megan_

RottnBullies - I think the point that people are trying to make is that these sorts of videos do nothing to dispel the myths about pitbull owners - in fact they confirm them in many people's minds. A true pro-pit movie would show pitbulls as therapy dogs, one would be called Mr Fluffy, one owner would be a middle aged mum etc - those images would make people think "huh, didn't know they could do that" and not "here we go again, bogan who wanna show their tough dogs". The image problem that pitbulls have isn't going to go away by doing more of the same.

They don't have red noses and neither looks really powerful so I'm sure they'd be safe. That and the fact that they're so well trained I doubt they'd ever even get a second look.

Not in Vic! Many pitbull type dogs are registered as staffy x's to get around laws. That said, she looks kelpie and staffy "ish", so she should be fine. The same happens in NSW, but I assume that by having them legally registered as staffy x that they would be protected from the law? Nope. It means nothing. After all, I could register my poodle x mini schnauzer as a staffy x.

But clear rules and boundaries (no matter what the rules are) do often work for dogs with "problems". I know my mini schnauzer is less pushy and less anxious when she has some very clear rules, and that includes sleeping in her crate. As a general rule my dogs are very well behaved so they don't break many rules (so it is easy for them to think that there are no rules, if that makes sense). Creating some "fake" rules can help teach them that you provide structure and take care of things. I don't buy the whole "if the dog sleeps with you it will think it is boss" crap, but I do think clear rules and boundaries that you can enforce every single day do make the world of difference to an anxious dog. The sleeping off the bed thing was suggested by a very highly respected DOL behaviourist! I do agree that the OP should seek professional advice. Mini schnauzers are cute and lovely but they use their cuteness for evil too!

Not in Vic! Many pitbull type dogs are registered as staffy x's to get around laws. That said, she looks kelpie and staffy "ish", so she should be fine.

I'm pretty sure I ordered from them recently and got it in a timely fashion. Check with your post office - they don't leave stuff at the door for priceless pet deliveries.

Kelpie x staffy? Best advice for your sister is to socialise the dog, train it, keep it well walked and mentally exercised (less likely to bother the neighbours then) and have very secure fencing with locks on all fences (so no one can let the dog out and then it gets picked up by the council).

If you're trying to teach real heeling, then I'd suggest two things: i) take it really, really slow. Most people at training classes want to see fast progress, so trainers squish heeling into a few weeks training. Don't worry if your boy takes much longer than others to get it. Getting it right slowly is better than getting something half-baked quickly. Setting the foundations is the key. ii) You need to build value for the position. Make being by your side, focused on you the best place in the world - the thing he values most. This can be done a number of ways - it all depends on what motivates your dog. I went to a seminar with Uta Bindel (an obendience world champion who trains malinios (sp) so she knows her stuff). She taught me two foundation exercises: - build flexibility in your dog. Basically she did lots of luring with him, getting him to do figure of 8's through my legs etc. - build value for the position. lure your dog into a sit in exactly the right position. Reward (using a reward marker to show him what you're rewarding. I use "good".) Release. Repeat a few times. End the session. Do a few short sessions and then, try getting him into the position and don't release him straight away. Reward marker and reward. Then he'll sit there a bit confused and eventually look at you with a "what is going on?". Reward marker that very instant. Reward. Repeat a few sessions etc. Eventually he'll get he position and realise that focusing on you = I get rewards. Then, and only then, you start adding steps. Uta advised to take a few months to build these solid foundations! I hope it all makes sense! If you're just trying to go for a nice walk without your boy pulling you over, have you tried the "dea tree" (ie you pull, I stand still and give you a no-reward marker? when you stop pulling I tell you how good you are and reward you) method?

Are you trying to teach heeling (which is a very formal thing) or loose leash walking (which "normal" people often call heeling, but it isn't what training people call heeling)? What methods have been taught to you to try and stop him pulling on the leash? If it is the formal "heel" with the dog walking perfectly straight, looking at you, turns exactly when you turn etc then all the people that I've seen do this WELL don't use a check chain to teach it. I've also seen many people teach loose leash walking without a check chain. As Agility Dogs says it is all in the timing if you go down the check chain path. My timing is always crap and I'd land up correcting the dog when they were doing well, so it isn't a path I'd personally pursue.

Back seat buddies don't have any openings for restraints though. I got a great cover from petstock for $38.

Yes - when something says "pro-pit" the last thing I'd expect to see is aggression. I think non-pit loving people would be very put off by dog fighting images - I know I just think of how my dogs wouldn't stand a chance and I'd probably end up dead trying to defend them. Please add a warning at the very least.

