koalathebear

It'll be interesting to see what she's like when i take her to puppy school. Did you take Elbie to one?

Ava's a lovely name - named after Ava Gardner?

Elbie's going to puppy school. He attends puppy class with:

- a gorgeous but grumpy bull terrier named Winston who is built like a block of wood and won't sit no matter what anyone tells him to do

- a huge, boisterous six month old boxer puppy named Lloyd who can sit but not drop, does happy wees and begs for food shamelessly

- a HUGE rhodesian ridgeback/rottweiler cross named Geoffrey who is beautiful

- a terrified little cavalier king charles named Alfie who spends all of the playtime hiding between the legs of my OH

- a schnauzer with anxiety issues and a very blingy collar

He enjoys it a lot although he doesn't really play that much with the other puppies. The big ones chase him around and he evades them with ease. When the three biggies gang up on him they pin him to the ground easily. Most of the time he just runs around and hoovers up the treats that the others ignore. I think puppy classes are a good idea, though. He'll start formal obedience later this month though which is excellent - we're very excited about that because he's very keen to learn and so far we've been teaching him off youtube videos and our technique is probably really crap.

Thanks! Those beds look pretty good. I've seen ones in PetStock that a material round, and the largest ones are SO expensive. We just have a dog bed from cheap as chips - its a good soft comfy one but she tends to roll off it and sleep half on it and half off it!.

Elbie had a cushion he used to fall off as well.

That's why the pet basket's so ideal with its sides. I'd stick with your current bed for now until Ava gets too big for it/chews it to bits - then upgrade to a bigger bed.

Ava didn't like her crate. Barely used it since i bought it! It seemed like she felt 'caged in'. She LOVES the outdoors so maybe at the breeders she was kept outside in open areas, as oposed to being closed in a small space.

Not all dogs take to crates - Elbie doesn't like his outdoor kennel much. We put food and kongs in the back and he goes in there to get them and brings them outside to eat You'll have to start an Ava thread here so we can enjoy her progress!

Elbie's crack commando training (i.e. learning how to crawl continues

Also, I have no idea if anyone else's dog does it but our puppy honks when he's feeling sooky. He used to honk when he wanted to be picked up, these days he honks for his hot water bottle and also for attention generally. I think it makes him sound like a squeaky balloon

I love THESE ones!

stormie - those dog tags are BEAUTIFUL. I'd wear one myself!

I think people always get a little bit hot under the collar about this issue because dogs are lovable I think the fundamental problem lies with the fact that as a developing nation, China has yet to reach optimum standards regarding animal protection. It's not just dogs - it's animals generally. That's not to say that there isn't animal cruelty and suffering in places like Australia - but we have legislation and more generalised societal disapproval of the mistreatment of animals. People who think that pigs, chickens and other animals don't suffer before they're humanely killed in Australia are just deluding themselves. If you really want to push it, who's to say that vegetarians are in the right, either - no one has proved that vegies don't suffer?

I lived and worked in China from 2005 until last year and before that, studied and travelled there quite frequently. I do believe that it's wrong to assume that all Chinese like to eat dog or endangered animals blah blah. It's kind of like the generalisation that Koreans like to eat dog meat. I had a lot of Korean classmates and friends and I think only ONE of them ate dog meat and that was occasionally and from some traditional believe that it gave strength when one was feeling poorly. Most of my Korean friends said that only 'old people' ate dog meat. Dog meat also wasn't rampant on the streets of Beijing - you had to go looking for it.

I'm a dog lover, I have a puppy, I would never ever eat dog meat - but I don't condemn the eating of dog meat per se. I just wouldn't do it myself, just the same way my brother would never eat turtles because he loves turtles, my mother in law would never eat mutton or lamb because she loves sheep and so forth. There are plenty of people who are horrified that people eat pigs (intelligent), rabbits and lambs (cute), kangaroo (a national animal on our coat of arms!!!)

