raineth

Hi Jazi bear

do you mind telling us what the 'Animal Studies' course is? is it for high school, TAFE, uni? Its a bit hard for people here to give the best advise without knowing the 'level' you're aiming for

I haven't actually bought one; but I thought "2 Hounds" have sizes for giants. And they are seriously lovely

2 hounds design

Oh Horts

I think Lagotto Romgnolo or Golden Retriever

They would have to wait about two years before they could take a Dane jogging :D

Yeah just talk to them about it! You might be worried about nothing!

I wasn't aware that my dog was barking when we went out. My neighbours told me in a polite way and I was very grateful to them for doing so I wouldn't have known it was happening otherwise!

Maybe your beighbours are aware of it - but they need someone to politely complain to them so that they actually do something about it

Some people are like that

As a breeder, you can do every test under the sun, and something still goes wrong. Sometimes it's hereditary, and sometimes, it simply comes under the "s##t happens category". I once bought a beautiful, well bred pup from healthy lines, only to have it develop some terribly complicated and expensive medical condition. A friend bred a pup and sold it, at 10 months, the spine collapsed, the pup was pts.

Dogs who have low hip scores may still produce HD affected pups. Dogs which are clear of LP may still produce pups with LP.

Dogs with wonderful hearts may produce a pup with a murmur.

There can be no guarantees of lifelong good health with any living thing, no matter how much care both breeder and owner take.

"S##t happens" does happen in a percentage of dogs.

IMHO, it is how the owner, and the breeder handle the problem which is important.

And breeders need to learn that "s##t happens" in THEIR lines too, and make allowances for it. Most owners want support and understanding, and breeders should be prepared to offer it.

It is how breeders handle questions and problems which sets them apart. Not be defensive, be accepting, read and understand the evidence, and talk to the buyer about the problems, try to come to some mutually acceptable solution, and provide ongoing support.

Some breeders are not good communicators, some just don't want to face problems.

I'd also like to say to buyers - keep up some sort of contact with the breeder. An email occasionally, a photo, so if there is a problem, you have some sort of communication open with the breeder. I don't expect my puppy buyers to be emailing me weekly, but if there is a problem when the dog is 2, its easier for me to deal with if I have had some contact with the buyer, and some knowledge of the pup as he grows.

raineth

This breeder guarantees against genetic defects. She also did not tell me the truth about other problems that had come up in her lines.

Very sad, raineth. What did the breeder do to honour the genetic guarantee? Was it in writing?

Bails, have x-rays and scores been done? Do you have a prognosis? It may be, with suitable management that the dog will be ok. Vet I know was taking dogs with HD and putting them onto graduated exercise to strengthen the muscles and ligaments. That treatment was successful with most dogs, particularly young, growing dogs.

I've been very fortunate with my breeders, most of them have been absolute gems. I know the last couple would come good if there was anything wrong with the dogs they sold me. We email and talk often, and they share knowledge, wisdom and advice with me.

I aspire to be like them.

I really agree with what you said Jed.

My Breeder was very sympathetic when I talked to her on the phone yet she also denied that he could have a condition like that as her lines just didn't have that sort of thing in them. Then later I found out that wasn't true.

The breeder did not do anything to honour the genetic guarantee.

The bit about genetic guarantee was written down but only in the 'puppy notice' on DOL. Susbsequent litters she has still displayed the 'guaranteed free from genetic fault' bit. I can't remember what the exact wording was and I can't find it as she doesn't have a litter at the moment.

But someone who is familiar with our situation told me that it wouldn't cover our situation as there is no genetic test for vertebral malformations. I think it was just one of those nifty advertisements that gave me a false sense of security - but in reality meant nothing.

Edited because of confusing typos

When we advised our breeder of her diagnosis, they were not very sympathic and seemed to take it personally. They did not provide us with any advice as to what to do or even show any empathy......

Has anyone else had any experiences like this?

Yes I have.

I'd still only buy from a registered breeder. But I no longer assume that being registered, or being successful in the show ring, by itself means much in terms of ongoing interest in the health of their stock. Not sure what the answer is but I think initiatives like the Master Dog Breeders Association is a start, and personal recommendations as to who to buy a puppy from are also important.

