JoeK

May I asking please, what happens if you tying your Zoey girl on the fence and walk away when the dogs passing? She stay calm or she reactive again, this is test for telling what is working and what is not in the dogs head if she get over the demon or she managing from the handler inputting? Joe

They were before and after videos. That was the "before", the "after" looked pretty good so they figured something out. Still much distance on the after with constant feeding from the handler? The dog is learned to focus on the handler and eat, but has the dog learned to calm on his own, maybe, mabe not? In the Schutzhund training we having the traffic test where the dog is tied to a fence and the handler he walks away from the dog out of sight. The dog has to sit or stand and jogger go past, the dog walker and the bicycle and the dog is not allowing to reactivity. If he bark or jump around he fail, so we teach him calm without handler inputting to passing the test but the feeding and handler focus training for this doesn't work good for the dog to calm himself because in the test, is no handler there to feed him and focus. Joe

The laws only catching the better people. In the dog park if a dog attack is easy for the bad people to get away with it saying they pay the vet bill and give false name and address to the other person and they go away and no one knows who they are?. I know of seeming very nice woman she do this and the people of injured dog never found her? Joe

The aim is to reinforce being able to engage with the scary (or exciting) stuff without over-reacting. So what you do is reinforce calm behavior when looking at the scary or exciting thing. Using a clicker, you can mark the precise moment the dog looks at the scary thing, before they have a chance to get carried away. You need to begin at an appropriate distance. An appropriate distance could be 2m or 200m, you want to set the dog up for success so pick a distance that works. I had a quick look on YouTube and couldn't find a great video (probably didn't look hard enough), but here is one that has a before and after: Before: After: I thinking yes and no on the first video?. A dog behind a fence is not a real threat becuase he cant getting out and walking away for the distance can sometimes reiforcing in the dog that is a threat and we needing to run away is no good. If you just walking briskly past the fence a few times, little correction and no commanding if the dog reacts, he thinking ahhhh, this dog behind the fence is no problem is not scary afterall, so distance is not always best on the dogs learning, its best for the handler control but not always best for the dog. Joe

Why is this so difficult? The handler is in control - exactly! :D If your dog can't greet someone without jumping all over them, don't let them greet anyone unless they are sitting. No special tools required. Sit = attention, jump = taken away, flat collar, martingale, check - whatever. I know it's not always that simple, but this is a 6 month old pup. He hasn't had years to learn this and chances are his owner will figure it out pretty quick once she starts setting this up and using a leash. Yes, this basics I agree, but when taking the dog away when he break the sit and jumping, he doesnt come away nicely, he still jumping and handler drag him away and the dog he out of control and taking a while to settle. Is the tool then using to take the drive of jumping and running for the greeting out of the dog for faster settle down is what the difference in the tooling makes. If the dog bouncing like the pork chop on a flat collar and try the pork chop on a prong is not pleasant and he thinking this not feeling so nice on my neck is much better when I settling so he settle faster and learning. If he playing I am stronger than the handler on the leash tug of war and thinking he pull the handler where he want to go because the flat collar he can handle the pressure, he need a collar he cant handle the pressure and back out of the pulling is how is working on the prong. Many people have saying to me often, Joe, my dog is beautiful but only play up in the greeting say. But what I finding is the dog hes not beautiful at other times in the real, hes average so the leash control is not that good anyway, he sniff, he pull he doesnt listen but hes managing for the handler so the handler think is ok and only wanting to correct the bit he cant handle like the greeting. But what I do is saying ok, we start again and start correcting for the sniff, the pull and the minor things the doge he does wrong, we getting that right first soe the dog is beautiful, then we taking for the bigger distraction and the dog hes much better becuase is foundation is more beautiful than just average. Joe

I seen this video is about the working dog has high social aggression and rank drive and teaching how to handle this type of dog. Is not about teaching the pet not to be snappy is for serious working dog handling. Joe

ahh I was waiting for that old wives tale to pop up :D now tell me that doing that will make a dog really aggressive or terrified in the long term. :D You can't force a dog to associate a correction with one behaviour and not a stimulus or stimuli or even multiple behaviours. That's the danger of using punishments. If you won't acknowledge it that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If you know what level of punisher to use and are looking for the fallout so you can shape away from it if it's there then it can be a small risk, but to say it won't occur is a very bold statement. If it theoretically can occur, then it might. No, this is why I am just working out how the correction is not working for some of the people. The dog is teached to assoaicte the corrrection with disobeying command, has nothing to with any stimulus. You tell the dog sit, he dont sit you tell him no and give him a correction for refuse to do command he knows. You teaching the dog the handler is his biggest distraction and he must listen to the handler in all circumstance otherwise he cop one is how the correction is done. You must making sure the dog knowing the command first then correction for disobeying. Is not just correction on the dog becuase he jump around, you have to give command when he jump around first. So he jump around on the bad behavior you give him a job, sit and he not sitting and still jumping then you give him a correcting for not sit, you dont giving the correction for the jumping is where is wrong becuase the handler doesnt know how to do correction training properly and they stuff it up and say this correcting isnt working is no good. If they correcting properly, is good and the dog he learning. Joe

