melzawelza

"The average family ... they simply won't be able to afford a dog."

Petshop dogs cost more than probably any other place to buy a dog!

"The public want an eight-week-old pup, they want it for their kids. Shelters do not sell eight-week-old pups."

What? Yes they do!

Exactly! Plus, it wouldn't hurt some families to consider some older dogs with known temperaments... then it isn't a crap shoot!

The whole article is a ridiculous farce that is to be expected from the people who profit from this industry. Cries of 'the sky is falling' abound, yet so many pet shops already make a living without buying puppies from farmers like old mate Banksia Park. Not to mention all the countries that banned pet shop puppy sales long ago.

If you're set on continuing to sell animals, then source them from the local animal shelter where they're going out already vetworked and helping to increase live release rates.

Kittens, especially - there are more than enough cute kittens in shelters to go around all the pet shops.

Oh he is the cutest and she loved the look of him, but it wasn't an ideal match as he does like to have a bit of a chat when owners get home or at wildlife in the yard. Not a nuisance barker but probably too much for the crusty old neighbours. Because of the distance there wouldn't be able to be a meet & great and it'd be costly for Tweety to send him to Sydney sight unseen with that potentially being an issue. He's gorgeous though, I'm sure he'll find a lovely home, particularly as he's so spritely for his age!

She's now thinking she may wait until she finishes her thesis in 6 months before adopting, so that she can settle in the newbie without any distractions at all. Watch this space! haha

Love your attitude, Tweety. What a lucky boy he is ending up with you.

Good news is she isn't perturbed by his age at all and thinks he is very cute! She had a couple more questions to see if he might be suitable for them:

- Is he much of a barker? She lives in a townhouse type situation with narky neighbours so trying to avoid a dog that barks a lot.

- How is his toilet training/bladder control? They don't have a yard but have the dogs inside with them and they have access to a large balcony. They take the dogs down to the grass outside the property for toilet breaks morning/afternoon/evening. Would he be able to handle that sort of set up?

- She wants to make sure that he and the current Greyhound get along but of course distance might be an issue. Would there be a trial period where she can see how they settle in together seeing as they won't be able to do a meet & greet beforehand?

Thanks Tweety - got them! He's so cute. What a dignified old fella. I've sent the pics on and will let you know what she says. Only thing I'm thinking is she may be conscious due to his age of the possibility of losing another dog so soon after their last Grey. I think they're still a little broken up after their last guy and the way he left them.

As soon as I have an update I'll let you know. :)

I most certainly do.

Is that before, or after he dived into the puddle??? :)

I don't know how to upload photos here. Can you send me your email address either on here or privately, and I will send you some photos accordingly.

He's a dear chap. Very spritely. Even his surrender notes discuss his love for children. He's the perfect little house-monster for a home with some kids. But I also get that some families don't want to commit to the seniors & that's ok too.

He is not currently in Sydney as he's doing his rehab in the country, so you would need to be mindful of this. But he can easily be brought back to Sydney at our cost.

He sounds absolutely delightful! The more photos the better, including puddles :laugh:

If you could shoot them to [email protected] that would be fantastic and I'll send them on to her and pass on what you've said about his personality. Is he much of a barker at all? She lives in a townhouse type setup with snarky neighbours close-by, so one thing that was important to her was not too barky!

Would 11 years be too old?

I have a new one in care, ready in about 2-3 weeks time. Active, happy, kind, adores children. Has previously been a very much loved family member until elderly owner went into care.

Listed as a foxie x maltese but looks more silky terrier.

Am happy for the dog to be placed into a 'good' and loving home with the right family.

That's lovely, Tweety. Thank you. I can definitely check with her and see if she's interested. Do you have any pictures I could send to her?

Tweety, that sounds like a lovely little dog. The smaller breeds carry age well. Mine's nearly 15 years & still going strong.

The GAP greyhounds are well tested with little dogs & so much else. I can believe the family love their addition. My small dog was a 'tester' for GAP & she loved those greys, too.

Agreed that the littlies carry their age so well! Her new Grey is absolutely gorgeous and he's the spitting image of their last one that passed away, who was named 'Prince'. Her daughter started calling the new boy Prince,too, and it's stuck now. So sweet.

Hi guys,

Team Dog is currently assisting a lovely family and we are looking for a cute, small dog that they can add to their home.

The owner is an absolutely brilliant home for any dog. Unfortunately her previous Greyhound was attacked by another dog in late 2013 and subsequently was euthanised a month later due to complications after numerous surgeries and then complications. Her 7yo daughter witnessed the attack and was extremely affected by it for some time after. She was absolutely devastated and couldn't imagine ever having another dog and donated all of the bedding, food, collars/leads etc to a greyhound rescue shortly after he passed away.

Fast forward to over a year later and the two of them felt like they have healed enough to add another dog to the family again. The owner is a single mum and studying law full time, so funds are limited at this time while she is studying. She'll be extremely financially flush once she has finished her studies (High distinction student).

We've helped her with getting the basic dog supplies which can be so costly to buy all at once, and a couple of months ago she adopted another lovely greyhound from Gap that they both adore.

