bilby

Taking the topic right back on track... Honestly, I can't believe that you owners are allowing this to happen ! Haven't you heard of RULES ?? As I fervently promised - crossmyfingershopetodie ..to my OH 1) all future dogs will be outside dogs 2) OK - maybe inside .. but NEVER allowed on furniture 3) OK - maybe on outside furniture .. but only allowed on inside sofas if not feeling very well Who am I kidding ?

As the owner of a large amiable not-the-sharpest mutt .. I have to say that all you SWF & SBF & STriF (that's you kymbo ) are quite right in the difference in attitude in obedience classes from SOME other dog owners & it seems from SOME so-called "trainers" sometimes as well. NOT my present trainer who is very experienced & has dealt with and owned multiple different breeds, and the group I'm in now who are all sizes & shapes .. & some dogs excel at one exercise & others at another. Bouf has been an very easy dog to train in basic obedience. "Stay" is not a hard exercise to perfect if your favourite position is lying down .. all day. Getting a good "Heel" when my hand (or tip of index finger) can rest on his head as we walk, & my bum-bag full of treats is almost under his nose really helps. I know we got a lot more "kudos" than I felt we deserved in the past from fellow class members on previous training courses.. just because I had this "BIG DOG" under control & the smaller dogs weren't so crash hot at prolonged stays.(Possibly because they were all so much smarter and got bored ?) And that is not what it's about at all, is it ? Last week I crossed the "divide" myself. Bouf is recovering from cruciate ligament surgery & my son has broken his collar bone. So I took Axle, son's 1 year old JRT, to training last week. It was so so much harder to be at lead's length. Half the lesson I didn't even know where he was, because I was turning in much wider circles than necessary etc & he was moving way way too fast following. Absolutely poodlefan ! Some obedience instructors with larger dogs have no comprehension of the difference in training a small dog. "Don't bend over to cue" you hear all the time. My response is usually along the lines of "well if your Golden Retriever gets his 'stand' cue in front of his muzzle, why shouldn't my toy poodle?" & yes .. the definitive words of wisdom there .. For any SWF (or non 'real dog') owner, the best revenge for such comments is success Axle & I are - we ARE - going to be the best ! Once I get my act into gear .. And Kymbo .. just go for it ! Hopefully you can find a training place like my present one where you have fun & feel comfortable & everyone cheers like crazy when Bouf manages to finally finally locate the tracking toy in full view at 5 whole paces away. It took me a little while to find the right group but have confidence in you & your dog .. & good luck.

Hi everyone .. good news we think. The vet was pleased with the bone re-growth etc & everything looks to be progressing well there But we need to continue the no exercise regime for another 2 weeks instead of starting the rehab as would have ben the case if he hadn't ben lame. Hopefully the lameness is just a soft tissue injury - if it's torn meniscus he will need more surgery, but that is thought to be unlikely. If he's still lame in 2 weeks I have to take him back .. so it's back to the watching & waiting for another 14 days. HUsband didn't come with me. It's a long drive & I was going to see my sister in the wait so it took me just about all day. Anne the surgery nurse who's looked after Bouf since the beginning was horrified when I told her about Bouf's hoon-around & was telling me off about how much damage he could have done ( this was on admitting him) .. when I just burst into tears. I don't know which of us was more shocked. Everyone in the waiting room looked aghast & I'm sure they must have thought I'd just been told he had to be PTS. I felt so bad for Anne because she was right & because I think it was just sleep deprivation & the stress of having had to drive there in my husband's courier van because my car has broken down and trying to juggle everything... not that she was being mean at all. I was explaining how hard it was to get my message across & she wanted to get on the phone to husband right there & then. If things don't improve I will get her to ring him .. but since he wasn't there to hear the facts for himself I've exagerated the downside a bit .. & I think the fact that Bouf MAY ( I left out the highly unlikely bit ) need further surgery at further expense might have sunk in. Poor Richard - I make him sound so unreasonable & he's not at all really - he's very supportive in other ways. Anyway I think I need to go to bed now ... I'm buggered ! Will write more later but that's the basic news.

