DeltaCharlie

I have a feeling discussions on these topics is a no-no, but I just want to point out that a breed may look similar to a cross but the temperaments are often way off. A Finnish lapphund, for example, is a herding breed. To think it would have a similar temperament to a Pomeranian (not sure what they are for) and a husky (sledding dog) is pretty far-fetched and there is no way I would suggest that as an alternative to somebody interested in that cross.

Dr Katrina has just posted on FB a lost dog notice 'Pippin' lost from the Farmer Dave Dog Centre.

I'd be looking for fresh dug dirt...

That was my first thought too Apparently there have been sightings around the area though so fingers crossed the dog is ok and caught soon.

After everything that went on with Wags I suspect that any future dogs killed will possibly be buried and then reported missing. I can't see him risking the fallout of another death.

You know what, count me in :) I probably won't last long as I tend to forget about these things LOL

I will attempt a year of portraits :) It will likely be a year of dog portraits (and thankfully we have 13 dogs so it won't be too imposing on way one) but I want to leave myself open to people portraits too. Portraits are something I love to shoot so want to really explore my camera and how to achieve more with it.

Cheapest places I've found are either budgetpetproducts, stefmar or oveds. I rotate between the 3 usually depending on their specials etc and shipping (they often have free shipping). Occasionally I do a search of some of the other places but these 3 are consistently cheaper than the others.

Some of ours use Milbemax (heartworm, worming) and Bravecto (fleas and ticks). Our other dogs (old or with existing health issues that make bravecto too risky) use advocate (heartworm, worming, fleas) and scalibor collars (ticks).

We feed roo tails (very lean and takes them forever to eat) or lamb brisket, chicken frames, turkey wings. We used to feed beef brisket but had a few issues with pancreatitis so don't anymore.

Be careful with feeding too many necks (from any animal) as it contains all the thyroid tissue. We have a dog here who became hyperthyroid from eating neck tissue (he was the only dog on that meat as he can't tolerate roo meat like the others). His thyroid returned to normal when we changed his meat but unfortunately it has caused irreversible damage to his heart.

Fairly sure I said that my dogs don't do it to sheep.

Sorry, I was talking about the comment about border collies liking to create movement. That is actually an undesirable trait for them to have and I would like to think that it isn't something that all BCs have.

The bloke who started our dogs puts dogs into a sliding scale between 2 extremes. Those who like to create movement and those who like to control movement. Ideally, you need a mix of the 2 in a good working dog. A dog at either extreme is no use.

Have to ask - given stockwork RELIES on both the creation and control of movement, what use is a working dog that doesn't want to create movement? Maybe I am just misinterpreting what you're saying.

I do agree about the siding scale though - I have "create movement" addicts - control that movement, not so much (but we're working on it).

That was my point :) A dog that just wants to create movement for the hell of it is hard work and a PITA. A dog that just wants to control movement and is too sticky is no use either. You want something in between :)

Fairly sure I said that my dogs don't do it to sheep.

Sorry, I was talking about the comment about border collies liking to create movement. That is actually an undesirable trait for them to have and I would like to think that it isn't something that all BCs have.

The bloke who started our dogs puts dogs into a sliding scale between 2 extremes. Those who like to create movement and those who like to control movement. Ideally, you need a mix of the 2 in a good working dog. A dog at either extreme is no use.

On a slight tangent though, if it is a behaviour that is not present on stock, can it really be called a working instinct?

Casting and driving ability are different things. A dog can have a wide natural cast and still be good at driving. They have to go get the sheep before any driving happens :)

I am going to say that the jumping up at the handler is instinct though. Border collies like to make things move, So they can then make them stop :laugh: I've seen my dogs do this to lots of critters, various degrees of force until the animal runs. Then they stop them. I haven't seen them do this with sheep though probably because they don't have to and the sheep cooperate and move.

Interestingly Poppy does work fairly close on sheep and wouldn't work away from me in agility.

I don't want my dogs creating movement for the hell of it. If the sheep don't need to be moved anywhere and they are together, I don't expect my dog to do anything, I certainly don't want them to make the sheep move unnecessarily. I have a bitch who has some show lines behind her and that is what she wants to do. Works beautifully, nice and calm, very useful dog. But can't handle the lack of movement. She has a reliable stop but doesn't have the patience to wait for longer periods or just watch calmly. She has to create movement. It is not a useful attribute for a border collie to have IMHO.

In agility, the dogs should never be trying to create movement in the handler. Nipping, jumping up etc is frustration because the handler is not giving the correct information or not giving it in a timely fashion. I am seeing it a lot at the moment with people trying to throw in fancy moves when they are not required or not even suitable for that situation. Dogs are asking lots of questions and getting inconsistent answers.

I have an awesome dog who is just too much dog for me. I gave him to Tailwag to start running about a year ago now. I frustrated the hell out of him as my cues were poorly timed or inconsistent. He was forever barking at me, launching himself at me, and even went in for a nip sometimes. He reached a point where he was second guessing me even when my cues were spot on. I was worried he would hurt me and that made me handle him too conservatively which made the problem worse. Tailwag just gets out there and runs, he much prefers that and they are starting to gel nicely now.

