mita

This is about Dr Khaled Abou El Fadi, the US Islamic scholar who argues all the 'beliefs' about dogs should be dropped. As they come from old folk beliefs. He owns 2 rescue dogs as pets...Honey & Baby. (From Los Angeles Times): Abou El Fadl prides himself on questioning just about everything. He could not fathom a God who would condemn such loving, loyal creatures. So about five years ago, he set out to investigate. After a lengthy process of textual research and prayer for divine guidance, he concluded that reports against dogs were passed on through questionable chains of transmissions or contradicted by more favorable reports - for instance, one story of Muhammad praying with his dogs playing nearby. Some reports against dogs bear uncanny similarities to Arab folklore, Abou El Fadl says, leading him to suspect that someone took the tales and attributed them to the prophet. As Abou El Fadl speaks, Honey snoozes near his side. The yellow cocker spaniel mix was abandoned by his owners and was cowering in the corner of an animal shelter, dirty and racked by seizures, when the scholar and his wife rescued him. They also rescued Baby, a black shepherd a day away from being killed, and Calbee, an abused dog who smelled of garbage for a year and still feels secure only when curled up inside a plastic laundry basket.

Some great pics & info here from the website of a Canadian convert to Islam married to a Moroccan. Shows how the hunting dogs in Islam were prized....& still are. Also explains how there's a huge range of interpretations about how dogs should only be in the 'service of man'. Like, some (as the Royal family of Jordan) believe being a pet fits that. Point also made is that dogs should be well looked after. Interesting links to Muslim vets who cut thro' the cultural noise. http://www.chezchiara.com/2010/03/family-d...art-i-some.html

Example from the UK. Also shows how muslim beliefs depend on on-going interpretation of its holy texts, by scholars. Same time, tho', a US Islamic scholar has said that all pet dogs should be allowed as there's no worries about disease & dogs' saliva....which started it all way back in history. From The Sunday Times December 23, 2007 Muslims break taboo to allow guide dog into mosque Abul Taher A RETRIEVER is in training to become the first dog in Britain to be permitted to enter a mosque, acting as a guide for its blind Muslim owner... The mosque took its decision after advice from imams and scholars at the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), who carried out a full review of Islamic teaching on dogs. The animal is now being trained by the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association to curb its natural friendly instinct to jump up and lick people. Any worshipper who touched the dog’s nose, or whose clothes were touched by saliva, would have to wash straightaway. The retriever is being taught to sit in a purpose-built kennel outside the prayer hall of the mosque and wait for its owner, Mahomed Khatri, 17, to come out after worship. Khatri is being trained to handle the dog, which will enable him to worship more often at the Al Falah. He is expected to pay his first visit with the dog early next year. This initiative in Leicester may lead to an easing of the anticanine stance taken by mosques in Britain. Ibrahim Mogra, a senior imam at the MCB, who has overseen the review of teaching on guide dogs, said they could be justified as they served an “urgent practical purpose”. He said: “We found the Koran allows Muslims to use dogs for hunting. So if Muslims can eat a prey bitten by dogs, then there should not be a problem using them to guide you if you are blind.” Khatri, an A-level student at Loughborough further education college, lost his sight in 2005 because of detached retinas. He is also a member of the national blind cricket team. He added: “Having a guide dog will give me complete independence to go anywhere. Now I only go around with friends, or just stay in.” The MCB reexamined the rules on dogs after incidents in which Muslim restaurant owners and taxi drivers refused customers with guide dogs. In June Sallahaddin Abdullah was fined £200 in Cambridge after he refused to allow a blind couple into his taxi because they had a guide dog. The Muslim Council of Britain issued a ruling after saying British Muslims should allow guide dogs to enter restaurants and taxis.

Very true. And the expression of a particular religion becomes different between various countries. Same for some of the other major religions, too. Growing up, I had Irish, English & Maltese Catholics for relatives....& they were very different on how their religion was expressed. Islam does not have a central figure who pronounces on the 'rules' worldwide....as the catholics have a pope & a Vatican. Muslim beliefs depend on ongoing interpretations by scholars of their sacred texts. For example, while the Iranian cleric is fulminating about keeping pet dogs, a leading US muslim scholar is saying proscriptions against pet dogs (& especially their saliva!) don't count any more. And, LP is correct, there are other texts rather than the Koran. Into this mix comes the general culture & political history of a country. With some interpretations wanting to have no separation between the religious rules & the social rules. The hard-liners presently ruling the roost in Iran push that latter line. And it's why hard-core fundamentalist pronouncements are frequently coming out of Iran. They're not in line, tho', with the feelings of the majority of Iranians....who tend to be young & well-educated. With many of them taking part in the protests for reform in recent years, where some of them were killed. They belong to a generation with strong ties, via education & technology, to the rest of the world. So it's not surprising that a hard-line cleric has discovered numbers of Iranians keep pet dogs.