Thanks guys .. came home last night to find him fully carrying back leg, hopping etc .. apparently went for a run whilst I was at work .. & the front door & his room door were left open ... I'm taking husband with me to the vet tomorrow ... perhaps Tom can communicate better. This morning he looks a bit better .. but now even more on edge Thanks for your wishes .. will be on here asap I get the news.

Kelly, Chloe sounds a bit like me .. & we are both middle-aged ! I was just wondering if the same sort of feeding regime advised for spreading menopausal women might help with dogs. This is TOTALLY my thought .. have never read anything about it for dogs. But I would think that the same principle applies ? ie boosting the Metabolic Rate that slows with age. Since you're already doing the exercise & diet part, I was thinking of this part .. How Often We Eat Our metabolic rate increases during digestion of food, a process known as the Thermal Effect of food. In simple terms, if we go too long without food (5 hours for men; 3 hours for women), our body thinks there is a food shortage and our metabolism tends to slow down. Eat Breakfast and Eat Regularly To benefit from the Thermal Effect of food and ensure that your body burns calories willingly, eat breakfast and then eat regularly throughout the day Maybe worth a try ?

Hullo Kelly, Just maintaining here, trying desperately to restict Bouf's movement. He is so bouncy & I just haven't found a way to stop him twizzling ( turning on the spot in a series of leg-thumping jumps). He always got lots of laughs & approval for it before .. he looks so silly. He still does it to try & please me .. but now I'm so down on him. Poor old boy .. I feel I'm always growling at him .. "Steady! " Slow!" "Wait" .. & he's doing NOTHING wrong except in these circumstances. I daren't even pat or praise him too much or he twizzles! It's horrible .. he just looks so puzzled and so sad sometimes ..but we do have lots of hugs. I took Nathan to the orthopaedic clinic yesterday & they only gave him 2 weeks off work. He can start moving his arm in 3 weeks & has another appointment in 4 weeks. I found that sequence a bit hard to follow. 2 weeks ? I don't think so .. Bouf has another 6 weeks convalescence to go. ;) Rang the clinic to clarify that Nat had understood the instructions .. & had a big fight with some nurse about the unreasonableness of expecting him to return to work with 1 arm. When I asked if they were clearing him to drive in 2 weeks, she said "Is the car an automatic? ". :p Well no .. but even if it was, he's OK to drive to work with 1 hand ? OK to drive the cars at work with 1 hand ? Spray paint customers' cars whilst holding the spray gun with 1 hand ? that could give some interesting wavy effects. It was just bizarre. Anyway .. will take him back to our GP who is a very sensible man .. & not as out of touch with the realities of working life for most people. Axle tore his toe yesterday so trotted off to the vet again in the afternoon .. seems OK today. The BIG day for us is next Wednesday when Bouf has mid-term X-rays. I just wish it could be today. Fido .. Duncan is beautiful .. great info on the treadmill as well. Thanks.

Thanks for that "24 hour" guideline from your surgeon, Kelly. Very useful to know. Bouf seems absolutely fine again now .. no toe-tipping even. Berly .. I have been so conned by Bouf too ... we gaze at the stars, we sniff the air, we sniff the icy grass that I'm usually standing bare-footed in, half lift a leg .. hope & memories of my warm bed .. no, let's move on to a better place .. & repeat the process as long as it can be stretched out. I thought my night-time nursing days were over once I'd weaned the boys. Thank goodness for Axle .. having another male marking territory under Bouf's nose eventually makes him let go. I used to only feed the dogs once a day. Changed to twice a day after Gem had a scary close bloat episode. I feed Eukunubra dry food, + fishoil + glucosamine chronditin supplements, shared can of sardine & raw egg once a week or so + polony, bacon, scraps etc treats if training. Gem (my 40 kg female GSD) was really overweight & I changed her diet to Eukubra senior & she lost weight fast whilst not seeming hungry & also seemed a lot more mobile. But I did also start adding the fishoil & gluc to her diet as well as Bouf's at the same time so it may have been 100% due to that. Eukunubra seemed so expensive but I do use so much less. I buy it in bulk through my trainer who gets it wholesale. I think it probably works out the same if not less than the supermarket dry foods ( Chum, Pal etc), but I have seem a much better result in the dogs. I sound like an advertisement, don't I ? Jacquie did a independant comparison of the different dry dogs foods as her thesis & based on that she reckons it's the best... I was very suss to start with but have to agree now. Bouf does 1 huge poo about 10 minutes after eating in the morning (I knew you'd want me to share that with you), Gem does 2 a day & Axle seems to do multiples. Bouf also has a puny little back leg. The schedule given to me is that once he's had his 6 week X-rays, assuming all is OK, we then start a progressive slow steady walking program to build up that hamstring muscle starting at 10 minutes 2 x day & reaching 30 minutes 2 per day over the following 6 weeks. Development of that muscle is all important in helping the mechanics of the leg so I guess it would be the same for Jordan. But maybe some of the more experienced bionic dog owners have other suggestions ?

