LizT

Do you have any Lavender oil? If so put a few drops with water in a bottle atomiser and lightly mist in the room.

I can buy Rescue Remedy on Monday as I am taking pups & mum to vet for checkup, I live over 80klm from town so DAP or Rescue is not easy to find. I do have Canine Tranquil Tabs, I had previously for a stressy dog, should I try them?

May not be the best for the pups if passed on in her milk.

Rescue Remedy.

Lovely story and you so did the right thing. Which in itself is so hard these days as some people are too quick to judge if you hold on to an animal for more than an hour without ringing every vet and AH service available to report you have found a dog, they think you are trying to perloin it!

Good on you for keeping her safe.

What are the conditions the dogs from shelters will go into pet shops? What are the requirements when selling them etc ?

If they are going to stay in pet shops for extended periods until they are sold or sold without educating the potential owners or screening the owners there's no great stuff there. If dogs shouldnt be sold in pet shops then no dogs should be sold in pet shops and individuals can go to shelters to get their dogs just as well as they can go to a pet shop and just as well as individuals can go to a breeder .Id like a definition on commercial breeding or is it just allowing people to breed like mad as long as they dont sell to pet shops in that state?

Steve, these are questions that can only be answered by looking at all the relevent documents. It's not going to get covered in a "Public Info release" statement is it?

And yes, of course people can breed "willy nilly" and the public can still buy from them...but having the public go direct to large scale breeders and seeing their facilities isn't really something most Puppy Mill type establishments want is it..and with good reason..if Joe Public went to get a puppy and saw 80+ dogs in crates, neglected and living in cramp squalid conditions it wouldn't be good for business would it! Of course they can still sell on-line..but this too is something that needs to be addressed...a can of worms indeed...but it has to start somewhere...what's the alternative..if we are not sure do nothing? I don't think so. A big city like L.A. is a great place to start, let's see what they learn over the next 3 years.

Here's the orginal info I read.

City officials in Los Angeles will consider a proposed ordinance that would put a three-year ban on the sale of commercially bred dogs, cat and rabbits in pet stores this month. The main goal of the ordinance is to help with overcrowding in L.A. animal shelters and reduce the number of animals that those shelters have to euthanize.

Shelters in Lost Angeles took in more than 57,000 animals last year. Of the 35,405 dogs they took in 25 percent were euthanized. There isn’t an adoption deadline at city shelters, but limited space makes it difficult for animals to stay at the shelters long. Some animals are lucky to be at the shelter 30 days before they are put down.

Los Angeles wouldn’t be the first city to ban the sale of commercially bred pets, but a ban in Los Angeles could have a significant impact. “Because of the population of Los Angeles, and because of the important role Los Angeles plays culturally on the national stage, a ban would have reverberations nationally,” said Nick Nassuet, a special investigator for Last Chance for Animals based in Los Angeles.

Paul Koretz is the City Councilman behind the proposed ordinance and his ultimate goal is for the city of Los Angeles to have no-kill shelters. “That’s going to take a tremendous amount of work and many steps. This is just one step in that direction,” Koretz said. The ordinance would permit businesses to sell dogs, cats or rabbits but only if they are from an animal shelter or a nonprofit humane organization that is registered with the city’s Department of Animal Services.

Some pet industry representatives believe the ban will only hurt those who are already responsible pet stores. “Anybody that would engage in substandard breeding already doesn’t follow the rules,” said Michael Canning, president of the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council based in Washington D.C. Canning fears the ban will cause people to resort to the internet or other unregulated venues to sell puppies. Canning also is concerned that there is no evidence that those who want a purebred pet will go to an animal shelter if they can’t get one from a pet store.

However, Shannon von Roemer, owner of a dog boutique in Los Angeles doesn’t see how humane breeders will be affected. “This isn’t about going to a reputable breeder and getting the dog of your choice, this is about trying to stop people who just want a pet from going to a pet shop and creating the demand for puppy mills, “ von Roemer said. “If people want a certain dog and really make the conscious effort of finding a reputable breeder, they deserve getting that dog. If it’s not about a particular breed and just about getting a cute puppy, there’s no reason not to adopt a rescue.” Councilman Koretz agrees that most people who shop at a pet store are looking for a cute dog, not trying to find a perfect purebred animal.