She is on the look out to also add a small cute dog to the family as well, as her daughter loves sweet little dogs (especially Dachsy-looking dogs), and they feel they can provide a very loving home to a second dog.

They've paid the adoption fee for the Grey and also have had to purchase some other things needed for him (As we weren't able to source everything needed), so we are hoping to direct them towards a rescue that would be willing to do a low cost or free adoption as another adoption fee is a bit of a stretch for them at the moment.

I can vouch for what a wonderful home this would be for any dog - She and her daughter just adored their previous grey and he was given all the care, love, exercise and socialisation you could want for a dog. The new grey is the same.

She is happy to take on an older dog and was even looking at a 7yo dog a few months ago that didn't work out.

If your group has a dog that could suit and you're willing to work with the owner on costs please let me know.

Please no comments on 'if you can't afford an adoption fee, you can't afford a dog'. If you have that belief that is fine but no need to discuss in here. When their dog was attacked she pulled together the thousands needed to treat him, and put herself into debt to do so. He never went without. Any dog adopted will be the same.

She is located in the Eastern Suburbs Sydney.

ETA: More info I just remembered - she lives in a townhouse type situation with snarky neighbours close-by so needing a dog that isn't excessively barky. She's also keen on a dog that is fairly reliably toilet trained.

assess them as individuals

Which is what I posted earlier as a possible solution.

Maybe it comes down to rigorous testing of individual greys .

Greys coming from racing are already being assessed as individuals though. I don't see why anything would need to change based on this expose as far as the rehoming of the dogs are concerned.

All dogs should be assessed as individuals without the connotations or assumptions of breed, past experiences or training.

Dogs rescued from fight busts in the US are now often given the chance to be assessed as individuals by behaviour experts for suitability of rehabilitation (if needed) and rehoming. It doesn't matter what they've been trained to do or how many fights they've been in - what matters is their individual behaviour and how it manifests AWAY from the context in which they are used to performing certain behaviours.

As an example, I remember Donna from BADRAP explaining that when they attended a shelter to do assessments on a number of dogs rescued from a bust, the shelter staff asked if they could watch and learn. T

They set up a barricade between the 15-20 staff and where the dogs would be assessed to attempt to lessen any stress from their presence.

Donna & Tim found that each dog they brought out seemed to 'switch on' as soon as they brought them out. Their behaviour changed and they seemed to be becoming stressed and started looking around, as if looking for another dog.

They suddenly realised that the barricade and 'audience' sitting watching was extremely similar to the experiences they would have had during matches, and the dogs were anticipating another dog to appear and a fight as soon as they found themselves in that situation.

They took it all away and re tested the dogs without that situational cue and they were very different, many in fact being quite social with the other dogs and many others showing promise with some behavioural guidance. (The majority of these dogs are suitable for rehoming and many are rehomed with other dogs or animals. Some don't even need rehab/training!). They learned that in that specific context they were expected to (and encouraged to) show aggression towards the other dog, and that other dog was likely to show aggression to them. Take them away from that and so many of them just aren't interested in it all.

Dogs don't generalise well and context is everything. A Greyhound that has killed a small animal on a mechanical lure in a very specific circumstances may not show huge prey drive in other contexts and certainly may not show it to small animals of their own species or human beings.

It's not that hard - assess them as individuals just like the dogfighting victims are assessed as individuals. It doesn't matter if they've been 'blooded' or not, just like it doesn't matter how many fights the dogs rescued have been in or whether they've been in fights at all. What matters is their current behaviour in various contexts that they may experience as pet dogs.

Thankyou

No probs :)

Agree with Ironklad.

Also Lavoro (my choice if I was after a papered Amstaff. Much more terrier than bull type and a big focus on health and working ability) & Rufdiamonz.

What work do Amstaffs do?

They can be great at various dog sports, particularly things like weight pull, dock diving, etc.

Lee from Lavoro does weight pull with his dogs from memory.

I just had a really good read of the Lavoro Amstaffs web site, and I am very impressed.

http://lavoro.webs.com/

Their dogs look like performance bred American Pit Bull terriers, and that is a good thing. Their take on this breeds history is very realistic, and if I was in looking for an AmStaff puppy, they'd be on the short list, probably at the top. I like the emphasis they have for performance and for health scores.

I love the lean athletic working ability of their dogs. I am probably not the best person to get info from about AmStaffs as I am much more an American Pit Bull terrier person, but sheet! these are fine dogs.

ricey

That's why I like them too! Really nice dogs and the breeder, Lee, has his priorities right in his breeding.

I owe Hobbes. 10 years ago, when I joined DOL, all I knew about pitbulls was the common idea they were born savage. You used to post about Hobbes & how he was a trusted part of your family, with photos of him with children. That gave me pause for thought... Then I met a lost pitbull girl in real life. And I had the confidence to give her the benefit of the doubt. Yep, she proved to be sensible, affectionate & biddable We caught her & found her owners. Thanks, Hobbes

Love this. Love all your posts, Mita.

Agree with Ironklad.

Also Lavoro (my choice if I was after a papered Amstaff. Much more terrier than bull type and a big focus on health and working ability) & Rufdiamonz.

