mita

Which is what I posted earlier as a possible solution. Maybe it comes down to rigorous testing of individual greys . Greys coming from racing are already being assessed as individuals though. I don't see why anything would need to change based on this expose as far as the rehoming of the dogs are concerned. I gave that comment in the context of the known 'blooded greyhounds' being taken into care.... & the question of rehoming as pets. I added 'maybe' because I don't count myself as having any expertise. I'm not suggesting any 'change'. I've said I welcome an Enquiry, now that the issue has blown up, because it would clear the air, with the aid of expertise being presented & released in a public report. And I also said earlier: The breed shouldn't be singled out for things that just generally apply to dogs.

Which is what I posted earlier as a possible solution. Maybe it comes down to rigorous testing of individual greys .

What's 'soft evidence'? You are casting judgment on a man you did not know. This man was well known to our family for years, a public servant, and an animal lover generally. His views on anti-blooding were associated with equally strong views about the strategy of keeping greys hungry as appalling, and not destroying greys because they proved poor runners.

That would count as expertise in opinion sought by an Enquiry.

That's fair comment. Which is why I welcome an enquiry. Not just in Victoria. I'd generalized from a trainer who was vocal in how he had no truck with blooding...& he shared that with his network of friends. I'd just assumed those trainers offering dogs to GAP were of his same mind. That's why I agreed for my small dog to be a small dog tester for GAP. Only grey I witnessed being a bit twitchy with the small dog, was one that come thro' the RSPCA & was being given the GAP assessment protocol. I have to be honest, tho', if this issue had arisen at that time, I would have withdrawn my small dog as a tester for GAP until an expert enquiry was over. Which may well conclude what you've said.... or not. Certainly no GAP grey in the small sample I saw gave any worry at all.

How do you know for sure? Did this fellow break in his own pups or did they go to be broken in when they were young? He had a network of colleagues he worked with who shared his belief that it wasn't necessary to blood greyhounds. He sent his pups, at a certain age, to one of those on a country property. We were in outer suburbia. He has since moved to a country property himself, having retired, so he can do it full time. Please note my later comment that while, at the time, I would've been uncomfortable living next door, with small dogs, to someone who blooded their greys... it was not based on having any expert opinion. Which is why a I welcome an enquiry that will gather that.

First, I speak to you courteously. And I expect you to do the same to me. Note that I've said I want these matters to be thrashed out with evidence & expert opinion in an enquiry. And have made it clear I do not represent 'expert' opinion. Just what I've tried to make out of discussions on this issue. That's fair comment that it's likely I could over-generalize from my experience of living next door to greys raised & kept in a particular way. I don't care what you expect. You are talking rubbish. There is no way to tell if any dog has been blooded, no way. Even if it is the ravishing beast you expect it to be does not mean it has been blooded. I refuse to get myself banned over you, you are so not worth it. End of conversation Not end of conversation. You will not speak rudely to me. Especially as I'm as interested in hearing your opinions, as anyone else's. Why on earth should you be worried about getting banned for giving opinions that you have every right to give, same as me?

First, I speak to you courteously. And I expect you to do the same to me. Note that I've said I want these matters to be thrashed out with evidence & expert opinion in an enquiry. And have made it clear I do not represent 'expert' opinion. Just what I've tried to make out of discussions on this issue. Also note that I've also referred to small dogs, not only small children. That's fair comment that I could over-generalize from my experience of living next door to greys raised & kept in a particular way.

I don't mean to be rude... but how can you say 'no doubt' when there's not evidence? This question needs to be thrashed out.... with evidence and expertise. And, I agree with you that it not only applies to greys, it applies to other dogs as well. The breed shouldn't be singled out for things that just generally apply to dogs. I certainly was comfortable with our small dogs living next door to greyhounds that I knew, without doubt, were not blooded with small animals. I could have no doubt as the trainer was strong in opposing it as totally unnecessary to motivate greys to run. He took pride in the fact that he was thought too 'soft' with his greys, treating them like companion pets. And socializing his puppies with children & with our small dogs. Yet some became state sprint champions. Even tho' I wouldn't have had expert opinion to go on, I would've been uncomfortable if he'd been a trainer who blooded his greys. Which is why, now that the issue has hit the headlines, I welcome an enquiry, which would gather evidence & expert opinion.