Koretz is confident that the ordinance will pass and it will lead to more adoptions at Los Angeles city shelters. If so Los Angeles example could lead to many other cities doing the same.

From what I have read previously about this proposal (I will try to find the link) the idea is to ban all live animals sold in Pet Shops for 3 YEARS. The Pet Shops are advised to work in conjunction with Shelters etc. to facilitate a better adoption situation for the city.

It is also stated that all those who wish to buy directly from breeders should do so. The emphasis being that people who want a puppy should put more thought into it and put their nanes down on a Breeders list and be prepared to wait if the need be, rather than just buying a cute puppy..becuase it is a cute puppy. The Councilors who first put forward the proposal have nothing against Registered Breeders (this includes "DD's" breeders)...only that buying a puppy whouldn't be an "impulse thing" but something that is looked into with thought and planning.

Can't see anything wrong with that myself.

Brace Lead:

Coupler:

Nuff said :cool:

I honestly don't know why people pay attention to the stupid comments of ignorant strangers. Hubby needs to grow a thicker skin.

I think it is an involuntary delayed reaction. :)

As much as I hate to say it.....Maybe this is a good thing?

He will pretty much be living in a fishbowl. Every time he eyeballs this dog he will be watched and judged (rightly so) so he really can't afford to put a foot wrong.

His very high profile could really help to change what is culture to some.

Just thinking out loud really.

True. He will indeed be watched...very, very closely...by many, many people. Most of whom are none to pleased with him. Wouldn't be him for quids...but brought on by himself and deserved.

I have been using Black Hawk for nearly a year now and for the most part no problems and was happy with it.

But now I notice ALL my dogs coats are not as shiny and glossy as they usually are. It took a while but I'm not impressed with their coats right now. There could well be other factors involved, but I have to say that diet is one that come to mind immediately as one of the possible causes, as well as seasonal changes perhaps.

I'm going to switch back to previously used brands and see what happens.

UPDATE*

Sad to say that although initially very pleased with Black Hawk, my Cavaliers have not done well on it, with continual bouts of upset tummies and poor coat condition.

After swithing back to a previously used brand with a Probiotic they are all well and coats are now back in great condition, shiny and glossy again. Just doesn't agree with them. This is just MY OWN personal experience.

Nothing to add except a piece of info... it's called a brace lead.

Not a coupler.

Keep abusive replies to no more than ten lines please folks.

Ummm...which post has the 10+ lines of abuse?

Yes. This would make a huge impact in a big city with lots of rich and influencial people, particularly if they see a decrease in the numbers of impulse buying and more thought and care go into gettng a dog from either a Rescue or Registered Breeder.

The age of the person is irrelevant. I've met rude pre-schoolers and rude elderly people. I have also probably been a bit "short" at times too. Some may even call it rude. Assumptions do this to people! Really some people will break their necks jumping to conclusions though. Egg on that "older persons" face I guess.

I remember a similar situation with an older neighbour I had when I was in my 20's. I had a horse on adgistment and decided it would be fun to ride him to our house, untack him, put him in the side of the house where I made a kind of yard..and ride him along the Mullum Mullum Creek that backed onto our house(which is now Eastlink).

Our old neighbour took one look at the horse from his balcony and had conniptions (he already hated my dogs and stood looking into our yard regularly and made them bark and then complained about their barking...I fixed this by taking off my bikini top when sunbaking :laugh: ) anyway I digress...he told me I had four days...FOUR DAYS to find a proper paddock for the horse or he would call the Local Council and report me for keeping a horse in my backyard! I said that was very nice of him to give me four days but I think I will just take him back to his paddock later that day if he didn't mind. Some people.

After a 12-2 vote Wednesday by the Los Angleles City Council, LA is poised to become the largest US city to ban the sale of commercially bred pets. Because the vote to ban the sale of dogs, cats and rabbits purchased by pet stores from commercial breeders was not unanimous, a second vote on the ordinance will be held next week. That vote will only need a simple majority to confirm the Council’s decision on the ban.