Dog meat is still eaten by some but to be honest, like many things in China, it's the beat-up in the West that gives it a certain notoriety/popularity. For instance, you can buy live, writhing scorpions on skewers in Wangfujing Food Street. In my whole time there, I never saw a Chinese person buying and eating those - it was always laughing/goofing around foreigners (lots of Aussies!) taking photos, buying them and frequently even eating them for the camera. If it wasn't for the foreign tourists making such a fuss over the bizarre foods there, I doubt the food street would still even sell those bizarre kebabs. Similarly the furore about dog meat. I'm told that the dogs are specially bred for eating - it's not that they come and take Fido from your yard and gobble him. In Gansu Province, we had the choice of eating camels and donkeys in Mongolia it was tough old goat, in Xian there was dog in the street - I think culturally in many of those places, people ate the meat that was available. Revolting as it seems, I have no problem with it as long as the animal doesn't suffer.

I think people should focus more on the treatment of the animal than the animal itself. For instance, I was extremely irate to learn about the puppies being sold on the street. Here we know about puppy mills and backyard breeders, it's a LOT worse in China. Quite frequently you'll see guys on street corners selling the most adorable little balls of fur and cuteness that you will ever see. You should never buy from them - this article tells you why - dodgy people dye the poor puppies so that they're the most popular colours. The puppies that don't perish while being boiled will frequently die soon after because of their ordeal. That sort of thing can only be stopped through education - increasing of public awareness. That's why I think the message should be more about: "Don't treat animals cruelly" than "don't eat dog or other cute animals."

Also, for those who seem to think that 'Chinamen' are cruel - I went to the Siberian Tiger Park when I was in Harbin for the ice lantern festival. At that park, for RMB1,000 you could feed a live cow to the tigers - watching them rip it apart. For RMB500, a live pig - all the way down to a live chicken. The average Chinese can't afford to spend that kind of money feeding a tiger - it's mostly foreigners who go there and do it for a lark. In fact, while I was there I watched an Australian family buy a chicken, laugh and take photos as they dangled the unfortunate animal from a stick and watch it be ripped apart by a tiger. I'm not vegetarian, I eat chicken but I was pretty disgusted by the glee that they took in it. Of course I'm not saying that all Aussies are like that - I think I'm just trying to say that cruelty to animals isn't a national trait, it's still an individual characteristic.

will your dog be able to see these dogs or did you stand on something to get this shot??

He won't be able to see them. That photograph was taken from our carport out the front of the house.

The round tag on this one here gives you lots of space, but not exactly fancy looking

quickbrownfox: That was actually perfect! We didn't need fancy, just needed more space for all of our info! We've just ordered Elbie's tag and it has his name, and rego number on the front and on the back - our phone numbers, address and email address Thank so much for the link.

We have one of the Home along dog toys - think it was about $90 when we bought it - the kelpie loves it - I want some of those with no stuffing in them - I hate picking up white fluff!!

I really like the idea of that Home Alone dangling ball dog toy but it's just so expensive ... Our kelpie would love it, though I'm sure ...

He shouldn't be able to chase the food because it should be right in front of his nose, get him to drop & then crawl underneath something ie depending on how big he is, something like the rungs on a chair, or your leg when you are sitting on the ground with one foot flat on the ground etc.

Thank you! That's a great idea! He likes to leap over things (he's so kelpie ) but we have seen him crawling under chair rungs and the stool so that might just work The funniest thing is that while he's doing all these complicated things - we just cannot get him to do a simple 'stand' and a 'stay' even though he will 'wait' forever when there's food on the line.

ETA: Here is

Elbie learning how to crawl. Unlike little dogs, if you put the food in front of his nose he just tries to gobble it. If you move it further away, he jumps to his feet and chases after it. Thus we're trying to teach him to crawl under stools first and then later remove the stool.

It does look a bit as though he's learning to be a commando

He is so adorable - those ears and eyes are to die for! Where did you get that type of bed from (the black/red one - in the pictures and you tube clip?)

What a shame you're so far away! I'm sure our puppies would LOVE to play together Wouldn't they look so cute and lovable???

