Maddy

14 hours ago, Scrappi&Monty said:

 

What's with you and lattes as an insult? 

Maybe it's a local thing. Insult is best delivered when doing to accompanying slippy gesture with a stupidly bent wrist.

It generally denotes the sort of person who visits the "cafe precinct" of the city to "admire all the historical buildings" (and drink lattes) while ignoring the fact that many of the lovely old homes are now cafes, their facades lost to development. Same person might also exclaim loudly that the reason they are vegan is because of the environmental impact of meat. And then they get back in their huge 4WD and drive the three blocks home again.

They are a special creature and without them, the makers of goose down jacket vests would surely go out of business.

You know, the only immunity issue I've heard of is with Frontline. I've used mostly Advocate for 10+ years and never had a problem. I've added Revolution to that but that was partly because I was buying it for my rabbits anyway (Revolution is one of the few treatments safe for the fluffy-arsed folk). I'd suspect improper dosing would be a more likely cause of immunity but even then.. I doubt it would be a common issue. Interestingly, research was done testing two common actives (Fipronil and Imidacloprid) on human head lice and they found that the Fipronil appeared to kill a certain number of adult lice (30%? Something like that, it's been a while since I read it) but after 24 hours, the lice were back up and moving again. So there, you have exposure and survival, which could be expected to result in some immunity- not unlike very young rabbit kits and RHD; if they come into contact with it as youngsters, they are immune as adults. Whether this immunity can be passed on or only benefits the individual, I'm not sure. I don't think that particular question was followed up in the research, which is a shame because the answer would be useful to know.

Worms would be a different question again. Horses live in environments that are naturally.. pretty wormy. Collect a sample for ova testing that has been sitting in the paddock for any longer than an hour or so and you might find worms have actually moved in (to the incidental worms I've killed by dropping iodine onto them, I'm sorry; wrong place, wrong time). These worms don't infest horses, they're just part of the naturally wormy outdoors but it goes to show that it's a very different environment from the average backyard that is kept to a reasonable level of cleanliness. Worms covers different species with different ways of completing their cycles and the only way to be sure would be to test across a variety of conditions, for a variety of species. So, just to be safe, I rotate wormers here and there. Ideally, I'd find a vet who loved doing fecal ova counts (ha!) and be able to rest easy but oddly enough, most would prefer to just worm with a generic and not worry too much further than that. Understandable, I guess, especially when you're the person who has to wash up the stick blender used for preparing samples.

Oh, I totally get you about the limitations of online communication. Sans the tone that might suggest a gentler intent, I think it's very easy to come across as abrupt or even *gasp* mean. 

My biggest pet peeve though is people flip-flopping all over the place in discussions, never answering rebuttals but bringing up new points (some entirely unrelated to the argument) or using fallacies to make a discussion so absurd that it's not worth continuing with. 

A bit of the above happened in this thread and I'll admit, I got a bit abrupt with you. I'm not sure I recall seeing much peer-bonding-through-Smokey-mauling but like they say, cliquey is in the eye of the beholder (regardless of the intent of others).

With regards to fleas, best way to keep dogs flea free is to not suffer infestation in the first place. On the local FB pet pages, there are inevitably threads upon threads, complaining that Owner tried product X but their house is still crawling with thousands of fleas so obviously X product doesn't actually work. Cue the people suggesting various potions, lotions, supplements, powders, elixirs that they made using a recipe that they received from divine wisdom (don't ask, I don't know) and assorted other home remedies. Actually, on the topic of bizarre home remedies.. enjoy!

59 minutes ago, SmokeyR67 said:

I love the whole teenage cliqueiness of this site, it makes me feel so young again.

If it makes you feel any better, I wouldn't consider myself to be part of any clique. If someone says something I disagree with, I voice my opinion. 

I don't dislike the people I disagree with, I'm just not keen on they have to say. Case in point, Kodi thread. Go read that mess, I suggest some coffee and biscuits to go with it. Do I dislike Odin-Genie? Nope, I just think the whole thread was a shitty thing to start because it was based on rumour and involves children. Do I dislike Scrappi&Monty? Nope, I just don't agree with stereotyping people who choose to hunt for meat, rather than picking it up off the supermarket shelf, as if meat grows on plastic trays. If anything, S&M seems like a pretty reasonable chick, otherwise. I think (after 10 years) I've probably vocally disagreed with almost every regular member on here but harbour no ill will towards any. Except maybe Samman, but people with access to OT will understand exactly why that was.

