Lhok

The NSW local government had a junior pet education system it ran for 3 years however it won't be continued this year

here's the link for you to have a look at the program

http://www.spot.nsw.gov.au/Spot_Index.asp?sec=PL

It is something I am very interested in and the only flaw I could see with the Spot program was the fact that it ran for only 15mins (no follow up lessons) and was taught in classrooms by volunteers with only a weekend's seminar as a basic knowledge.

--Lhok

Most of the information I have read about them states that they can be quite dog aggressive..

Never met one so not sure

--Lhok

Mischief - Lab kelpie cross named due to the escape artist nature she displayed getting out of her car harness the day we took her home in the car from the RSPCA my mother said that one is a lot of Mischief waiting to happen and it sorta stuck.

Hoover my TB x Clydie named after the vacuum cleaner as he has a habit of eating or as we have dubbed it Hoovering up grass on the run ( really scares the hell out of anyone who doesn't know of his habit when he's head goes down.)

Guinea Pigs: Cloudy got him on a cloudy day

Fidget he never sat still

Patches she was covered in patches

Budgie called Bluey even though she was white RIP

2 Shubunkin fish named after the video game characters Ken and Ryu from Street Fighter (my other half named them)

and my lovely fox named Basil after the BOOM BOOM comedian fox Mr. Basil Brush

--Lhok

A lot of the problem sits with the "breeder". This pup should have been micrchipped before leaving home.

Cr. Andrew you have made some good points. Maybe you could agitate to acheive what I belive is a fundamental ommission with the Microchipp Database.

My discussions with CAR reveal that when an animal is sold and the new owners put their names and the second contact in the breeder as the original details is removed.

I belive that the contactable people should be 3 (three).

1. Owner.

2. Second contact

3. Breeder

The breeder should remain there despite numerous chages of ownership, if this occurs.

;)

Wholeheartedly agree

--Lhok

I have often wondered this about Orbit. He barks at strangers and also at scary noises, but its generally because he's scared too! Generally he will bark at people, but if they try to approach him, he will run and hide. Obviously his size is a pretty good deterrant, but yeah, I have often wondered whether he would detect my genuine fear and challenge someone, or whether or not he would bolt under my bed.

I get scared in the night when I'm home alone too

Whatcha sensing Scooby!?!

Love Great danes

--Lhok

Going back to the best in breed points

So it is possible that as the only entrant of a particular breed not to get best in breed in a show?

Trying to get my head wrapped around all this is confusing

--Lhok

The Livestock part of that has me a little concerned as on the land one farmer could be running a lot of different breeds of a particular animal (example: Cattle) or have multiple different animals (example: cattle, pigs and poultry). I know farmers would whinge a lot due to the amount of paperwork they would have to do each year concerning the animals they keep when they would rather be working the land. Just looking at this as a need to cover all bases type of thing.

--Lhok

I should have also mention another draw back of a licensing system would be it couldn't only be for dogs, I mean with animal cruelty happening to more then just dogs you would have to go the whole hog and put a licensing system in place for all types of animals. This is because if the licensing system did put people off owning a dog they would only find another animal and the whole thing repeats but with another animal.

However I am interested in looking further into ideas on how to implement such a system, and the laws in which the system would operate because something has to be done and if this can create a brainstorming into how to prevent accidents like what happened to the pony, animal cruelty and animal attacks on people I would be all for it.

--Lhok

Hmm

How would you implement a license system? Would it be local, state or federal government? Who would be the ones enforcing the rules and regulations? would it be like the driving system L's then P's then full? and what about life experience? or would it be like the falconry system where you have to apprentice under someone for 3 years and then take a licensing test. What would happen if you failed it after all that time? Would certain breeds require a different license like the bird and reptile system here in Aust?

and say for example someone did lose their license and then a animal cruelty charge was placed against them and they refuse to pay the fine would jail time be an alternate?

I'm all for this if can and will stop attacks and animal cruelty cases. However I do not want even more legislation on top of the all the legislation that is currently out there (especially if it won't be/can't be heavily enforced.)

