Mrs Rusty Bucket

Aidan and Kavik You're right about going and finding the herding instructor - that's what I meant by "another trip up the hill" because that's where she is - in "The (Adelaide) Hills". And rewarding with more herding is definitely the best re-inforcer when we're herding. It's just she and I get a bit confused about what we're supposed to be doing, and lessons will help. And while she's very receptive to anything I say, she tends to stop completely, so - last lesson - definitely better when I kept my mouth shut and let the instructor do all the talking. I'm fine herding sheep without a (very excited) dog. Sigh. I think for me - is figuring out what payment I need to do when, ie this morning, she was fine with being released to go play again with the other dogs at the park. Didn't want a treat. Corvus How do you chain behaviours together if you always pay for each one?

I think some owners punish their dogs for growling at other dogs or children, and those dogs learn not to give a warning growl when they are uncomfortable about a situation. So they will just go from uncomfortable to chomp. I know some owners are aware that their dogs do this so they remind you to keep clear of their dog. Sometimes the dog lets me know by doing other signs of discomfort ie trying to get away of its own accord. If the dog is going behind the owner instead of towards me and my dog, I assume it's not friendly or interested in a doggy greeting or a pat. I don't know if there was anything "random" (do you mean unpredictable) about the malamute attack. My dog finds Malamutes play way too rough. They've got super thick coats and if they only play with other malamutes, they don't learn to adjust for human skin or dogs with less coat. However I saw the injuries described in this case and I think it would have hurt even another malamute ie it was way worse than rough play. And I would agree with the lack of socialisation and training or management. There is a dog aggressive dog that is no longer welcome at our local dog oval, it started as a gorgeous playful Golden Retriever puppy and got ignored on the oval by the owner, no management of it's behaviour at all. She was offered top level training, and did not take it up. And then her dog starts attacking other dogs over food or playmates or toys and does not read the "I submit you can have it signs", just goes beserk. I watched her come in and drag her dog off another dog, so the fight looked over, and then instead of putting her dog on lead, she lets it go - and the mauling started again... Can't even call it a fight because the other dog was not defending itself.

yes and if the stick is not at least 3 metres long and weighs about the same as the dog, it's not interesting enough to play with... reply came back with this one which is listed with dogs sa (where I got the contact details) but not the SBT club - I guess the $20 for a listing there isn't worth while to them but there are a few staffies in the christmas photos that look like my brother's dog ie the tan ones. And she did win a fast food eating contest but not recently. She's about 9 or 10 yo now. ISHIROSS Staffordshire Bull Terrier Address: Myrtle Bank SA 5064 Contact: Phone: 8379 3448 Email: [email protected] If they get an amstaff it must come with papers - to avoid the anti pitbull legislation.

Hi KHM Start here http://www.sbtcsa.org.au/ And I will email my brother and ask him where he got his, but he did make a huge and concerted effort to socialise it and train it to be good with kids. When it has a big stick though, it's dangerous like Laurel and Hardy with a ladder.

It's raining. She's pretending to sleep on the office dog bed...

vickie, those pesky jumps will sneak up behind you...

Most metal spike type tethers probably wouldn't stay in sand. You might want to look at getting some sand pegs - or even a soft sided crate. I found a crate really helpful when I needed two hands to set up the tent, or prepare food. And dog bed / mat that rolls up, so dog doesn't need to take over mine when we're sleeping. I also got tick tablets and a puller because we were staying in a bad paralysis tick area. The tick tablets need to be feed ahead of time and during and maybe for a week after. PS if it's not too hot, I sometimes use the car as a crate.

I stayed at cousin's farm after the calves had been trucked away, and the cows carried on all night. If you won't eat meat because you're concerned about animal welfare, you should cut dairy for the same reason.

Terranik Congrats on entering... I'm having fun figuring out how to join SACA so I'm eligible to compete but as a pair we're not quite ready yet. go the mock trials... So, I've fallen over a few times umpiring hockey - same deal - can't look where you're going and watch the play. And sometimes the ground just grabs you by the heel and won't let go. So I reckon, it can be a little bit like horse riding, if you never fall over (or off), you're not running fast enough.

maybe we could start a thread on how to stuff up an agility run (handler errors)... Ie try not to crash into a jump either... Ie the balance between "keep your eyes on the dog" and "look where you're going".