Rebanne, we need evidence which is why I support the idea of an enquiry before we can say that greys who've passed thro' GAP have been blooded... or not. And advice from experts in dog behaviour. The evidence is in that there's a cross-over between dogs' prey drive leading to killing of small animals & the most commonly bitten group... small children. Not to mention small dogs. This needs to be thrashed out, according to rigorous evidence, not just what any of us (including me) think. And deep down, it applies to any dog, not just greys. Maybe it comes down to rigorous testing of individual greys ... I don't know.

I'd say it's only half the message. Sure they're not being trained to attack grown humans. But those greys are being trained to see small squealing creatures as prey to be killed. Out in everyday society, there's tiny children and small companion pets. The largest human group attacked by dogs (& other than greys) are small children. One of the reasons being they behave like the small creatures which can attract the prey drive. I am not saying that all greys will attack small children & small dogs. I saw at first hand the well-raised greys coming thro' GAP who passed the tests of being safe with children & small dogs , with flying colours. Best guess they hadn't been trained to kill small, squealing creatures. To be honest, I don't know the answer what to do with the greys seized. Maybe it's ruling that they'll never be released as pets in open society. People more expert in dog behaviour could advise.

Sydney Morning Herald says 'insiders' tell them that the NSW Enquiry is a good thing & not before time. One un-named source saying it will either make or break the industry. Pity Qld & Victoria don't go the independent enquiry route, too. Instead of pronouncing 'most don't do bad things', ' and giving millions of dollars to the administration which let horror pass under its nose. Question still remains how awful & cruel behaviours will be policed ... given that it all takes place on private property. And the creepy ones will learn to shut up about telling others who might report.

I wonder how your girl would go with my Tibetan Spaniels. But maybe that wouldn't be a true test because the breed are not really spaniels.

That's not lame....it's what we like to see. :) Lucky boy to be going to a home where he's so much loved ...& he hasn't arrived yet!

Thanks for the quote from Premier Baird, labradore. Pretty straight answer about shutting down being among options. It's been said a thousand times, but so sad for the owner/trainers, watching all this, who do more than the right thing.

Animals Australia's Facebook page has Schweppes, Hyundai, Bendigo Bank and Autobarn saying they're 'done with greyhound racing'. Both theirs & Animal Liberation Qld websites have glowing descriptions of the greyhound breed ... lovely dogs. I'd back that. Racers & ex-racers I met through GAP were the nicest all-round dogs. I wonder if the NSW Enquiry will be asking if greyhound racing can continue, in line with expectations these days on how dogs should be treated? I've seen, up close, an owner/trainer who treated his greys very well ... & so did his friends. But the big question is how standards like his, could be enforced. Especially when there's money riding on the greyhounds' backs. Money can count more than welfare for some people.

What about shooting a grey if it doesn't make the grade as a racer? Or keeping the greys hungry in the belief that it gives them more will to run after the lure? Both were told to me by the decent greyhound owner-trainer who lived next door. He rescued a big, good-natured boy from a colleague who was going to shoot him because he couldn't run fast. Boofy became a great favourite pet among neighbours. It was commonplace, it seemed. He also told us about the keeping hungry 'trick', in the context of talking about his opposite beliefs re good food & nutrition for his greys. He accepted it as commonplace. I think it was Neil Mitchell who's been quoted as saying, as long as people have animal 'sports' they bet money on, there'll be welfare problems for the animals involved.

To be fair, I looked up any later comment by Qld's Bill Bryne. I'd say he's since been helped to more relevant language. And he's willing to consider changes to laws, if required. But he's still avoiding the elephant in the room, Greyhound Racing authority CEO & Board who did not act, even tho' the activists told them last year about the evidence. A fresh start is needed at the top. And he's still just making assumptions about how widespread the cruelty is ...without any enquiry: Queensland's new Racing Minister Bill Byrne said although laws were more than adequate to deal "these sorts of acts of barbarism" he would take them further if needed. "Now I'm not about shutting out the sport of greyhound racing, I am about shutting down what appears to be sociopathic behaviour with some elements of the industry," he said. "If we've got to go harder, clearly we do, then I'll be part of that."