My comments* weren't intended to be rallying the troops for some Smokey bashing. And to be honest, I'm not entirely convinced that Smokey bashing is actually happening. You made some comments that people thought were very.. silly (is the nicest word I can think of there), and plenty of people can't resist an opportunity to poke the bear. For the most part, I think it was pretty good-natured and very restrained. No one accused you of being a patchouli scented latte sipper, no one suggested (even implicitly) that you should dislodge your head from the lower reaches of your large intestines, it was all pretty gentle.

Maybe Dol can be a cliquey place in some ways but a soft winding down of the thread (with silly comments about popcorn, drifting further and further off topic) is not cliquey behaviour. It's a peaceful way for a thread to die. Just let the thread go towards the light, okay? 

*Which was meant with some seriousness. To call opiates double-edged swords would be being extremely generous, as they beget even more pain when the user tries to quit. 

On a related note.. sort of entertaining/WTF story..

On Friday, while picking up supplies from my meat lady, another customer there was telling my meat lady that no, his dog didn't have worms (after said dog did a very wet, wormy poo on her floor ) and his reason for believing those things squirming around in the poo weren't worms*? Firstly, the dog "had its shots" a few months ago (cool, cool, but nothing to do with worms?) and secondly, because it had had worms, but he'd treated them by cooking some rice, frying some bacon in butter and then feeding those two things to the dog.

My meat lady looks at me, eyebrows raised, as if I might understand what had just happened. I have no idea. I'm trying really hard not to vomit- owner is standing there, holding the shovel that my meat lady gave him to clean it up, and the smell that is wafting off that shovel is diabolical. Nobody speaks. His dog is wandering around the shop, remnants of moist, wormy poo dangling from its bum fur. Dog cocks his leg on the bin for the second time since they got there, owner passes back shovel quickly, pays meat lady and he and the worm machine leave. And the conversation goes something like this:

"Meat Lady": Did he..?" She pauses here, still looking bewildered.
Maddy: "...."

ML: "Rice and bacon, fried in butter?"

M: "Maybe he meant-" Pauses, trying to think of something he might have meant.

ML: "I wormed Kiara** last week. I feel like I should worm her again."

M: Looking at scrapes of poo on the floor, from where he'd "cleaned" it up.. "Mm, yeah."
It was the most.. revolting, bizarre thing I've ever seen. So disgusting that it felt surreal. Like, finding yourself in an episode of The Twilight Zone, except with 90% more intestinal worms.

The moral of this episode.. I don't know.. I feel like maybe it should be.. like, stop letting it poo everywhere. There's a big dangly bit and.. why in the christ wouldn't you take it outside at this point?? 

*They were very definitely roundworms 

**The shop dog

On 7/29/2017 at 11:39 AM, Jess. said:

Definitely trim hairy feet down to flush against the paw pads if hairy feet are an issue.

 

I second Bunnings mats - I have nearly all my floors covered between the rubber backed carpet squares (1m x 1m for $25) and Kmart gym mats. Protects my dogs and my wooden floors. One vet bill and one floor repolish pays for a lot of rubber matting. Ugly but definitely much more pet friendly, and much nicer to walk on in the cold of winter too which was the other benefit ;) 

And stops any indoor zoomies from becoming indoors slip'n'slide'into'the'glass'door 

I actually have a picture of Idiot Dog in his socks, taken in the few seconds before the back ones sort of.. slithered off and he pulled the front ones off with his teeth..

Edited to add.. the first and last time I tried them. There was no way in hell those socks were going to stay on, even though they were apparently "greyhound" sized.

On 7/28/2017 at 9:08 PM, Scrappi&Monty said:

Monty takes sentinel/Interceptor as a treat. 

Scrappi DESPISES them. He is a smart little fella, won't even let me cut it in tiny pieces and dose like a tablet, still spits it out (he will take aspirin tablets fine). 

I have to slice the chew up into tiny pieces, and make up some disgusting concoction in a bowl usually consisting of some of these:

tin tuna, tin sardines smushed, peanut butter, mince meat, cream cheese, kibble, apple, honey, ham, sausages, mashed banana etc 

Or the trusty ham, tuna, peanut butter, ham paste, honey and cheese sandwich: Add some tuna, honey and ham paste to some peanut butter. Be generous with the honey because it makes the whole mess really sticky and hard to spit out. Crumble tablet into this mixture. Spread this hell paste onto a slice of champagne ham (because classy), sprinkle with cheese, roll up into a tube, feed this unholy mess to dog. 

If the dog is greedy enough, that'll be the end of the story. Otherwise, enjoy cleaning sticky, fishy peanut butter out of your carpets.