They are a restricted breed . . . and it is prohibited to breed them or import them into the country. There is currently no restriction on breeding crosses though and no management restrictions? Not saying there should be

Yip - managing a DA dog is very hard - even if you obey the law and only go to leashed areas you still have to deal with off leash dogs.

As far as I can see they have linked to a different forum not here? D'oh! I thought I recognized the user name as a doler though. Ignore me. Carry on.

Maybe my wording was a bit strong, but people who aren't normally DOL people would be reading these threads: http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/enough-bullpit.-destroy-these-murderous-mutts/

yeah but it is a public forum and at least one media outlet (The Punch, part of news ltd) has linked to dogzonline saying that people are defending child killing dogs. A wholly inaccurate assertion and just what I'd expect from that style of journalism. No one in their right minds could defend what this dog did. Some of us just happen to think that its owner should bear the bulk of the responsiblitity. The dog will pay with its life (and this must be done). The owner - lets see what he has to say about where he got the dog from, how he raised it and managed it. I agree. I was responding to B-Q's post that people looking at the link she posted were part of the normal DOL crew - given the publicity that we've gotten she can't make that assumption.

yeah but it is a public forum and at least one media outlet (The Punch, part of news ltd) has linked to dogzonline saying that people are defending child killing dogs.

Genetics does play a big part in dog behaviour to. It is a dangerous myth that if you socialise and train a dog it will be 100% safe. Some dogs require constant management to keep them out of trouble. If genetics weren't important then there would be no problem with breeding aggressive dogs, right?

No one has been defending the dog or the owner - the owner is scum who deserves to be jailed. People here are looking for ways to prevent dog attacks like this to happen. If I thought a ban on pitbulls would prevent this tragedy from ever happening again I'd support it 100% - I don't owners "rights" to own any breed they want. However, time and time again it has been shown that bans don't work. Reading your post it seems you think there should only be tough penalities for owners of certain breeds? I believe there should be tough penalties for any owner of a dangerous dog that gets out. The way to solve this problem? * Enforce the law, including owners of labs, BC's, SWF who think they are above the law and walk their dogs off leash, let themn roam etc * Make owners criminally liable for their dog's behaviour - regardless of breed.

Most dogs don't kill because someone runs. I'd run too if a dog was attacking me.

I'd love to help. Given that their house was burnt down in a fire, something practical like money (to help pay for the funeral etc :-() might be best?

Lets not make this thread about who did the best job in the QLD case. This thread is about a child that is dead.

Pet shop puppies would also stop being produced if people stopped buying them - no law change required (and I do actually want the law change). The power is in the hands of the consumer, we tend to forget that. I'm sure some kind-hearted soul thought they were saving a dog when they bought my Lucy's pups. But they were giving money to a monster who kept on breeding her while people bought the pups. Only when he stopped making money on mini schnauzers and the margins weren't there for him did he give up. I don't think there is much value in debating semantics of what "rescue" is, but to think that you've done a good thing by buying a dog from a pet shop (and giving $ to a puppy farmer) then it isn't "rescue" under any definition of the word.

That is really sick. I agree!!!! That is a really disturbing statement Try another scenario. The dog's owner has been robbed a couple times. He, rightly or wrongly, blames 'blackfellas'. Any time a dark skinned person goes by and the dog hits the fence, he tells the dog 'good boy', and he laughs when the local refugee community shows terror at his dog. The dog has been out on a few pig hunts, and has poor bite inhibition. Oops the gate got left open. If this is what happened, in my opinion the guy is guilty of both a hate crime AND murder (ok, involuntary manslaughter). Can't blame the dog. The above is just fiction, but, I think, more plausible than your scenario. PF is right . . . the owner is the problem. There are instances of dogs killing children, but it's almost always a child wandering into the dog's yard; occasionally some horrid result of not properly introducing the dog to the baby. I think you'll have a hard time finding even a single incidence in the dog attack statistics of a dog going into a neighbour's home, killing a child, and harming other people. That is absolutely unforgivable. Far more likely scenario is that the dog was never socialised with people of different races. I come from South Africa. Before the end of apartheid, most dogs belonging to white people would get very aggressive towards black people - no one I knew ever trained their dog to do this. The inverse was true too.

Asked by whom? Yes - any dog can attack, however we must acknowledge that the consequences of a large, powerful dog attacking are far more severe than a smaller dog, so breed isn't totally irrelevant (not saying I support banning breeds etc, but I think it is false logic to say that breed has nothing to do with it).