Simply Grand

The fact that people he doesn't know who may try to catch him are at risk of injury is yet another reason why he SHOULD be caught, not a reason he should be left to roam!!

It is not fair or realistic to just expect every person who may come across him to know his story and accept that he is some apparent special case, and then imply that if a person is injured by him they are at fault, when not only is he a known roaming dog but apparently people that know him are aware that under certain circumstances he may well bite.

Not to mention that if he does hurt someone for whatever reason he almost definitely would then be PTS.

Yes, I agree too, take a bit of a break for you both to relax, and don't put too much pressure on yourself. You are both doing so well, don't lose sight of that because things aren't perfect :)

Blue is a recognized colour in the SBT standard.

I really like German pinschers and think they would fit most of your criteria except for being s guard dog. They're actually quite small dogs (<15kg) and not really intimidating. Like most dogs they could probably be easily taught to alert bark though

hehehe. come try to get into my place without the world being alerted (no instructing needed).....;) Bitches are about 14kg, boys hit 18kg at maturity and if they jump on you, it's enough to knock you flying.

So males must be about the size of my Aussie Shepherd girl (51cm ish and 18/19kgs) and like I said she's been known to intimidate people. And being black and tan and muscular too I'd imagine GPs could do the job of at least looking scary if they wanted too!

She is just stunning! Blaze

I wouldn't think the rear clipping ones would be any more effective than the front clipping ones, if anything I'd expect the front clipping ones to work better. The idea with using a head collar is that the dog is next to you with the lead loose so that the dog's head doesn't get jerked around by it getting a pace up out in front of you.

I would think a back clipping one would make that position less comfortable? As far as control goes, they should all be designed to distribute the pressure around the harness anyway so it's not all focussed on one point on the dog's head.

If you have a head collar that fits and is working well I would stick with it. Are you using a double ended leash also attached to the collar (you should be as pretty much all head collars can be got off if the dog reeeaaaally wants to so you need a back up)? If you are progressing well with the head collar you could start transitioning to working on the flat collar (still with head collar on, just move the pressure from the leash back to the flat collar) and focus on using your training cues, rewards and body language :)

Ooooohhhh Neko! Gorgeous girl, looks like it's tough being a milk bar.

Love little Secret shoving her way in there!

Good point regarding making some lifestyle concessions. We're not the sort of people to make a commitment without seeing it through properly. It's always been our approach to health and fitness, and now our business as well. We wouldn't take the decision lightly, but at the same time don't want to be unrealistic about the time we aren't physically with the dog and don't want to come home after a long day and find the place destroyed haha.

I really wish we could bring the dog with us! But our place is tiny unfortunately, and don't want to simply tie him up outside when he could roam the house and yard freely. Unless that's a better alternative to leaving him home alone?

I think that's the main thing, that once you've made the decision and brought the dog into your home you are committed to making it work, whatever that requires. Absolutely do all your research and find the best match you possibly can, but as dogs are living creatures they won't be perfect and problems will crop up. As long as you work through it rather than getting rid of the dog at the first sign of trouble, then you are providing a good home IMO

Thanks Rebanne. So it seems like it's helpful to the process even if there haven't been signs of problems.

Are there risks with giving calcium and timing, state of puppies etc considerations like with Oxy? Or is it a fairly safe option to give if there has been a delay and you are unsure?

Not that I'm planning to be in the position to use it anytime soon, just taking the opportunity to learn!

I still think the Chow Chow is one you should look at. You won't see loads of recs for them because most people don't know much about them, haven't met them or spent time around them.

They are around the size of an Amstaff, are independent and content with their own company, ridiculously easy to house train, not particularly destructive, quiet and pretty low energy, loyal to the end and innately protective of you and yours. People say they are stubborn but it depends what you want from a dog. If you want a smart busy dog obeying commands and showing off tricks, you'll find a Chow stubborn. But if you want a calm steady dog that knows itself and doesn't feel the need to display to the world, the Chow is perfect.

Do Chows tend to alert bark blinkblink? I've only met two that I can think of and can't recall either of them making any noise (not that that's bad!). They weren't on their home territory though at the time.

