DeltaCharlie

Thank you everybody. I have just come home from the vet and my girl has had the triennial C3 and the annual kennel cough vaccination. The vet said I need not do the kennel cough vaccination every year but it needed to be done two weeks before she went to a kennel. Thanks for the info about titre testing (and Trifecta I know where Kate Millhouse is) but the kennel she goes to does not accept it. I am very happy with the kennel which is at a vet's and only takes elderly or sick animals. They only have about twelve dogs at a time and it suits me. She seems to be happy there and since I expect to be attending an interstate wedding in the near future she needs her vaccinations to be up to date.

She seems to have recovered well from her seizure, and I guess I just have to wait for the next one which will probably not be for a few months. The vet did say that anxiety can trigger a seizure and since she is an anxious dog I will keep that in mind. I do have a new puppy here and I am wondering if it is upsetting her.

Thank you everybody for your suggestions

Great to hear that she recovered well from the seizure the other night :) I was thinking about her this afternoon actually and the fact that she only has about 4 a year. Are they spaced out fairly evenly and how do they correlate to worming treatments? Someone on an epilepsy group I'm on mentioned the other day that their dog has a seizure every 3 months and it worked out to be within a week of her worming each time. Its not something I had ever considered before but I guess it makes sense. I know of many dogs that only have a seizure on a full moon. There is so much about the disease that we will probably never understand, which is very scary! It makes it very hard to avoid triggers when they are so varied

Many vets do actually advocate against the current vaccination schedules as every 3 years is still too often for most dogs. All of ours are titre tested regularly. We would never neglect to vaccinate any of our dogs purely because of the risk it may bring on seizures. If their immunity level ever drops, they will be vaccinated without hesitation, even the one with seizures. Titre testing is a science based assessment. It is quantitative data. It is not opinion, it is fact.

Vaccinating every year purely because that is what your vet says is not an adequate excuse. Most vets I have spoken to said that they only reason they still advocate for it is because it is the only way to get people to bring their dogs in for a health check. Otherwise they would never get to see most dogs and it is often too late if an issue does arise, whereas at least every 12 months gives them a better chance of early detection.

Nobody on here has advised not vaccinating without actually testing for immunity first. Would I rush into it a vaccinate my healthy dog? No. So I certainly wouldn't do it with an unhealthy dog. I would, however, get a titre test done in the near future so I know what I am dealing with. That way you know for sure that your dog is protected. Just taking the risk that a dog is protected is also irresponsible.

Just wanted to jump on to say I met a Pyrenees shepherd on my street in Inner west sydney today. I've never met one before and I was like all like gushing how Beautiful and the owner said he is imported from the u.s.?

Before Pagan scared him by play bowing all over the place and barking in his face to play, so we promptly left. Hope to see him again though.

That was probably Wookiee, Hype's brother. They are from NZ. Wookiee lives in Sydney,can't remember the suburb). Or it could have been Presto who is a brindle boy imported from the US about 12months old but he normally lives in Bathurst or Orange (somewhere out that way and definitely not inner west :laugh: ) Their owners are good friends though so stay with each other some times.

Geez DC, 9 & 13... Dash & Delta are going amazingly well. And on no supplements at all. Are either of them Arthritic? What is Spondylosis DC? Never heard of that.

She has certainly defied the odds & the experts by all accounts. Well done girl :)

Minimal arthritis in Dash, nothing to be concerned about and chiro said she is in great nick for her age. Delta is not arthritic at this point. They are seen pretty regularly by a massage therapist and by our performance vet every 3 months when we go back to Canberra.

Spondylosis is the growth of bony spurs along the spine, over time some of them actually fuse together and restrict movement. She was diagnosed at the age of 2 while x-raying for hip dysplasia. Turns out her hips are fine but she has spondylosis right the way along her back and especially in the pelvic area. The issue for her was more the secondary symptoms, really tight muscles that were poorly developed from not being used correctly. As long as I keep on top of the muscles she seems to be pain free (and the BOT coat is great for keeping them warm). She is not at all stoic and if she is in any pain will refuse to run so in her case it is easy to keep track of how she is going. Some of the others would run on 2 legs if need be, so thank god she isn't like that!

Dash is 13 and still actively trialing, Delta is 9 in December and we were told she would be unlikely to trial past the age of 4 due to her spondylosis. The others are just regular dogs with no particular issues.