ahh I was waiting for that old wives tale to pop up :D now tell me that doing that will make a dog really aggressive or terrified in the long term. The point is dog gets corrected for lunging/jumping, not yelled at, corrected with a collar. The owner then shows the dog calmly what is wanted and the dog is rewarded. If the dog goes to repeat the unwanted behaviour after being shown what is wanted it gets a correction. Has nothing to do with the stranger, dogs are not that stupid. Plus a prong on a pup ... not really that warranted. Some dogs do decide to throw tantrums and death rolls in prongs because the new sensation just overloads them. This thoughts in my opinion is wrong I am sorry on the prong. The prong using properly has much less pull onto the leash for the effect, so on the checking chain you needing to yanking on the chain hard for the correction but on the prong giving gentle little tug do the same job is much better correction tool. Sometimes is better to put the best tool on the dog first instead of using 10 collars that not working to ending up on the prong anyway. Is better to using the prong first before the dog getting bad behavior and learning wrong from the collars not working. Is not the collar causing the dog to the overload, is the other ending on the leash who does this, the handler is in control not the dog. Joe

I am in disagreement that a dog needs to be at level to wear the prong. If the dog needing check chain or the martingale, the prong is better tool and nicer on the dog, far less error can be made on the prong from bad handling and checking chain probably worse tool of all in my opinion. Joe

Yes, the reason because you using the chain on the dog making you a bad person, must be using the clicker and the treat then makes you good person is what happening on training today? Personally on this dog I using the prong collar or slipping collar and give him little pinch on the neck, NO I tell him in the breaking sit, I am thinking slipping collar is better than prong for taking drive from the dog to settle. Ecollar I probably not use in this behavior is better for handler to have restraining on the leash so the dog he know the correction come from the handler. Joe

This situation is very sad and my condolance to the poster on this, but we needing to think the dog is the dog, they dont know the rules not to injure and kill like the humans, they fight to win is what they know when this happens and sometimes with small and big dog, the small dog can loose is life but doesnt mean the big dog is killer. If the big dog fighting dog is size, probably no one die, just a couple of injury we fixing easily. Is hard on the emotional if a dog he kill another dog and in our ruling we say he must die too for what he done, but in the dog world is not working like this is different when big dog killing small dog is not like a serial axe murder, it happens from size mismatching on the fight should be in my opinion to look at before euthanising other dog in the revenge. Joe

If the demand for a show quality pup is in the market and the breeder has a good example my opinion is good pup should sell for more. My experience is for many years on the working dog and the good drives in the pup will always sell for more for a working job than pups low in drive will sell as pets for less is normal happening on the working puppys? Joe

Is the prestige of feeling like the greatest show winning is why they will pay more so the breeders should charge more is fair enough if the qulaity to winning shows is there on the pup why not?. Is not getting rich breeding dogs, is hard work and is what you pay for, the work the breeder put up to produce a better litter than someone else. Joe

kiesha09' date='15th Apr 2011 - 12:45 PM' post='5257417'] I said this in the other thread. I'm a Cesar supporter because I don't think anyone devotes more time, money, energy etc to the well-being of dogs all over the world than what Cesar does. I think he gets results, and through his books, I have a male entire doberman who's a wonderful and appreciable dog. But I hate hate hate that so many people think they safely and/or effectively implement Cesar's methods after watching a couple of episodes. I wish he put more emphasis on the whole, I'm a professional, doing this wrong can have terrible consequences and if you're not a professional you will probably do this wrong etc etc. I think he does it for the money not just the well being of dogs!! Secondly there are many other trainers who invest far more to the well-being of dogs than he does. I think Cesar is not short on the money and he does well in the business of training dogs and smarter on the business than the trainers whos better than him at training the dogs. Taking drive from the dog is not hard in the training, ok for the pet owner is hard I understand this and Cesar helping on the pet, but is much harder keeping the drive up on the dog and keeping control on the dogs drive which the Cesar doesnt do this and if someone hire him to do this I think he get splinters scratching his head to work out how he do this? Joe

