JoeK

The dog inteligence listing is based on easy training and is reasonable right in my thinking. My opinion is the Labrador is better than the Golden Retriever in training but maybe I dont see a good Golden Retriever yet and probably see pet Golden against field bred Labrador which is different. Malinios takes in my opinion more experienced trainer to extracting results than the German Shepherd Dog where dopy trainer can do ok with German Shepherd Dog but making mess of Malinios. Dopy trainer also do ok with the Rottweiller and Dobermann so probably Belgian Shepherd bit harder to train is right. Joe

Looks like calm low drive dog. This young German Shepherd Dog has very nice trait for working in the personal protection or police dog, very stable, beuatiful grip and dominance, much could be made from this dog in the training from what I can see in active aggression when he win the pillow easily trained into fighting drive, but then switch into family pet nice and relaxed. Reminds me of good young Czech line Shepherd I train many years ago, I am sucker for black shiny coat admitting my weakness for the black Shepherd too. Joe

I haven't watched the video footage (yet) but you should give the dog plenty of 'wins'. If the dog never has wins, or even many of them, why would he bother or be enthused about playing the game. The key is that the 'game' is played by your rules. You start the game; you end the game. And the dog relinquishes the tug on command. The tug IS yours ..... your dog learns to work for it and understands YOU are what makes the tug 'alive'. And so the tug is not the dog's toy to have when you are not around. It only comes out when you are there. Yes, very good writing Erny for the folks understanding, I am liking your training thoughts is good Joe

We use this theory in the desexing of the German Shepherd Dog like this: If you can't handle entire male, you shouldnt own the German Shepherd Dog is wrong breed for experience. Many people in the years say to me Joe, I cant handling my dog well should I take off is tentical is common?. I show them the world Schutzhund champion dog has is tentical, and his behavior and obedience and controlingabilty is beautiful yes, and then I am resting on my case pfffff! Joe

Most of the dogs Cesar working on the aggression are fear biters with the weak nerve and with the fear biter is a point where he submit to the handler and Cesar he know that. If Cesar he do some of the methods with a dog high in social aggression, the dog he hurt Cesar bad, but the difference is hard nerved dog of the social aggression are clear in the head and trainable and dont need Cesar calling in to fix them. Cesar when doing his methods always have a slip collar on the dog you see this because if he redirecting to the handler and want to bite him, the only way you can stop the bite is hang him up on the choke out, there is no other way to stop a dog from attacking the handler and not getting bited on. So Cesar he always has the choker on in case the dog want to kill him if going wrong in the method, yes? If you game enough with the fear biting dog, you can fix this dogs to fear the handler is what Cesar is doing and the dog think he cant win with the Cesar and submits is wahts happening really. Is good or bad method?, well if it saves the dog from the euthanize is ok but if saying is there better way to train the dog, my opinion is yes, there is better way yes. Joe

Here I find nice video on the youtube of the working German Shepherd Dog is good example of the calm for young dog. This dog he display in the trait of prey drive, dominance and the active aggression for the bite pillow, but at the beginning he waiting for release beautiful calm in the dog then on release he drive in hard. When he win is rewards, you see dominance and active aggression on the prey hes tail up and growl on the pillow then out on command is beuatiful young Shepherd Dog, and is very intense for the pillow in his head you can see in the drive, but is very good example of the calm in the sit, but on the good Shepherd Dog is calm become part of the game for release, you dont teach him the calm, he's doing automatic and he learn that no calm is no release. Joe

I am not thinking to desexing all the pets is thought from the brightest shining star because is same as closing of the gate when the horse he done a runner, yes? What need is happening on my opinion to lowering the amount of unwanted pets is for law to stop Tom and Dick for breeding anything and everything on there pleasure. To breed a dog, you need to have a licence and to get a licence you need a registered pedigree bitch you own otherwise you don't get a licence. If you breed with no licence and get caught, you getting say $1000 fine? This to me making people think too, ahhh $1000 fine is no good, maybe I keeping my dog in better responsibility and I desex him or her myself. Its stopping the puppy farming because there is control, where no control is obvious the unwanted dogs and cats will be happening becuase is too easy to doing as you please and no one cares whats happening. I am only specialist welder, not the rocket scienceing and I can see this problem easy and saying in my opinion is that too many dogs needs to be stopping at the beginning and unlicnened breeding of the dogs needs to be crime and my opinion is half of theis problems will go away. Joe