I mostly have large dogs so I find it easy to throw tablets down the hatch. There's a bit of a trick to it- I go in with the second knuckle of my second finger and that way, if they decide to bite down, it doesn't hurt. From that position (tablet pinched between thumb and second finger), it's really easy to reach the very back of the mouth. If you don't get past the tongue, they'll just herk it back out.

As for those chewy style wormers.. they really are worst. I've had some dogs who happily gobbled down Interceptor but most sniffed, realised it wasn't really a treat and then you have to saw the damn things into smaller bits to either hide in food or put down the throat. 2/10 Do not enjoy sawing tiny objects with steak knife.

Same goes for Drontal, actually. I'd rather have that as tablets. Curiously, you can buy it as tablets for small or medium dogs easily enough, but if you want it for large dogs, it often only seems to be available in bulk amounts (for place like Budget Pet Products) and when you work out the cost per treatment for the bulk amounts, it's actually not that cheap. I think somewhere in the region of $14 per dog ($17 per treatment in non-bulk quantities, for a 2 pack), compared to Canimax (roughly $14 per dog, assuming dog weighs between 20 and 40kg, which covers basically all greyhounds) or Paragard at $12 for a dog between 20 and 40kg. And both those alternative products can be purchased in normal consumer quantities.  If it weren't for the fact I quite like Drontal as a product, I'd be really reluctant to bother hunting for sellers who stock the large dog tabs in the small packs. 

18 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

Thanks, guys.  It does kinda seem like this product is fat rich floor sweepings.  Supplement could indicate that it doesn't qualify as a balanced/ complete diet. Just provides extra energy...as any high fat food will.  Also a bit of a worry that they aren't specific about what critters the meat cam from.  I'll give it a miss.

On their website, they mention that the only reason it doesn't meet standards for a daily food is the fat content but even if that wasn't high, a food containing lots of cereal and pork as a meat.. yeah, no thanks.

Just had a look at some of their other foods, like their regular biscuits and yeah, first ingredient was cereals, second was "meat products and fats".

Looks like someone just cashing in on the good reputation a lot of NZ pet foods have (Ziwipeak, K9 Natural, etc).

Personally, I wouldn't bother with socks. Been there, done that, now own four useless dog socks.

We had the slipping issue a lot with Idiot Dog (who would fall over and not be able to get himself back up) so we did two things: firstly, cut his nails as short as I could keep them, to force him to grip more with his toe pads. It made a noticeable difference and we got into a comfortable habit of having his nails done while he napped. The other thing was to get the insanely heavy rubber.. fuzzy.. whatever they are.. mats, from Bunnings. They're expensive but as long as you have enough in the room, if the dog slips on a bare bit of floor, a mat edge will stop them slipping too far. 

These are the mats: https://www.bunnings.com.au/matpro-60-x-90cm-esteem-rubber-backed-synthetic-mat_p4493560 They come in a few sizes, which is handy for working around furniture to get maximum floor coverage.

I wish I could offer you a better solution than just "all the mats" but that was the best we could ever come up with :/

The fat content.. 

Seeing cereal in the ingredients was an unexpected disappointment and honey is just completely unnecessary for a dog.

I've noticed that if my mince mix from my local meat lady is too fatty (which it tends to be in early summer, mostly from the sheep), the dogs are not overly keen on it and will usually eat less. On the other hand, they also don't love overly lean meats. 

If I had the time (and energy), I'd love to do a weekly soxhlet extraction to compare against time of year and how much of it they eat, to figure out their preferred range for fat content. Unfortunately for dogs and my own curiosity, I hate mucking around with easyfit glassware, especially trying to get flasks clean afterwards.

Just noticed it also contains pork. I can see how it'd be an effective energy supplement but there's no way I'd be feeding that product on a daily basis, as a food or a supplement.

Have you considered rotating between Advocate and Revolution? 

Advocate is Imidacloprid and moxidectin, which means you'll need to treat separately for tapeworm. I use Drontal for that.

Revolution is selamectin. I use with Milbemax or sometimes skip a month. We don't have heartworm down here though so skipping monthly worming may not be appropriate for where you are. We also don't spot-on treat for ticks, we use Permoxin spray on dogs if we're taking them out.

Revolution in 6 packs comes with a wormer (Canex, from memory) but.. ugh. Who makes a worming tablet fluoro pink? It also smells very strong, even to my crappy human nose. To dogs, the smell must be like being slapped around the face. 

I used to use Canimax but with a few dogs in awkward ranges, it was getting quite expensive. It's a good product, although tablets are quite large, especially when compared with Milbemax.