Wait, wait, wait - so you're saying Cesar doesn't have magical powers? What's next - clickers don't have magical powers? Is nothing sacred any more?!? If having the arms and legs and head on top like the Cesar, maybe we all have magical powers deep in our souls, yes? Cesar he have good understanding on the dog no worries, but much bull is projected from the Cesar also. I see one of is video taking the leadership and calming control on the Boxer Dog, he say to the owner, look how marvell I am doing this and the owner he looking at Cesar as is hero ok. What I see is Cesar choking the dog with his slip leash and the dog hes much better in the behave when he cant breath properly of couse?. But all the owner see is the dog not reacting as he did and he is calmer with Cesar leading the ship, of course hes calmer when he cant breath but the owner dont know the truth in the matter you see? He think Cesar bring his own leash to save wearing out his becuase hes a good bloke, but my point is Cesar dont using the owner leash because is leash cant have the choke control to bring the calm in the dog is the truth on this Boxer Dog I seeing Joe

This is common sense that you pay more for the better pup, why you paying show class for a dud and why taking the dud when the same money buying a good one? This is silly concept I am thinking they all the same price becuase they costing the same to raise up from birth? In that case the duds should be the base price of raising up and better one's costing more is fair enough? Joe Joe, What is a better pup to the pet buyer? What type of dog that is worth more money to a pet buyer? What is a lessor pup to the pet buyer? What type of dog is worth less money to a pet buyer? This depends on what the pet buyer wants, yes, so they have a choice perhaps, but low qulaity pup cannot be same price as high quality pup and if the breeder say to me Joe, here is 3 puppies you can choose from a dud, an ok one and a beautiful example and they all the same price, I choosing the beautiful one is natural. If the dud is half price and I am wanting a pet maybe I pay less and be happy? Joe

So a dud to you is a pup that wouldn't win shows? irrelevant of temperament and health? Of course is a dud the pup of not showing quality if the breeding purpose is to producing the show dogs. In my lovely breed dear to my heart the German Shepherd Dog, I buy only dogs that wont win shows is the show dogs that are duds in the breeding of the working dog today. Personally I dont buy show dog for wanting a Shepherd Dog for working which for working is what makes the Shepherd Dog what hes made for. Joe

This is common sense that you pay more for the better pup, why you paying show class for a dud and why taking the dud when the same money buying a good one? This is silly concept I am thinking they all the same price becuase they costing the same to raise up from birth? In that case the duds should be the base price of raising up and better one's costing more is fair enough? Joe

Cesar also makes the comment that he's often not dealing with aggressive dogs, just fearful ones. One episode that comes to mind is the one with the 2 great danes that the owners deemed aggressive - but a chicken wire fence kept them back. Cesar was like, if they were actaully aggressive, they'd leap over/break through, they're just scared because they have no leader and they are struggling with all the responsibility they feel (so trying to keep everyone away). End of episode - dog has full trust in him and lies on its back in the pool with its owner holding him, because owner now understands his dog doesn't want to have to worry about everything, so he is setting the boundaries for him and dog can relax. I said this in the other thread. I'm a Cesar supporter because I don't think anyone devotes more time, money, energy etc to the well-being of dogs all over the world than what Cesar does. I think he gets results, and through his books, I have a male entire doberman who's a wonderful and appreciable dog. But I hate hate hate that so many people think they safely and/or effectively implement Cesar's methods after watching a couple of episodes. I wish he put more emphasis on the whole, I'm a professional, doing this wrong can have terrible consequences and if you're not a professional you will probably do this wrong etc etc. Yes, this is correct that the Cesar would deal with fear aggression more than the social active aggression, but first you have to stop the behavior to beginning leadership of the dog. Is true what he says and is similar in the principals of Keohler except Cesar showing the result from the calm where the Koehler projecting on the dog he stop from fear of correcting, but Cesar still do the correction the same as Koehler on beginning of approach but is not so obvious. What I say if you watching closely the Cesar, he tackle the problem head on and walking the dog into discomforting zone but he also choking out the dog to remove the response he dont wanting. This is not magical power from the Cesar whispering on the dog, is power from the slip leash removing drive from the dog is how it works on the beginning of is training. Joe

It depends what mindsetting the growl is reinforcing, If you using the aggressive growl reinforcing is good boy to growl in aggressive mindsetting then commanding the growl on this basing will lead him into aggressive state yes. If you training from the play growl, no worries the dog hes not switching aggression and nothing to with aggression in the dogs mind. I train on the personal protection dog the growl as first in the warning for aggression response and we train is in the english language "watch him" command and the dog focus and growl then we training to switch off the growl "leave it" or relax something like this and he stopping the growl for giving example on the aggression growl. So is important what you basing the growl for teaching how the dog he sees what you wanting from his growling, yes? Joe