As a comparison to Tassie, ours used to be on joint supplements and RHV but we had to take them all off about 18months ago when we moved as money became too tight to afford it. So ours get no support other than their BOT coats yet are still moving better than ever. Delta has actually improved considerably and is now a very consistent dog in agility.

We have both and our older dogs wear them at night and all day at trials. We have noticed a huge difference in the dogs and swear by them. During winter the dogs with quilted coats wear them and the dogs with mesh coats wear theirs under a thicker jacket. During summer they all just wear the mesh ones.

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I pay $120 for 12kg Earthborn Coastal Catch from Natural Pet Store. Free delivery :)

Petcircle do the 12kg bag for $106.95 with free shipping :) that's where we buy our totw from.

How does Stella go on it given that rosemary is considered a no-no for dogs with seizures?

You can get the KC vaccine without getting all the others.

I know how you feel, every 4-6weeks my girl has cluster seizures. They consist of up to 30 grand mal seizures (over about 3 days) and then another 3 days worth of partial seizures which are enough to make her fall over but not lose consciousness. 6 days of seizures every month is very taxing...

Plenty of kennels accept titre tests, even if they don't advertise the fact :) it pays to ask around. Not worth the risk of vaccination for your dog IMO

Definitely do not vaccinate ever again, if it can be helped. I get titre tests done on all my dogs but definitely with my seizure girl as I don't want to take the risk that anything will trigger a seizure.

With Border Collies it is generally accepted that you feed 4 meals until 3-4 months and then 3 meals until 6 months, then you can drop to 2 meals after that. They are pretty active as pups though so need that frequent energy boost. Our 20 week old pyrenean shepherd is on 2 official meals a day but is also worked in the afternoon for kibble so is somewhere between 2 and 3. He is a smaller breed though.

I'm not quite understanding. So he is a good weight and otherwise healthy? Just because a dog acts starving and wants more food doesn't mean we need to give it to them. If he is the right weight I would say he is getting the right quantity. Maybe try splitting it over more meals or adding some pumpkin to make him feel full?

We will be there :) Probably trialling 7 dogs; Delta, Link, Whip, Rush, Fuze, Shock and Boost (she will 20months and presumably ready to trial then). Hype (pyrenean shepherd) will only be 16 months (and probably way too immature until he is 2 LOL) but he will come along for the ride. Dash is still trialling well atm but will be nearly 14 so she might just run pairs or something.

I've done it in the past when I only had Delta and Charlie, they had full access to the house and yard and were perfectly fine. I wouldn't be able to do it anymore due to pack dynamics, an unsecure yard and a dog that requires medication at 7 different times each day. I don't actually have an issue with doing it though and in your situation woudn't hesitate if I knew my dog was not going to stress at being left alone.

Hype learning to leg weave with Tailwag, such a funny little dude!

Shock's tag arrived from mysilverwombat yesterday. It is nice and lightweight, time will tell how it stands up to puppy teeth!

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What sort of work are you looking to do with your dog? If it is ANKC style then you are probably best to continue at Hawkesbury or Erskine Park. If you are after proper work then someone like Alison Burrell in the Hills area could be worth trying. Sydney will be much closer for you than Scone or Singleton and I don't actually have any contact details for anyone there, have just heard that there are sheep guys there :)

We have given up, we are moving to Clarence Town in a few months and will get our own sheep!

I have a script for them to try with my girl but have been hesitant to start as I have heard mixed reviews on them. I didn't really want to buy them and find they were not any good for her. What were his side-effects out of curiosity (if you don't mind?)

Whereabouts are you? It is mostly cattle country and you have to head out towards scone or singleton for any sheep blokes willing to give lessons. We are at Port Stephens and Sydney is our closest venue for sheep work. A real shock to the system moving up here last year from near Canberra where there were a number of great 3-sheep triallers willing to give lessons.

We are more than happy to give anyone a run with our dogs who thinks that running a high-drive border collie that averages 6-7m/sec is the easy way to win prizes!!! I really miss running my Charlie sometimes, we never struggled to make masters times but I actually had a fraction of a second to work out where I wanted to place my front cross rather than just doing it and hoping for the best as I didn't have time to think out there :)

(that isn't directed at anyone on here, more at the people we hear at trials or read about on FB who hate having to run against fast 500 dogs). Like the others have said, every dog has its own challenges and there is no such thing as an easy dog! The ones who consistently place- they are the ones who have put in the effort and deserve everything they win :)

Definitely recommend Sandra Hassett for chiropractic work. Kate Millhouse (Holistic Paws) for acupuncture and possibly bowen (you would have to confirm). I believe she is also registered for chiro now but could be wrong. Louise Steinman is the physio and muscle manipulator we used for that work.