The proposed ban is meant to diminish the market for puppy and kitten mill pets and, at the same time, encourage shops to carry adoptable pets from shelters. Under the proposed law, pet stores will be able to obtain animals from the city’s animal shelters or from humane societies registered with the city’s Department of Animal Services. Individuals will be allowed to purchase pets directly from breeders.The penalty for a first time violation of the ban would be $250, with the fine going up to $1,000 for a third strike. Some pet shop owners are vocally opposed to the ban.

The proposed city ordinance is sponsored by City Councilman Paul Koretz, a friend to animals who includes a message to adopt and a link to the city’s Department of Animal Services at his official webpage. The two no votes yesterday came from Councilmen Mitchell Englander and Bill Rosendahl. Englander said the ordinance will be costly to enforce and bad for business and the local economy. Englander withdrew support when Koretz declined to remove rabbits from the list of pets affected by the ban.

Let's hope this gets a ball rolling.

The working dogs people marvel at at sheep dog trials aren't just pulled off the farm & plonked in a competition. They are specifically trained to do the exercises required at the trials.

Some have never even done a genuine days ''work'' in their lives.

They are, for all intents & purposes, show dogs.

But no serious sheep dog handler is going to waste time on "specifically" training dogs that don't have heaps of natural ability.

I can't speak for three sheep trialling as I'm not involved in that and it appears to have become more of an exhibition than real work, but I can assure that the majority of yard dogs earn their keep on farms during the week and then go trialling at weekends.

Yep, real work is competition practice. I don't know anyone who just keeps kelpies for trials without working them as well.

Ummm..possibly a city/suburban/semi rural enthusiast? :)

Highly unlikely though.

LizT, I certainly understand your point and there has to be some learning involved - like all things including basic stuff like socialization. At the end of the day it's up to breeders and buyers and the degree of variation and definition of 'working' is huge. Some people want a high drive working Lab to excel at retrieving trials but prefer the field bred ESS for hunting. I met a lady in the US who was trying to breed dual purpose ESS. Her best example at the hunt test was not a patch on the working ESS and Cockers in my opinion but she clearly likes that style of dog and has a market for them. Not everyone likes the same style of dog. I don't put much stock in performance titles unless I've seen the dog in action anyway.

Ahhh...that's the beauty of the dog...you might choose a breed because of a certain characteristic, and their parents may well excel at the chosen disipline we have grand plans and aspirations for our new puppy, but at the end of the day they are all individuals and we must love them for who they are ...quirks and all...or we simply have failed them.

Gotta say..this is a fun thread to follow! :)

What function would a pug be judged on... speed eating?

Given it's purpose has always been that of a companion and lap dog, I think a temperament test would be paramount...try taking that bowl of food away? What happens? Count fingers....all still there?....dog passes test. :D

So I've been thinking. And excuse my naive thread, as I'm not as well versed in the nuiances of pure breeding as most of you here, but I've been wondering this: Why are purebreds judged on form rather than function?

Not all breeds are judged on form. Purebred working BC's & Kelpies are judged purely on function.

Unless of course your Purebred working BC & Kelpie happen to be in a ANKC Show Ring line up! :)

There are some things you can teach to an extent - my Dalmatian is a case in point. With my field-bred ESS I can teach her to retrieve to hand, to not run the bank, to run straight, to pick up game in order but I can't teach her to have an insatiable desire to hunt, quarter and find the game under any conditions. It doesn't make her an easy dog to take for leisurely walk though! Whilst I can refine her marking ability nothing replaces that which comes naturally to her. I've never had to teach her to go from hyperdrive to asleep in 30 seconds either thank goodness! And I know her breeder puts a lot of thought into structure, easy coat, tight eyes etc.

Yes The Spotted Devil, while all dogs have the capacity to learn the basics at various levels it makes no sense and is even quite unfair to choose the wrong breed for the wrong task.