Does Tailwag want a go at a Kelpie :laugh:

She'll take on anything :laugh:

Casting and driving ability are different things. A dog can have a wide natural cast and still be good at driving. They have to go get the sheep before any driving happens :)

I am going to say that the jumping up at the handler is instinct though. Border collies like to make things move, So they can then make them stop :laugh: I've seen my dogs do this to lots of critters, various degrees of force until the animal runs. Then they stop them. I haven't seen them do this with sheep though probably because they don't have to and the sheep cooperate and move.

Interestingly Poppy does work fairly close on sheep and wouldn't work away from me in agility.

I don't want my dogs creating movement for the hell of it. If the sheep don't need to be moved anywhere and they are together, I don't expect my dog to do anything, I certainly don't want them to make the sheep move unnecessarily. I have a bitch who has some show lines behind her and that is what she wants to do. Works beautifully, nice and calm, very useful dog. But can't handle the lack of movement. She has a reliable stop but doesn't have the patience to wait for longer periods or just watch calmly. She has to create movement. It is not a useful attribute for a border collie to have IMHO.

In agility, the dogs should never be trying to create movement in the handler. Nipping, jumping up etc is frustration because the handler is not giving the correct information or not giving it in a timely fashion. I am seeing it a lot at the moment with people trying to throw in fancy moves when they are not required or not even suitable for that situation. Dogs are asking lots of questions and getting inconsistent answers.

I have an awesome dog who is just too much dog for me. I gave him to Tailwag to start running about a year ago now. I frustrated the hell out of him as my cues were poorly timed or inconsistent. He was forever barking at me, launching himself at me, and even went in for a nip sometimes. He reached a point where he was second guessing me even when my cues were spot on. I was worried he would hurt me and that made me handle him too conservatively which made the problem worse. Tailwag just gets out there and runs, he much prefers that and they are starting to gel nicely now.

How they instinctively react to pressure- yes. Herding instinct- no.

I go back to my original comment though. If I push my dog around the outside of a jump I am not going to blame it on instincts. It is bad handling on my part for putting too much pressure on their line. Regardless of breed or working style, I did not handle my dog correctly to negotiate that part of the course.

Leaving the course or stopping the dog is a bandaid. It will not fix the problem & can easily reduce drive

IMO it is never related to herding instinct

If anything herding instinct tends to be more about running around obstacles and flanking from the handler under arousal.

I would just call that either bad handling or poor foundations and subsequent poor understanding by the dog. Running around a jump has nothing to do with herding instinct. I have never seen a dog attempt to cast out around an inanimate object to bring it back to the handler. Equipment doesn't act like stock and no dog would be confused between the 2.

Instincts get blamed for so many errors and as a result, the real reason is never addressed. The furthest I would ever venture to say that instincts play a part in is working dogs find curves easier to read and gundogs find straight lines easier to read. Even that is stretching things a bit.

I'm not suggesting that dogs confuse stock and equipment - I'm just saying that dogs that work wide on stock DO tend to run wide at agility. They naturally want to work away from their handler.

My young boy is from a driving line - he is very direct and doesn't cast out away from me. Maria Thiry's Kwyk runs out (not away) from her all the time - very different breeding.

I don't consider that instinct though. That is just how the individual dog responds to pressure. We have a terrier who prefers to work further away and one that likes to be super close. Would you still refer to it as instinct in a non-working breed? Dogs all respond to pressure differently, and yes that can relate to their breeding purpose and lines. It isn't instinct though.

Leaving the course or stopping the dog is a bandaid. It will not fix the problem & can easily reduce drive

IMO it is never related to herding instinct

If anything herding instinct tends to be more about running around obstacles and flanking from the handler under arousal.

I would just call that either bad handling or poor foundations and subsequent poor understanding by the dog. Running around a jump has nothing to do with herding instinct. I have never seen a dog attempt to cast out around an inanimate object to bring it back to the handler. Equipment doesn't act like stock and no dog would be confused between the 2.

Instincts get blamed for so many errors and as a result, the real reason is never addressed. The furthest I would ever venture to say that instincts play a part in is working dogs find curves easier to read and gundogs find straight lines easier to read. Even that is stretching things a bit.

We have 8 dogs insured through petplan and will always go with them. We also have a few through bow wow meow and PIA and their communication skills are severely lacking (all those companies are under the same banner of petsure). Petplan has covered close to $10k over the last 12months with no questions asked, just a check in the mail a few days later.

Our premiums have only gone up by a few dollars each year. You will find that all insurance companies have (including car, house etc). Petplan did a big reshuffle about 18months ago and some breeds became much more expensive (border collies stayed about the same thank god). Maybe that is what you are thinking of? That doesn't happen all the time though, just when they changed their policy structure. What you see is what you get now, it shouldn't change drastically in the near future.

Google snuffle mats. They are easy to make and apparently keep them going for ages. I've never actually tried them. Otherwise there is also the play systems range that you can get from most big chain pet places. They have 7 or 8 types.

For us, it is very important. A border collie is a sheep dog first and foremost and I do not believe they should be bred unless they have proven themselves to be useful working dogs with good natural instinct.