A muslim, General Mushariff of Pakistan, became President after a military coup in 1999. He walked into his first press conference with Western journalists, with a surprise. They expected he'd arrive in army clothes & carrying a gun. But he was in casual clothes & carrying his family's two pet dogs, under his arms. The western journalists called the dogs, Pekes. But they look like something else...

In fact, there's a section in the Koran about how someone is condemned to hell for cruelly ill-treating a dog. (Her sin being indifference to suffering.) And the Bedouin relied heavily on their working dogs for organising their flocks & for hunting. I think there was some connection made, in the lands of Arabia, where the religion developed....with spread of disease. As in the focus for 'uncleanliness' being on the dog's saliva. In our modern world....with better knowledge about disease & control...there's a lessening about a sense of uncleanliness & dogs, especially among educated muslims. That's probably what happened in Iran....& people have got dogs as pets (which is annoying the fundamentalist cleric). A leading Islamic scholar in the United States has written an article about why the 'unclean' view about keeping pet dogs, shouldn't apply any more. Like, the autobiography of Queen Noor of Jordan, contains delightful stories about her family's dogs. She & the late King Hussein and their children loved dogs. That book is worth reading....just for the dog stories! Like, their labrador who took off swimming towards Israel with the King in hot pursuit in his motorboat.....while an Israeli patrol boat comes racing from their side. King Hussein managed to retrieve his lab before it caused an international incident. The family also owned pet german shepherds & a beagle....and the housekeeper owned a chihuahua. More recently, the beloved pet dog of the present King Abdullah & Queen Raina of Jordan, was raced to a vet hospital in Israel....while the Gaza offensive was going on. Sadly, the vets couldn't save him. http://boxerbriefsthebook.wordpress.com/20...uring-gaza-war/ Cats have been prized as pets in Islamic lands because Mahommed was said to love his pet cat (& cats didn't get 'connected' with disease as dogs did). Queen Noor tells how King Hussein's brother loved his cats so much, that all his gardens around his house were set up to be a comfortable & safe sanctuary for them.

What? If so, this is discrimination against other dogs (& their owners). How on earth did such a discriminatory proposal get written into a proposed law that's supposed to deal with 'dangerous' dogs? Which is supposed to be about dogs' behaviour....& especially how certain owners allow their dogs to become 'dangerous'. Membership in any kind of association....& attendance in a show ring at least once a year...have no direct bearing on a dog's behaviour. General dog owners of Victoria should be very annoyed about this. It borders on the farcical. Maybe general dog owners should see if they could get membership for their dogs in the Melbourne Club....& make sure they turn up to the bar for an annual drink (accompanied by their dog). Then, petition the government to get members of the Melbourne Club exempted from these proposed laws. If the Melbourne Club won't cooperate....try the St Vincent de Paul Society. And, if not them, keep trying to find an organisation which will. Doesn't have to have any direct relationship to dogs' behaviour. Farces aside....I wonder if VicDogs realise the law will apply to the dogs they sell to people, as pets (who will then find themselves cut off from VicDogs' mantle of safety under the law). Do they have any concern about this?

This is what emergency vets (& later, our own vet) told me after our tibbie girl got a piece of rawhide stuck in her gullet. Tibbies are a short-nosed breed. It was pointed out to me that dogs....all dogs...have a tendency to gulp things down. And the gullet has a bendy bit....'around the heart'...where big or strange-shaped things can get stuck. Apparently, this is a common reason for emergency trips to the vet as the dog desperately tries to 'heave' the item up. Big dangers are the fact that the gullet is right beside the airways....& there can be long-term, serious tissue damage to the gullet. The vets told me of all sorts of things they'd seen dogs have stuck there. Sticks, rawhide, bits of bones....even a knife (yes, the dog lived!). Our tibbie was put under an anaesthetic for vets to get the stuck rawhide out....or down (to the tummy, where the digestive juices would take care of it). The anaesthetic relaxed her to such an extent that the rawhide moved 'naturally' into her tummy.