How bad a mother am I ?? Hope the family never reads this board. Youngest son Nathan ( living at home) broke his collar-bone paintballing this morning. Middle son Sam rang from Casualty just to prepare me .. 1st thought: Is he OK ? 2nd thought: Yessssssssss Bouf will have 24/7 companion for the next 6 weeks I am so bad.

Brilliant news Kelly, and so so encouraging for us still in transit. I just want to see a pic of Chloe doing that frisbee catching like the cattle dog in my photo ... yeahhh right ! Oh Berly - can't believe it - same happened here 2 days ago! Not sure exactly what did happen ( though had some very very terse words with husband the night before when I came home to find Bouf loose with him & the other 2 dogs in the sitting room .. except since I'd come home they were all bouncing & shoving in the hall to get to me. "He's all right by now, surely ? " ... how many times do I have to explain? ) We're at week 5 today & Bouf had been weight bearing properly for 2 & half weeks. Get him up the next day & he's holding the leg off the ground, hopping & only toe-tipping when weeing. I did the same as you .. ie feel the leg & panic Anyway he did carry it gingerly the next day - I think .. wondering if I was imagining it as you said. Seemed back to normal yesterday but it's hard to tell in the dark. l've taken today off work as I was thinking I'd be racing him down to Murdoch, but maybe not. I'll watch him when he gets up ( hey it's only 8am .. he is not an early riser .. this is not an active dog) & decide. I just had a thought .. I wonder how many hours & minutes we've all spent collectively with our eyes glued obsessively on a dog's back leg ?

Fingers crossed for a great outcome today, Kel & Chloe Loads of good wishes from Bouf & his mates & me of course

Excellent day (apart from the rain .. ) Thanks a million to those who organised the workshop .. & of course, most of all, to Steve. It was good to match the people faces to all those gorgeous dogs .. I WISH so much I could come tomorrow .. alas not possible. Have fun you lucky guys .. & I hope the weather's better.