In my experience with wormers, you do need to check dosages because while product X might seem cheaper than product Y, if product X contains less than half of one of the actives needed to reach recommended dosage, it ends up costing the same, if not more. They do also vary in palatability and overall quality. I couldn't begin to guess at how many worming tablets I've had to throw out because I've mixed them with food (instead of just tossing them down the hatch) and the dogs haven't liked the taste, even when covered up with a revolting mixture of peanut butter, tuna and ham paste (  ) . Canex was especially guilty of this issue. If you're willing/able to just give them as full tablets, taste/smell doesn't matter. I'm usually worming at least four dogs so hiding tablets is usually just quicker.

On 6/19/2017 at 7:51 AM, Odin-Genie said:

Maddy, why are you so angry? Do you personally know the family of these children?

Evetyone here is having a reasonable discussion, main point being that we don't know who attacked who first. But Kodi was presumed guilty and declared dangerous.

I was angry because people were making some really disgusting assumptions and those assumptions and claims MATTER. If apparently 99.9% of people can't be bothered to fact check, I'm guessing future employers would probably be the same- read some person's claim on an internet forum ("Oh, I heard they stabbed the dog with a little paring knife they stole from the kitchen?") and assume it is fact. As I've already mentioned, several times above, those children's' lives are effectively over before they even began. So, you know, you guys already get that satisfaction. Enjoy your schadenfreude.

These CHILDREN (I feel like I have to shout that because people seem to forget that they are children) have not only been presumed guilty but also assumed to be violent little monsters who deserve every ounce of vitriol and violence that comes their way from this, on the basis of absolutely no evidence, just the owner's opinion.

Just in case anyone missed that.. no witnesses, no actual evidence of guilt or innocence on EITHER side. 

As for..

Quote

How come they dont tell?

In light of the revolting death threats leveled against their children, I'm guessing the parents aren't keen to risk the wrath of the keyboard warriors by drawing attention to themselves? And frankly, having been on the receiving end of some internet crazies (Hi, AR whackjobs who threatened my kids ) I can absolutely understand the fear. Sure, they might just be empty threats but given "Kodie's army" numbers THOUSANDS of people and statistically speaking, at least a few of them are probably severely unhinged, it's a risk that no parent could take.

To be honest, if I were the parent of one of those kids,I'd be packing up and moving to somewhere very far away. Somewhere my neighbours couldn't accidentally confirm my child's location to a crazy person intent on getting "justice for Kodi".

I get that this is a dog forum and many people here sit firmly in the "I like dogs more than people" camp but.. christ, CHILDREN. If you enjoy seeing children ripped to pieces by the court of social media, that's cool. Just don't pretend that it comes from anywhere other than an incredibly cruel, mean-spirited place. It might have been disguised as a thread about Tasmania's dangerous dog legislation but when started like this.. 

Quote

Kodi was a German Shepherd who was viciously stabbed in his own backyard by two boys. In self defence he bit one of the 11 year old boys who had to be airlifted for treatment.

These boys deliberately took knives and arrows and climbed over double fences to attack Kodi. But Kodi was declared dangerous and, confined to his cage, he sunk into deep depression and had to be euthanized last week.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to call bullshit. This thread was just another gathering of the same old.

As for people saying I'm mean.. possibly, but at least I'm not mean enough to enjoy (or actively encourage) the ruination of two children's lives. So yeah, I'll sleep just fine tonight.

Edited to add.. to answer Odin's question, no. I do not not the families concerned. I don't have to personally know someone to be a decent person and not spread rumours about them on social media. Weird, I know.

On 7/23/2017 at 5:17 PM, Rebanne said:

Yes I have a good idea who you are talking about.  At least I know what happened to mine. And no track record, they were a newbie.

As for your no nuts whippet boy, the breeder should have known they weren't down by time of sale. And certainly shouldn't have sold him as a show prospect until both testicles were down.

I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt but.. when we went to pick him up, she told me that both were down and quickly picked him up, flipped him onto his back, gave the area a prod to demonstrate (I saw nothing that looked like a testicle but it was too fast to see, really) and then put him back down again. So maybe she missed it because she checks that fast. Or maybe she was deliberately misleading me. There was certainly nothing in his scrotum at 8 weeks and I could tell that, so I have to assume she could, too. Maybe she was hoping they were just late to come down and that it'd happen before we tried to show him, who knows. 