We bought the dog bed from Pet Barn. Alas, they don't seem to have a Pet Barn in South Australia but don't worry, I'm sure you can buy them in any pet store. It's called a Bona Fido Stay Dry Basket and comes in a bunch of sizes. We got the largest one we could find for Elbie - even though it's a bit big for him now, he's very comfy in it and curls up in the corners or sprawls. Sometimes he lounges back in the corner as if it's a fancy lounge suite

Also, what's awesome about it is that so far it's chew-resistant :p We do tell him "no biting" if we catch him gnawing on the straps or sides but so far it's stood up to his teeth and claws very well. The cushion on the inside also clips in so he can't drag it out. He loves it because he uses his crate for sleeping in at night and if he's feeling a bit scared e.g. last night when I was using the electric mixer he ran to his crate - but otherwise, he likes the dog bed because we put it near our computers and he can hang out near us. He'll sleep in it and also just lie there playing with his chew toys for ages.

Hope all is going well with your little puppy girl She looked so beautiful in the photos you shared in the puppy thread.

he is adorable you got the same bed for him i have for our boy he loves his bed, puts himself to bed if we stay up to late for him lol and thats in out bedroom

dandybrush: it's a great bed and so far has proved very puppy proof!!! The sides are great for him to lean against, he looks very cute when he leaps in and the cushion and base have withstood attempts at biting. We do exile him if he bites on the straps though. Elbie loves it so much and will spend hours sleeping/playing in the bed - one of our best puppy purchases so far!

Wow, $112 for this. It's a great idea but I wonder if I can find a cheaper version somewhere!!

We were hoping for ones with more room because most places just seem to have the pet's name and one phone number. We were hoping for the pet's name, two phone numbers plus Elbie's registration number so that we don't have to put the crappy plastic yellow registration loop on his collar. It's compulsory for him to display his registration number but we find the yellow loop awfully clumsy ...

They'd honestly prefer you to crate a growing puppy for 8 hours?

That or not go to work unless you have a job that lets you come home at lunch time to let it out. I believe it's quite common in the US for even really large dogs to get crated for 8-10 hours a day ... I think a lot of the people who say that the dog should never be left in the yard either don't work or work from home.

We don't lose dogs to bears and coyotes here either. Just because some Americans seem to be paranoid about dog safety doesn't mean they don't have good cause to be!

I can understand the reluctance to leave a dog alone in the yard if it's that cold or if there is no fence or if it's a dog-unfriendly city ... but I wasn't very impressed with the assumption that all parts of the world were like where they were from. Fortunately there WERE a few Americans on the forum who agreed that the choice to leave puppy/dog in the yard should depend on individual circumstances rather than making generalisations.

He's such a clever little Boy and very very cute.

Thanks leighw - we think so :p We're very happy with Elbie's progress. He's a very loving and affectionate dog. He's about to face his first Canberra winter, though ;) As I see you're also in Canberra, I'm sure you know what I mean when I say brrrrrrr!

We're moving soon - from the house that we're renting into a house that we've bought. It will mean some very big changes. Because this current place is a rental, Elbie has been confined to the kitchen and the backyard. He's wandered through the house very briefly but under supervision because the rented house is carpeted and we just didn't want to risk any damage to the landlord's carpet and furniture.

In our new place, there will be some Big New Things:

- floors are laminate not carpeted so in theory, Elbie should be able to have access to more of the house (under supervision of course)

- we'll have a dog door in the kitchen

- neighbours on three sides have dogs. Out of interest does anyone know what kind of dogs these are? They're very noisy and howl all the time

What we've done so far:

- we're puppy-proofing the yard still. The fences are standard height colour-bond so we're considering going to Bunnings to make the fences higher given that kelpies can jump fences. At this stage, Elbie doesn't seem like a jail-breaker and seems pretty happy to hang out at home but we have no idea how he'll be in the new place

- we've identified a suitable toilet spot in the yard. At present, we were just so relieved to have him eliminating outdoors that we weren't too fussed where he pooped but alas, that leads to time-consuming poo-patrols and Stinky Land Mines when we were going out in the yard in the dark :p

- we have taken him out to the new place a few times to slowly get him used to it. He's wandered around once in the yard on a lead and once off lead but with us following close behind. We put a puppy pad in the place we want him to use as his toilet and so far he's gone there a few times so he seems to realise that's where he's supposed to go

- we have let him explore the house (before any furniture's in there) on his leash

When I was cleaning the kitchen, he was running around crying a lot in the new kitchen and seemed a bit distressed but we're hoping that once we have his crate and dog bed there, he'll be more settled and won't be so anxious.

When we move in, we'll be keeping him on a leash even inside until we're sure that his house-training holds up.

Does anyone have any cautionary tales or suggestions that they can give me from when they moved house with their puppy? I know he'll find his first night in the new kitchen quite bewildering even if he is in his normal crate so we'll make sure he has his hot water bottle and toys.

My other concern is that the neighbours' dogs do bark and howl a lot and they kind of set one another off. At present, our neighbours have fairly quiet dogs so there will be the occasional patch of barking and then they all fall silent again. How do I stop Elbie learning the bad habits of the new neighbours' dogs? I don't want him to be an annoying barking dog. Sometimes he barks at his own shadow because he's a dope

Clastic - Pepper is sooooooooooooooo cute. Sorry you were kept up with the crying - I hope she settles soon. Elbie screamed, howled, yowled and barked for three nights - it was awful. He was unrelenting. I always thought that having a second dog like Mars around would have meant that the new puppy doesn't cry! I hope she settles tonight

I mentioned above that Elbie loves his hot water bottle. The routine when we make it has become very settled but it's no less funny.

As soon as he hears the kettle he comes trotting out of his crate to supervise. We made some video clips last night.

Because of filming, it took longer to make than usual so he sounded and behaved even more impatient than usual. Usually he'll just sit there and make some plaintive honking sounds. I have no idea if anyone else's dog honks like Elbie.

What's even funnier is that the hot water bottle is a motivator - last night, I made him sit, drop and 'are you shy' in exchange for his hot water bottle.

My OH: For basic warmth you made our puppy do tricks???

I know these are videos not photos but I didn't want to annoy people by creating too many Elbie threads

Elbie (3/4 kelpie, 1/4 border collie) likes his kongs because they provide treats. There's also a kong ball which is cool because it has treats and he can chase it around the room. He also has a rope chew toy which he can't choke on and which he runs around with in the yard.

Unfortunately for us, his favourite toys are some little plushy squeak toys we bought when he was a very tiny puppy. They've lasted for weeks but he keeps tearing holes in them. See this very intact badger in this picture next to a deceptively angelic puppy?

It now looks like this:

It used to have ears and a tail. The tail was torn off so I stitched up the hole. We pre-emptively amputated the ears but Elbie keeps ripping at the poor badger's butt so the badger has had so many butt tucks in its short life that its rear end seems to be getting tighter and tighter We debated whether we would get him another badger but he loves it soooo much and it does last for weeks so we have it as his comfort toy.

He also ravaged his poor horse:

That being said, the toys are still being played with - but just have to supervise when he plays with it for those times he rips it and we have to do quick surgery.

Also, Elbie has indoor and outdoor toys so he knows that he's not supposed to bring his outdoor toys inside and vice versa.

Evolving: Those photos are hilarious! Perhaps Elbie will get like that in time. Right now he just gives us the most baleful, doleful looks from his big eyes when we want him to go outside in the rain.

Erik is still a wuss about toileting in the rain and he's 11 months old. Fine playing in the rain at the dog park, but he hates getting his tootsies wet just to pee. I started paying out big when he went on cue. Haven't had any problems since I started doing that, but poo is harder. We don't have a cue for that one.

Elbie has the same command for both and he's very good about obeying - except when it's raining. At 4am when we take him out for his toilet break, he relieves himself immediately and then scampers back to the door. When it's raining, like Erik he doesn't want to put his butt anywhere near the wet ground What we're doing is we're picking him up now and carrying him to the grass and hoping urgency will override his distaste for the wet

With the exception of the occasional mini "happy wee", Elbie hasn't had an accident in the house for a while. He lets us know when he wants to be let outside to relieve himself and when we take him out, he will toilet on command very promptly.