Yes, but when I say "good dog" she's always here... and yet if I offer her a treat she won't take it when sheep are there. I really need to take her back up the hill and try again. Does anyone know how you find out if your dog eats ducks without losing a duck? I know she likes chasing them. Just not sure what happens if she actually catches up.

Maybe the thing about theory and practice is more like Given some results (from practice) - one makes a theory about why they come about - and then one designs a practical way of testing the theory. Eg you map movement of bright objects in the sky, you come up with a theory about why they move the way they do, then you test the theory by trying to predict where the objects will move to. Not every theory can be tested by experiment though. Eg - What happens when you go faster than the speed of light. But some theories - that cannot be tested with what technology and knowledge we have now, might be open to testing later, eg climate science - or how our brains work (why we think what we think and what is a "mind" anyway? So back to dog training. The trouble with being a vending machine for your dog is that you treat every desired outcome, if you can't do that for some reason eg you're in an obedience comp and rules forbid or need to chain a long string of behaviours together for a movie or tv commercial or just because they need to be done at a distance and you can't treat over there... My dog gets a bit confused about whether or not she's supposed to be doing whatever it is, or if I tell her she's done something right, she comes looking for the treat (or me to come and give it to her). Which is mostly a limitation of my training technique but also an example of the need for delay of reward/gratification for the dog, and that random jackpots may work better. All I know is that sheep herding cannot be trained with the aid of a human vending machine. However, we are getting somewhere with the agility, ie I don't use food for reward there nearly as much as tug, and now she's getting the idea that she has to do more than one obstacle or at least keep going until I say we're done before she gets the treat.

Um what you said plus how many times you rewarded the dog and how many times you withheld reward ie how many correct responses you got vs incorrect responses and how long the session went for. So you can get rate of re-inforcement ie treats per minute and success rate eg 100 attempts, 80 times right. Though I imagine - it would be more like 10 repeats and 8 right, and then you increase the challenge. Or 10 repeats and 3 right and you make the target behaviour easier to get right. You may also want to record what behaviours the dog tries in order to find the correct behaviour. Eg barking, scratching, offering up previously trained behaviours... PS I would also record what re-inforcement I used to see - long term - if some work better than others as reward or if the dog likes variety or novelty.

I saw that. I agree with But I find it insanely confusing terminology even if it is technically consistent. Corvus, Negative re-inforcement is not the same as negative punishment. Paul McGreevy put a page of the code of conduct or whatever it was up to point out that even the people that are writing the rules are confused by the words used. I think a lot of people (even me) think negative punishment is the same as physical abuse. Because it's a "bad thing" eg "negative", and "punishing" as in "adversive" or something most animals would find unpleasant and want to avoid. However we did learn that Pavlovs dogs got quite enthusiastic about being lab experiments and confined with tubes hanging out of them. So even something that seems obviously adversive to me - can be trained out. Yikes. at some point is your dog going to give up on the idea that he might get some food if you stop that occasional reward process ie no treat (ever again for sitting there) will decrease the behaviour? In my dog it would take a couple of days. But she'd quit sitting if she had better things to do and the treats were not coming often enough. As for the word "extinction" again - it just means that some specific behaviour stops. But in my head it also means some species little critter in the desert (or big critter in the jungle, or enormous creature in the ocean) has failed to successfully procreate and now there will be no more on the planet ie a bad thing. So is there a word that means the "uwanted behaviour ceases" that is better than "extinction"? Probably. I still haven't worked out the gap between consistent reward and intermitant reward. Ie the difference between a vending machine and a pokey machine (according to Susan Garrett). How long will the soft drink addict continue to feed a broken vending machine, vs how long with a pokey machine addict continue to feed a broken pokey machine. So the laundry food treat is definitely a pokey machine payout. My training treats are more like the vending machine. Sigh.

JulesP I think I wish my club did more than yank and crank paddock bashing. My dog learned impulse control and a reliable stay by waiting for her dinner. She could not do a stay for longer than about thirty seconds before I started making her work for her dinner. So it's not lifestyle - it's teaching the dog self control. And the trick teaching - is teaching the dog to be open about learning new things. And to keep trying new things during training instead of shutting down (or barking its head off) in frustration. So if you have to teach something specific at some time, it's much easier when the dog is good at learning (tricks).

I think being consistent about how you move helps the dog. It makes the signal clearer, and it's almost being able to signal in several different ways at once. However since I practice heeling on both sides, the verbal and hand signals are more important because I don't always remember to lead off with the foot on the same side as the dog when I want her to come with me. And recently she's decided she gets better rewards if she does a nice wait/recall. So I lead off and she sits there waiting for the recall - jackpot treat. Sneaky puppy.