I'm in the same boat and have the same thoughts as Diva.

This has been the situation with me too.

I spent a lot of time finding a breeder who I thought was very good.

My dog, who I utterly adored, had allergies, a heart murmur, one displastic hip, and a vertebra that was compressing his spinal cord. I had numerous tests done, and was told that he had maybe six motnths to live. We ended up having him operated on at a Specialist facility at a university. Unfortunately during the operation he had a stroke. He was 14 months old. We spent another week trying everything to save him but it became obvious that there was nothing that would get him through.

I kept the breeder informed the whole time, and she even had the specialist's mobile number so she could ask him questions. The specialist informed me that his vertebral problem would have been present from birth. But she never called him.

I was told both parents had been hipscored with good results. But I don't know if this is true as stupidly I did not ask for evidence. This breeder guarantees against genetic defects. She also did not tell me the truth about other problems that had come up in her lines.

As he was my first (and so far only) purebred dog it has been hard to move on from. It is very hard to trust breeders now.

But there really are fantastic breeders out there. It can just be really hard to find them!

I'm really sorry your dog has HD and that you are not getting the support you would expect from a good breeder.

awww just lovely

the pictures of the two of them together like that look awesome especially

Well I have seen such huge improvements in the last few days :D

I think I can put it down to two things:

1. Having this online conversation made me analyse the situation much more closely than I had been. Digby had learned a trick. He would walk nicely beside me and then all of a sudden pull like a bull (usually to get to a tree first). I couldn't stop the momentum of this sudden pull and therefore he would get to the tree - thus he was rewarded for pulling. Even though I would take him away from the tree straight away when he did this - It was obviously rewarding enough. I am more aware of this trick and can now subvert it I make a change of direction to make sure he is focused on me and rewarding him with food treats for not playing out his trick.

2. K9 mentioned that wanting to be in front is due to competition to be the first to see, sniff and pee. Woohoo! this was an awesome bit of info for me -as I just hadn't quite understood it like that.

Now Digby only gets to sniff and pee when given permission to. Which he has to earn by walking nicely and looking at me for permission then I release him to sniff/pee. Then I put him straight back by my side.

Ah! But here is a mystery for you all. I dont drive and catch a taxi when I do my grocery shopping. When the taxi pulls up outside my house my two start their welcome home scream. This is before I have gotten out of the car or even spoken (so they dont hear me) But, should a car pull up that I'm not in they dont care and make no noise at all. They know my friends cars so can tell the difference between them (and often greet them too) but a taxi is an unfamiliar car to them so how do they know? It isn't that they know I'm already home because sometimes I have managed to return without them knowing....

if you're not at home, how do you know they don't bark at other cars/taxis that pull up in front of your house?

does the OP have a chi or two looking at your sig

I would be careful to get a giant breed with such a small breed as I think your Chis could get hurt accidentally - just something to think about.

Danes are not particularly sensible puppies

As for Danes bloat is only one aspect of a myriad of health problems they get. I would suggest you look into all of them before you make a decision. Certain lines are riddled with allergy problems and the breed is also prone to HD, DCM, and thyroid problems etc.

It is also no easy thing to find an ethical Dane breeder... one that does all the health tests and is honest about problems in there lines.

Having said that my Dane was the dog love of my life and I can't imagine ever loving another dog as much as I love him, and I only had him for just over a year.

He crossed the bridge just over six months ago and I still think about him all day. He was so loving and so perfect with my kids, and he loved nothing better than to be with you. He had this gentle and optimistic spirit in which he loved every living thing (on walks he loved to 'visit' the cows and horses, and say hello to all the cats). Although when he became quite sick he did suffer badly from anxiety.

Its ok K9 I'm only talking about the urge to get infront and the pulling - he's not anxious or stressed in that situation he is very excited - and distracted as you suggested above

THe corrections I am talking about are stopping immediately when he gets in front of my leg and turning him around - so its o.k I'm not beating him with a stick or anything!

He doesn't pull when we wals (stalk) towards another dog. I haven't corrected him for stalking

that's a great point Sas about constant corrections. Mostly they are not working! Yeah the same corrections that work fine when its just the two of us (or three of us when I walk the kids to school) but they just don't mean much to him when he is caught up in the competition of being first

I am using rewards too. And when I can keep him focused he does ok - then he will notice the lab infront and we go back to corrections again.

