Tapua
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Posts posted by Tapua
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I knew a man who had blindness and guide dogs and he always trained his own dogs. They were trained, then at 12 months or 18 months were sent to the Guide Dog Association for assessment and follow up and certification.
While it is not the conventional way it works, sometimes for people who have had guide dogs their whole life, they are very suitable for training their own dogs - even if they are blind
Yup that is how he got his other dogs certified I asked him this afternoon - he also has Guide Dog trainers who he keeps in contact with and his partner has ADA dog. So it is disabilities united in his household.
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Thanks guys but as you may appreciate I am trying to link the trainer with Michael not tell the world what Michael is doing since its only Michael's and trainers business. Hense the preference for the people interested to PM me. :D
Having said that looks like I have a trainer interested in discussing with Michael his options which is great the ball is in their court now.
I am just the go between. -
Hi Tapua,
As you have mentioned, only 50% of guide dog puppies actually make it through the training. The puppy raising staff can often tell at a fairly young age ( around 4 months) which pups may be more suitable but even then, some pups do fail even in the last few days of training. I would be interested to know why he doesn't want to deal with Guide Dogs NSW?
As others have said there is a big difference between an assistance dog and a guide dog, with fewer dogs being suited to the latter. I also think assistance dog training is something that may be easier to teach, guide dog training is fairly specifc and A LOT depends on the temperament of the dog.
If he is so keen to go down this path (his choice i suppose), then I do know of a sydney based dog trainer who has experience with guide dog training in the UK and USA. She is always willing to give me advice with my trainee guide dog pup. She might be willing to help and go see him very occiasonally (she is in sydney) and perhaps phone/email contact would be ok? She is involved with training assistance dogs for private people i think. If it is a guide dog he is specifically after, I'm not even sure if she would agree, due to potnetial litigation etc, but anyway PM me if you want details.
I do hope everything works out with this puppy though.
PS. I love your labs they are so gorgeous!!!
Thanks for that I will PM you. Yup love my Labs ( + Croftie Dog and the geriatric Kelpie Dixie) they are a big part of our life.
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I think this guy will be hard pressed to find a professional trainer to help him.
On top of everything else, I think there would be the danger of a 'libellous suit" if Michael is actually asking for someone to help train a dog "for guide/assistance" purposes. What I mean by that is regardless of Michael's intent, the trainer he seeks could be held liable (if not by Michael then potentially by someone else) because the trainer took on the job knowing that Michael wants a guide or an assistance dog (this is why I asked which one of these he actually wants and it can make a great difference) and that his life/safety may rely on the training of that dog.
NB: I'm not a lawyer and consequently my concerns regards to the above might be held to be ill-founded, but they are concerns to be overcome all the same and may be part of the reason why Michael finds it difficult to find someone to help him train up his own dog outside of the usual (and good) formal and expert channels. Even if the legal side of things can be satisfied, there would still be the immense pressure on the trainer who would know that regardless of Michael's own assurances of "it's ok", they would still carry the burden of (at least a sense of) responsibility should the worst happen and the dog fails its duty in some catastrophic way. So this would also add up to another reason why Michael might find it difficult to find a trainer to assist him and is also another reason why clarification of exactly what he wants/expects could be helpful. If he wants a dog to be able to perform skills that would assist him but would not necessarily be life dependant and he can explain/clarify this, then it might make it easier for him to find a trainer who would be (a) capable and (b) comfortable enough to help him.
I fully appreciate your concern - anyone interested would have to meet Michael and decide for themselves.
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True Poodlefan I agree - it will be difficult. All I can do is put it out there and see who is around and willing to help.
Catherine B; Wow now thats what I mean - people with dissabilities can do amazing things and it involved tremendous trust and confidence in himself and the dog to enter in a trial and pass.
I have to learn to walk again a couple of years after the surgery - my border-collie X Croftie Dog CD helped me to walk straight. Because I wanted to trail and he was such a good dog to train, I had to conentrate on not swinging my left leg out and hit him. The surgery damaged the nerves and they removed the 1/2 of the front of the anterior tibia & all the muscles were reconstucted differently. So to do it meant many hours of training for me. We competed at Bathurst Royal a few years ago and got third, won the ring in Mudgee in August of the same year and with a score of 196 tiitled Croftie in Canberra on his 5th trial last year.