This is sort of the problem, isn't it. You can't know what the other persons' intentions were; whether or not they had intended, from the beginning, to deceive, or that something had happened and they lied only because they didn't know what else to do. Honesty does seem a lot harder for some people, especially if it involves admitting a mistake. I had a couple adopt a dog from me (one that I didn't think was right for them), they insisted they could handle him and so foolishly, I let them take him. When it turned out they couldn't handle him, instead of just ringing me up and admitting this, they told me that he'd killed another dog and they had to return him. They were willing to see this dog die, rather than admit a mistake. And because I only found out about the lie several months down the track, the dog was indeed put to sleep. What I learned from that horrible experience was to never under-estimate the stupid sh*t people will lie about to avoid looking foolish/wrong. The extents that people will go to, can be quite incredible.

22 minutes ago, SmokeyR67 said:

Maddy,

 

I totally understand your situation, while there's nothing more heartbreaking than bringing a pup into your life and finding out they have health issues, theres no way you could just return them to the breeder - a responsible owner takes care of their pup no matter what

 

I've just written a small novel about my experience, but deleted it as it was way too long, so long story short, the GSD club contract at the time said that if the dog had a congenital issue, you could return the dog for a full refund (just like you'd do with a faulty toaster ) I was lucky, there was obviously no question of giving up my boy, the breeder was actually a trainer at the club, and I let them know what was going on as a courtesy - the next week they refunded the money, and helped out (non financially, i.e. dog sitting) while my boy recovered from a hip replacement.

 

In your case, I think the breeder should give you your money back to help with the vet costs you have or will incur. I know that some will argue that you still have the pup and he's a great pet, and that's true, but you wanted a dog with his boy bits in the correct position for conformation, the breeder selected the dog knowing that, and even though it's no-ones fault, surely the kennel should just refund your money not because they "provided a faulty product" but because it's the right thing to do.

 

I hope you and your boy develop a strong bond, I can understand being disappointed, but it's not his fault, not your fault and to be honest not having dangly bits might actually be a good thing in the long term:)

 

Shane

 

 

To be honest, the dangly bits that don't dangle are not all that important to me. I've decided to give them another few weeks and if they don't magically appear in that time, he'll be going in to have them removed. I can't leave them and risk them becoming cancerous, not after going through cancer twice in the last few years. I could still show him as a neuter but I feel that retained testicles of that sort are a major health issue and it wouldn't be.. honest? to show him.

The stuff that really causes us trouble is the fact he wasn't a good fit for us and I feel that it was obvious, even when we met him (he had no interest in us at all, which was not a great portent for things to come). SW is a quiet, sedate little lady who enjoys naps under blankets and loves to be with us. Puppy is.. like if you crossed a feral goat with a feral cat. He has no real interest in people, he just wants to climb furniture, eat poo- his coprophagia is an ongoing hassle- and generally be left alone. We've put in extra work because he's going to have to improve, as some aspects of his behaviour have potential to be dangerous, but it feels like a huge, miserable slog for the bare minimum of results we get. Still, we made a commitment to him and that's on us. I don't dislike him for it, I just wish we could go back and do things very differently.
With regards to money.. meh. When I brought up his coprophagia (which is a huge, unpleasant hassle, he was obviously very practiced already, by 8 weeks of age), his breeder just said that she'd never seen him do it and.. that was that? So retained testicles, yeah, I don't think the response will be much different. I feel it would be fair if she paid for the desexing but I don't have the time or energy to chase it up. Once we've booked in a desexing date and got a full cost estimate, I'll email her and just let her know. If she chooses to offer to pay for it, good. If not.. well, whatever. Lesson learned.

If we do decide to go ahead with getting a borzoi, I suspect it's going to be incredibly difficult to find someone willing to work with us to ensure that there's trust on both sides. Dogs are such a huge commitment and I'm not willing to go through this experience again. I'd rather not have a dog at all, than one I felt "meh" about, to be honest  

49 minutes ago, Rebanne said:

No. I asked to have him back several times but.....

I had a somewhat similar experience (the dog just.. disappeared, you might know who it was) and that was bad enough. I think people like that are the minority but also, people who do things like that tend to have track records. In my case, other people were like "Oh yeah, we could have told you that would happen" and it's frustrating to think that if there was some way of finding out, that dog would still be alive. Dol could probably be helpful there but then again, you can never know, can you?

3 hours ago, SmokeyR67 said:

Maddy,

 

Thanks for the quick and dirty psychological assessment, fantastic, now can I have a script for 3 dozen valium, a gross of 5mg oxycontin and hey, a bit of doxycycline wouldn't do my malaria any harm,,,

Sorry, Smokey. As a member of the flea schutzstaffel, the best we can do is imidacloprid.

My aunt had malaria and swears by herbal remedies for the chronic joint pain. The sort of herbal remedy that you buy from people who keep scissors on their coffee tables, if you catch my drift.

Probably better for you than opiates. As far as I know, you don't get the rebound pain like you would from opiates, which makes it easier to wean off.

edit: *Disclaimer* Don't buy drugs, drugs are bad.

2 hours ago, SmokeyR67 said:

Maddy, sorry to hear about your lads issues.

 

It was a very long time ago, perhaps 25 years, but I bought a pup who developed hip dysplasia at a very young age, and as part of the contract ( I hate using this sort of terminology, it makes a pup seem like a commodity) the breeder was obliged to either take the dog back and replace him with another pup, or refund the purchase price. That was in the standard GSD club paperwork, is there anything like that in the paperwork you signed?

 

Shane

Nope, we handed over money and that was it. At the time, we were put in a really awkward position (kids involved) and in hindsight, yeah, I definitely should've backed out and asked for a full refund of my deposit (which was $750, not money we could really walk away from). It was a case of feeling a bit.. cornered? We were led to believe one thing, organised a huge amount of stuff around it, such as long service leave for staying home with puppy, and we basically had no choice.

Not that we could just send him back now anyway. He isn't what we wanted but that's not his fault and he doesn't deserve to be dumped back at his breeders for a refund or exchanged like a t-shirt that doesn't fit. I know some people could do that but.. I couldn't. I spent many years rescuing and a few of those dogs were pet surrenders and they were always the hardest. The owners would walk away and the poor dogs would screech and cry as they realised what was happening. One plain just stopped eating and it was heartbreaking to see how it hurt her. So yeah, I could never do that to a dog. At least he is happy and that's what really matters.

But the experience was certainly an eye-opener. We had planned to get a borzoi later this year but now I'm not sure. The whippets are the OH's dogs (SW turned him into a crazy whippet man) and after losing my last greyhound to cancer, I wanted another big sighthound for myself. I want one but now I have so many doubts and so many concerns. 

Rebanne, I'm so sorry you lost a pup, I can't begin to imagine how painful that must have been  Without being too specific, did it come to a home down here?

On 7/22/2017 at 9:33 AM, Airedaler said:

I've started this as a new topic as I didn't want to hijack Pollypops topic on buying a desexed puppy.

 

It can be an interesting experience buying a pure bred dog in this day and age, one I'm so glad that I am not doing.

I often think if breeders of today had faced the same attitude to selling pups and protecting "their" lines when they bought their first dog  (40+ years ago in my case) they would not have been  in the dog world today, nor would many other dedicated people. And yes there were BYB's back then. Maybe not the oodle x's but people bought purebred dogs and indiscriminately bred from them and profited from them which is some ways were worse. 

 

If I buy something surely it is my right to do with it as I please. Of course good standards for the care and welfare of the animal are paramount. If a breeder wants to put conditions on the sale then IMO they should not be charging the full price for the pup. When I bought my first purebred dog I remember saying to the breeder "Oh I would not want to show but it would be nice to have a litter or two". So, today I would be sent packing in no uncertain terms, hung, draw and quartered, put on a blacklist of people never to be sold a puppy or adult because I was one who only wanted to make some money and goodness knows what else. Instead I became involved with my breeder's encouragement and experience in what has been a lifelong interest. My breeder encouraged me and many others to do so. I accept that not everyone is prepared to do the right thing and that does make it harder today BUT IMO purebred breeders are a huge part of the state we find the purebred dog world in today and to fix that they need to look at the bigger picture if it is to survive. I've had my time and am pretty much finished in this hobby but I would still like my grandchildren to be able to buy a well bred sound purebred puppy if that is what they wish to do.

Oh, yes.

We paid $1500 for a mains registered dog (as a show prospect) who, as it turns out, is a bilateral cryptorchid (six months old now, can't even feel them in the inguinal canal, which means likely abdominal). We got no choice in puppy- in fact, we got the puppy I liked least of all- and so he has become a very expensive pet that I haven't really bonded with. It was a profoundly disappointing experience and one I plan to never go through again, if I can avoid it.

Compare this to the previous dog: she came from a registered breeder who sold pups unregistered if people just wanted them as pets (and I believe she has since been dobbed in and is no longer registered). Shitty Whippet cost us $600 and is such a perfect dog that it's sort of annoying at times. Shitty Whippet is incredibly clean, endlessly patient and sweet-natured and, to be honest, the entire reason the OH fell so completely in love with the breed.

If the second whippet had been our first whippet, he would have been our only whippet, because I'd never have gone near the breed again.

For the second whippet, we researched breeders, we tried to do everything right and it ended up being a very bad experience compared to when we got SW. Usually, the advice given here (by me, included) is "do your research" but now, I honestly have doubts as to whether that is actually particularly useful advice. It's more like "Do your research and then cross your fingers." because really, you just can't know.

The entire experience has completely put me off the pedigree dog world and given me serious reason to doubt everything I'd believed about it. I still want to own purebred dogs but to be honest, I'm incredibly wary of dealing with registered breeders because I now know that I can't pick when someone is being dishonest with me :/

12 minutes ago, moosmum said:

Maybe I have missed it, but I haven't seen people on here being treated badly for asking advise on flea treatment.

 

When we moved onto our land it had the worst flea infestation I have seen. Going into the dirt floored shed you would come out with a carpet running up your leg.

It took awhile, but have to agree its certainly possible to be flea free when you don't have to worry about what comes from next door. We are also flea free.

 

It may be common, and not worth being upset about Smokey, but it shouldn't be 'normal' either.

Not really. I think poor old Smokey may have suffered some sort of terrible flea-shaming in his life.

How the conversation actually goes:
OP: "My dogs have fleas, how do I fix the problem?"

Other people here: "I prefer to use [this], [this] or [this], but I've heard a lot of people have success with [this]."

How Smokey sees it go down:

OP: "My dogs have fleas, how do I fix the problem?"
Other people here: "LIGHT THE PYRE! SHARPEN THE PITCHFORKS! Prepare to burn the flea-abiding MONSTER, we shall anoint his earthly remains with Frontline before we offer them to the angry god, Dettol, keeper of absolute hygiene!"

So anyway (if Troy could fix the reply box, that'd be great)..

I'd totally agree that it's up to the individual to decide. But in my opinion, what the individual decides, tells you a lot about what they prioritise as a breeder. Breeders clutching their pearls and shouting that they'd never allow their precious babies to be bred from.. it misses so many points and ignores so many bigger issues. But that's their choice. They don't have to defend it if they don't want to, they don't have to read my thoughts on the matter, they are free to do whatever they please. Just as I'm free to strongly disagree with it.  

I get that this opinion is not popular here (shocking!) but  as I think we've seen a lot lately, the pedigreed dog world is in for a nasty shakeup if attitudes don't step into the current century.

It is entirely acceptable (within the culture) to dock tails, remove dewclaws, breed dogs who are inherently unhealthy, and the apparent lack of care for dogs as a whole (as opposed to just their own) will only make them an even softer target for the AR movement. 

Anyway, not my circus, not my monkeys. My trust in the ethics of the pedigree dog world just gets eroded a bit more.

20 hours ago, cannibalgoldfish said:

Quote that won't go away. new editing box is painfully broken. Can't even cancel the reply D:

On 3/17/2017 at 0:29 PM, Blastoise said:

I won't use any meds, just take shower for my dog if I find fleas.

You realise that just washing the dog won't control fleas? 

I no longer treat for ticks (as we've never seen a single one in 10 years, our dogs are 95% inside, outside time is either in our own yard or on leash and walking on pavement) and heartworm is not present down here so below is what I now use, in rotation:

Advocate and Drontal

Revolution and Milbemax
That covers fleas, worms and a few other things. We've never had any problems with fleas, despite taking in some very infested dogs.

We treat regularly, avoid places like dog parks (which are good places to pick up a number of parasites) and a couple of times a year, I also treat all bedding (with Permoxin) and all coats/collars/other things that could harbour adult fleas/larvae/eggs.

3 hours ago, Dame Danny's Darling said:

I applaud your self control, Maddy, but wonder why you would bother with this person who is obviously a legend in his own mind and pities the rest of the world.  

I've bothered with far worse :P

In all seriousness though, it was for the benefit of anyone who might find this thread while looking for information. I'd hate for someone to read it and walk away thinking that all dogs have fleas and that it's normal (or that most dogs have fleas, depending on which of his posts you read).

2 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

No way will our puppies EVER be part of a puppy farm oodle programme & pups sold via pet shops ,that risk is far worse .I can't believe anyone would think it is better for a dog to be bred from this way than spayed early .

I guess those with high risk feel the risks are better than being a breeding machine & yes owning a bred that is advertised every weekend as an oodle cross & anything else i feel no guilt what so ever spaying early but feel pride knowing our pups arent part of that industry

 

Your dogs, your choice

I stated my view and I absolutely stand by it. The way I see it, it's removing any responsibility from your own shoulders and passing it onto a puppy buyer who might not know enough to fully understand all of the risks. If you're comfortable doing that, that's entirely your business.

