koalathebear

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandg...6/14527096.html

The video and photos are very lovely. I hope they find the right home for the little fellow. Given that he's blind - I wonder what his quality of life will be like, though. Also, how cruel to just dump a blind puppy on a busy street like that :'(

Elbie is very cute and so teeny

Ha! Only by comparison to SOME people's dogs. He looks pretty large when he's in our house! See you this Sunday - I'm going to have to wear an extra pair of socks this week, my toes were freeeeeeeezing. If I was very nice to Indi, do you suppose she'd sit on my toes and act as a footwarmer?

Saxonpup

I was thinking of going down on Sunday, especially to see Elbie! I set the alarm and everything but when it went I switched it off and went back to sleep I'll try for next week,

Oh my goodness that's so sweet of you. We'll have to try to coach Elbie so that he behaves this Sunday and doesn't disgrace us! Just be warned, he gets very excited and jumpy around new people even though we do try to remind him of his manners

now I want to meet the gorgeous Indi too.

Ah, you will fall in love. She is very beautiful and has the most gentle expression.

Saxon was most unfocussed! I think it was the excitement of being back at training, new smells, new dogs in class etc etc. Plus I'd been a bit slack with practicing during the break. Hopefully he'll get serious this week ;)

It can be kind of crazy with all the barking and noises ... It must be even stranger to be doing the obedience class at night. Are there big lights or do you all get night vision goggles?

clastic

Thanks, I hope he can stay focussed in class! I hope I get to meet you and your boy soon :D It's rather lovely how many DOL people are in Canberra

I don't think people should be made to feel defensive about turning to a no-pull harness or other device. Use whatever you need to in order to get your dog to walk nicely. No big deal. They are not severely aversive to most dogs and it's not the end of the world if you decide to use them permanently, either. You haven't let your dog down or failed in some way if you opt to use a no-pull harness, even if you opt to use it as a permanent crutch. You do what works for you.

Hee! It's hard not to feel defensive on this forum sometimes Even though the advice is well-intended, sometimes other people make things seem so easy while meanwhile people like me are finding things an awfully hard slug I guess it's like how cooking shows make things look super simple

Yes, alas - he's like Harry Houdini ...

On the plus side, we've made some progress with new collar and harness. As mentioned, our growling, resistant cranky, bitey puppy did not like his new collar or the car harness. One slice of low fat cheese (cut into many, many little pieces, though), kibble and many cheesey farts later ..

There are car harness that makes the dog have to lay down... you slide the seatbeat through the hoop and you click into the seatbelt. We use this for my brother's beagle.. who doesn't know the concept of being still. It doesn't allow him to move at all. it only let him sit right against the seat or he lay down. Maybe that would help?

I have to ask the boyfriend where he got it from though.. because I send him out to buy a car harness and he came home with that one..

We have one of those - Elbie wriggled right out of it even though it was put on very snugly... The smallest size is too small so we went for medium and made the straps snug - he still got out. Sigh ... :rolleyes:

Hi tlc

Thanks for your post. Our problems with Elbie and car travel are the subject of a separate post and we're making slow progress with it. Without repeating everything in the other post over in this one, one of us has to sit in the back with him at this stage - not to calm him - just make sure he doesn't jump forward onto the driver. The reasons for this are:

1. The backseat buddy doesn't provide that much protection to the driver unless the puppy's been trained to stay in a drop position - which we are trying to do

2. We have tried two harnesses - one that buckles into the seat belt buckle and one that loops through the seatbelt strap. Neither has worked so far. The first because even though we've shortened the strap as much as we can, it is still too long and Elbie can fall down into the footwell which has happened a few times. We can't make it any shorter. The second one does keep him more constricted but even though it's quite secure and snug- he can wriggle out of it when he's panicked which he has now done twice and almost ended up in the front with us

3. He is crate-trained but our car cannot fit a crate flat - the crate would be on a very wonky and uncomfortable angle.

At this point, our only option is to have someone in the back to make sure he doesn't jump about and to give him treats each time he goes into a quiet sit or drop position. We do not offer him comfort and encourage any fear or sookiness, having someone in the back is purely for safety reasons because we very much want to try to get him accustomed to car travel.

