koalathebear

We took Elbie to the vet this morning for his final set of shots. He's on worming tablets this month and July and then we were supposed to bring him back in August for a heartworm injection. I mentioned to the vet that we didn't want him having the injection because we'd heard that some dogs can have an adverse reaction to the annual shot and that we'd prefer having him on monthly chews. Our vet's really nice but she gave me a really baleful look and she had never heard of an adverse reaction to the annual heartworm shot and that it would be more expensive if we chose to go with monthly meds.

I said we'd still prefer to go with the monthlies rather than take the risk and then she shrugged and said fine but we had to make sure we never missed a dose and we did it on time. Then she said she'd order in the yummier chews for us.

Goldengirl85 - thanks for that suggestion. I think we'll try a different harness. We tried clipping him in and ignoring him but his current harness even when shortened allows him to walk around and even fall off the seat so we can't leave him in the back alone when he's howling and being a brat ... I had to go back there and sit with him when we were taking him to the vet today. We'll be better at 'ignoring' him if he's securely strapped in...

Sigh. Elbie was desexed at 10 weeks and he still tries humping things - toys, my boyfriend's arm and my leg for some reason. We try to discourage him and he doesn't do it all the time, but now and then he just gets really humpy The really bizarre thing is that he has a little plushy dog that doesn't even look like a dog and just looking at it makes him go into humpy spasms

The laundary is quite cool, but she has a blacket and also a warmed-up bean bag thingy to keep her warm. Wil try doing a big play session before bed time. She already knows how to sit, shake hands, come, up and drop (sort of). But I will teach her some new tricks. No one comes down to her or yells at her.

Hopefully this behaviour will just go away after she is more settled in?

Hi, I mentioned what we did with our puppy over here in this thread. He screamed, barked, howled, yipped, wailed and cried for three whole nights - pretty much non-stop. He was in our bedroom, too!!! In the end the only thing that worked for us was having him close enough to our bed that he could see us and we could put our fingertips in his crate so that he could lick them/smell them. Since you can't take the dog upstairs, perhaps try putting a radio next to the crate - Radio National is good because it has a lot of late night conversation and voices.

Good luck! Also, Elbie has a large crate in the kitchen but when we first got him, we kept him in one of those smaller travel crates. If you had one of those, perhaps your parents wouldn't mind if that was sitting next to your bed?

I have been known to shave tennis balls

Hahaha! I haven't done that yet - although I know I look ridiculous for the amount of time I sit there stitching up his plushy badger, beaver and dog - they've had so many operations I can't believe they're still 'alive'

*

In other news - our Aussie Dog Home Alone Hanging Ball came today. We ordered it from Pet Wares Plus because it was the most reasonably priced one (including postage). Some of the sites were ridiculous in terms of price. It was a lot larger than we expected - we selected 'medium' for Elbie because he's a kelpie x.

He was a bit wary of it at first but seems to love it now. See

Have you tried spending time with him in the car without actually going on any trips.

Weirdly enough, we have done this. We felt very goofy doing it - one of us in the front and one of us in the back for half an hour. We'll probably try it again. One of the problems is that Elbie seems to want to go and explore and a moving car just isn't the place to explore

Perhaps play with him outside and tire him, and then let him have a nap in the car for 15 minutes (supervised of course). After having done this a few times, tire him before the next trip and see if he associates this with sleep time even though the car is moving.

We used to be able to tire Elbie out - doing 5-10 minutes of obedience training used to make him curl up and sleep like a baby afterwards but these days, he's getting so good at the various tricks he already knows that it seems quite effortless for him and he doesn't get tired!! He has his final set of booster shots on Monday so after that we can take him for short walks - we're hoping that will tire him out a little bit and then perhaps we'll get him into a car.

I have my own issues with car travel with katie. She gets incredibly car sick and vomits.

I read that in your other post! I'm so sorry to hear that. When my partner and I are pulling faces at Elbie's car monkey noises, I do remind him that we're lucky he doesn't get car sick The vet said that DAP spray might work on Elbie but also said that it might have the reverse effect because it might make him feel too relaxed and even MORE boisterous - if that's even possible ;D Our puppy is this whirling tornado of pure energy. I suspect he could power a small town.