We have a small problem when it rains, though. He will usually still go and urinate as per usual but sometimes he's very fast so as soon as the door opens, he dashes out and urinates on the deck Either on the deck or on the deck beneath the deck table where he's sort of sheltered from rain. Presumably it's convenience but presumably he sees that the whole deck is wet and thinks it doesn't make a difference

Getting him to poop in the rain is really very tiresome. In dry weather, he'll be very prompt. When it's raining, he'll just hang around the back door and look very pitiful. We tried with an umbrella but that doesn't work either - he just refuses to go. Yesterday, when he realised that there was absolutely no way I was letting him inside until he pooped - he pooped on the stairs and then gave me a look as if to say: "Happy?" I picked him up when he started and moved him to the right spot but he's an extremely swift little puppy and darted to where it was relatively dryer.

This morning I waited outside for half an hour, waiting for him to poop even though he'd normally do it within the minute - I felt quite bad because he started giving me pitiful eyes and was shivering a little from the cold - Canberra gets pretty cold ...

When we bring him back inside after rain, we try to towel him down immediately but lately he thinks the towel is a toy and it makes him go absolutely bananas as he attacks it and tries to rip it to shreds Silly puppy.

If you said you were going to leave him crated inside all day you would have received the same number of stories about the terrible things which have happened to dogs left crated inside

That's true! If you look up dog, crate escape on youtube, under the comments that say 'oh so funny', you get just as many comments that condemn the owner for being cruel and putting their dog in a cage ...

Personally I wouldn't leave such a young puppy loose in the yard either and also wouldn't have him down to 2 meals at such a young age. If he was mine he would have a safe kennel and run and be only 3 meals for at least another 4-6weeks. You can still do 3 meals and work quite easily without coming home for lunch.

Mind you I also don't think crating dogs for such long periods of time is a good idea either

Well he's on three meals right now and he's not going to be left alone and on two meals for another couple of months or so - but the US forum seem to think that it's never ok to leave a dog alone in the yard regardless of age

And if I'm feeling annoyed and defensive right now it's because I can't help wondering why rabid dog owners attack people like us for the way we look after our puppy just because it's not the way they would do it - why not reserve their ire for people who mistreat their dogs or dump them? *shrug* In its own way, over-spoiling your dog is form of cruelty.

the thing I noticed with US dog communities is they seem to have the idea that everything needs to be babied and that an animal is incapable of taking care of itself. The comments I received about leaving a dobermann home alone in a dog run during work hours was that I shouldn't get a dog if I cant spend 24 hours with it, apparently to them a dobermann cannot live without a human. However after discussing with breeders and dol members in aus, the dobermann can live as happily as any other dog who is left alone when their owners go to work.

Many breeds, today and in the past were left outside and with proper preparation, training and care they can live a balanced life inside and outside. Most dogs left alone outside when their masters go to work opt to sleep most of the day and then are very energetic when they return home.

Thank you - the differences in viewpoints are s exactly what I've noticed as well. DOL members love their dogs just as much as the US forum posts and yet many are still able to take a pretty robust view of dog care. I know I have to develop a thicker skin but it's just that trying to raise a well-adjusted puppy is already hard work and sometimes it feels like EVERYONE is criticising your approach with the dog - too strict/too soft/too whatever ... While I understand that a very young puppy should always be supervised - I'm baffled at the thought that the dog is supposed to be supervised ALL the time even when it's not a puppy anymore.

Our view is that a kelpie/bc isn't supposed to be a pampered lap dog - we are giving him heaps of love and attention but we need him to learn how to spend hours away from us without imploding for his own benefit as well as ours. We're pretty happy with his progress because while he honks and whines a bit when we leave, he's always very settled when we return and not overly manic and hyper even though he's clearly happy to see us again. We've been trying to keep departures and arrivals pretty low key and make sure he gets lots of together time when we're home. Kelpies aren't normally supposed to be so affectionate, but Elbie's a bit of a sook