Many people have told us that we should have taken him about more in the car when he was younger so that he grew more accustomed to it. That had been our intention unfortunately during his earlier weeks many of our car trips were to the hospital to visit a terminally ill family member so bringing the dog was not an option, we couldn't take him when visiting relatives because: (a) my brother lives in an apartment; (b) my mother doesn't like dogs, we couldn't take him to meet other dogs because: (a) he was recovering from ringworm; (b) he hadn't had all of his vaccinations yet. Just driving around aimlessly in the car with the puppy in the back didn't seem like a very sensible thing to do at the time. In hindsight, I wish we could have taken him in the car more back then, but it really just was not possible. Thus, all we can do now is try to gradually get him to behave in the car - and he is getting better and being able to maintain his balance more and cry less, but it's going to be slow going.

As to the harness, it's the car harness so it's pretty understandable why he hates it so we're putting it on and taking it off him half a dozen times a day - paired with treats/mealtimes. He's getting better but he is stubborn. Reading this forum, I'm always aware that most other members here are experienced dog owners so would never face the problems/challenges we find ourselves facing as inexperienced dog owners, but all we can do is our best and be happy when both the puppy and us make progress. Things that are easy or old hat to other members are still new and challenging to us - I hope one day we'll be in a position where we have a bite-free, car-happy, harness-happy puppy but for now we're pretty happy with Elbie's progress and try to solve each new problem as it arises!

I am also very unco with the clicker when walking ... It's fine in the house when we're asking Elbie to do things and I click and treat but going outside is a nightmare... walking, stopping him pulling (turning around and changing direction blah blah) and trying to pull a treat out of the treat bag at my waist and also clicking when he does the right thing - while keeping an eye out for oncoming perils ... What doesn't help is that at obedience they said that we're supposed to hold the leash in the right hand, steady it with the left and treat with the left hand - so how do I click??? Argh I need a harmonica version of a clicker I guess

"Good boy" works with Elbie as well although he doesn't always get a treat after a good boy, so the click is a far more powerful thing for him ...

The growling/biting etc when you put a harness on, or restrain him is a bit concerning...

what do you do/say when he does growl/bite?

may I suggest that he only gets fed when he gets his harness on..and is polite about it he will soon catch on! It means polite, too - a growl and there is NO food.

He used to not like us putting his collar on but these days he sits quietly while we put it on. Then it was the leash. Now it's the harness ...

The harness has a snap around the neck, then has to be slid up over his foot and then around his back so he REALLY hates it. Presumably he also associates it with his car rides which he also hates so for the past couple of days we have been putting the harness on and taking it off in association with treats and also meal times. It's a very, very slow process but he is getting better. If he bites the harness, we say: "let go" or "no biting" - both of which he responds to. If we see that he's about to lunge at the harness and bite it, then we tell him to sit - he also responds to that and will sit and wait. It took us a couple of days and a lot of cheese to desensitise him to the leash so we are preparing ourself for the harness desensitisation to take quite a bit longer. What we're doing is taking the harness off and putting it on again even if there is no walk/car ride.

As for the car trips, we've been taking him to the car, making him sit and wait and then jump up on the seat and then reward him when he's in the drop position. He was ghastly on the ride to obedience. On the ride back, however, he remained in a quiet drop position for most of the trip except for where there were sharp corners - at which point he would get very unsettled and bitey again.

ETA: I should add, Elbie sits peacefully for his puppy collar (kind of a snap fastener) but alas he now needs to wear a new leather collar with a buckle and so we have get him used to THAT now ...

Elbie quit with the jumping and biting some time ago but now and then when he was grabbing at our jeans, he'd get a bit of flesh in his mouth and that hurt a lot. He never went for flesh though - just fabric, but the accidental bites still hurt even though he never actually broke any skin.

Nonetheless, even though I wish it were not the case ... sometimes our puppy has caused injuries even though he is not usually a biter e.g. he doesn't get aggressive about food (you can stick your hand in his bowl), he doesn't get aggressive about toys (he'll 'let go' upon request).