So this dog would perceive touching and praise as "adversives" so using them when he's doing what they want will actually decrease his likelihood of repeating the desirable behaviour ie they're punishing him for being good so he's going to be less good. Ie behave worse. Which is what you describe is happening. Does he like chasing toys and playing tug? That might work better ie using a game with a toy mouse on a string for a reward. And food. And you can get tugs that hold food ie bait bag tugs. I got Erny's business name muddled up with Steve's when I first got here too. I like what Erny writes so I reckon that would be worth a try.

The dog will look back if you're late delivering the reward. It has to be there as the dog arrives after a correct run. If you're late, they will turn back to you looking for it. It's almost better to occasionally reward early by accident for a slighty incorrect run than to be late with a correct run. If you "place" a reward before you send the dog on the run, it's hard to remove it if the run is not correct. Part of the DVD instruction involves getting the trainer to practice throwing the reward at a target until there is a reasonably reliable placement and timing.

Hi all in South Australia The gawler mock trial featuring obedience and agility to the novice level, has been moved to Sunday 13th March 2011 Time is "not before 6:30pm" and measuring will be available on the night. Just thought I might catch a few here that might not otherwise get the message. The afl game is Port vs Western Sydney "practice match" on Saturday night.

I dunno. I can't help thinking if the behaviour is getting worse, the owner is doing something the dog perceives as encouragement. Extinction bursts (ie behaviour getting worse) usually last five minutes of consistent training (ie no rewarding the bad behaviour) tops, not a month. I think leaving one's hand in the dog's mouth as a chew toy is not a particularily good idea. For starter's it's inconvenient, most people don't have time to be their dog's chew toy, they've got other things to do. And my dog is quite happy to chew on something for ages even if the toy remains intact, tho it's more fun if the stuffing can be ripped out. I actually push my hand into her mouth and hold it there for a second after she starts trying to spit me out, and then I let her spit me out. I agree with the others that wrote that this owner needs professional help that is not the same person as she's got now. And I would ask Steve C at K9pro to recommend someone in their area. The owner needs training as much as the dog.

Ok I'm going to do my best to get all technical. Postive means adding something eg a treat. Or a thump about the ears. Negative means taking something away eg turning off the electric shock. Or not giving a treat. reinforcer - means increasing the behaviour punisher means decreasing the behavior eg giving a treat should increase the behaviour, not giving a treat should reduce the behaviour (so long as the behaviour itself is not fun ie self re-inforcing - as barking often is.). I hate using these terms in combination because people so often misunderstand them or misuse them. Is it the code of conduct for circus animals that says something stupid like negative punishment should never be used, ie you could never stop a kid from teasing a dog because that would be negative punishment ie you'd be decreasing the dog's (bad) reaction (good) by taking away the trigger (naughty child). Sigh.

Any chance you can lock her out of the kitchen with baby gates or something. And you need better locks on the fridge, ie metal ones, screwed in and padlocked. The sort our scuba club uses to stop other clubs from nicking our beer. And the dog probably needs more exercise ie if you took her for a walk for an hour before you went out, she might be (here's hoping) more interested in sleeping.

I think you have to teach him to love being in there when the door is shut. Susan Garrtet crate games is good for this. I give my dog some treats every morning for going in the crate of her own accord. She's less thrilled when I close the door on her at training when I'm setting up stuff. But I go give her treats for being quiet, and I don't go over to her crate until she's quiet. She's slowly getting the idea. It took her a little while to get used to being in the car when she could still see me through the window (winter hockey games).

I found a wobble board in the playground at Hawthorn Oval (SA), and you should have seen my dog's feet when I asked her to put them on it. Could only get the front feet today - and they were spread like pancakes for grip. Easy to see why she's such a good swimmer. She did all four feet on the picnic table no worries. And then we did a bit of contact targetting on the steps... Worked much better than the ones at home as far as 2on 2 off go. Funny dog. She jumped into the playground on her own and then I made her work.

You could always ask Evander Holyfield how he feels about having his ear cropped. He wasn't very happy at the time. I think if the dog could give informed consent, then things might be different but dogs and children cannot do this or understand the potential consequences so it's inappropriate for us to make the decision for cosmetic surgery for them.