I wish I had some video of my GSD when she was younger doing a several minute stay while she knew I had a ball or bite sleeve No breaking, but definitely not calm! Barely touching the ground Yes, I have disqualified few times and had bad score in obedience for this and I got caught once giving hand signal and sent from the field. How I stop this happening is walking back to the dog to give reward in the sitting position so he knoes that I come back to him and hes calm. If you release the dog in drive to come to you for reward, he sit coiled up with no relax as hes waiting for release to run to you. I train this with food is better than the toy on a high drive dog I am finding and if you pre training dog to take food gently and not snap off your hand, is system working beautiful. Joe

I'm interested that you ask for a down for this Aidan2. When I teach tethering work I am careful to make sure that no sit/down/stay commands are given as once away from the dog it is too hard to control the dog breaking position. I just require that the dogs aren't pulling on the tether and barking. That's probably qualitatively very similar, but I really do like them to be able to go to sleep and having a specific position is a bit more black and white for people. If they learn that you won't come back unless they are down, it's not so hard to get them to stay there. They usually break a few times early on, so you get the opportunity to show them this by having them down from a few steps away, and then you come back. If they are breaking when you go out of sight, you go right back to taking a single step, which is not stressful for them, they can relax. I agree with Aidan2 on this point, the dog he needs command for walking away to do something, sit or drop is good. If you let him just stand there, is more chance he pull on the tether and bark in distraction and without commanding a job for him to do, is my opinion reliability is suffering long term. We have very strict club years ago where no barking allowed in the truck and if the dog barking in the truck they say is no control on the dog to be on the field, so we have to shut him up and is best when we commanding drop in the truck reliable and we block off if the truck has windows and he shut up and not bark and we get our go on the field for the judge. Joe

Hi Joe, I think so. I think most behaviour specialists have an understanding of the working dog and we've all seen the more extreme examples of dogs from a variety of breeds. I, myself, own a working line GSD from the old East German lines so I feel that I have a good personal understanding of their special needs (but I know very little about sports!) At the end of the day behaviour operates under principles that both the sporting expert and the behaviour specialist understand at some level. Some specialists, such as Dr Overall, also have a thorough knowledge of the medical side of behaviour (if they are veterinary behaviourists). I'm far better with reactive and aggressive dogs than I am at teaching pet manners or puppies, so we all have our special areas of expertise and areas where our learning has become "second nature" to us. In the case of a good sporting dog who is afraid of a crisp packet blowing onto the field (and I've worked with a couple of these) a good understanding of counter-conditioning is essential. That is something that a sporting expert would have some understanding of, but a behaviour specialist would usually be more competent with. I think we should always rule out medical problems, and sometimes drugs are the most effective solution, and a veterinary behaviourist is best in these cases. Sudden, unexplained aggression, and separation anxiety are two things I will refer straight away. A good many dogs really wouldn't have a behaviour problem if they were having all their needs met, so I think the role of the sporting club is highly under-rated, particularly in Victoria where Schutzhund has been outlawed. There are always alternatives, but some dogs (and owners) thrive under those specific conditions. Yes, I do understand your thoughts Aidan2 thanking you for your time. Beautiful East German Shepherd dog is fortunate to have hoping you enjoy what he offers?. With understanding on the Shepherd dog trait, sport is only set of rules after that for what the dog he need to do and the routine is the same so is not that hard to adapting when have the feeling on the dog and his limitations. Very much work in behavior is done for the sport like in Schutzhund because of different rountines, not all dogs can do all of them easily, maybe excellent in the biteworking, no good on the A board, he jumps off the side always, so hes little bit scared on the top, so we have to train him for how hes thinking in his head to get him past his fear. So yes, in the sporting dog you have to be head doctor for him too sometimes like the dog shrink to work out hes thinking and manipulate in the training around the problem to fix him. Joe

If we talk about the stay from a calm dog, is my opinion that a dog if not calm will break stay. Hes must be calm to hold the stay, so if you training a solid stay, you train in automatic the calm too, is easy to do this. If the dog he coiled up like a spring ready to pounce like a tiger, hes bum lift off the ground first and you say NO SIT and we go again from beginning is how you stop the coild spring no worries and calm happens with the exercise other wise he not get his reward you see?. So, you dont needing to teach a calm and a stay, you teaching just the stay and the calm come too, yes? Joe

Hi Joe, I would think that if you were training for Schutzhund you would listen to Balabanov, and if you had a behaviour problem you would listen to Overall. I'm not sure that Balabanov really addresses behavioural problems as such, nor that Overall would even attempt to offer ideas for Schutzhund training. Dr Overall is a highly successful veterinary behaviourist with years of experience under her belt, so I don't discount anything she says unless it comes to aversion, for which her bias is evident. I think we can learn things from people with all sorts of backgrounds. Anyone who has won multiple titles at high levels of Schutzhund or the ring sports does know what they are talking about, but you have to keep in mind that they are not working with pet dogs, dogs with low drive, or dogs with less than ideal temperaments for those sports. Nor are they trying to solve problems every day such as what to do when two dogs don't get along very well, or what to do if a dog suffers from severe separation anxiety. On the flip-side, I doubt Dr Overall could tell you anything much about footstep-to-footstep tracking with a high-drive Malinois. So horses for courses. Greetings to you Aidan2 thanking you for reposnse. Yes, we do get behaviour problems in the sporting dog much is similar with the dog aggression, separation anxiety from the handler as happens for the family pet. The sporting dog he may have the high level of the prey drive, but he can also be a bit hyper activating for the drive to be satisfying, like he may chase is tail for the drive satisfaction, many silly things the high energy dog can do like the family pet too, so, many times the behavior specialising I am thinking maybe helpful for the sporting dog to overcome some problems. Some beuatiful sporting dog hes perfect but he scared of crisp packet that blow into the field is happens this things which is needing to work out how to fix him. But, is not normally getting a behavior consultant to fix this things, but I am thinking maybe it could be an asset to when this type of things happen? Joe

Is different having dog from a puppy if he become aggressive on other dogs where emotional bonding is deeper on the pup and is good to try and fix his problem, but the rescue dog my opinion is life too short for the coping of aggressive dogs in the family pet and is best to get another one who is nice friendly dog with the stable nerve. There is plenty of the nice rescue dog and is shame that some a have the problems, but we can't always use the heart for thinking sometimes thinking with the head is best, yes? I don't think the rescue company should be putting out aggressive dogs to the family home, is too hard and not fair on the people if consideration is the need perhaps to get rid of the dog for the aggression after loving the dog for other reasons. Is best to take a nice rescue dog with the future for the family, not the problem dog for the rescue is no good, is sad, but sometimes he better off putting to sleep. Joe

I am thinking sometimes with the many people having the theory on the dog?. Ok, we have a Karen Overalls in this discussion who join many others with the theory, but I thinking sometimes and question myself what this theory people have achieved with the dog for real for us to believe the theory is good? My background in the working dog for the sport of Schutzhund and a little bit of the KNPV and protection training, so I look onto the training theory of the people who do this working with success, yes?. Beautiuful dog training from the Ivan Balabanov multi world champion trainer with notching on his belt, so if Ivan he have a theory, for me is good to know his theory because he better trainer than me is proven and I know he can do the good jobs with the dog. But some of this others with the theory I ask myself what have they done in the real life with the dog for me to listen for adopting the theory as good? Maybe I haveing problem on the relax with my dog I train him for Schutzhund and the theory on Ivan is different to the theory on Karens Overall, which one I take is best I am thinking becaise Ivan has multi world title hes best, or maybe Karen is best for my problem is very confusing with so many of the theory around today? Joe

Unless she meaning the motivation or drive to do the writing. Perhaps if the pen dont work you dont do the writing with something else because you rather use the pen, you give up and say bugger the pen, I dont do writing now because the pen dont working? To understand her logic about the pen, really need to know in the dog training what she was doing for the relationship of pen and dog for what she talking about? Joe

Joe, If you know anything about breeds that have been used for fighting you will know that they're aggression is with other animals not people! Therefore it is not understandable if a "bull breed" runs across the road and bites someone!! Just because you think they have some genetic disposition to be aggressive does not mean this makes them Human Aggressive. This incident has nothing to do with breed whatsoever. However the outcomes may have, and fortunately being a GR he may be a luck boy. I think you misunderstood Joe. If I am right, Joe was trying to say that the circumstances are also different here in that Buster was in a situation where there was provocation.Fighting family members near a dog who has recently been in a traumatising situation and owners had little idea how to deal with his aggression,likely aggravating the situation. He is a breed not known for its fight drives.He is an older dog with no history of aggression but very much loved by friends and neighbours alike who have never had cause to fear him . He did not run out of his yard to attack strangers on what should be neutral territory and this does make a difference to peoples perceptions. Joe was speaking more of fight drive rather than dog fighting breeds. Still making the connection of breed to likelyhood of an attack happening isn't helping anyone. He's saying that it's more likley for a "fighting" dog to have been involved in the attack. Stressful triggers are different for every dog and their environment, some dogs are rock solid and will not waiver under stress, some run, some bite from fear etc.. (Fight drive is usually linked to dog fighting breeds) Edit, maybe somethings are getting lost in translation!! mayeb he's talking about other people perceptions? in which case he may be right. No, I am not talking of the dog fighting breeds, I am talking of breeds that have a fighting trait and the Golden Retriever Dog doesnt have the fighting trait to switch into active aggression. The Buster switch into defense drive it looks from the story, not active aggression which is a difference. Defense drive is worse in the trait than active aggression where in active aggression the dog is not reactive on fear response, hes reacting on dominance and confidence. Active aggression is trainable much easy to rehabilitation for being good dog than dog acting in fear, very much difficulty to train and control the fear aggression dog. What I say is that is more likely for breeds with fighting trait to act in active aggression than breeds that don't have fighting trait and the breeds without fighting trait when attacking is usually from defense drive from fear. Buster biting the next door neighbor I would say is fear response because he grab Buster around the throat so he think the neighbour try to kill him and the Buster defend himself is natural reaction for the dog. Joe

Joe, If you know anything about breeds that have been used for fighting you will know that they're aggression is with other animals not people! Therefore it is not understandable if a "bull breed" runs across the road and bites someone!! Just because you think they have some genetic disposition to be aggressive does not mean this makes them Human Aggressive. This incident has nothing to do with breed whatsoever. However the outcomes may have, and fortunately being a GR he may be a luck boy. I think you misunderstood Joe. If I am right, Joe was trying to say that the circumstances are also different here in that Buster was in a situation where there was provocation.Fighting family members near a dog who has recently been in a traumatising situation and owners had little idea how to deal with his aggression,likely aggravating the situation. He is a breed not known for its fight drives.He is an older dog with no history of aggression but very much loved by friends and neighbours alike who have never had cause to fear him . He did not run out of his yard to attack strangers on what should be neutral territory and this does make a difference to peoples perceptions. Joe was speaking more of fight drive rather than dog fighting breeds. Yes, I am sorry on the English I am working for improving on my English please. Yes, the Buster situation I see very much on the provocation here and any breed on the provication deserve a chance much more than the dog acting in active aggression, like running across the road for purposefull attack in the public street on the stranger. Buster he did not do this which people (in my opininion) should be understanding of the facts here, not just saying is because Buster is Golden Retriever Dog is the reason for the chance and if he Bull Terrier or something would be euthanized with no chance in this circumstance I dont think is true. If the Buster run out and bite 4 people on the public street, he get euthanized just like the Bull dog or the German Shepherd Dog, no problems, but what I saying is some of the breeds with fighting trait can run out the yard and bite people if they done this the chance of living is less of course than the situation in the Buster case. Joe

Joe, If you know anything about breeds that have been used for fighting you will know that they're aggression is with other animals not people! Therefore it is not understandable if a "bull breed" runs across the road and bites someone!! Just because you think they have some genetic disposition to be aggressive does not mean this makes them Human Aggressive. This incident has nothing to do with breed whatsoever. However the outcomes may have, and fortunately being a GR he may be a luck boy. For many years I train the dog to fight people in the services and personal protection, so knowing little bit of the trait in aggression, yes? It takes particular trait for dogs to engage and bite if not driven by the fear response in provocation and the dog hes active in aggression it happens more likely in the breeds with the fighting trait than breeds without this trait. A dog with drive in sharpness, civil, social and defense aggression will run across the road and bite people and animals from this traits, no problems and people say no this is bull to defend the breed they liking, ok, I accept people liking particular breed say the breed has nothing to do with the aggression is natural response from them fair enough? Not all dogs of these breeds having the fighting traits are reactive is true, but some are because of many variables in the dog or his upbringing, but what I say is this. Very easy to trian the dog with fighting trait to run across the road and bite people, very difficult to train the dog with no fighting trait to do it, even training from prey drive, they will chase the people and bark, but takes a fighting trait to engage and bite. Joe

I am not thinking anyone here would have a disagreement the Golden Retriever Breed is dosile usually and isnt a breeding with fighting trait, so for him attacking 4 people is strange in the breed. Many the German Shepherd Dog is some countries used for guiding the blind, but some in the guiding have too much protection on the owner and Labrador has much less of this chance to happen for protective trait. So is not alarming for the people to wonder why a breed that doesnt have the fighting trait why he biting 4 people. I think myself is unusal, if another breed that has the fighting trait biting 4 people, I think different on the situation because more is likley for dog of fighting trait to fight of course than the dog of no fighting in the trait. People saying breeds of the fighting trait don't get a chance when they biting someone, is not true on breed, is true for other reasons also. If the dog of the fighting breed run out his yard across the roadway to bite a person on the other side, ok, this dog has intention to bite and is understandable he not get a big chance from the eithanaze, completely unprovoking attack. But the Golden Retriever Dog is very much in a provokation here and deserves the chance more than the dog who run out and bite in viscious intent for no reason. Joe

Is just come to the news that the next door neighbour grab the dog by the throat as he biting the owner and the dog then attack him. Idiots as I suspected, should have grab the dog by the back legs, is no wonder the dog switch into the defense, I am very sad for the dog he pushed into that positon to defend and then put to sleep. Joe

Let me explain please talking of the breed. Particular traits is necessary for the successful guarding and protection dog training for the fighting drive and courage and confidence in the dog to have a fight. The Golden Retriever Dog has none of this traits in making his genes, so yes, is unusual for this breed to attack the 4 people in pure aggression I agree on this point. If the dog in this story be a breed having this trait for adapting to protection dog like the German Shepherd Dog, the Belgian Malinios, the Rottweiler, and some of the Mastiff Bull types of breed to name a few possibles, sometimes these breeds are not of a breeding with balance in the gene and can have the over sharpness, social aggression, and the willingness to fight when he provoking and he need experienced handler and the training for him to be safe dog. When attacking 4 people if he the breed who can having this trait, he need assessment to determine his chararcter if he suitable dog to be safe in the home of course. So, the only thing the same that all breed of dog share is 4 legs, the temperament is different and because some breed has the trait in the genes for aggression is why when these breeds attack they come in the spot light to assessing if the animal a danger in society, because is a dog, doesnt mean they all the same, some breeds do have more likely to being aggressive than others is fact. All dogs have the teeth, yes, and all dogs can bite in partcular circumstance is true, but not all dogs and breeds have the trait for pure aggression if it be trained in the dog or it come out from genetic unbalance. Is like you cant training the Labrador for protection, because hes pussy under pressure and he run away, no good, so in the working dog they have him sniffing the drugs is good. The good German Shepherd Dog we train him for protection because he has the trait in the gene to give his life under pressure and die for his handler in the fight, he not run away, he go harder till he win or die is the difference. This hardness in the dog cannot be something to train, hes either got the trait or he hasnt and some breeds have more likelyness for this trait than others is fact. In a perfect world of perfect breedings, none of this protection breeds should attack the people for no reason is true, but not all the breeding of this dogs and the cross breeding is perfect and sometime in the breeds with the traits in the genes to train in protection have too much of some traits to cause aggression when it shouldnt be happening is why the authorites look more at the breeds having the trait when attacking happens different to when attacking happens with breeds like the Golden Retriever Dog that doen't have the traits for fighting, yes?. Is very understandable we like to say that all breeds are beautiful, they all the same and a dog is aggressive because he tied up in a chain and hit with the sticks, but we needing understand that in some breeds aggression is more likely than others, and we also needing to understand if we own the dogs that have the working trait, you train him properly and make him your goal to be a good dog and learn the social ability and making sure he never bite anyone is the owners reponsible to manage to the dog properly. Joe

He attack 4 people, but what did the people do on the first bite to the dog?. Did they say good boy give him a pat, or did one of the peoples give him a belting because he bite, or maybe 4 people try and fight the dog and he switch into defense drive in the fear response thinking the people going to kill him. It's fair for the dog to defend himself, maybe the people not handle the situation best and making the dog attack we dont know this? He may have just growl first then one people smack him and start from there, maybe nothing wrong with the dog other than he live with a house of dickheads perhaps? A dog he must not bite the human is a law the dog he dont read the law and know that, hes a dog and he bite under the stress can happen, no dog has exempting to this when the buttons is pressed to cause him to a reaction, yes. Joe

I am thinking the Pitbulls should be locked in a cage from the legislation, shouldnt be run around in the yard so couple more laws come to the place with the Pitbull attack. Other thing when a dog attcking the owner of the owner property, different story than he running on the street and attack somebody because nobody making complaint against the dog makes a difference how the situation is taking into account too. If no ambulances involved, probably nobody know of the attack and nothing happens. Joe

Very nasty this incident, but to me doesnt look like pure breeding in the Labrador is look not quite right. The frenzy attack to bite 4 people dog is very much stressed into defense drive fearing his life to do this if not from a medical complaint is possible too, but would be intersting to learn of the trigger bringing this to unfold I am thinking, yes?. Someone mentioned in this before about the resourse guarding, perhaps is possible the dog he get a bit nasty and someone all it takes is maybe boot the dog agggghhh naught boy you dont do this resourse guarding is bad dog for the dog to switch into defense drive and attack under the fear. Its not taking much to spook the dog into viscious reaction, sounds very much like this is more possibility than the dog for no reason he just go troppo. Very possible he does a snap on someone so other person try and give him a belting for the bad behavior and worsen the situiation into viscious attack maybe possibility. Joe

Yes, the female dog is more accepting of another dog intruding in the house intitially, I think this is true where the male dog by nature has more territorial instinct and can take more work for accepting. The female dog I find is more unpredictable thinking no worries this two female get along very nice always then suddenly massive fight happening? The male dog is easier to read and thinking no worries getting along more often stay that way and the males that don't get along good, you see that easily and keep an eye on them for the posture. We dont desex the working dog, so is different people saying with the desexed dogs for the better, but most I talking with the complete dogs from my experience. Joe