Our injuries:

- during the class-room sessions of puppy class when our squirming puppy wouldn't keep still, I'd frequently get a random paw in the eye or worse, a claw down the face as his legs flailed around

- sometimes when we try to lure him with food he gets our fingers/hands in an attempt to get to the treat

- my OH tends to cuddle/play tug more with Elbie so he's had his hands/fingers bitten a few times by accident when Elbie's been aiming for the toy and he's got hand/fingers instead

- Elbie's settling down in the car a bit more but he still doesn't like it and on Sunday when the car when around a turn and he was jolted in the back seat, he started growling and biting a bit. I wasn't injured, but it wasn't fun

- we are still trying de-sensitise Elbie to his seatbelt harness. He hates it and will growl/snarl/snap when we try to put it on. Yesterday, he was snapping and although he didn't actually bite on my arm, he was certainly trying to and one of his teeth slashed my arm and cut the skin open. It's more than a scratch - it's actually a cut. Nonetheless, after many more treats and sessions of putting on harness and taking off harness, we got him a LOT calmer today when he'll actually sit there as harness is snapped around his neck, a loop goes around his right leg and another buckle snaps on his left side. I wish the harnesses weren't so fiddley - more opportunities for a flailing puppy to bite ...

Generally though he has a very soft mouth - if you put your fingers in his mouth, he gums them or will nibble very gently. Even when he looks like he's nipping at your fingers - if you keep still, I find that he is still just gumming and nibbling and not applying any pressure. I find that injuries take place when he's distracted and doesn't know what he's doing. I have no idea if we'll ever end up with a completely bite-free dog - sometimes when he's a bit bitey and obnoxious, I worry if we've done something along the way and if more experienced dog-parents would have managed to avoid a bitey little alien...

When he does bite and it's a painful one, I find it really hard not to be angry and take it personally. I can tell he doesn't really mean to do it but grrrrrr I know dogs don't feel guilt but Elbie always seems to know he's done something wrong because he'll give you a look and then turn on the appeasement behaviour - unsolicited sits and drops, puppy-dog eyes and that sort of thing.

Finally, our most interesting puppy-induced injury was when Elbie darted into the spare room of our new house ahead of my OH. The day earlier, Elbie had done the same thing, my OH had been too slow and Elbie had piddled all over the floor and a few bags, too because he still wasn't used to his new surroundings.... On the day in question, my OH dashed in after Elbie and was so busy scanning the floor for wet patches that he didn't look where he was going - he cracked his head hard on the corner of a shelf and cut his head :D

Isn't it the best feeling when they behave when you want them to.

Yup ... and I suppose our dogs like to keep us on our toes :D We came with a bag that was ridiculously over-prepared ... treats, stuffed toy, mat, poop bags ... the works

I believe Indi's owner is on DOL as well :D The little shiba puppy was soooo cute, such a confident little thing.

Ha! What a small world. I envy Indi's owner her puppy's temperament - sooooo calm and poised. And the shiba ... one day I'd like one - although I hear that they're very, very tough dogs.

Elbie had fun - he was pretty good around Indi even though India was a lot bigger, and he was also good when meeting the other dogs one on one - I am not sure if he is ever going to enjoy the off leash dog park thing ... We may have to arrange individual doggy dates for him or something.

Well done little Elbie ;) at a clever puppy.

Thanks - we were very relieved!

Sounds a good morning! He's a smart boy ...

Heh - what was funny though was when she said to the class: "Look at this little kelpie cross- what do his ears mean?" (Elbie's ears were kind of forward, straight and floppy). The class guessed correctly that it meant that he was paying attention. She asked what it meant if his ears were back and flat and then were told it meant that he was anxious/angry/afraid. The weird thing is that Elbie's ears often go flat and back when he's happy/excited/very interested in something new ;) I guess he didn't get the Dog Ear Semaphore Memo ...

This morning we attended Elbie's first obedience the class. Our class had a good variety of dogs and sizes. There was another kelpie border collie cross, a cavalier King Charles, a tiny Westie, a Siberian husky cross, a tall terrier, a short black terrier, a dog that looked like a tall dingo, a large brindle mastiff-looking dog and our neighbour...

This was my fluffy view for much of the class:

That's because my neighbour was a huge, rather gorgeous 10 month old Tibetan mastiff puppy named Indi who enjoyed slobbering on my knee or creeping over to encroach upon Elbie's mat ;)

Pretty amazing-looking dog, huh? Photo taken with the owner's permission

Indi looked even more huge next to Callum the Cav.

Despite her size and the fact that TMs are supposed to be guard dogs, Indi was incredibly placid and laid-back.

Strangely enough, although we had expected Elbie to be a disaster for his first class, he was actually very well behaved. I had worried that he'd tear all over the field or bark through the whole class.

We had been warned that it was very common for a puppy to be able to do the tricks at home but not be able to do them during class where there were many distractions.