Hullo Everyone .. I seem to be hurtling from minor crisis to crisis here so please excuse the lack of response from time to time. It's not because of lack of interest I promise ! Since getting back from my 1st ever 4-week holiday 2 months ago: - I've hit a huge roo in my itsy-bitsy Daewoo Matiz. He just rolled off the (very concave) bonnet, gave me the evilest eye & bounded off .. but I missed 5 days at work because of no transport - Bouf's diagnosis a week after I got back .. have missed at least 9 days since then re procedures, recovery etc. - the filthy cold... missed 1 day + (the latest drama tooth abscess: 1 day for 1st visit to dentist for "treatment" ($106) : 2nd day for emergency extraction on same tooth 5 days later. What a rip-off ! I'm not whinging .. everythings turns out OK eventually but just explaining why I'm not on-line as much. My employer & colleagues (all non-pet owning city types) are wonderful .. very tolerant. ..specially as I now come in at least an hour later on the odd days that I do turn up.. & leave early if for some reason, my son Nathan won't be home by 4.30 as usual. There again, I have gone in on weekends & at 4am to try & catch up if Richard's here to take over the nursing. I think that when they heard the cost they just decided I'm obviously completely nuts and it's best to humour me. I'm taking tomorrow off as the much beloved dog-wash man comes & I think Bouf would go crazy if he heard Ian with the other dogs & couldn't get out to slurp on him. .. even that was acceptable ! So .. now to actually replying ... Kim So pleased to hear that Jordan's doing so well I fully understand the financial decision. Luckily I had refinanced the house for my trip, & borrowed some more to renovate the worst bathroom in Australia which I've put up with for the last 16 years when I got back. Bathroom ? Bouf ? Bathroom ? Bouf? Hey .. what's a hole in the roof & the grottiest concrete shower stall etc etc ? Not a hard decision but being a lot older than you & with some equity, I was able to borrow the money. Bouf weighs 51.5 kg now so similar to Jordan's weight. BUT Bouf is so so lean. He weighed 55 kg at 10 months old. His hamstring on the bad leg is non existent. He could never be any lighter and still be healthy & as we build up that muscle. he will add weight. Also Mastiffs don't stop growing till 4 (apparently!) & he turned 3 yesterday. I doubt he'll get any taller (surely !!) but he may bulk out a bit in the next year. ie long term he will be carrying more weight on those legs, not less. Also, it is assumed that Bouf's conformation was what caused the deterioration, so fixing the ligament without fixing the mechanics of the leg wouldn't work. Since Jordan is 5 years older, his is maybe a one-off injury ? Or a much lower rate of stress so the implant is probably quite appropriate for him. Hey listen to me !! Expert I didn't even know what a cruciate ligament really was 2 months ago JMHO It's storming outside .. so I mught just post in instalments before I lose this ...

;) .. So that's bikle's OH doing a group Kindy pick-up for Saturday. & pei's granny doing the Sunday ? Did I get that right Thanks Meri .. I'm convinced .. that coat was not cheap .. no point in just wearing it up here where no-one ses him ! I'm coming with a friend who has just bought a dog trailer. Does anyone know how far the training area is from the carpark ? ie would it be practicable to bring the dog trailer or would it be too far away to leave Axle in it safely ? Just having my usual country hick heebie-jeebies about the crime rate down there .. don't wanted him mugged for his coat. 6 days to go ....... Axle & my sister's Airedale Jack

Hullo, berly - good news about Jordan ! . ( I would have replied earlier but have had a filthy cold since last Friday .. hmmm .. could this be connected to multiple trips outside standing in the freezing cold waiting for the on-leash wee to happen ?) Don't want to put a downer on it, but Bouf was very docile for the first 10 days till the medication stopped... then started to step up the whining activity against being confined. Thereagain, he's in a small room inside (my "office") where the dogs always lie with me when I'm home, so for him, the frustration may have been hearing the other dogs outside rather than the confinement. For Jordan at least he's able to become used to his new quarters during this time. Great to hear he's already bearing weight on that leg. Bouf hopped for a week & our progress there was slower than expected when we went at 14 days. .. maybe again just cause of his size. Since then though, I've worked on the passive physio & he is weight bearing 99% of the time. Getting quite sparky too .. tried to do a twizzle ( spinning on the spot) today which just about gave me heart failure. Noele, I didn't pay that much attention to my surgeon when he was explaining the different results for the suture / prosthesis methods, because it wasn't appropriate for a dog of Bouf's size... he was explaining all the options. BUT I do remember him saying that 1 method did have a "cosmetic" drawback as the knee operated on would have be chunkier than the other .. but I'm sorry I don't remember the exact procedure. With regards to the weak muscle I have a pretty strict rehab prgram to follow for Bouf in order to build up the hamstring muscle for the 6-12 weeks post-ip period. His left hand muscle was wasted pre-op due to sustained lameness ( why did I listen to that 1st vet ) & the stronger his hamstring muscle is the less work for the plate/bone to do. Like Kelly I wish I'd known that that leg stuck out was a typical cruciate signal. Also like Cleo, Bouf isn't having Cartrophen any more .. I would be worried that its usage would disguise the symptoms. I love the stuff - it's brilliant when used appropriately .. my 9 year old GSD is like a puppy since getting it. But what it did for Bouf ( I now believe) was mask his pain & cause further damage. I wasted 2 years & 4 months with the wrong vets before getting poor old Bouf diagnosed & treated properly. I truly would be thinking of getting a 2nd opinion. Maybe your vet is right .. but it'd save you a heap of money long term if he's wrong. Do you have a University or teaching vet school anywhere near you ? Love to see the pictures of Jack & Katy. It took me ages to work out how to get mine in here! KL & Chloe ... 14TH AUGUST posted on my board for those extra special goodwishes to start flowing ( have to set off a bit early to get them across from WA in time for the 15th)

Oh, I am so tempted to bring Axle. bikle, wish we were close enough to take the OH pick-up. Great idea. I've solved the raining problem. It's been so cold up here in the Hills that I have now bought him a coat .. don't laugh ! He really does get so cold and I did try & get him as macho a coat as I could. I picked it up the other day & he came running up to get it put on. He thinks he looks like the Dog from Snowy River. Nice offer with the crates, mirawee. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Oops .. forgot to add. She does look thin to me, but I am NOT an expert so may be wrong. Bouf was really chunky at 8 weeks but his mother was a Bmastiff cross, not a boxer.

I just had to come in to see the photos after reading your other thread. She is GORGEOUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I found the "what to feed" issue very confusing when I got Bouf. So many different opinions - all no doubt very valid for other dog breeds. I was quite comfortable with knowing how to feed my retrievers, GSD's & collies, but did feel I needed "specialist" advice for Bouf as I'd never had a giant breed before. NOT that I thought he would be a giant breed. ( Yes yes I know ... my 1st non-pedigree buy .. broke all my own rules) His father was an English mastiff but his mother was smaller than a Lab .. I thought he'd take more after his mother .. or at least be somewhere between .. but he just kept growing taller & taller. This English Mastiff site is a US site but the people are so very friendly & helpful ( even to a mutt X owner) & it might be useful ? They are just the loveliest bunch. http://www.mastiffonline.com/

chiko, that's why I won't be taking a dog. From my understanding, the workshop is designed to train the owners to traiin the dogs, not train the dogs on site. ( I guess that's what all training classes are about !) If Bouf hadn't just had surgery, I might have brought him since he is the most inactive dog out & I'd have been to able to fully concentrate on the workshop whilst he held a sustained down snoozing on his side for hours. I thought of bringing Axle, son's JRT, but he is very active plus if it's really raining, I'd be fussing about making sure he wasn't too cold etc and after reading the way the workshop's structured decided against it. so it'll just be me .. that way I won't miss any of Steve's Pearls of Wisdom.

That is one slinky dame, Antoinette !! I think Bouf's fallen in love. Thanks again for all your help .. I'll be asking, be sure of that

Oh Antoinette .. a request for more pics ?? Do you realise what you've done ? :D

Kelly, I'm so enthusiastic about Bouf's surgery since I've read Chloe's outcome - completely committed to getting his 2nd leg done as well. He's been lame on & off since 8 months .. he'll never be Turbo-Dog but I really look forward to him happily slouching alongside without pain in the future. He is such a couch potato .. which is really useful right now. We went back for suture removal today. The surgeon wasn't happy with the lack of weight-bearing - he should be using the leg 100% after 14 days post-op - but everything else seemed fine. We have to drive an hour to the hospital & Bouf always hops for a little while when he first gets up, so I'm hoping that that was why he wasn't weight bearing. After the exam & consult etc the surgeon came back through the waiting room with us to help me lift Bouf back into the car (( LOL - couldn't believe he did that himself rather than send an underling .. love this man) .. & did say that Bouf seemed to suddenly have no problem with the leg when concentrating on the other dogs in the waiting room. Bouf's back on anti-inflammatories for the next 14 days though as we suspect he may still have some pain. berly ... I'm not exactly an expert .. only 10 days ahead of you in this process :D but the area I will be focusing on is the passive physio. Watching my surgeon do it today mdae me realise that my efforts the last few days have been totally pathetic & ineffectual .. I was so scared of breaking the bone or something ! Get someone to show you what to do when you pick Jordan up. No matter how much you read & how much advice over the phone you're given, you need to see it if not already familiar with the practise. 5 - 15 minutes 4 times a day if possible .. otherwise whatever you can do .. but Bouf had a different procedure ,, so maybe not the same for Jordan ? Good luck anyways