We've been trying to get Elbie used to car travel. He has a funky harness and looks super cute and funky in it. Depending on your view, it looks like he's in commando gear or in bondage gear.

Anyway, the harness clicks into one of the seatbelts in the backseat. For now, one of us sits in the back with him and one of us drives. The problem is that while he doesn't get car sick and he wants to get into the car - when he open the front door, he scoots around to the back left door of the car and then jumps up on the seat of his own volition - he gets pretty agitated in the car.

Naturally he wants to look out the window, which is fine but then he'll start whimpering and making really pitiful sounds as though he's being tortured. Then the next minute he'll be happy and fine again - then he'll start making strange monkey sounds. I'm hoping that as he gets bigger and can see out the window properly he'll be less freaked out as it must be terrifying to be in a moving metal box with a restricted view of the outside world. Treats and favourite toys don't seem to work.

I look at the cars with those dogs that sit very majestically in the back seat, taking the corners easily and looking most at ease as their owners drive around town and I wonder how they trained their dogs to do it Does anyone have any tips? We can't crate him when driving because Elbie's getting too big and any crate that could fit him wouldn't fit in our back seat (Mazda 3 sedan) - and would have to be jammed in at an angle, which is not something we're going to do. Thanks heaps in advance!

It's more the anti-breeder/anti-pedigree sentiment that concerns me and it's starting to rear it's ugly head again.

Maybe I haven't read all the threads but I've spent a lot of time on the boards since getting my puppy and I've learned so much from all the people on the forum with experience. I feel quite humbled when I read about all the time and effort the breeders on this forum spend on their dogs. I have a mongrel puppy now and when I was a kid we also had a mutt - a pure-bred/pedigree dog always seemed to be something very extravagant/beyond our reach/luxurious so it was never something I would have considered... much like a yacht or chateau or something It was only after joining this forum that I realised the ongoing support and assistance that many breeders give their puppies even after they have gone to new homes. Before being on this forum, I had been one of the people who assumed that mongrels were healthier having heard all about HD in GSDs etc and it was only after reading more on this forum that I realised that this isn't necessarily the case and it depends on the breeds being mixed etc.

I knew when I joined the forum that it was a pure breed dog forum but I read enough before posting to see that the posters were helpful and welcoming of all people, including mutt-owners which is the only reason I dared to post. Sometimes more negative posts sound like they're dominating discussions, but I hope you know that there are probably a lot of mutt-owners like me who are pleased to be permitted to participate and learn.

Eeek! We're just about to get dog door for Elbie - I wonder if we should reconsider

Hi BellaDonna: It's so nice to meet you. There have been heaps and heaps of lovely people on this discussion forum - particularly in this forum and it's nice to meet such helpful people. Katie is so beautiful. Puppies are so cute when they're in their snub-nosed, roly-poly state! Elbie's getting a lot sleeker and leaner so with a pang, we can feel him leaving his puppy physique behind him - although his behaviour still remains quite puppy-like

It sounds like you have heartfelt dedication and really love him (mind you who wouldn't love such an adorable pup) Well done on conquring this 'phase'

It's my partner's first dog - he's a cat person. For me, I had a lab/bc when I was growing up but I'm ashamed to say that I was like a lot of kids - wanted the puppy but the primary burden probably fell to my parents after the initial novelty wore off. Thereafter, I'd feel him and take him for walks and I attended beginner obedience with him but I never really took the time to try to get to know him and train him properly. He had a good life but mostly he was this mysterious creature who lived in our backyard who was well fed and very healthy - but never really part of the family. That made me feel sad so I made up my mind that I'd try to do better by Elbie and spend as much time with him during his puppy days so that when I have to start going to work again in a month or so - he'll have at least had a solid foundation.

I'm still waiting for Katie to hit this phase. She amazingly has not started the whole herding and ankle biting yet, but I am sure it's not far away, so I am arming myself with all the advice I can get in anticipation. We are just starting the jumping up behaviour but we seem to be dealing with it OK. I have been very very lucky with my puppy so far.