It depends what's motivating the aggression. For a lot of game bred pits they want to fight because it's fun. For my boy that was his motivator too, as is the desire for terriers to kill vermin. For all those dogs, with each rep of that experience the behaviour gets reinforced and therefore stronger. I never said that aggression was solely genetic, but there certainly is a genetic component whether it's motivated by fear or fun.

Rottweilers are similar in many ways, temperament and health-wise. Whatever your decision, choose your breeder and lines carefully.

Genetics absolutely have a part to play and a lot of aggression can be based in genetics, but current environment and management can modify that, too. You only have to look at the fight bust dogs rescued in the USA and then rehomed into homes often with other dogs and pets. You can't get more game than dogs bred, trained and used in dog fighting, yet so many of them go on to socialise with other dogs beautifully with a bit of training and guidance.

The 'many' game bred pits that go on to pet homes are the exception, not the rule.

They were the exception ten years ago when it was commonplace for all dogs rescued from fight busts to be euthanasied without assessment as it was assumed that they would not be safe for rehoming. The Michael Vick case paved the way for dogs to actually be assessed as individuals and the majority of the dogs from big busts these days are given that opportunity and a huge amount of them are suitable for rehoming. Sadly there are still many States and counties that do not give the dogs the opportunity for assessment as individuals.

One of the biggest busts in the last few years was the #367 dogs:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/25/367-dogs-rescued-where-are-they-now-update_n_6213876.html

I had the pleasure of meeting some of these dogs when I was in the States last year. A friend of mine that runs a foster/playgroup program at a shelter in Sacramento has had about 18 of these dogs in care since they were seized while the owner waits for a conviction. She runs playgroups with them. I also met some of Michael Vick's lovely dogs, too.

The euthanasia cases are typically the exception to the rule when the dogs are given the chance to be assessed as individuals.

I do agree with you though that there's a difference in skill level needed in controlling a 20kg APBT with issues compared to a 50kg Mastiff with issues.

Good boy Hobbes! Still want to see a picture of the grand old man :)

It depends what's motivating the aggression. For a lot of game bred pits they want to fight because it's fun. For my boy that was his motivator too, as is the desire for terriers to kill vermin. For all those dogs, with each rep of that experience the behaviour gets reinforced and therefore stronger. I never said that aggression was solely genetic, but there certainly is a genetic component whether it's motivated by fear or fun.

Rottweilers are similar in many ways, temperament and health-wise. Whatever your decision, choose your breeder and lines carefully.

Genetics absolutely have a part to play and a lot of aggression can be based in genetics, but current environment and management can modify that, too. You only have to look at the fight bust dogs rescued in the USA and then rehomed into homes often with other dogs and pets. You can't get more game than dogs bred, trained and used in dog fighting, yet so many of them go on to socialise with other dogs beautifully with a bit of training and guidance.

Mel, what you said just reminded me of something. I was at a dog park once and there was a kelpie doing the kelpie stalking chase thing towards my 6kg poodle x Saxon. Saxon's pretty good at reading dogs and he was worried about this dog, as was I, Saxon ran to me with the kelpie chasing. I picked Saxon up and held him in my arms, the kelpie jumped and got my thumb with its teeth, caused probably a 1.5 x .5 cm flap of skin to lift. It bled quite a lot but no harm real harm done. What would have happened if it had grabbed Saxon instead? I don't know.

To me this incident could be explained as a dog was trying to attack my dog, I intervened and was bitten to the point of drawing blood. Should the kelpie be PTS?

Like you say, it's not black and white in these incidents but it's so hard to know the actual facts.

Yep, totally not black and white, and different to a dog attacking a person outright, too. (sorry to hear that happened, it must have been really shitty )

It's hard to say how he would have reacted if you didn't pick Saxon up either, a lot of dogs are set off by the lifting of a dog up above their heads if they're already a bit stimulated (not having a go by the way, if I had a small dog I reckon I'd be doing the same, because if you hadn't then maybe it would have been even worse!).

Ah, Theo. Hated by anyone worth anything in the Amstaff world.

He doesn't health test his dogs and there's severe hip dysplasia and other issues in his lines, too.

Maybe see if the breeder is open to a vasectomy or ovary-sparing spey instead of full desexing at that age? That way the dog is rendered infertile but still keeps its hormones.

I wish the article discussed the level of injury sustained by the victim dog. In my experience investigating dog attacks there are a LOT of incidents where dogs get in scuffles that have a lot of bite inhibition and come out unscathed, but the owners put their hands literally in the dogs mouths and end up having minor injuries like the ones described. Destruction in that case would seem pretty overkill to me - a nuisance, menacing or dangerous dog declaration should suffice and place some controls on the owner and the dog.

If the victim dog was killed, then that changes things completely.

I had a good laugh. It's clearly a joke/parody... I honestly can't see how anyone could be upset or offended by it.

So pleased for you guys :)

I would recommend Pet Resorts Australia in Dural (http://www.petresortsaustralia.com/locations/pet-resorts-dural-location/). It's an old facility but the staff are lovely and kind to the dogs, and it's kept clean and hygienic. They'll let your two board together.

Was just about to recommend the same!

So awesome :laugh: