JoeK

Why on this adds here people ask about training and the most response is getting a trainer, and asking myself why is this?. Is very good to talk about training and much we learns from that. Yes, obviously should get a trainer, but is good to chat about the training too, just my opinion I am thinking for some knowledge widen for everyone. Joe

Yes, jump to low for her to be developing style I agree very much with others mentioning. Beautiful girl she looks, hoping she trial in the Schutzhund/IPO one day yes, leave the agility to the Border Collie and give her a real job that use her ability and drives 100%. Thank your for sharing video, watched them all, very nice working. Joe

Too much theories does the head in for my opinion because most things relates to the nerve the dog was born with, he has the nerve gene for the good, or he doesnt, simple as that. People too often hang the hat on something happening to the baby puppy good or bad that influence his working ability for a reason why he is good or bad at working. Most of this (my opinion) is bull if you looking for a good dog. You can alter this is true by the bio sensor for better or worse but what happens too much in the litter down the track when training, we find some things perhaps not so good in the trait. Someone says, yes, we can fix this trait in the next litter with a bio stim yes, I say no, we fix in the next litter choosing a better dam or sire who produce the right trait we needing. If you needing the bio sensor and then to worry if too much bio sensor washes the dog out, you are working with a litter too small in the window for error to produce a great dog. Better (my opinion) to look for better dogs in the breeding who have wide window of error and have the recovering trait of the misadventure to the stress. Too many (my opinion) looking for the tool to tweek a not so good breeding, better I am thinking to forget the tweak and put the power in the mind to looking for a the better dog that dont need artificial tweeking to make for the good of working. Joe

What is happening here basic is the dog is learning that life is good outside on the walk, interesting smells, other dogs, and he like to investigate is normal for the dog, like the child in a candy store, all is exciting yes?. Ok, you need for the dog to learn that you as his master is the most exciting, but he cant learn this properly if he get the pleasure from the smells and other dogs because he learns self pleasure. So, he says to himself, if I pull hard enough I get to sniff this exciting smell and visit this dog over here so that is what I going to do. The master he/she is good when nothing better is around, but he says, that smell and that dog is so lovely, much better than my master and a treat. So, the dog he can choose for himself which is most lovely, to pull hard on the leash and hope to reach the exciting smell or the other dog, or he stay at the masters side and be a good boy. Now, the dog needs to learn that pulling towards the dog or smell is not so lovely after all and to stay by the masters side and be a good boy is best choice, so introduction of something not so good for him when pulling to self pleasure. But, to teach the dog to be a good boy and walk with the loose leash, very much must be consistancy is the most important. You cant have the dog ok to pull for sniffing, then not for other dog, you have no pulling never so the dog learns that on the leash pulling is not allowed ever, very naughty to pull and the dog he will learn this and learn that is the lovely is to walk beside his master and behave. Joe

It's common enough in working lines too. Yes is true in the working lines, but sometimes this is done because the breeder thinks is good for working to have reactivity on the dog. Much difference in Europe with the Shepherd dog who get caught in the filter in the working test is very extensive and reactive dogs fail the test, so the dogs registration is cancelled for breeding and the dog removed from the gene pool, is very helpful to filter poor nerve. But, the breeder here many dont know the trait of the true working dog because they dont work the dogs to learn the trait and put the dog in the testing filter. But very much worst in the working line is to breed viscios dogs on false understanding that viscios is needed for the work is wrong. They see a trained dog work on the sleeve to fight the decoy and they think is good for my dog doing this exercise with no training, he works in automatic, we must breed this dog. This is false for thought, is bull, the trained dog they see, he is trained to fight, not automatic does he fight, hes beautiful dog could being childs pet dog in a different life for a family pet no worries. The dog who fights in automatic with no training too viscios for family pet is a very poor working dog, sad yes, but I put this dog to sleep, is no good very danger. Joe