You might be one of the lucky ones! Perhaps Katie will never go through the phase. It was incredibly frustrating for us. One moment we had a lovely, sweet affectionate little pup who just wanted to be cuddled all the time to a bizarre little alien who kept attacking our legs. We could even see the moment coming on, one minute he'd be running around our feet playing with us - his head would turn - he'd stare at our jeans, snark and then attack. We were joking it was some kind of ancient kelpie battle rage ... or if you watch "Legend of the Seeker", it was like Kahlan going into the Con Dar (Blood Rage). Some people were telling us to seek a behaviourist but other people were saying just hang in, keep trying, it will pass - and thank goodness, it did pass

Thank goodness the a few squirts with the water spray let him know that his behaviour wasn't acceptable and these days while we still see his herding instinct kicking in, he keeps it to his toys and doesn't inflict it on us The jumping is something we have been working on. I have to confess sometimes I haven't been as strict as I should because he'll jump up when I'm sitting at the computer but it's clear that he just wants affection because he'll rest his head on my knee and look very cute. Nonetheless, the jumping is bad - for his bones and for his behaviour so we have been praising him when he's not jumping.

I keep wondering if there is something wrong. I have a friend who is a dog trainer and she calls Katie the Labrador in the blue heeler jacket as she is so incredibly easy going.

Don't question, just be thankful! I sometimes wonder if our dog is part labrador because he likes eating soooooooooo much He pretty much inhales his food in - no one ever taught him how to chew.

Again, I am sorry for the lengthy post, I really just wanted to say WELL DONE !

Please don't apologise - your words are really appreciated and it's always lovely to hear from another dog lover I look forward to reading all about the beautiful Katie's exploits.

fbaudry: thanks heaps for that link. You're right - the prices there are the best that I've seen so far!

I adore that photo you've posted - your darling is beautiful ... although I'm not sure how long that toy would last with Elbie. He's in massive chew phase right now

A few people arn't too sure on the name 'ava'. they want me to change it!

She's slowly getting the hang of 'sit' now - espically around dinner time! Last night i was preparing it and she sat right in the middle of the kitchen watching my every move.

I'll send you a message with some photos!

I don't think you can change her name now!!! It's already her name!

I saw the photos - oh my goodness, I wanted to hug my computer monitor she is so cute. I really wanted to get a labrador puppy or golden retriever puppy at first instance but my boyfriend (who is a cat person and normally doesn't like dogs) said that labs/goldies were too generic for him and he wanted something different Fortunately Elbie is adorable and as a young puppy looked quite labradorish

Congrats on the sit Sit is actually kind of easy - you don't even have to push down on her rump. Usually if you hold a treat above her nose and lift it gradually she'll just naturally plonk her butt down in a sit

My post above was in response to your post below stating "Our puppy wasn't from a backyard breeder". From your post I gather you don't fully understand what a backyard breeder is, so I posted some definitions to clarify what a backyard breeder is. It was not a criticism of your pup or of you procuring your dog from a backyard breeder, it was simply to correct your mistaken belief that your puppy wasn't from a backyard breeder, irrespective of whether any money changed hands.

Thanks for the clarification I shouldn't have been so defensive.

I guess I just feel bad at the thought of condemning the nice lady who sold us the puppy as one of those evil backyard breeders I keep have been reading about. I know that a responsible owner should have made sure her dog was desexed but I'm not aware of the circumstances surrounding why their dog was still intact. I am also aware that some might say that the owner should have taken the dogs to a shelter or rescue where potential owners would be vetted but part of me can't help thinking that she probably thought that she was taking responsibility for her actions.

First of all, she was the owner of the father and not the mother of the dogs but she had clearly taken on the responsibility of looking after, feeding and socialising the six pups with her children, cats and other dogs. When Elbie came to us, he already had very basic training and knew how to sit properly when waiting and asking for things. It's quite possible that the owner of the bitch had wanted to dump the puppies, which was why the seller ended up looking after all of them and also the mother as well during and after the pregnancy.