If function is indeed to be tested it truly must be breed specific AND be an instinctive test and not based on learnt skills. EG. Whilst all may have some basic instincts to go on not evey Border Collie is going to have a correct working knowledge about herding sheep unless first taught.

Also good function could purely be a result of excellent training and handling skills and have little to do with the breeding and form of the animal. There are many good show handlers out there who excel at hiding faults in their dogs by the use of their superior handling skills....while most good Judges worth their salt can see through this easily, not every Judge is a good Judge. Also there are many good trainers out there who will get more out of any given dog than some people ever could, just based on their ability and knowlege as dog trainers and handlers.

I think it's definitely true that a good trainer will get more out of a dog but at the end of the day you can only bring out in a dog what is already there genetically.

True. You wouldn't bother trying with a poor animal that is a hideous mess, but if you considered the said faults minimal...then you work on the pros. The 'pefect" dog has yet to be found.

Yes, but if we are talking about a dog actually working I don't agree it can do it well "purely" because of good training. The dog has to have a correct enough temperament, drive, nerve etc relevant to the work it needs to do. And a working dog needs to be structurally sound or it could tire faster/lack endurance or be more prone to injury.

Agree. But I'm sure there are plenty of dogs out there who work hard every day for their living who could have numerous minimal faults pointed out if presented before a Judge. The emphasis being on minimal.

Also good function could purely be a result of excellent training and handling skills and have little to do with the breeding and form of the animal. There are many good show handlers out there who excel at hiding faults in their dogs by the use of their superior handling skills....while most good Judges worth their salt can see through this easily, not every Judge is a good Judge. Also there are many good trainers out there who will get more out of any given dog than some people ever could, just based on their ability and knowlege as dog trainers and handlers.

I think it's definitely true that a good trainer will get more out of a dog but at the end of the day you can only bring out in a dog what is already there genetically.

True. You wouldn't bother trying with a poor animal that is a hideous mess, but if you considered the said faults minimal...then you work on the pros. The 'pefect" dog has yet to be found.

If he really does live in a humpy and hasn't enough food to eat he probably has no means to pay the fine. Maybe he will end up in jail working it off. He'd be stoked, food and accommodation for a month or so at the governments expense - you beauty.

Mores likely they will garnish his welfare payments, which they probably already do.

I feel violated. That is disgusting.

What really gets me, is why didnt someone call a doctor, why the papers?

Surely this cannot in any shape or form be classed as in the public interest.

My sole thought but couldnt figure how to word , and maybe not well anyway, where in this did anyone even consider the interests of the children concerned. Their lives will be impacted by this photo of their mother to a degree that could lead to bullying of the most nasty kind.

We see here how nasty things can get here just on a forum.

Here we are being told about it in another country.

When I first saw I simply didnt want to know.

tried to think well its the norm in some places and wouldnt attact a second glance. BUT to be a mum and involve your babies, well young children, to the teasing, the embarrassment, the humiliation of "I SAW YOUR MUM in the paper"........that is who the real victums are here.

If the mother could not see that , where where the reporters minds?

Apparently this story came out in 2010...so why is it resurfacing now? I guess the Publication involved is one of those WEIRDO kind of papers that run WIERDO type stories so maybe that's the delay factor???

Maybe she read this from a Pug Website.

Purpose and Origin

The Pugs primary purpose has always been exclusively for the companionship and amusement of their people. Their origin dates hundreds of years before the time of Christ when the very wealthy Chinese bred them for companions and status. An elderly, long-time breeder in England told me a tale many years ago. She said the Pug was so extremely pampered by the ancient Chinese that Pug puppies were often nursed by human wet nurses so the adored Pug bitches would not get out of shape nursing babies. If this is true, it certainly would account for the large majority of our Pug mothers who have less than adequate maternal skills and instincts! Their lifestyle, since the beginning, tallies a lot of generations of Pugs who have lived to simply endure pampering and adoration! All of this coddling and over-indulging have resulted (or perhaps they started out that way) in a breed that enjoys giving pleasure and amusement to their people - as long as they feel they are being treated properly!

Can't have done the baby pugs any good.

What a relief for those people!