Think this "forthright" response is due to the fact NSW has an upcoming State election next month (28/3/2015) :D so they need to be seen doing something quickly to quell the growing furore about the animal cruelty aired on Four Corners and the greyhound industry in general. After the Four Corners expose, the NSW Govt appointed High Court justice Michael McHugh to conduct a review of the NSW greyhound industry and as the furore grew louder, they forced the Greyhound NSW Board to resign and CEO to step aside and expanded and strengthened the review to be conducted by High Court justice Michael McHugh. And, labadore, I've been lamenting the fact that we in Qld have just had an election! Long time before we can show disapproval at the ballot box. I've just written to the new Minister in Qld & pointed out that, in his interview with Brisbane Times, he pre-empted any enquiry, by saying that there's no way most greyhound trainers were like these 'mongrels' (his ill chosen word). Then in the same breath he says there's no overall info on what goes on. No plans, though, for an independent enquiry like in NSW.... oh for a High Court Justice, like Michael McHugh. I pointed out to him that 'mongrels' were just mixed breed dogs.... dogs like any other. Inappropriate to use for cruelty by humans. Good luck to RSPCA Qld, having this bloke as the Minister covering Animal Welfare!

I looked up the new Minister who'd cover animal welfare in Qld. It's Bill Byrne from Rockhampton. He's both the Minister for Agriculture (covers animal welfare) & the Minister for Sports & Racing. The greyhound welfare issues takes in both. And I'm not impressed with his comments on the 4 Corners program. Calls the 'bad' trainers 'mongrels' & refuses to believe that greyhound racing has lots of people like that. But in the same breath says there's not been an investigation which shows the extent. Don't like the sound of him. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queensland-racing-minister-bill-byrne-speaks-out-on-four-corners-20150217-13h3gb.html He's already a member of a racing club...Rockhampton Jockey Club. Greyhound racing comes under the same umbrella. So how independent will his opinions be? Can we borrow the bloke from the NSW Government who was far more forthright in his response?

Article in SMH shows how new laws, called ag gag, that are being proposed would prevent Animals Australia & others from conducting such cruelty investigations in the future. The present laws re trespass would be made more severe & activists would not be allowed to distribute any pictures taken. http://www.smh.com.au/comment/new-laws-could-stop-revelations-of-animal-abuse-20150217-13go4u.html Animals Australia also shows how our taxes are enormously propping up the greyhound 'industry'. I didn't know that: http://www.animalsaustralia.org/features/greyhound-racing-money-trail.php

We should go see what the people who know about the law... & who are also committed to animal welfare... have to say. I saw someone from the Barristers' Panel on Animal Welfare commenting on the greyhound issue. I looked up their website & found this.... which didn't surprise me: "Dr. Siobhan O’Sullivan is a Research Fellow at the School of Social and Political Sciences at the University of Melbourne. Siobhan has a long-standing interest in animal protection. In 2000 she conducted honours research into the link between the modern institution of private property, and poor animal welfare standards." Conducting 'surveillance' on private property is not easy... as others have already said, especially when the property is in an isolated location. This Barristers' Panel seems very formidable.... their patron is the great former Chief Justice, Michael Kirby who's also patron of the Animals Welfare League. I'd like to hear more from them. http://bawp.org.au/secretariat/

A little O/T, but I looked up Racing Qld's webpages to see if they had a statement of principles & practices re 'Integrity' (they have something called 'Integrity Services'). I found a promotional page called 'Girls on Track'. Silly me thought it was about the female greys. No, the 'girls' include women trainers. Go look at the poses selected for the two women greyhound trainers. Looks more like trying to be borderline cheesey modelling. Not a greyhound in sight... they hold an empty collar & lead. Speaks volumes, in my opinion. http://www.racingqueensland.com.au/girls-on-track.aspx

DD, I meant failure to regulate their industry for the greyhounds' welfare. The job of a board is regulation.

Yes, full marks to NSW Government, they said to the Board, resign or be sacked. They resigned. Qld reported that a major sponsor, Macro Meats, immediately pulled its funds. The CEO of that company issued a blunt statement of disgust. Also an ex-Brisbane Lions player, who was an ambassador for Greyhound Racing Qld, also immediately pulled his support. Saw a brief interview with an owner/trainer who said it's been rife for ages. And that he had lodged a complaint, but nothing came of it. Sure looks like 'failure & ignoring the situation' went right to the top.