I'm going to go and find some info on training with distractions today and start on that.

thanks for the reply Steve,

K9: I havent seen your dog but I would guess that he has not been trained under distraction to walk on a loose leash, he knows when it is just you and him but it sounds like distractions may have been just lumped in on a dog that is only in the foundation level of training. So I would be not walking with another dog just in front unless you want to train, then it will be about applying distraction in controlled measures and remaining in control of your dog.

O.k that makes a lot of sense. Yeah we are definitely at foundation level! Although I have been steadily working on things with Digby, and I am pleased with his progress We have a long way to go.

So part of the reason that the techniques that I used for teaching him to walk on lead nicely doesn't work in the presence of other dogs is because he is too distracted and too busy competing with the labrador.

I'll take things back to basics with him then and try to reduce the distraction. I might start by just making it very short.

K9: No one can really tell you why this is happening withut seeing it happen, depending on his history, social structure etc, he could be quite comfortable and has learned this is the way we do it, or he could be crouching in fear or his breed history could mean he is gentically inclinded to behave this way, say if he was of a herding breed for example.

In any case, it sort of sounds like when walking up to meet people, you may be looking at him to see what he is going to do, this isnt ideal as it puts him in the lead position.

Ok I'll make sure that I am not looking at him! I guess I am guilty of looking at him when he does that! Because its so strange!

Something Digby has taught me is to always have a very confident posture , especially in the presence of anything different. I'll be conscious to make sure I am maintaining it in this situation

I'll see if I can get some footage!

As far as I can see he doesn't have any herding breed in him. Unfortunately I really don't know anything about his history; apart from obvious things:

that he has been neglected (for attention and stimulation)

that he has been mistreated.

I do know that he has been attacked by other dogs. He has the scars from it.

K9: Head Collars do give additional leverage, they also come with some risk to the dog and I personally dont find them to be a suitable training tool, we dont ever recommend them at K9 Pro, thats not to say that people have not gained results with them.

I have done a fair bit of testing in the last few months with some of the No pull harnesses, the test results are not complete just yet and they would never be recommended as a "training tool", but for the people with little skill, timing and co ordination, they can be of benefit.

I don't think I'll go down the harness road. I feel that I have been sufficiently enlightened to know how to proceed now! Thank you

oh I just wanted to add that with the stalking thing he is not actually crawling along the ground; it looks just like a panther stalking prey, if you know what I mean!

With the trying to be in-front, it's not uncommon, it's important that you put your foot down here though as he is trying to get ahead of you and probably the other dog.

How our dogs behave in the pressence of other dogs is always interesting, Leila would always try on these types of behaviours when we brought home new Foster dogs.

I have read about the head down thing but for the life of me I can't remember whether it was lack of confidence or submission or even an bad behaviour so would love to hear from someone who can answer this one!

Yeah that's why I did switch to the Head collar as I was worried about it becoming a habit. It is easier for me to manage when in the head collar.

When I walk a bit infront of the labrador Digby is content and will happily walk by my side again

Sometimes I will walk just infront to have a break from continuously correcting him.

Am I rewarding him by doing that?

I have a large, approximately 3 year old rescue dog which we adopted in January. His name is Digby.

I have a couple of queeries about his behaviour.

I have taught him to walk on a loose lead beside me when we go for walks - and he does this nicely on command unless we are walking with another dog!!! and then he is so determined to be in front! None of the techniques I used to teach him to walk nicely beside me when we are walking alone, seem to help at all in this situation.

About three nights a week I walk with my friend and her labrador. Digby thinks this is a really wonderful and enjoyable thing. But the pulling is so bad (and he weighs 50 kgs) that the last few times I resorted to using a Head collar which has helped a lot. But I know Halti's are a very contraversial thing.

So I would like to know what is going on - why does he seem to have a desperate urge to be in front in that situation?