They are lovely dogs.

I have no problem with people working full time, I did it with all three of mine from puppyhood and it was fine, what I find is that it basically requires a big commitment of the time you are not work. As long as you are happy to do that you can provide a happy life for dog. You've said you'll have the dog inside with you, which makes a huge difference! A dog that can follow you around and check put what you're doing, interact with you, be spoken to, played with for short little stints between doing other things etc when you are home gets much more opportunity for stimulation and satisfaction than one that might be shut outside by itself (not that's not do-able either, it just takes an even bigger commitment!!)

And with training, as I said consistency gets results with dogs so a dog being on ita own amusing itself for long periods on some days will slow things down. It's not a problem for the dog, or for you as long as you understand that and don't expect too much from the dog.

I only worry because working in a shelter I've heard many times people saying that they walk their dog for an hour every night and take him to training once a week and he is still naughty and destructive and it turns out that apart from when it is being walked and taken to training it is pretty much in the yard by itself, because people didn't realise that that isn't enough stimulation or interaction for any dog.

As far as guarding, most dogs will bark and alert if something is wrong, although they may also bark when things are perfectly fine but they THINK it's wrong, like the wind is blowing, birds are squawking or bats are knocking mangoes off the tree in the garden (this is a new one we are dealing with here :laugh: ) I still like knowing that my dogs will kick up a fuss if someone turns up at my house and hope will deter intruders.

Most dogs however will not step in if something bad is happening, even the guardian or protection type breeds, unless they have been extensively trained to do so, or have an unstable temperament which means you can't be sure it will only be the bad guys they step in for. I suspect my Australian Shepherd would attempt to protect me if someone actually was a threat to me and I was scared, or if I wasn't there and she herself felt threatened and couldnt get away she may attempt to fight, but it would be uncontrolled and although she may (big may) scare someone off I think she'd be likely to get hurt herself, which I'd hate.

She does have a big loud bark though and she goes up on her hind legs at barks and bays (if she's unsure of something or if she's really excited) and I have actually heard people say they find her scary, or seen them take a step back, even though when she isn't doing that she looks sweet and cute and everyone wants to cuddle her. So I much prefer to rely on the bark to hopefully scare people off and if it really came down to it I would hope she made herself scarce.

Age wise, I think a 2.5-3 year old would be ideal, that is when they are really becoming their adult self, you can get a good sense of their temperament, their barkiness, their activity levels and whether they are happy enough or own or get stressed by it, but of course they are still young enough to be an active and fun companion.

Three days a week is not enough for training, obedience bonding and play time with an adult dog, let alone a puppy. Those things absolutely need to be worked on every day several times a day, for any dog. If you want a really well behaved and obedient dog then then more than that.

The thing about having a well trained obedient dog is that you can't teach it things on some days an not worry about it on other days. If you want a dog to perform a behaviour consistently (for example not jumping on the couch uninvited) you have to be there ready to enforce the desired behaviour every single time the dog goes near that couch. As soon as you are not there and it decides to get up on its own, you have undone any progress you have made.

If you only want it going to the toilet outside and you take it outside ever two hours and reward it every time it goes outside three days a week but aren't there to do it at other times the dog is not going to quickly learn that it should go outside instead of inside.

This goes x50 for a young puppy, they NEED consistency to learn.

So in your situation you are going to have to compromise. Any dog left alone for that long regularly IS going to take longer to train to become your ideal companion because you just cannot provide the consistency. It IS going to get a bit bored and explore things and probably pull things down and chew them and pull them apart, it's just what they do. And that's with you spending lots of time interacting and training and exercising the dog while you are there.

If you can cope with that then I think there are dogs that could be happy fitting in to your lifestyle but you won't be able to bring a dog in and have it behave perfectly under your circumstances. Especially if its a puppy or a young dog.

Agree Snook, well said.

I was just picturing the situation in my mind, what a bizarre thing for anyone to do, to stand at a distance and repeatedly chuck the ball into the midst of a group of other dogs, even if they weren't in class but especially then! I like to think I would walk over to her and ask politely if she would mind throwing the ball for her dog in the opposite direction as it was disrupting the class and bothering the other dogs. If she said no or something along the lines of it's a public space and she could do what she wants, I would then say ok and move the entire class over to where she was standing and set up surrounding her, saying it's a public space and we can do what we want...*evil laugh*

(I wouldn't really as wouldn't be fair to the dogs in the class but I love the image of it)

Thanks for the link TF.