Just found this too

Offences

I just saw this article pop up on my news feed tonight. I knew that there was something in the works and something on TV tonight but we have no tv at the moment.

What does this mean now? Has he been charged or is he facing charges (is that the same thing?) Is it simply a matter of fines for him or could something like that carry bans from working with animals?

....Tip #2 There is no need to treat monthly, even for heartworm. Heartworm is not dangerous until it reaches maturity, which takes a minimum of 6 months. It can also be killed at any point during that 6 months. Many people only treat their dogs for heartworm every 3 months (giving you 2 opportunities each 6months to eradicate the buggers). Many will also only treat during the summer months, from first mosquito sighting until about a month after they disappear (heartworm is transmitted via mosquito). We treat all year round, the first day of each new season to help us remember....

...this strategy is not 100% safe, e.g. there might be a 5% likelihood that the dog will suffer from an adult heartworm depending on the drug used, more info here on Wikipedia, see Prevention.

Where do you get 5% from? Genuine question, not trying to be picky :) I find it too hard to read multiple pages at once on my phone so haven't opened the link yet.

For a dog to get heartworm it needs to be bitten by a mosquito who is carrying it. For a mosquito to be carrying it it needs to have bitten a different dog who has adult heartworms. Mosquitos don't live very long so all this has to happen in a very short period of time. Once you factor in the % chance of all of those stars aligning, and then combine it with the % chance of you missing any heartworms on 2+ treatments, your risk factor is becoming very miniscule :)

What is really annoying is having dogs in different weight ranges so you have to either buy 2 lots. And only just in different ranges too.

Yep! We have 3 different weight ranges here. The terriers are 2.5kg and 4.5kg, the pyrenean shepherd is about 8kg and the border collies range from 11kg-17kg. Although we use scalibor collars on 2 of the BCs and just cable tie the cutoff bits onto the terriers LOL The others are all on bravecto.

We have 13 dogs, so cheap ways are definitely a priority here :)

Tip #1 Combine as many products as you can. If ticks are not an issue where you live, advocate is your best bet. It does fleas, worms and heartworm. So does Sentinel, but it wont kill adult fleas. If fleas are not a problem, Interceptor or milbemax is a better option. Its cheaper as it only does worms and heartworm. If ticks are a problem where you live you can either use a scalibor collar + advocate, or use something like bravecto (fleas and ticks) + interceptor/milbemax.

Tip #2 There is no need to treat monthly, even for heartworm. Heartworm is not dangerous until it reaches maturity, which takes a minimum of 6 months. It can also be killed at any point during that 6 months. Many people only treat their dogs for heartworm every 3 months (giving you 2 opportunities each 6months to eradicate the buggers). Many will also only treat during the summer months, from first mosquito sighting until about a month after they disappear (heartworm is transmitted via mosquito). We treat all year round, the first day of each new season to help us remember.

Tip #3 Buy online. Budget pet products always seem to have good deals and often free shipping, but do a bit of searching there are plenty of online sites around to compare the prices.

I personally haven't heard of it, but I am of the opinion that if you need that degree of intervention just to get the dog pregnant, perhaps she isn't the best dog to be breeding from. AI because a natural mating cannot take place due to location, injury, etc is a different story. Those dogs would otherwise have managed it naturally.

We have been feeding roo for years, it is their main protein source. They also happily eat lamb brisket, chicken frames, turkey wings etc. Never had a dog turn their nose up at other food LOL

their webpage actually doesn't disclose much details wrt the ingredients - the information is very general - I miss some percentage figures and more details regarding 'seasonal fresh vegetables & fruit'...

I thought the same thing but I asked the question and the response came back pretty quickly. Currently the veggies used are spinach, celery, apple, sweet potato and a small amount of carrot. Not sure of the percentages, I didn't ask that. I just have a dog that cannot have a large number of common veggies and herbs so needed to know the actual ingredients.

It isn't exactly something that we would be able to afford with 13 dogs (and I like to know exactly what is going into my dog's food) but I was curious about it as a possible "store in the freezer for emergencies" food.

I have heard from quite a few people who have fed it for a long time and the feedback has all been very positive. These were all performance people who do a fair bit of research into the diets of their canine athletes so I respect their opinions pretty highly.

I think in terms of the genetic predisposition side of things, it is more a case of certain breeds being more predisposed to growing large and fast than the actual condition itself.

We have bred a border collie who had surgery for OCD at 10months of age. He was always going to be a big dog (he matured to 570mm at the shoulder) and grew waay too fast. He was fed a cheap puppy food and overexercised as a young pup. At 6 months of age in the middle of a major growth spurt he slipped awkwardly chasing a frisbee on wet, frosty grass. He had a limp for a few weeks but seemed to get better. At 9 months, a similar injury. X-rays showed OCD in the shoulder (the fragments were floating in the joint). He had surgery to correct it and hasn't had an issue with it since.

We were questioned as to why we would repeat the mating given "we had OCD in the lines". We don't deem it to be genetic in this instance, rather it was environmental. We know now to be more careful when homing pups to stress the importance of proper diet and appropriate exercise as they grow, regardless of how experienced the home is that they are going to.