I successfully gained CCD last month in Bathurst with our Lab Tua Tahi - 3 trail 3 passes!
Plus because I could walk I felt confident I could return to work and drive etc - I have been fully employed in AOD for the last 5 years - thanks to Croftie dog I would never have tried! Of course my doctors said it would never happen!
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As for having to be accredited as a service/guide dog I dont know how he managed it but obviously he has. God forbid a request for assitance becomes political.
I think people are more concerned for him than trying to make any kind of political point - i.e., concerned that he might shell out a lot of hours & money training the dog, then discover that the dog isn't eligible to work as a guide dog anyway due to him perhaps not having gone through the proper/usual channels to get a guide dog.
Erny/Staranais :D I am sorry if the post came across wrong it just that there is a tendencey in DOL respondee's to get off track on the tpoic.
I appreciate how odd this request is and all I am asking for is if thre is someone in the area interested in working with Michael. The person should meet him and decide wether this is something they want to do. Michael is very aware that 50% of guide dogs/assistance dogs dont make it and claims he would prefer to do this his way. There will be times another person to help brainstorm a problem would help. He is not on his own he is married and has family around.
I get the feeling he has had alot of people try to tell him what to do and he hasnt been heard very well.
I know when I was in a wheel-chair and lived on my own for 12 months it was like people suddenly thought I was deaf or stupid and assummed what I needed without asking me - very well intentioned but very frustrating trying to get through to them I didnt need sympathy I needed some milk for a cuppa because I couldnt get out of the building in a wheelchair. And my dog wasnt a good at carrying the milk carton
But noooo people wanted to talk about the cancer - presume I was going to die, how terrible it was being in a wheelchair.... blah blah ... and still they didnt bring the bloody milk!!
all I needed was the bloody milk How he does this really isnt my business but to have someone prepared to work with him nearby would be good if it is achievable.
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Doesn't the dog need to be certified by an association to be able to get the access to public areas that a Guide Dog has?
Yes.
How can Michael train his dog to (eg) not cross at a red light or when a car is coming, when Michael himself can't see the red light or car coming to be able to set up for it? This would be just one of the many many things the dog needs training for and the training needs to be intensive and extensive.
When you are entrusting your (and other people's) life to a dog, I would certainly not recommend a DIY job.
All I am asking is if there is someone in his area interested in assisting. I have presumed a professional would be better able to work with Michael than the average local obedience club trainers. I also thought that this forum might have access to professional trainers who may be interested. He has obviously done this before, he has greater insight into what he needs in a guide/assitance dog than most trainers so it may be a good opportunity to learn if one was open to doing so.
As for having to be accredited as a service/guide dog I dont know how he managed it but obviously he has. God forbid a request for assitance becomes political.
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OK this is a bit different. A young man called Michael lives in Shortland nears Wallsend-Newcastle. He is blind and his aging X-bred dog is also going blind. Still servicable but needs to retire in the next 18 months 2 years. Michael has always trained his own guide dog and has purchased one of my baby Labs to train up as a replacement. He is intelligent, competant and open to asking for assitance if he needs it. Is there any professional trainers in the Newcastle area willing to get to know Michael and work with him?
Things such as early conditoning and socialisation plus later the training needed to mold this pup into his guide dog. I didnt go there with why he doesnt go to the various Guide Dog Associations but apparently a number of Blind people choose not to.
Baby Lab 'Juke' is only 8 days old but it would be good to have someone be prepared to sit down with Michael and talk through ideas. Emails are not always a good option because his 'reading-talking' doenst alway work. He needs someone nearby he can talk to. I am contactable of course but I am in Woodstock near Cowra and he is in Shortland, Newcastle.
The litter have commenced Early Neurological Stimulation and his pup will be walking on a lead and kmow some basic commands by the time he gets him. He needs someone around to continue the process and work with Micheal to continue the conditioning. Please PM me is you are interested or have any questions.