Makes me so annoyed. It's so romanticised. One comment in the story - "I think he does have road sense, I've seen him waiting at the traffic lights and crossing when they turned green".

And another comment - "would the response be the same if he was a pit bull or random cross breed with the same

temperament as Franklin, not a nice white fluffy dog?"

(comments paraphrased by me)

Yet the current thread that people are recommending greyhounds, bull terriers ect is doing just that . The op was honest enough to say they both work very long days .

Very long days, but only three days a week. The other four days someone is at home most of the time.

I don't think it necessarily rules dog-ownership out because if they are committed the dog will still be exercised on those days and provided with stimulation and companionship when they are home. Some dogs would be just fine in this situation.

My Poodle x would be ok with it AS LONG AS he was with me pretty much all the rest of the time, including sleeping with me (which he does). I think the what happens the rest of the time is more important than the long days on their own.

And that's a really hard thing to ascertain from the outside, and for the people themselves, especially if they haven't had dogs before. If you haven't had them you don't necessarily realise how much of the stimulation and satisfaction they need they gain from just following you around and watching what you do, being chatted to and having little pats and plays constantly, in conjunction with being taken out to see and smell the outside world and get exercise etc.

Oh I like that theme, Secret, Mystery and...um...

Tipsy

Ok we'd need to work on boofer boy's name

Agree with The Spotted Devil, good on you for researching and being realistic about your situation :)

Keep in mind that the short neat coats do tend to shed constantly, they are just short spiky hairs! Easy to maintain but you will still have a fair bit of hair all over the place. The low shedding breeds tend to need regular grooming because their hair doesn't just fall out so it gets tangled and needs trimming up etc.

Bull breeds (staffies, pit bulls and others) tend to need some pretty decent training and consistency to be easy to live with, and are veeeeery people focused. I really think you'd come home to an anxious dog and possibly a destroyed house if they were left alone for those long days, unfortunately.

What do you mean when you say low maintenance?

Oh and re training - I think one day I'd like to be bothered to train my dog/s not to got into the kitchen even if there's no physical barrier. People do it so I know it's possible, I'm just too lazy

Aww, look at him turning into a grown up! That still seems so young to me now that my youngest one is four. The oldest will be seven this year

These being my first dogs and having gone from none to bringing home 4 baby puppies in 4 years (including the foster I had for 5 months) I find it really weird having these ADULTS now :laugh: I can't believe how fast the time's gone either.

ETA I do love watching them change as they get older though. I really noticed Quinn becoming a proper at adult once she turned 3, even down to her metabolism changing and her puppy fat (which hadn't realised was puppy fat) falling off her.

We have a little bunny toy that used to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star music box style when you pushed its tummy and whenever I made it play all three dogs would stop whatever they were doing and sit enthralled head tilting at bunny. When the music wasn't playing they would pick him up and play with him but as soon as he started singing to them they'd just listen :) He doesn't sing any more because he's been through the wash a few times.

She doesn't like my music box

Hahaha that's so cute "um, no mum"

How old is he now perse?

Oooooohhh they are sooo beautiful!! Well done little Neko. Love pics of them doing their little dance moves :D

It's really interesting (and frustrating!) how much everything else that's going on effects their tolerance of things that they may have been able to cope with at one stage.

I've missed that a couple of times with Riley because he's improved so much with his reactivity towards dogs, but a couple of times when there have been several of the dogs that trigger him around rather than just one, or there have been issues between other dogs nearby, or even the other week when Riley had randomly joined in a game of fetch with a stranger and his dog an found it really exciting (he doesn't normally join in with strangers), so his stimulation level is that bit higher or tolerance level is that bit lower - then he has shown his reactivity (dog aggression) when I hadn't expected him too. I have to remember not to take his progress for granted!

Oh, and I saw an awesome video on Gruf's FB page Snook