Here's a healing prayer that I love .. seems particularly appropriate for our mutts ... A Navajo Indian Prayer O you who dwell In the house made of the dawn, In the house made of the evening twilight . . . Where the dark mist curtains the doorway, The path to which is on the rainbow . . . I have made your sacrifice. I have prepared a smoke for you. My feet restore for me. My limbs restore for me. My body restore for me. My mind restore for me. My voice restore for me. Today, take away your spell from me. Away from me you have taken it. Far Off from me you have taken it. Happily I recover. Happily my interior becomes cool. Happily my eyes regain their power. Happily my head becomes cool. Happily my limbs regain their power. Happily I hear again. Happily for me the spell is taken Off. Happily I walk. Impervious to pain, I walk. Feeling light within, I walk . . . In beauty I walk. With beauty before me, I walk. With beauty behind me, I walk. With beauty below me, I walk. With beauty all around me, I walk. It is finished in beauty

I've finally read through the whole thread & so, so wish I'd found it earlier .. specially 2 Sundays ago when I freaked out & turned in a complete blubbering mess , deciding that I couldn't take away Bouf's possibly last few months of movement by surgery & confinement ( I KNOW , I know .. totally dumb but I was so so frightened for him). Bawled down the phone to my dog trainer, Jacquie, who kindly but firmly said that if that was my choice, .. Fine - then I should have him put down rather than condemn him to a life of constant pain. ( She told me later that she really wondered if that would be the end of our friendship .. but she was right & of course I'll be eternally grateful to her). I'm pretty close to tears right now just wondering where else anyone could find such caring & supportive people than on a Dog owner forum. The English Mastiff forum has also been wonderful with a couple of very very special people in the States emailing me, and loads of tips and help on my query. Bouf had a TPWO on the bad leg & I'm planning to have the 2nd leg done as soon as recommended. His meniscus on the bad leg is intact which was not expected at all , & I want to try & get the other leg done as soon as to minimuse any damage there. Also I would LOVE it to be in summer ... we've had temperatures of 1 & 2 degrees since Bouf's surgery .. when you haven't had a chance to grab your shoes before answering his urgent call to go out .. that grass is like standing in an ice-block Reading through, I can't believe how fortunate I am : - Bouf turns 3 next month , so not a puppy like Mallee, nor an older dog like Chloe - Completely placid clown dog with an overriding wish to please - "Inactivity-R-Us" was the joke name for us at training .. no-one was better than Bouf at the "Down" & "Stay" .. hey, that's always been his favourite position. ( Though rolling over on his side and stretching out for a really comfy snooze in the "Sustained Down" apparently isn't the done thing .. never mind .. we were never going competetition anyway) - Because of his size I've trained him every fortnight since a puppy - for socialising more than for anything else - and because he & I enjoyed it so much. Not the brightest-dog-in-the-kennel, & a bit of a shock to an owner who had had retrievers, Border Collies, & GSD's before ... but though it may take a while, once he's got it .. he never forgets it. The difficulty I have with him on the on-leash walks is to persuade him that he can move away from my side .. he doesn't move unless I "lead off" .. but does he want to go back in ? does he want a wee ? does he want to go to the "poo place" ? If I lead off to all 3 of the above options, & make a few false guesses, will I have walked him too far ? So much more to say .. but Guess What ? it's time for another outing.

BRILLIANT .. so glad to find this thread .. Bouf had cruciate surgery last Thursday so am just going off to read all the threads & links ... will be back soon if I can't find all the answers there

All these costs and prices are just so so ridiculously cheap & good value for spending time with your best friend .. How any dog-owner could complain at the price for what usually includes tuition/advice/facilities/ equipment/lighting/venue hire just completely BAFFLES me. Looking at the most "expensive" options, they seem to be around $200 per year assuming attendance every week, & assuming you get an hour's training ? ie cost per hour = $3.85 Of course, for that $200 for 52 hours you could buy yourself: 2 hours golf tuition at Broadwater 4 hours horse-riding ( no tuition) in Port Macquarie 3 hours sufing tuition I guess you get my drift ........