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Only just saw this
- I thrown in a bit too! -
Hey Everyone
If you have nothing to do or would like to partake in free drinks and nibblies come to Club Menai for the launch of a great childrens/general interest book about the developement of Aussie farm 4 Kids. On at the Club Menai between 5.30 & 7pm. Bring your kids too. This book would make a lovely Xmas present for kids and lovers of Labradors everywhere.
(Plus we bred the ratbag pup Matilda in the book too.)
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I enjoyed it too, never thought much of Martin Clunes before but I like him now.
One thing I noticed is that I'm fairly certain the dingoes didn't all have white tips on their tails. I thought this was a way the authorities decided if it was in fact a dingo. I couldn't see any white on the Fraser Island dingoes and they're supposedly the most pure. So is a dingo a dingo if it doesn't have a white tip on its tail?
Dingo's vary in colour Alpine/ Costal/ inland/desert. The white tip on the tail or more than likely on the feet is common though they can be anything from a fox like red, yellow or black and tan. With or without a white blaze. They have much bigger feet and more teeth than a domestic dog.
I had the unique pleasure of helping an aboriginal anthropologist man his wife & kids, condition their Dingo to live with their family as a pup when I lived in Cowra. The owner was finishing off his thesis there before he moved to the back of Cooma on acreage. he wanted advice to help the pup- then 8 weeks to not stress in town. So we went on a process of socialising, walking, noise, kids, cars - she was the most well known and well adjusted critter I have enver met. They fully understood that to do this meant that the dog was going to be very strongly bonded to them for life and could never be rehomed under any circumstances.
They were totally committed to Tahlia and she still lives with them now. She is 10 years old. 'Training' a dingo was a unique experience (BTW owning Dingos in NSW is legal ) She still recognises me and we are great mates. Dingos are definately different - and body language is a big thing with them. She now lives in the alpine region with her human and dingo family on 3000acres.
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Awwww....congratulations Tapua
As another milk substitute, I was going to suggest Wombaroo as I know many breeders have tried that with success
I guess you don't need to worry about it now! 
So tell me about Wambaroo -Ive never heard of it!
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8 Baby labs born yesterday 5 chocolate (3 males 2 females) 3 blacks (1 male 2 females) if there is a decent black girl we will keep a black girl. Mum and pup growing well. Mum loves the goats milk!
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Tapua, where abouts are you?
Check your local phone book and you may find a dairy goat farm in your area, there are 2 within 30 minutes drive of where I live. Milk is very cheap and I buy frozen.
I am in Woodstock 24km from Cowra - i work in Canowindra - so thats an option to look too. Of course i should have looked in the phone book too - er der should have thought of that myself.
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I haven't been able to get it.
If I have to supplement, I've found that Animalac is much better than Divetalac and Biolac
I have tried all of the above and my guy do not do well on it. hense the hunt for the goats milk.
I'm hunting for you too. I haven't been able to come up with anything local. Although Google did tell me there was a Cowra Farmers market, I'm not sure if they actually run one
but it might be worth looking into. Bathurst has a market too, so there may be an opportunity to find someone there.ETA: If i can find any , I'll grab it and freeze it for you and we can meet or I'll leave it at the vets
Cowra Farmers Market, 3rd Saturday 6342 9225 Cowra Showground Cowra Don;t know how old the info is or if they still exist
Wow thanks for the effort - Keep me posted - I am on puppy watch at the moment - mother lab is getting comfortable but we are a couple of days away as yet. I have started Mia - the mum on the milk and she seems to like it.
Here is the expectant mother is her most comfortable position.
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It will pay to check what is in the lmb/kid replacer.Some of these are not based on milk but tallow and such products, actual milk solids are minimal where as biolac is based on powdered milk.
Yes I have check out the contents and it is milk based 24% protien 25% fat and all the vitamin/mineral stuff needed. I have cheked out Woolies and Coles and they so have the liquid in supply. I tried the made up powder on all my dogs today and they seem to like it - so we shall see how things go.
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I haven't been able to get it.