Most of this dogs behaving poor on the leash on the Cesar video are intially choked out and is reason why he use his slip leash. What you see with the sshhh and the kick and the dog submits is precursing of another choke out but we not see the choke out too much on the video, you see on the video what the Cesar want us to see and making him looking good training, yes? You do the sshhh and light kick on the dog when hes zoning in, is does nothing pfffff, choke him out a few times after the sshhh and the light kick and he knows whats coming next and responds in submission. Is similar to the William Keohler?. What dog drop is ears and back away on the ssshhh is bull? Not to saying that the Cesar doesnt fix the dog because intimidation techniqing does fix the dog, but is not magical mind power his doing its old school training in the revamping is looking better, nothing is special rocket sceincing in the Cesar methods. I give him a couple of Shepherd Dogs he alpha roll on them they kill him before he get them to the floor is fact in dogs of high in fighting drive alpha roll is no good. Joe

I see this many times where the dog he out of control and is a pest so we desex him and training him which goes in both hands, desex and the train yes? When is behavior improving they say isn't this desexing beautiful look at is behaving now? But is not from the desexing his behavior improve is the bloody training which happen the same if he got his hormone or he hasnt becuase what improve him is the training. I tearing my hair on this before is not the desexing, the training on any dog over riding hormones even in the drive to mate with nice girl, my Shepherd Dogs come to my heel no worries and forget the nice girl to believe the dog is uncontrolled rapist on season bitch is bull. Most of the young dog he don't know how to do it anyway and take him long time to work him out the birds and the bees. Is not like there is nice girl and all hell she braking loose, he have look a bit of a sniff but if he trained properly and command heir, he come no worries into heel position piece of cake. Joe

Nothing could be further from the truth. In LAT (or it's variants) you condition the dog to engage with the trigger without aggression or fear or over-excitement or whatever the problem is. There is no distraction, in fact you are drawing their attention to the stimulus, visually at first. This is definitely not LAT and I haven't seen anyone do anything like this and make any serious claims about their ability to train reactive or aggressive dogs. You get closer as the dog gets better at dealing with the stimulus, which can happen very quickly. Like any training, you don't start in the deep end. You wouldn't do it with sit or stay or any other behaviour, why would you do it with an aggressive or fearful dog? The most difficult dealing with the aggession in the dog is know what is aggression is coming from because barking and the teeth may look the same but can come from different triggering in the mind of the dog. In the working dog is sharpness and civil aggression can be best tackle him head on and teach him whos boss becuause the sharp civil dog is looking to leadership becuase he think he have to do the job is up to him. Who you handling this dog is saying NO, I tell you went to go aggressive not you so pull your head in is what we doing here. But this wont work with fear and flight aggression becuase the dog too easily getting spooked and you having to slow like Aidan2 say, his right on the spooky aggressive dog you don't throw into the deepest end first is wrong. Then you can have the social aggression in the dog and what this one is, the dog is confident dog and domimant dog, he get aggressive and want to bite people becuase he can. He think who are you on my street, I am the boss here, I owning the street and if you not piss off, I bite you see?. This is the social aggression and dominance and this type on the dog are the ones who often handler aggression also. But in the social aggression, this dogs in not fear based so you can easily distract the dog for better behavior, the social aggression is the easy aggression to fixing, but not many dogs you finding on the pet marketing having this trait is unusual. Pit Bull is common on social aggression some German Shepherd Dogs and the Rottweiller can have this trait, is very good trait for working dog for experienced handler but very danger with novice person owning the dogs like this, but trait is easily fixed for good of the dog if you know is done no worries. Fear and the flight aggression is the hardest to fix and my opinion is you can fix but never trust fear base nerve. Joe

a dog wont actively chase down and bite without positive reinforcement. That dog could have been treated better then they're own children and in many cases they are. All bitework is based on heave reinforcement both from the handler and the decoy being 'chased away' by the dog. The bite element engages the dogs prey drive and also done properly, defense drive. This is about bitework training not animal psychology, unless you have learned about the training you will know nothing about it. I'm just sick to death of people making uneducated assumptions about it. Bitework is enjoyed by dogs of the right temperament and training, they will snap their collars to get to the decoy just for one bite. No sorry this in not right. Dogs with the social aggression or civil drive in defense will chase and bite strangers no worries. To bite him in the groin is not a place the decoy is happy for training so is doubting the dog is protection trained and more likey I thinking defense aggression in the trait. Joe

Most dogs is hard to training for the novice and the big dogs are harder to handle if the obedience is lacking on the dog so sometimes big dog can have worse feeling than smaller dog with same training methods that the big dog is not training as easily. The German Shepherd Dog, Rottweiler and the Dobermnan I finding similar type of dogs in the training probably more German Shepherd Dogs around to finding good focus in the dog than Dobermann becuase not all dogs of this breeds on the listings are the same individually. I had some real buggers on the German Shepherd Dogs very stubbon and some others beautiful like they been here before in previous life, so it depends on the individual dog too. Joe