Yes, to expand on my thoughts, the dog reactive to aggression does this becuase he feels stress and he wants to feel good again, no stress relaxed, so he does what it takes for him to feel good. He sees another dog and feels stress, I am feeling uneasy about that dog over there and I want him to go away so maybe I bark and act tough and he runs away, thats what the dog says to himself yes? So he bark, show his teeth and his hair stand up to make him look big and tough and the other dog runs away. Yes, he says to himself, thats how I get rid of the dog to feel good again, so next time he sees a dog, he does the same thing and YES, this works for him and he learn a behavior how to get rid of other dogs and he become dog aggressive. But he does this because he feels stressed, he feel scared of the other dog and worried because of lacking nerve causing his worried feelings. People say to me Joe, my dog is not scared and doesnt run away hes like a bull seeing the red rag and fights hard, but he does this from fear. A dog who fears doesnt mean the dog will tuck the tail down and look scared, some dogs in fear will stand tall, tail up ready to pounce like a lion and they say to me see Joe, look is not scared in a working dog hes got civil agrression which is another words for saying the dog instead of running away, he will fight first before what he is worrying about will get him, is still fear based defense. I said on the other add, the strong dog with hard nerve, he dont care about other dogs or the woman and child over there, he knows they dont beoing there to hurt him, his mind has clarity and he knose the difference of a threat and no threat. People like a nice layed back dog and those dogs who don't care are the dogs with nerve, the best dogs to work with for any purpose mainly a pet too, becuase those dogs don't snap, best dogs with the childs to play with and take much hard handling and play before ever a reaction or snappy. Joe

Yes, it was Dunbar, extrapolating from the literature (I think it was Fox who first documented the role of bite inhibition conditioning in very young pups). As far as I know there isn't any research in support of either theory (teaching prohibition or teaching inhibition of biting humans). I suspect that if it is a factor, it's probably not a big one. Of all the reasons for a serious bite, I really can't see much harm minimisation coming from teaching inhibition or prohibition. Good targeting for tug or bitework, as you have mentioned, is very useful though. I share my experience of the mouthing pup and not mouthing I have trained in both ways. I dont say that mouthing puppy turns to defense biting, but prey biting in fun goes to hard and he can bite you too hard in the fun. So, always I think not to have the pup mouth people never ever a good to practice this, because one day he will forget he has your arm and not the with the sleeve on and CRUNCH the bugger will draw blood yes, it will happen. You bite only the toy, tug, sleeve and teach the pup people are no place for teeth and when small and they bite everything, you stick a toy in there mouth to chew on they call redirect the drive onto appropriate article and thay learn what to bite, easily, no worries. But you let them mouth the people, one day CRUNCH not being nasty, but out of pure exciting for the dog he get carried away, but doesnt matter nasty or drive it hurts the same. Joe

Yes, thank you. I too dont say Mr Jeff is wrong, but yes, if the pups have the genes and of corse the drive, they will be working ok as grown up dogs, no worries. Good to say homes have been found for the little devils and my wishes for there future working and thanks for understanding Joe

Must imprinting be done on working litters? well that is up to the breeder. But if they want to increase there chances of breeding and raising suitable prospects for service work then they should be completing early imprinting and socialization. You can refer to it however you like, but you are up against the likes of Steven Lindsay and his bio sensor program. It has nothing to do with scraping genetically unsound dogs through the training and selection process for service work. Mr Jeff, excuse me please for lack of english, practice makes perfect like training yes?. I dont ignor benefits of early stimulation is not what I give my opinion. My opinion is the thinking because this pups maybe not have stimulation from born to 8 weeks, is something to worry about and thinking not to buy from this litter because of no stimulation making the the litter all duds. I am saying (my opinion) if the litter is good genes and sound that way stimulation or not, will make good working prospect doesn't matter. I would not say because no stimulation to avoid litter, my opinion is bull. One of my very best and beautiful working Shepherd had no training till 14 months, nothing but sit for a treat, no stimulation, but high trial 7 times in SchH3, was magnifisent animal when training done because of the good genes he has for working. Joe PS I say if good in the genes not to run away from the litter and panic because of maybe no stimulation, hope you understand my point please.

Thanks Joe, I know what you mean. A person should feel safe around someones elses well trained guard dog. They should feel "protected" too until such time that they are a genuine threat and the dog should respond in a controlled way, as per it's correct training. Yes, thank you. In the working breed is a big mistake to choose a reactive dog, but reactive dogs to violence makes for less training to guard so people get them bred. But, the dog has no control with the handler and makes an aminal of no prediction. You must begin with stable mind from the dog and train the dog to defend. The dog should work like a gun in normal time safe without no trigger cocking unless the handler commands to the dog to be suspicious and ready. The gun used for protection does not fire off on its own and the protection dog should be the same. On the youtube can find plenty of protection Malinios shepherd dogs trained by Ivan Balabanov, they sit in the coffee shop, the childs pet them, no worries, the dog is trained safe, not reactive to nobody very calm, until commanding to work. It makes me sad to see what happens when liking the reactive dog for working, no prediction in these dogs and dangersous for accidents to happen, but more sad to me is saying because the dogs is garding breed this reactive trait is good and make excuses for bad traits is bull. Joe

That's an incredibly sweeping statement, and not in accord with published research. Dogs that live as above account for SOME attacks, but only a percentage. there are other causes too. My thinking too many people reading old stories how fighting dogs were raised many year ago, isolate the dog on a chain and beat him with a stick to work in violence, but we need to think in real life, not much would this happen today in a pet back yard. This type of dog and training I am thinking would not account for biting people in a statistic records. The sweeping of the statement I agree would not be founded. Joe

Mr Jeff sorry, you state a questioning of suitability without the imprint and somebody elses say too perhaps the chance of a good working material without the imprint is maybe blown which this gives the readers here impression of the imprint must be done. To confirm study is difficult, because each pup and each litter is not a clone not identical in trait. So, you do the imprint on some litter or some pups and thinking wonderfil, but you cant undo the imprint and try the same pups without one for seeing difference. Maybe the imprint pups have a nice gene you know, maybe no imprint is blaming for the outcome pups with a poor gene, dog is no good a worker because it had no imprint before 8 weeks, pffff I say this is bull yes?. A pup with the genes makes no difference, but you can find all this imprint is done to get dogs of borderline genes to scrape into working maybe? Edit for better english, thanks Joe

What I see in Australia is often very poor working dogs with bad nerves that are sometimes accidents to happening. Some people tell me Joe, this is a good dog, but my thinking is what you breed is a fear biter, the dog has no nerve is scared and defensive animal, should be better to put him to sleep before he hurts someone child or something. A good Shepherd dog is not scared, hes tough and doesnot give a toss about childs they dont scare him. Hes confident dog and only when pressure against his life is put to him should he react and bite. They say Joe, I breed protection dogs, look at him he sees a man walk past and goes off, teeth and all wanting to kill him. protection dog pffff, fear biter, the man nothing he has done to the dog and the dog wants to kill him, this dog isnt not a good dog with shot nerves and no use to anybody. The crossbeed dog, well you can all have a guess how well he is turning out like rolling the dice if he shall bite people, who nose? Yes you can take the puppy dog to the socialise is good, but a dog has nerve or it has not, does not matter, most is in the genes of the dog, is rection to bite people from fear or is not. In much of the working dogs is see bred, that are snappy because the working dog is a protection breed and herding dog, they think that snappy is good and means you can make a good police dog, pffff, they dreaming, the dog is a coward, put on the muzzel and take the teeth away, and pressure the dog he will run off the field with no teeth working. A good working dog dont bite for no reason, they are calm and don't care and give warning if thay dont like what you do groel with tail up, plenty of time. People who breeding dogs must look at the nerve, some have no idea, the hard nerve produces the good pet dogs, never mind the pretty as a picture to win a show, without the nerve in all dogs is where biting people comes from, just my opinion and thanks for listning Joe

There is no magic potion to stop the dog from barking at drunks at 3am, is normal for the dog to do this because drunk people a suspicios for the dog when they act stupid and the dog senses it so he barks, not even Cesar can fix this barking on drunks. You need firstly teach the dog shutup or shoosh, but you must be with the dog to catch him and then teach the shoosh and then we do a different behavior from the bark and reward the shoosh. If the dog barks and makes a pest at night, he needs to taken off the fence or taken inside to train him what behavior you want when he does bark. Joe

I was just thinking that ... they're a lot of work even before the 8 week stage. Could blow their chances of a decent working home if they've done nothing with them Greetings to all, I work in Europe many years with the German Shepherd, Dutch Shepherd and Malinios, interested from this add, I have an understanding lack of this imprinting before 8 weeks for the working dog. I think to me this is rediculos as most of the beautiful working dog had nothing to do till 12 months, please I am intetrested in this because if the pup cant do work without an imprint is not a good pup. Many a green dog I take have nothing sometimes 2 years, if is good dog it can do the work you train to him, if not the dog is no good, nothing to do with imprints of a baby. Joe