My turn to get a nice surprise! I was reading the July 2010 Australian House & Garden magazine. And there was a sensible article about choosing a pedigree dog. The columnist talks about how he did his research by talking with good registered breeders & also to the Australian National Kennel Association. The latter told him that the horrors about purebreds set out by the British TV program are countered to some extent here, because Australian breeders have a history of importing new bloodlines into their dogs to safeguard against inbreeding. The article gets even better. The writer says that the registered breeders he interviewed were 'helpful, enthusiastic and, above all, very caring about their animals.' Then he goes on to contrast this with unscrupulous 'breeders' called puppy farmers who, he says, are just after money. 'By forcing their bitches to constantly turn out litters, failing to keep adequate records to prevent inbreeding, & keeping their animals in crowded, unsanitary conditions, puppy farmers not only damage the individual dogs they breed, but also the breed itself.' The columnist goes on to give readers some tips 'to avoid supporting this obnoxious trade'. His answers are to deal directly with a breeder & find out who you're buying from. He says a sign of a consienctious breeder is that they like to know (& approve of) the sort of home their puppy is going to. So these same breeders would be equally open about where their puppies come from. Also he tells people to do their research. So they can ask about any health problems associated with a breed. As he says 'Good breeders keep good breeding records....& expand the gene pool. Then, he tells people to be patient. 'Waiting lists are common, as good breeders will limit the number of litters to what is healthy for their dogs'. He points people to the associations for lovers of particular breeds. Get in touch & ask for recommendations of breeders to talk with. Last sentence...'And think - a lot - before you take the plunge & take a puppy home.' The magazine deserves full marks for publishing this info....& the writer deserves even more for researching so well before writing it.

And they do, which astounds me even more. Do they not know what likely means? As in the law giving an authorised person the go ahead to make a judgment on a dog if they think it might be likely to bite, attack, chase etc. That is a step towards stereotypes about non-banned breeds finding a place in law as likely dangerous. That does not require an individual dog to actually DO anything.

I think it was an RSPCA Qld publication where I got the idea about carrying an umbrella....a long way back. Important that it's one which will pop up quickly. Apparently, much of dog aggression depends first on eye-balling, so you can pop it up as a shield while an attack from another dog is brewing. When that dog can't see its target, the aggro sequence gets disrupted. Also the whoooosh of the umbrella going up can startle the attacking dog off. It's also easy to move the open umbrella around if the dog should circle. If worst comes to worst.....a strong umbrella can be used to thump a dog off. I agree that the OP shouldn't beat herself up either. I had a similar experience which frightened the heck out of me....& I don't frighten easily. In this case, a huge German Shepherd came roaring at speed across the park straight at me & my 2 gentle shelties. I had nothing to protect us with. All I could do was scream 'Stop!'. But I honestly thought the shelties & I were done for. I bent down & put my arms around them. Fortunately, the GSD's owner... way.across the park (where dogs had to be on leads)....turned around from talking with other people. He yelled for his dog to stop....& thank god, it did, only a few yards from us. It was the terror from that event which sent me looking for something that would help if it happened again. Then I found the RSPCA tip about the 'brella.

Don't worry if you're still crying when you phone the council. They need to know the shock, distress & injury some off-leash dogs can cause. I feel terribly for you & your pup. I hope you both will be fine. I carry a largish umbrella when I take the dogs out on a leash. It can pop up fast to act as a shield....& it's strong enough to do a good thumping, if necessary. If only the present laws about dogs needing to be on-leash in public places were policed strictly....& complaints acted on promptly. That would go a long way to dealing with dogs that are allowed by their owners to be dangerous to other animals & humans. So let the council know.

I'd second both those comments. Well done, Erny. And this proposed law needs to stop at the border!

I agree with you, ML. There was a lovely, male p/b Maltese boy here, needing a new home because his elderly owner was going into care. He was fostered with the experienced poodle rescue lady....who also loves tibbies. She said this Maltie boy was one of the most outstanding dogs she'd ever taken in. Not only was he gorgeous looking... but he was calm, quiet, sensible & loving. A new home was found for him....with an experienced nurse who works in a nursing home & where this lovely Malt boy was welcome to come to work with her every day. His qualities made him perfect for a role like that....

One of the first things that Michael Beatty, from the RSPCA Qld, said publicly on TV, was that you are a highly respected breeder. One look at your dogs & they were proof! The RSPCA Qld knows that if all puppies were bred by people like you....& in the way you do....their work-load would shrink! And hundreds of dogs would not have short, painful & sad lives. I'm so glad you've come thro' a hard battle. Great to hear your 'voice' again.

All our tibbies have been retired showdogs. All ex-Aus Chs (not that we cared if they hadn't got prizes in the ring!). The experienced & very honest breeder gave us a run-down on each tib's personality before we got them. Each time, she was proven spot-on. So if you deal with a breeder like that, you'll already know what a dog is like, re barking etc. It'd be a good idea to stress to the breeders you speak to, that a strong inclination to barking is what you can't have in your circumstances. And, as most of us have said, there will be differences among individual dogs. As to price, it can vary. In our case, the breeder knew us well & wanted to retire her girls as pets here. We had to force her to take any money at all! We've adopted our ex-show girls across a range of ages. Two were 8 years old....great, healthy but mellowed dogs. One was 3 yrs old & the other around 5 yrs of age. All settled in equally well. Tibs are a breed which age well. They can still look & act young well into their senior years. Like people (including vets) find it hard to believe our present 11 yr old girl is not years younger.