The seller could have taken the pups to a shelter or dumped them at the pound but for some reason she chose to look after them at her own cost for eight weeks before giving them away and also continuing to follow up on their progress after they had left her care. When we were driving there to get the pup, I had mentioned to my boyfriend that I intended to ask the seller why she hadn't had her dog desexed when the law (at least ACT law) has compulsory desexing unless you're a breeder/intending to show the dog etc but after meeting her, I decided not to ask that question ...

If we get another dog I'd very much like to get a rescue doggy but for now, I can see that accidents might sometimes happen and the puppies end up being the innocent victims.

I know exactly how you feel my nearly nine week old puppy is gorgeous and when she is tired she is an angel, but when she is excited to chews/bites everything.. constantly for hours on end. she prefers biting your finger,toes and pant legs rather than chew toys. saying no stops her for a moment and then it begins again, if i ignore her she starts jumping and barking. It can be extremely frustrating when you just want her to calm down and stop biting. have you found any solutions yet?

pomchi: To our profound happiness and relief - Elbie's stopped attacking our legs and biting when he's in turbo mode. He is sometimes a little bit bitey and he is still very jumpy when excited but he seems to have dropped the weird behaviour where he went into feral mode and tried to devour our jeans There were a good two weeks when EVERYTHING seemed to remind him of our tasty jeans

We tried all of the other options - yipping, yelping, leaving the room, stopping play, ignoring, holding his mouth closed, distracting him etc etc. We did NOT try biting his ear or snout like some people recommend Our vet's nurse kept telling us to just ignore him but that really did NOT work. The vet's nurse stops him jumping by giving him a treat but Elbie is so food focussed that he will drop ANYTHING if there's food around and we didn't want to have to rely on food all the time.

The solution we used in the end is likely to incur disapproval from many. We used a water spray bottle. When he went into attack mode, we sprayed him in the face with water, trying to make sure he didn't see where the water was coming from. For some dogs this isn't appropriate because:

- they might be shy dogs/very young and a water spray might be traumatic

- they may become savvy to the fact that they can get away with attacking and biting when you DON'T have a water spray handy

We were lucky with Elbie. We think that perhaps he thought that it was all a big game to bite us and the water spray in the face was the only thing that told him: "No, this isn't good behaviour." At any rate, we didn't have to spray him more than a few times before he stopped doing it altogether.

I'd be a bit hesitant about water spraying your puppy right now if it's still so young. Maybe try the other techniques first that seem to work for most other people. I'd only resort to the water spray if you get desperate like we did

Some definitions of backyard breeders:

• An owner whose pet may have an unplanned litter by accident, or who breeds on purpose. Common reasons cited include: making extra money
  
• A person who casually breeds purebred dogs with little or no regard to the breed standard, genetically linked defects or temperament.
  
• Somebody who owns and breeds dogs for the purpose of resale with out proving through showing, and health checks, that the dog is worthy of being bred
  

Our puppy and his brothers and sisters were being given away for free ... although we did have to drive for an hour to Goulburn to pick him up. I very much regret posting now because clearly some people disapprove of where we got our puppy ... but we weren't deliberately trying to do the wrong thing. We hadn't even considered getting a dog until a few years later but we had grown attached to a dog at the local pound - unfortunately it wasn't possible to get him and at around that time, we saw the ad for the kelpie/bc puppies. We had read a lot saying that the kelpie/border collie cross can be a lovely combination.

The seller was very friendly, emailed a few days after we picked up our puppy to find out if he was going all right and gave us a lot of helpful advice about settling him in when he was crying at night as well as details of what he had been eating, what he might be missing from his old home etc. Clearly she was very anxious to make sure the puppy went to a good home and given that she'd just given us our puppy for free, she was under no obligation to help out. We sent her a lot of pictures of our puppy and videos, too which her son loved.