We hadn't expected that Elbie would demonstrate such focus during the class even when other dogs were barking and there were clearly so many distractions around him. He obeyed all commands, walked very nicely on a loose leash and looked and behaved like the perfect little doggy.

I swear - we have never seen him so well-behaved and calm.

The teacher even warned us that it was important with such a responsive and clever dog not to become complacent because such dogs can try to do the bare minimum and see what they can get away with.

If only she knew that we are far from complacent because our little wriggler can be a real monster at times. We liked our teacher - sounds like she's a border collie owner and breeder so really understands dogs like Elbie.

After the class, Elbie returned almost immediately to his usual hyperactive temperament, almost as if he knew that class was over and he didn't have to behave any more. One of the other instructors said that it's because he's a working dog and when he knows he's 'off the clock', he reverts to being a crazy puppy.

We took him to the small off-leash area so that he could play with the other dogs. He was quite shy and appeared more interested in greeting people then dogs.

Funnily enough, there was a very cute little shiba inu puppy running around the yard with the big dogs who didn't seem to realise that he was a small puppy another big dog. Hopefully in time, Elbie will become more confident and willing to play with other dogs. It doesn't really help that some of the big dogs (lab and GR I think seem to enjoy ganging up on him and pinning him down. He didn't seem terrified though, so we will try again next week.

All in all, they were very happy with his performance during his first class. Fingers crossed that the good work continues. It was pretty cold out there today but it was a lot of fun. Elbie's getting better in the car, but getting his harness on and settling him in the car is still very hard work,

Hi - Elbie was/is a massive puller because he's so hyperactive and we got him a harness - but weirdly enough, when sufficiently motivated he walks very well with a flat collar. The harness just makes it easier for you to pull back on the dog but it doesn't actually stop the pulling so if you can train your dog to look at you, sit/drop back etc you'll find that he'll be fine on a flat collar. For us, we have been training him around the kitchen/house/yard where there are less distractions - we also use his favourite treats (cheese, chicken etc). He is still pulling on occasion but he's HEAPS better now

Oh KB...we're two peas in a pod. Although I am sure there are many members addicted.

hubby said he never sees me anymore. I am always on the 'forum'

Between this and facebook, you can count me out for the night.

Yes!!!! My OH also calls it "the forum" in a faintly exasperated, long-suffering tone. I can't help it - there are just SOOO many interesting topics/photos/arguments/debates going on in this place Also, some of the puppies are soooooooooooooooooo cute ...

Thanks to everyone for their responses. Elbie is now staying very nicely. He'll 'wait' for food even when we're around the corner and he can't see us and he will 'stay' when told with 'ok' as his release word.

We're still having some minor difficulties with fetch. He will race after the toy/ball and then hurtle back towards us. At first, he just wanted to play keepaway and wanted us to chase him around the yard/room We started clicker training with him this week and that's helped hugely and he's got to the point when he gets to within about a foot of us and drops the toy. We can't get him any closer, though.

I suspect that it's because he knows we're going to just throw it again and so he wants to position himself so that he can dart after the toy again. Elbie will perform tricks for toys, not just food but we did notice that when we asked him to 'drop' in exchange for a toy, he would see if he could get away with a half drop so that he could run after the toy quickly.

If he'd just get a bit closer with the toy we could click to encourage the behaviour but he keeps a cautious distance before dropping the toy. Even if we try to trade for a treat, he'll drop the toy a foot away and then come in for the treat. It also doesn't work if we try withholding the treat until he comes closer with the toy

Stuffed toy "Transplants" that's magical.

You are giving me all kinds of ideas now,

perhaps I can do some 'cross breeding'

Bwahaha - awesome idea!

Also - I'm glad to see someone else has become addicted to this forum, too My OH can't believe I spend so much time reading posts here when I have so many other things I'm supposed to be doing ;)

WHat age does the desctruction start? So far my puppy hasn't managed to destroy any toys yet but I'm sure it will come as she gets her adult teeth and her mouth gets bigger!