If I have to supplement, I've found that Animalac is much better than Divetalac and Biolac
I have tried all of the above and my guy do not do well on it. hense the hunt for the goats milk.
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My local Woolies has both fresh and tetra pack (long life) goats milk.
Look where the soy milks are.Thanks Poodlefan
Has anyone used Palastart goat/kid milk replacer? Its a powdered formula used for kid goats & lambs. I wonder if it would be OK and I just want to check is anyone has used it on puppies as a milk replacer rather than cows milk or fresh goats milk. It comes in a 10kg bag and costs about $50.00.
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Hi
I have a litter due this weekend - not that I am expecting anything to go wrong but I was considering getting in some goats milk and natural yoghurt - can goats milk be bought in powdered for and from where? I live in Central West NSW near Cowra - any suggestions? I saw a grat article on DOL on feeding orphans. Again I dont expect anything to go wrong but you never know. My other Lab had a litter of 12 last time - so supplimenting was important - I found Biolac and Divetolac poor substitutes. Mia has 8 or 9 pups according to xrays. I havent check Woolies out yet - can I get stuff there?
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Well I will be ticking that box for next Saturday - something to watch whilst probably whelping a litter!!!!!
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Hey Everyone
Have a look at this attachment about a book launch its a lovely story about Ann Harris and her Labrador dog Aussie and Sharnie the miniature pony and a menagerie of critters she takes to schools, nursing homes and hospitals as visiting petting farm. The other Labrador ring in is Matilda (we bred Matilda).
It is on this Thursday 5-530 free drinks and nibblies well worth going to if you have the time on a Thursday afternoon. Read the attached article. Aussie Farm 4 Kids.
Contact Ann for a copy of the book it is released this week week!!!!!
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Put mum on a behavioural contract ... just kidding
I think it is timing - my Labs are disturbingly attracted by food and dool when presented with it - great look when in the show ring a great big golly hanging off my baby whilst the judge is going over him.
My guys are very sensitive to voice correction and would turn away and return is I went UT!!! or something distinctive to distract them on their journey for food - as soon as they responded to the voice correction my voice would revert to praise and a food reward when they were close to me.
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A big broad ribbon for 1st,2nd 3rd is cool, money is great, petrol money is better IMHO, good quality dry food is good, but lots of people are fussy about what they feed a gift voucher with something like Petbarn is cool too. Love the idea of a toy.
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Hi Wuffle
I am not clear which breed you have but this is just my experience. I have owned and trained working dogs and currently Labradors and this is my esperience of that ages particularly with bitches.
1: Regardless of being neutered or entire Ive found most bitches go a bit vague or hypersensitive between 6 and 12 months. Its like my confident puppy has dissapeared - everything I taught them has been erased from memory. Not easily explained with being neutered or not. I am only guessing as to why.
2: I learnt I had to chill and stop trying to make the pup perform for me. I realised my expectation to get them to perform in any formal obedience like behaviour counter-productive. This also applied to the show ring and pushing during this timhas turned some potentially great show dogs into jelly. I somehow managed to communicate my dissapointment and frustration. It put the pup off.
3: Instead for a few months I socialised and generalised the commands - I didnt go to any training classes for a few months - I re-created an association with the pup and me where she didnt have to perform to get rewarded. And that included play learning. Other than general play I ignored her. She was just part of and belong to the gang. Within a few months she was asking me to do something constructive with her.
4: Then in small and short session - no longer than 5 minutes at a time re-created the healing/obedience style of training by this stage she was nearly 12 months and ready to learn again.
I am not sure why this happens but I think the pup is trying to question what you are on about and too much attention creates stress. I also think she was trying to fit in with the gang in the yrd and want clear where she fitted in. I also think my leadership was coming across as too threatening. So I just back off - what she learnt as a youngster will come back I just had to be patient.
I hope a behaviouralist can explain why this happens better than me but thats my take on the 6-12 month maturing process.
Professional Trainer Needed For Blind Person
in Training / Obedience / Dog Sports
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Takes all kinds to make the world spin ... there are just a few I'd like to push off it though :D Just kiddin folks!