Eek!

I like how says' "thankyou" at the end - and uses the colours as commands :)

there is no way on god's earth I would even BE there - let alone try & herd sheep that is one BIG drop down .....

Love the little dog's joy and speed :)

thankyou.

I think I would be more likely to try picking up each sheep and throwing it over myself before resorting to taking a dog out there! Of course, you also don't want to lose any sheep over the side so a calm presence is also required by dog and human. A whole other world to running sheep in Aus!

I've just been sent this insane video of a pyr shep working in the mountains. It shows me just why Hype has such incredible balance, agility and a love of being up high- if the breed didn't have it they wouldn't last very long!!! Apparently Hype's grandfather was a great cattle dog but was sadly kicked over the edge by a cow one day at work

All our dogs have their name and number engraved on their collars, but the 2 with medication requirements have plastic tags from Bow Wow. They are great, easy to read and quite sturdy but unfortunately don't hold up well against puppy teeth! So Shock is getting a new aluminium one from silverwombat. I've only just ordered it so will let you know what the quality is like when it arrives, for $5.95 though there isn't much to complain about!

What I like about Bow Wow and silverwombat is that you can engrave on both sides. I needed that ability as she is on quite a bit of medication through the day and some at 8hr intervals so needed to have one side for "i need medication please take me to a vet asap" and then the other side for her dosages. Being a teacher I won't necessarily answer my phone throughout the day so safest place for her would be at the vets.

I have Chinese herbs, Zonisaminde and Potassium Bromide for my Boof. It holds him most of the time but transitioning from Summer to Winter is a struggle.

I know Pheno can impact on the Zonisamide levels (decrease them) which is a downside of using them together and why we are using the KBr instead of Pheno.

J Vet Pharmacol Ther. 2008 Jun;31(3):259-64. doi: 10.1111/j.1365-2885.2008.00955.x.

Pharmacokinetics of zonisamide and drug interaction with phenobarbital in dogs.

Orito K1, Saito M, Fukunaga K, Matsuo E, Takikawa S, Muto M, Mishima K, Egashira N, Fujiwara M.

Author information

Abstract

The purposes of the present study were to elucidate the pharmacokinetics of zonisamide, determine the presence of a drug interaction with phenobarbital, and evaluate how long any interaction lasted after discontinuation of phenobarbital in dogs. Five dogs received zonisamide (5 mg/kg, p.o. and i.v.) before and during repeated oral administration of phenobarbital (5 mg/kg, bid, for 30-35 days). Zonisamide (5 mg/kg, p.o.) was also administered 8, 10, and 12 weeks after discontinuation of phenobarbital. Blood was sampled until 24 h after each zonisamide administration and serum concentrations of zonisamide were determined. Repeated phenobarbital decreased the maximum serum concentration, area under the serum concentration vs. time curve, apparent elimination half-life, and bioavailability of zonisamide. Total clearance increased. Time to maximum serum concentration and volume distribution were not changed. The maximum serum concentration and area under the serum concentration vs. time curve of zonisamide continued to be low until 10 weeks after the discontinuation of phenobarbital. They were restored to the same serum concentration as before phenobarbital administration 12 weeks after the discontinuation of phenobarbital. These data suggested that repeated administration of a clinical dose of phenobarbital enhanced the clearance of zonisamide and the enhanced clearance lasted at least 10 weeks after the discontinuation of phenobarbital. Caution may be necessary when zonisamide is given with phenobarbital and when antiepileptic therapy is changed from phenobarbital to zonisamide.

From most people I have spoken to it seems the zoni levels need to be doubled if the dog is also on pb. It also impacts on her thyroxine dosage. She is currently being tested for the abcb1 gene as part of a research study. If she carries this mutation it will change the drugs protocol as it means she is resistant to pb and other similar drugs. Current research suggests that 40% of bcs are unfortunately. If she is resistant to it then she will be weaned off and something will need to take its place as a primary. We are trying to avoid KBr at this point as she is such an active dog, it will be a last resort.

ETA which Chinese herbs are you using?