Like Puppy Sniffer said, I think it depends on the dog. If you look at this post, you'll see that fbaudry's dogs aren't chewers and their toys last. I'd guess that dogs start wanting to gnaw on things when they're a few months old ... We thought Elbie would prefer to gnaw on hard things, but he loves his plushies a lot.

belladonna: Sometimes I feel like quitting with the 'surgery' on the plushies but Elbie really does love them so much and given that a $4 plushie from Pet Barn gives him hours of enjoyment for weeks and weeks, I suppose it's worth it Also, we rotate his toys so when he hasn't seen Badger or Dog in a few days, he gets sooooooooo happy

Hee! Congrats. I know this forum is called puppy "problems" but it's always great to read about people's puppies - the good and not just the bad

Won't he go in the rain? It won't really hurt him to run in the rain

Haha, HE would definitely run in the rain ... it's just the pain of wet paw prints and mud that I'm trying to avoid :cool:

Young, growing dogs also need to learn how to control speed and direction ..and to experience controlled crashes/tackles,skids. It is the way they learn how their body works, and what they can do with it !

Thanks for that - I feel better now. His 'zoomies' in the yard always seem quite unstructured so his indoor zoomies made me worry that he we had OCD Puppy or something because he was just so precise about where he stopped each time. He doesn't hurt himself because he's very good about stopping - except with the empty cardboard boxes which he loves to crash into. My OH says that Elbie must be training to be a stunt dog or something.

Also- he is cute now, but in 10 mths time- do you want him climbing on your lap to chew a bone? ..... if not, then now is a good time to teach him commands- and make sure he knows his crate or bed is the BEST spot for chewing bones, etc

He's already getting pretty hefty! He knows "go to your mat", "go to your crate" and "down" and will obey all of the above pretty promptly - although he's sometimes a little bit naughty with the 'down' command. He definitely knows he's not supposed to jump up on the sofa. As to the lap thing ... my OH sits and plays with him on the floor and he just loves letting Elbie play in his lap even though I keep warning him that when Elbie's bigger and heavier it's not going to be so fun

cw_ew

I sometimes join her with the running around

I'm impressed! I wish I could keep up with Elbie! He runs like the wind!

It's night time right now and raining so we can't take him outside! I didn't realise that that's what the zoomies looked like inside - we've seen the zoomies outside in the yard where he hurtles around like a crazy loon but *in* the house it always looks so precise that we had no idea that that was the zoomies

Now and then, Elbie picks up his cloth chew toy and likes to sprint back and forth for the length of the room. It's a bit dark but you can see a video of an example

If there are hard surfaces, he will skid to a stop in time and then change direction and keep running. In the video above, there are empty card board boxes at one end of the room and he seems to enjoy crashing into them (they don't hurt him because they're empty) but if there was a wall or a door, he would definitely stop short. The running is quite precise and he'll stop and start in the same spot.

He can be interrupted with a request to sit/drop and you can pluck him up without him seeming fussed, but he likes jogging back and forth with his cloth chew toy in his mouth.

He gets exercise during the day - running around the yard/house with us, short sessions of obedience training and also short walks. After he's done with his sprint sessions, he'll plonk down in my OH's lap and chew on a toy ...

Wow she is getting big! how much does she weight now, out of interest? Elbie seems to be packing on the pounds while remaining quite svelte-looking :D

At this discussion on interesting name tags, I found out about these really lovely hand made dog name tags. We ordered one for Elbie and it arrived yesterday!

Front. E is for Elbie! Although we sometimes call him Elborino, Elbster or El-bo, depending on how we feel.

Back:

He's unimpressed by the tag, doesn't really change his day. Here he is lying in his dog bed watching me

Looks like such an uncomfortable sleeping position, though ;)

Elbie's first obedience class

Soft Toy Destruction

When we had problems with Elbie, we sought a dog-behaviourist

Yes ... they grow up so fast :'(

Elbie having the zoomies.

Your patching jobs are excellent! I contemplated resewing J.'s toys but I'm sure they it would cause more harm than good/

I have to confess that Elbie does have a particularly naughty habit of concentrating on bits that I've JUST repaired. I can HEAR him ripping up the seams I've just stitched! In the early days I tried stitching neatly with correctly coloured cloth but then as I realised that Elbie as just going to be the world's largest stitch unpicker - I just went random with the thread colour and made my stitches big and sloppy

amypie: the Skinneez look very practical but a little little bit scary

shellsboers: Hahahahaha! I admit, we do feel a pang of sympathy for the poor stuffed animals ... they suffer so much!

evolving: sometimes Elbie will be chewing away quietly and look up at us with stuffing hanging from his mouth - I'm never sure whether to find it gruesome or funny