As for this..

Quote

I can't believe anyone would think it is better for a dog to be bred from this way than spayed early

I don't think you're understanding what I said. I'm not suggesting breeders should be selling their puppies knowingly to backyard breeders but backyard breeding is going to happen anyway so for the benefit of the puppies bred and the people who end up with them, surely it is better for those puppies to have come from healthy, well-bred parents. No one would want their puppy to end up living in a cage to mass produce puppies but again, would you rather see a relatively healthy dog standing in that cage or the dog with luxating patellas, whose every moment is agony, producing more dogs who will break the hearts of their owners when they die earlier deaths from heritable conditions.

It's easy for registered breeders to say that it's not their problem, people shouldn't backyard breed, etc., but health and welfare are about more than just your own dogs. If it's not your dog suffering, it's another dog suffering. It's a no-win situation but it could be made somewhat less harmful.

Is it better for backyard breeders or puppy farmers to use healthy, well-bred animals? Obviously. 

Is the risk of the dog being used for breeding reasonable when weighed against the risks of early spay/neuter? For the individual breeder, who is looking after their own interests only, probably not. For the health and welfare of dogs generally, I'd say yes.

With regards to Leo.. what if he had been desexed at 8 weeks old, gone on to develop a cancer of the endocrine system and died as a young dog? We'd never have heard of him. Oscar's Law don't show graphic, emotive images of dogs quietly dying of cancer, while their heartbroken owners are powerless to save them.

Desexing at 8 weeks is a convenient, easy way for a breeder to absolve themselves of further responsibility. It certainly does not benefit the animal's health, if the many studies that suggest increased cancer/orthopedic risks are to be believed.

Personally, I would not buy from a breeder who desexed at the age. If a breeder is willing to risk actual health to avoid potential unauthorised breeding, I think they have their priorities totally upside down. 

Further, if oodle breeding is going to happen anyway, surely it is better (both for the resulting pups and the people who buy them) for the parents to have come from breeders who will likely have paid more attention to health? Don't get me wrong- I disagree with random oodle breeding (and I wouldn't own one if they were the last dogs on Earth) but we can at least attempt to mitigate some of the potential problems. I'd much rather people were oodle-making with healthy parent animals than with BYB dogs full of heritable conditions that will guarantee a lifetime of misery for the pups.

On 7/18/2017 at 10:55 AM, Rascalmyshadow said:

Hi welcome to the forum.

I would look at a better option I know some people have had good success with it but I tried it and it was the worst food I have ever used, the dogs dropped muscle tone, had dull coats and lots of dandruff and lacked energy, it took me a while to realise it was the food, then I started to find more people that had the same issues.

 

Different dogs do well on different foods, we have four little dogs (three coated) we use Canidae dry and a combination of Ziwipeak and Holistic select tinned, (except for the poodle he needs sensitivity tinned) and they all have beautiful coats, good muscle tone and plenty of energy.

I had a similar but sort of.. opposite experience with BH. Dogs seemed to be constantly ravenously hungry all the time but were bouncing off the walls, like kids after a huge bag of lollies. Output was pretty unpleasant, also. And this was back when BH was still a "local" company and very respected. I'd never feed it again.

My dogs are mostly raw fed but if we do need kibble, it's either Ziwipeak (mostly used for training treats) or Taste of the Wild. ToTW is our reliable go-to food for dogs who need to be weaned off kibble and onto raw. Never had a dog refuse it and it's an acceptable substitute for dogs I adopt out to homes that don't want to raw feed. They seem to maintain a reasonable condition and scurf/kennel coat doesn't seem to be a problem (although in winter it can still happen if they aren't getting the right amount of fats). 

We've also tried Ivory Coat but found palatability was below average and in all other respects, it seemed just.. average. Average, but quite expensive to get down here.

Personally, I'd always go with a mostly raw diet if possible. It can be daunting to get into and the internet can make it seem a lot harder than it actually is, with so many different opinions about what dogs need to be eating. There are the people who use products like VAN, the people who believe dogs need pulped vegetables, the people who believe everything needs to be carefully weighed out into ratios, the pro cottage cheese people, the anti cottage cheese people, BARF, cooked human-grade, prey model, the probiotics/assorted magical powders people.. and so on and so forth. Personally, I just feed my dog fresh meat and bone (from a local pet meat abattoir) in whatever quantities equals roughly one kilo per day, per dog. It might be a stack of fresh roo tails one day, and then beef and mutton pieces the next. No vegetables, no powders, lotions, potions or cottage cheese, and they do great. Might not work for the next person though, it's really trial and error.