--Lhok

Maybe the answer is getting a liccence to own a pet cat or dog, like a drivers licence with a test or something - hard to police I know, but imagine for example if you had to produce a pet licence to buy puppies or kittens at the pet shop, from breeders, pound, rescue etc.

it would certainly be harder to get a pet, and no spur of the moment purchases. So you would want to be a pet owner and understand the responsibilities before you could get a licence and a pet.... . Just an idea, because you can create all the restrictions and regulations you like in punishing dumb arse loser pet owners who own problem pets - but it ain't going to fix the problem as they will ignore whatever penalty they are given.

Wouldn't it be easier to have more control who can own a pet instead of having to deal with morons who already have pets...

Some people who lose their driver's license just don't stop driving their because they have lost it...

I would imagine that just because they legally can't own a pet doesn't mean they won't try somehow it's just human nature.

--Lhok

With all the laws in the world you won't be able to legislate out sheer human stupidity and ignorance..

The dogs across the road from my parents house constantly charge the fence, escape and have bitten on many occasions. Many people have complained about the dogs however all the council has done is go down the declared dangerous dog road, the people who own the dogs say they don't care about the laws regarding keeping their dogs on their property and when someone mention that they could get fined for it they said " I love to see the council get blood out of a stone."

What and how can someone deal with that when they don't even care about the law?

So while some people might get the idea with the dangerous dog laws I fully support some people in shooting dogs out of the need to protect themselves and their loved ones be it animal or human.

--Lhok

This sort of thing just adds to the compounding issue..

If people are left to get away with this sort of thing it only serves to heighten peoples views of dangerous dogs and breed discrimination.

From what the people are reported to have said after the attack do you think they will be responsible enough to comply with the dangerous dogs legislation? When they couldn't even be responsible in the first place and keep their dogs on their own property?

I feel so horrible that the people had to go through that. I myself have seen my own horse being chased through the paddock by feral dogs it was lucky my dad was there as I was only 7.

I really feel that common sense is a dying trait that people either don't have or can't be bothered to put into practice these days

--Lhok

What was he doing riding on the footpath anyway?

--Lhok

Are you suggesting as a child he should ride on the road??

Kids should be able to ride down a footpath without losing body parts to dogs. We share our community and our dogs need to safe to walk within it.

I've always been taught that you shouldn't ride on the footpath as it is dangerous for pedestrians or if you are going to to WALK your vehicle (regardless if it is a scooter or bike) past a pedestrian. I live on a busy street the kids around where I live ride on the footpath I have seen alot of elderly people knocked over and I think that if a child who is around the 12 - 13 age can't show some common sense to not pass so closely to a dog while riding past then maybe they shouldn't allow people to ride on the footpath. Because as I said what would have happened if it was an elderly lady he knocked over? she would be in hospital maybe suffer horrible injuries all because one person didn't think it through.

--Lhok

What was he doing riding on the footpath anyway?

what would have happened if it wasn't a dog and an elderly lady with a walker, he could have knocked her over instead of having this terrible situation happen.

IMO

Both side of the problem should have had better control of their actions, the lady with the dog should have like I do with my fearful dog walk it on the side away from passing traffic on the footpath and the boy shouldn't have rode his scooter so close to an unknown dog in the first place.

Should all big dogs be muzzled because of this advent... No as I believe it was avoidable ( all assumptions based on the article)

--Lhok

Is there anywhere on this forum that a list of books has been written up?

For breeding, breeds and just for general pleasure?

Thanks

--Lhok

I get it all the time with my Georgie and it is really upsetting.

She is a sweet natured dog and she absolutely adores people, pats and cuddles. It's her smile that puts people off but there is no malice to it. She is just truly happy and showing it.

That beautiful smile wouldn't put me off... However the Crazy left eye might

--Lhok

Nice to see the RSPCA asks people not to discriminate against crossbreds and mixed bred dogs but doesn't say anything about the purebred discrimination that is around due to that BBC show . = /

--Lhok

Even if the dog isn't an attack dog or let loose against a suspect they can still be attacked while working.