I am not anti pure-bred dogs at all, nor am I critical of breeders of pure bred dogs it's just that my first dog was a labrador/border collie and he was very lovable and my current puppy is also wonderful despite his mixed blood. It doesn't mean that I want to set up or join a forum solely for cross-breeds. I realise that this is a pure bred dog forum but the forum members have been generally been very welcoming of all dog owners regardless of the parentage of the doggies and I've received a lot of advice here which was much appreciated. We never would have bought our puppy from a puppy mill or a pet shop but having considered the home where we bought our puppy, we concluded that the litter was a genuine mistake and the puppies that were being given away were of the age and type for which we had been looking ...

Ava's a beautiful name, but like you I was a little confused when I saw another Ava puppy around.

I feel a bit guilty about Elbie's name. His original name was L.B. i.e. Little Bastard for when he was being a brat. He's Elbie when he's cute

Hi Michelleva - good to 'speak' with you

We've also had some success with the water bottle - Elbie plays with his empty and bats it around. We also bought a decent quality basketball that he can't puncture or destroy and he bats that around as well. He hasn't quite learned how to play with it though - still thinks he's supposed to bite it instead of bat it around with his nose and paws.

Although the price made me cringe a LOT, I've just placed an order for the home alone hanging ball - we're hoping that it is one of the things that will keep him entertained when we eventually start leaving him in the backyard when we're at work. Apparently the toy is very good and someone on the other thread (I think a rottie owner) says they're great and if they can withstand a rottie, then it should be fine for us

The Nina Ottosson website has a lot of toys but they're all very expensive. I keep thinking that there must be other ways to achieve the same object

My mutt was $250 from rescue and he came desexed, vaccinated, with basic training. I would NEVER buy from a backyard breeder when there are so many beautiful dogs in rescue. I wouldn't even take one for free!

Our puppy wasn't from a backyard breeder - I think there must have been accidental puppies because the owner didn't desex their (male) dog but you raise an interesting question. I see why you wouldn't take a free puppy from a backyard breeder because it's further encouraging the practice to continue but what about the fate of those puppies? Don't they need rescue, too?

$6,000 are you serious? I can't see how any breeder can justify that kind of money for an 8 week old pup?

Heh heh. As Janba correctly mentioned above, that sort of price for a kelpie is for a working kelpie. Article is here:

Dog Lovers Pay $6K for Aussie kelpies

I'm not actually sure how much a pure bred non-working kelpie goes for

Haha, na not named after Ava Gardner, searching dog names/baby names and that was one that stood out! I wanted one that wasn't too common.

I love the way you described all the puppies at the school! Its so cute how they all have their own little personalities. Im going to ring a few up soon - my vet does one at 5 weeks (first week you dont bring pup) for $100, but theres a dog Obidence School which does it for 4 weeks at $40. Plus they do all the other obidence training too. It'll be interesting to see how she goes with other pups. She hasn't been timid so far with anything, so hopefully she'll be fine. Na you seem to have trained him to do some good stuff in those videos! I think we would be able to train Ava, she seems clever but all she does is want to play, jump and bite!

Those photos are just so cute. He looks so tiny! Yeah good idea, she seems to be chewing everything at the moment - including us!

Wuffles - one of the other forum members also has a puppy named Ava - not a golden retriever though :D It's a lovely name.

The puppies at our puppy class are awesome - and we don't know the names of any of their owners, just the puppies

Ava's still very young. When Elbie came to us, he already sat very nicely. Every time we turned around he was sitting there looking up at us with puppy dog eyes. We watched a lot of the youtube videos and found the techniques that seemed easiest to us and fitted them into our routine with Elbie. The thing is, puppies have a very short attention span so you can only train for a few minutes and you have to stop if they get frustrated. Elbie loves the obedience work though and you can really see him pondering things.

You should probably just be worrying about sit, drop and wait/stay at this point for Ava. If she's food motivated, then a good time to train her is around meal times. Elbie is SUPER SUPER eager to please at meal times. Good luck! :D Can't wait to see more photos. She is soooooo cute.

I read on one of the other threads about Nina Ottoson toys that are supposed to stimulate a dog's mind. They're very expensive so someone had posted a less exxy alternative, being a

I got a muffin tin, put little treats at the bottom of each tin and then a ball on top.

