure it gets depressing at times for them working on cadavars or non-recovery animals

If that sounds like a bleeding heart idea, then I am a bleeding heart

Adelaide Uni is going to work with certain organisations to provide free desexings done by 5th or 6th year students. However, this only really allows us to learn limited things, as does any operation on an animal who is going to be woken up. By using animals who will never wake up numerous things can be learnt from manipulations as Flick Mac has already stated.

I'd hardly call you a bleeding heart from what you wrote, unless you are out in the street protesting about something you know nothing about.

I don't think you are going to find any unis offering free service for their students to get experience as they cannot afford it. The guts was ripped out of the tertiary system years ago and they are forced to operate like businesses now. Secondly the paperwork it would generate and the liability issues makes it unworkable.

I called the new uni vet clinic down here in SA for desexing prices, not only were they not discounted, they were more expensive than a lot of other places and insisted that you had pre-ana bloods done on all desexing. They aren't interested in cheap desexing programs and from what I've read there aren't any other unis willing to do it for free either. The thing is pracs need to be organised ahead of time and allowances made for errors by the student. If they eff up in the lab then no harm done, they eff up in the surgery then the uni faces a potential lawsuit. Students need to be able to practice, that is the bare bones of it, you cannot afford to practice on someone's pet.

The bolded bit is exactly right. We need to be taught a certain amount of things in a very limited time. Waiting for a certain disease to come in, so only one or two or three students can partake in an operation on the animal is not a suitable way to cover everything.

By using animals which will never wake up, things can be manipulated to allow students to learn and practice numerous things.

And can anyone for one moment imagine the utter terror of operating for the first time on someones beloved pet? Like we aren't already under enough pressure.

What if we stuff up, say the animal wakes up with a terrible infection and suffers for a long period of time? Is that acceptable?

The uni in SA is so expensive because they are aiming at best practice, which is expensive. Plus you get some kick arse surgeons doing the procedures.

It has improved a lot in the last 20 years. When my husband graduated vets had the second (or third) highest suicide rate of all professions.

We still do. They send us to special classes in school about how to stay positive & not kill ourselves. True story.

wow! i didn't know that. is it because what vets see on a day to day basis?

We get the same thing here, from 2nd year all the way through to 5th year. One of the first classes we were told of the large amount of depression and suicide within the profession (nice way to start the degree).

Numerous reasons. It can be a very high stress job with long hours and can be crappy pay. Lack of support. Easy to take the job home when you do finally leave the clinic. Welfare issues, owners who just can't afford the proper care for their animal. Lots of reasons. And like Staranais said, it is easier for a vet to suicide than your average person.

Yes, that is true. I am not and will happily admit that. I have no practical ideas on how to stop it, I just know I want it stopped. And that is my prerogative.

There are many here (including me) who believe that a humane death for a dog is preferable to a miserable life.

I appreciate that no one wants to see healthy dogs die. But the facts are that they do and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. If they are going to die and can help other dogs and vets in the process, why object to the process? ;)

As I see it, you're focussed on the wrong issue.

That's a very fair point. And of course I would rather dogs be in doggy heaven than live a miserable life. I just don't see why they can't live happy lives. Why is it so hard for shelters and everywhere else to make it a happy living situation for them. (That is a rhetorical question). And I guess I am focused on the wrong issue. I am focused on the euthanasia part, not the process part.

Can you imagine how much it would cost to have a shelter big enough for every single dog that comes through the door to live there for the rest of its life if it isn't adopted? Who is going to pay for that? And some dogs just do not cope with being in a shelter, what if a home never comes along for them? They are to live in fear or boredom for the rest of their life?

Then why shouldn't students be able to use this issue to benefit their future patients?

They could, if they didn't put the dogs down afterwards. If there were actual problems with the dogs that they could fix. Look I don't know aye? I am simply expressing my opinion that I don't like the practices that lead to the euthanisation of healthy dogs.

But the dogs were going to be put to sleep anyway, wether the student operated or not. I get your issue is with the euthanasia, what I don't get is your issue with the students operating. The dog will be PTS regardless.

Then why shouldn't students be able to use this issue to benefit their future patients?

It's my opinion. I don't like euthanasia.

Why?

Because I don't like it. I think it is a waste of life. Why does it matter why I don't like it? I just don't. I think dogs deserve a million chances instead of being put down. I think it is pointless.

And most of us feel similar, however the rest of us are just a bit more practical about the issue.

Ahhh, the good old farm, it mist be bulging at the sides by now ;)

Leelaa, until you have some practical solutions you shouldn't condemn others. Nobody likes the fact dogs are being PTS for being unwanted, you don't have the monopoly on that emotion, but you don't have an alternative.

I understand that completely and I don't have any practical solutions - I wish I did. I am not 'condemnin' them, at least I am not trying to. But it is in my opinion that they shouldn't be using live dogs to practice on. But I do understand that that is my opinion and am greatly outnumbered on this thread as to what is a suitable method to teach students.

Why? Apart from being a better teaching tool, how is it any different to the dog to be PTS before being dissected or going to sleep, being operated on, and then being PTS?

Same experience and outcome for the dog?

yes it is and perhaps I haven't made myself clear over the many posts on this thread. This really comes down to the fact that I don't agree with euthanasia at all. I hate it. Unless a dog is dying or in serious pain then I don't think it should be done.

Again, I say, I don't know what WOULD be done with them if euthanasia was out of the question, but I just don't want it. I cringe at all of this.

It's my opinion. I don't like euthanasia.

It is the same experience and outcome for the dog. I think the thing I hate about it is the actual outcome, not what happens to get there. Does that make sense?

Vet students don't like it either! We don't like seeing animals put to sleep any more than anyone else on this forum.

The bodies that are donated aren't sick animals, the majority of the time we are learning on healthy dogs who have been put to sleep because there aren't enough homes for them. So they are euthanised just the same as the live dogs who have been operated on and PTS.

Ahhh, the good old farm, it mist be bulging at the sides by now ;)

Leelaa, until you have some practical solutions you shouldn't condemn others. Nobody likes the fact dogs are being PTS for being unwanted, you don't have the monopoly on that emotion, but you don't have an alternative.

I understand that completely and I don't have any practical solutions - I wish I did. I am not 'condemnin' them, at least I am not trying to. But it is in my opinion that they shouldn't be using live dogs to practice on. But I do understand that that is my opinion and am greatly outnumbered on this thread as to what is a suitable method to teach students.

Why? Apart from being a better teaching tool, how is it any different to the dog to be PTS before being dissected or going to sleep, being operated on, and then being PTS?

Same experience and outcome for the dog?