I know Lo Pan you said you aren't against dogs working for law enforcement but where I live I have seen innocent drug detection dogs been kicked and harmed just for doing there job. The fact is that it is there job to do that type of work and the dogs are trained to a degree to cope with the things that happen. I would hazard a guess if they had sent a human officer the person would still have attacked them. The damage done to both could have been worse in that case then what actually happened.

Good work police dog and handler.

--Lhok

The rear dewclaws in Pyrenean Mountain Dogs and Beaucerons were knowingly bred into the dogs as the dogs with the double dewclaws were better workers in the rough, rocky hillsides in France where they originated.

--Lhok

I think the whole procedure of locating owner's of animals should have a review as you hear these types of stories lot, I know my local RSPCA shelter scans for microchips and phones the owner then leaves it at that. If the dog for what ever reason doesn't have a chip they don't really bother trying to local the owner and either sell it or pts. Surely there has to be another way, I can only go by what I know after volunteering at my local RSPCA and I believe they (well at least my local one) really do not do the best they can for the animals under their care to get them back to their owners if they are strays.

--Lhok

Ps I do know however not all rspca shelters are like mine and I do acknowledge they there are some out there that do good work in the sense they do rehome animals.

About 5 years ago a Mini Foxie escaped at 3pm on Christmas Eve. His owner searched. Someone 2 streets away said they caught him, phoned the pound, and they came and got him. Pound dogs in that area are sent to RSPCA at Dakabin. By the time the owner found out, it was too late to do anything

Owner arrived at the RSPCA at 7am on Christmas morning, banged and called and waited till lunch time. No one came.

Went back at 3pm, waited till 6. Still no one. Dogs were inside

Did the same on Boxing day, and the two following days which were holidays.

First working day, arrived at 8am Was told his dog had been held the statutory 3 days and euthed.

How fair was that? He was an older gentleman and too traumatised to complain, although he did write a letter to Pine Rivers Shire Council

RSPCA has a 24 hour line which is run at the Fairfield Shelter. Whilst I understand the stress of this gentleman and do feel sorry for him all it would have taken was a call to the RSPCA and they would have put a "hold possible match" on the dog.

The RSPCA is not perfect but in my experience they do try to give the dogs a fair go. Dogs only need to be held for 3 days but they don't get entered the first day and pts is late on the last day so in effect they are getting five days before pts happens.

I am not sure of the processes at Ipswich but it is more difficult there since you can't even notify them you have lost your dog after hours and they refer everyone to the RSPCA for both lost and found animals which is an hour's drive away.

I would imagine livestock get 7 days cause the average farmer doesn't check all their stock everyday and it would be reasonable to expect a person to miss their pet within three days, whereas a farmer may not notice stock missing for a bit longer.

My guess is that the gentleman didn't know about the hotline. How many everyday people would know something like that?

--Lhok

In regards to research I have for one been turned off a breed because I didn't like some of the breed's characteristics. I'm not knocking the dog breeds I liked before I knew better but I for one am glad I did do the pro's and con's before I made the choice to buy the dog of in this case not buy the dog because we would be both unhappy in the situation but that is just me.

It is also during my research into dog breeds that led me here ^_^

--Lhok

Most of the huskies I have seen dumped at the local RSPCA were because the owner wanted something that looked like a wolf but didn't like the howling and the shedding. Of the 10 that were dumped while I was there only 2 were dumped because the owner had difficulties with training them.

I think another important issue that some people overlook is that some potential owners choose their dogs on looks rather then temp, so what is the suggested course of preventing that?

--Lhok

I think what breed fanciers will have to decide is whether it is worth compromising on the historical signficance of certain traits, in order to keep the breed going in the future. There is no need to 'create' a generic dog as they all have different qualities but IMO some of the working breeds who are mostly going to be pets couldn't hurt to be bred towards a slightly less 'challenging' temperament.

Isn't that what dobe breeder's did a little while go when they had a lot of bad press?

I guess it didn't hurt them but the stigma is still there

--Lhok

I feel even more sorry for the pups now

Due to being seized and put in cars to be driven from Kyogle to Coffs Harbour by strange people

--Lhok