All the tibbies (retired show dogs) we've owned have only barked when there's a reason. And thank god they did on several occasions....foiling a burglar entering the house, a thief trying to break into the car & drawing attention to a lost toddler on the road. On the whole, tho', I'd never describe them as barkers. Very good at quickly summing up any person entering the yard. Giving a bark only to warn if it's a complete stranger. But quietening as soon as we speak to that person. In fact, I picked the tibetan spaniel breed first, at the Brisbane Royal Show. Because among the small breeds, they sat calmly & quietly, despite all the squealing & yapping going on around them. But I've also done the same with our tibs as I've done with all other dogs we've owned. Kept them from seeing the passing parade along the footpath. Seems to vary with individual dogs, tho', as others have said. Because the tiny tibbie girl next door does bark more than ours....but she's allowed to see the busy passing parade on the footpaths around their corner house.

I agree with you. Socialisation, as wide as possible, is crucial for all dogs. But I think it does happen. Arranged via the training team. There's also been research tracking this Qld program & I believe one of the first findings was that the presence of the puppies not only benefited the prisoners, but also the staff. They found the same thing with pet therapy dogs in hospitals. An unexpected spin-off was benefits to the staff as well as the patients.

Totally agree. All our retired show tibetan spaniels (now pets), from experienced breeders, have been wonderful dogs to own in every way. Looks, temperament, health....how well they've been socialised. And that's not just my assessment. It's the vets' as well as strangers who meet them. If I'd paid a thousand or more, for each one, I'd still think it was incredible value for money As it was, I had to make the breeder take any money at all... Lucky you, if you decide to get a show tibbie.

'Get a life!' is such a silly phrase. People who use it, haven't the brains to see they're telling a living person to get something they already have....a life! O/T, I've been in similar situations where an off-lead dog, accompanied by an owner, has caused chaos while I've had 2 shelties on leads. Much tangling of leads. Yesterday, I was walking the 2 tibs on leads (along walking park where signs clearly say dogs must be on leads). A couple approached us with a medium size, off-lead dog that they were exercising by throwing a ball for it to fetch. The man threw the ball away from us. But as the dog picked up the ball, he spotted my 2 girls & came racing over (ignoring the man's call to come back). The dog circled behind us. My 2 tibbie girls turned to face him. Annie....whom we call Miss Viking because she comes from Sweden...has loads of confidence & shows no fear. She stood tall & faced down that dog, without making a sound. It spooked the dog who did a big scared rush to get away. I couldn't help but laugh. I think that really offended the bloke. Small golden dog sees off his dog, by only giving it a look.

I saw that. Excellent program with great info. That's right....they said the treatment by direct injection can only be used (at this stage) for tumours accessible at skin level. Good on you for posting the info & contact details.

Here's the info on the next microchipping day held by Moreton Bay Council....cost is $10. It'll be in October, date to be set. http://www.moretonbay.qld.gov.au/discover.aspx?id=31649 The Brisbane Council has also had low-cost microchipping during their Open Days at their pounds. Check with them, too, if they're having a similar event soon.

Some good options have come up so far. Fran's offer to try to find foster-care in Rocky. Get them to Brisbane....true what another DOLer said, that puppies have a chance of doing fine at RSPCA shelter at Fairfield. Have you got a phone no? Also Best Friends Rescue in Brisbane is another thought. Got a phone no? Once in the care of a rescue, the issue of vet work & desexing can be addressed.

I'd second that. The information you describe covers all the the things DOLers have posted about for ages. Good to see it collected into one handout...& being given to the public.

My tibetan spaniel, a small breed, is noted for staying looking younger longer. Along with their sturdy constitution, they cope with age well. My NinaZena had to go to the vet emergency hospital recently, with a bit of rawhide stuck in her gullet. She's going on 11 yrs of age. First, the vet nurse couldn't believe that age, just by looking at her. Then the vet took a range of tests because she was going to have a general anaesthetic. The vet remarked, seeing the results, that they were like those for a dog much younger. This is why I've had no problem adopting a tibbie age 8 years. Because 'senior' doesn't really kick in until the 'teens'. 2 beautiful p/b tibs aged 14 years were recently adopted, in fine feckle & appearance, after their elderly owners had to go into hospital. Now they'd be 'seniors'....but even then, they were doing fine. By the way, I have a relative with 2 small poodles where the same applies. I was reading where research on longevity in dogs has to factor in the differences between small & larger breeds....because the smaller ones tend to age more slowly.