And what would people suggest I do to fix it?

my second queery:

When we are out on a walk and we come across another dog and are walking towards the other dog, Digby starts to stalk (kind of like a panther he crouches and creeps forward). When we get to the other dog he stops this and says hello in a friendly way, tail gently wagging and doind the usual sniffs

So I want to know why he does this stalking? Some people find it scary.

I would like to add that I or his foster carer have never seen him behave in a dog aggressive way. Thought I'd mention that incase its relevant ;)

Turkish my great dane has a great nature and loves being around people, I can play with him and rub his belly and all that but as soon as I scratch his back ie. dig the nails in along the spine, not hard though, he runs off and is very stand offish for a while. After doing it he wont let me near him, if I sit next to him he will move away, so if I put him out side for five or so minutes he is fine. He is the same when I try to use a brush on him.

Anyone have any idea's why he doesn't like it or what I can do to make it enjoyable to brush hime. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.

Hi Bevo

Firstly, are you 100% sure that he is not actually sore there?

If he's not sore, but just doesn't like it for some reason; I would suggest that you run your hand along a little bit of his back then immediately give him a nice tasty treat and praise. SLowly increase the amount you are stroking his back, feed treats and praise - make it something he looks forward to

Go very slowly though, as you are trying to change his thinking and meotional response. I would suggest you do it in very short sessions every day. THen move on to doing it with a brush.

Also make sure you are not giving him treats or praise for showing fearful behaviour Make sure you ignore any fearful behaviour from him

And go and visit the Dane thread, and introduce you and your dane:

the dane thread

In terms of pet or show homes - I think breeders spending that much money on his stud fee will be hoping to produce a lot of show quality, not pet quality pups.

Just a thought

hehehe! cute

BooBooBear,

that does sound very difficult. I think people have already posted fabulous suggestions. I thought I might post a couple that are more for the human side of the problem.

Sounds like you have trouble ignoring the barking because it is such a harsh sound, and also because you are (maybe) worried about your neighbours.

So for you I suggest ear plugs. You will still be able to hear him, but the sound won't be as harsh to your ears.

And I suggest maybe you drop a note to all your neighbours just saying that you are working on reducing the barking.

I'm just hoping that those two suggestions will reduce the temptation for you to eventually let him inside after 20 minutes of barking (which ofcourse just teaches him to bark persistently!)

With pics like Andy, James & Digby, no wonder people love the big boofies.

awww shucks

our big boofies are all gorgeous aren't they :D

I have a rescue Boofer

His name is Digby, and he is 50 kgs.

He eats about 800 grams of kibble per day. So a 15 kilogram bag lasts just over three weeks. Being premium you're looking at about $35 per week give or take. He also gets some fresh meat from the butchers but I find that doesn't really increase the cost that much.

Now I can't remember the specifics for how much I pay for advantage, and worming, and annual heart worm jab. Someone else will have to remember that!

ETA the last worming cost $19

like Shmurps, I haven't used it for doggie purposes.

But...

when Little man's aim wasn't to good (if you know what I mean). We used simple green to clean up the floor and it completely eliminated the urine smell

Hi Tugg,

I think it mostly sounds good.

But there are a couple of things:

First of all I wouldn't bother with the 'shh' Caesar style or not!

This is because ANY attention acts as a reward especially in the situation where she is in (confined on her own in the laundry).

Also often Caesar methods only work for Caesar

When my Dane was a pup. I worked on the principle that any attention is rewarding and I ended up with the most incredibly well behaved house puppy! He would lie on his bed unless told to get off it; and hardly chewed on anything he wasn't meant to! Anyway that is just to illustrate the power of your attention.

The other thing I would consider is that you work up to a 9:00 sleep in. It just might be asking a little too much of a very energetic pup. You said that during the week she is normally walked early in the morning. So she probably all excited and geared up for expending some energy as that is what happens 5/7 days. But then all of a sudden 2/7 days she's expected to sleep when she would normally be doing something she loves and expending energy So to go from a 6 a.m wake up to a 9 am wake up might be a bit too much to expect at this stage!

1. Wait until she stops, then escort her outside to do her business.

2. Once she is finished I'll then lead her back into the laundry along with a toy or two for her to play with should she not wish to go back to sleep.

4. Upon waking I will then feed her/let her out/play with her etc.

all that above gets a big from me