At the first instance, Elbie was clearly very baffled. He sat there and stared at me in a very puzzled fashion - almost as if he was waiting for me to feed him. After I said: "OK" - his normal signal allowing him to eat after waiting, he ambled forward and sniffed at the muffin tin. After a while, he started pawing at it. Video

Eventually, he learned how to

The problem is that the tennis balls have that awful fluff on them. We have one kong ball which is great but kong products are so expensive and we have already spent way tooo much money spoiling our puppy with dog toys. Does anyone know any cheaper ball alternatives that aren't as expensive as kong but aren't as fluffy and bad for puppy tummies as tennis balls?

Secondly, does anyone have any other good, easy to make mind games for dogs? Nothing that involves sewing or carpentry please because those are very much beyond my poor abilities ...

I have a friend who did give all of a litter away except for on she sold for a pittance, not because she didn't have buyers for the pupos but because they were the right homes where the pups would realise their potential.

That's very rare, though! Generally pedigree doggies are pretty expensive! We got our little mongrel for free but a pure bred kelpie can go for as much as $6,000.

Also, I did want to reiterate that I have absolutely no problem with pedigree breeders charging money for their puppies - a lot of time, effort and money went into those puppies. I just think it's a little odd that one of the primary condemnations of designer dog breeders is that they do it for financial gain. Don't most people work for financial gain with job satisfaction being a side benefit? :D

In any case, much as I love the look of the pure breed doggies (I would love to have a shiba inu!), I can't imagine ever spending so much money on buying a pedigree dog when there are so many other less fortunate dogs in need of a home. It's not that we're stingy either ... even raising a mongrel puppy becomes very expensive after all the vaccinations, desexing, puppy classes, obedience ... and the squillions and squillions of treats and dog toys

[Ooops - I just re-noticed that I'm on Dogs Online - Australia's PURE BRED dog community. *slinks away sheepishly into the mongrelly shadows* :D ]

goldee - I hope you're not feeling too anxious/overwhelmed after making your post I know the feeling all too well of: "OMG, I've committed yet another cardinal sin in puppy-raising that can't be rectified and my poor puppy's fledgling psyche is scarred forever!!!"

I agree with everyone else that it's probably not great that poor Ava's getting mixed training signals from family members but hopefully you'll be able to assert your position as her owner. Ava's a cute little puppy - everyone wants to play with her but eventually the novelty will wear off and you'll be the one sorting out everything - including all the less glam stuff like poo and bad puppy manners :D Hang in there and stay strong ... :D I know it can be hard - I don't even live with my family anymore and their disapproval over the way we treat Elbie can be a bit tough sometimes. They think we spoil him (i.e. not wanting to leave him alone for too long at once) and that he's of working dog stock so should be tougher.

As for our household, we didn't know that only one person is supposed to do all the training so both my boyfriend and I train Elbie and he seems fine and very happy with it. We are generally both around for training sessions, though, so we do try to keep consistent and Elbie doesn't seem confused at all about our commands - we're training him to respond to both voice and hand gestures. I was the one who started teaching him "are you shy" and my boyfriend helped with getting it more polished. My boyfriend trained Elbie how to spin and I gave suggestions.

For obedience classes though, just to make sure it's not confusing at all, my boyfriend will be his handler and I'll watch from the sidelines - I'll help with obedience practice at home.

Aren't people cool with the doberman which is a relatively recent cross-breed in the scheme of things? It's popular even though it frequently has a lot of health difficulties?

I'm not sure I really understand the problem with cross-breeding. People say that designer dogs or trendy cross-breeds are bad because they're for financial gain but one might say that even breeders of pure bred dogs are in it for financial reasons as well as the love of the breed - otherwise they'd give their dogs away for free or just charge for costs incurred etc ...

I'd only see a problem with cross-breeding if they were deliberately making a dog that was going to have a lot of health problems.

That being said, my own beloved puppy is a mongrel (kelpie/border collie) and actually - so am I! My own puppy seemed to come from a happy home - his parents didn't seem to be exploited or mistreated.

I love Charles' expression in that latest photo - it's hilariously cute!!