JoeK

So you're saying that a registered breeder should have no control over what happens with their dogs. Just let anyone breed from them or show a dog that is not a good representation. The dog may be healthy but not ideal for breeding or showing, You can call them control freaks but these people are trying to protect the quality of purebred dogs, to the benefit of pet owners and breeders/showies alike. When they sell the dog, is no longer their dog to make the decisions what happens. When you sell the house, you cant telling new owner what color the front door must be is same thing with the dog and if wanting control of something dont sell it is my thinking? There is good breeders and the ones not having much clue so having the kennel registration and putting two dogs together doesnt meaning they know whats best to call this shot always. I have seen few times in the working dogs very nice male who should be breeding but breeder wont change registration on the dog to main, so this power on the breeder doesnt helping the future of the breed either. Joe

Limited registration sounding more to me like being control freak for the breeder. Is no ruling on the kennel club for pets must be limited registration, that ruling what someone make up himself is not the facts for registration. If the dog having major fault disqualify from the show or fault contradicting to the standard is fair enough on the limited registration like we used to have with the longhair Shepherd Dog or the white Shepherd, but is good dog and meet the standard, limited register restricting rights of owning pedigree dog. Is either good dog or faulty dog on my opinion, is good should be main registration and faulty on limited cant having both bites on the cherry to saying is excellent breeding on the limited, my opinion is excellent breeding should be on the mains. Joe

By me. ;) Let's not get confused between motivators and reinforcement. They might be the same or they might not. Whatever the case, the effect a reward has on behaviour is not dependent on the animal's personality, even if that animal may be acting under a personality-specific internal motivator (say, exploration for example). There is no question in my mind that personality affects dog behaviour, and there is evidence to support it. However, evidence that those personality affects are genetic is pretty thin on the ground, despite studies in other animals that have involved selectively bred personality types. There is plenty of evidence that personality expression (through behaviours) can spontaneously change to suit environmental changes, and is not hugely stable over time. I think everyone assumes there is a genetic component, but AFAIK no one much knows what it is beyond it possibly has something to do with dopamine and/or serotonin receptors. When someone can tell me the method by which 'weak nerve' is entirely genetic, then I'll believe them. Until then, I think it's unfair to declare a dog's behaviour cannot be changed on the grounds that it is a result of the dog's 'weak nerve'. MOST dogs will get defensive if they get frightened, and I have met very few dogs that haven't been frightened at some stage. I know dogs that have learnt to be reactive about something in particular. If it works for one thing, it's not a stretch of the imagination for the dog to start trying it for other anxiety-inducing situations as well. This is not necessarily genetic, and even if it is, we don't know to what extent. I think it's an excellent idea to avoid breeding from lines of dogs that seem perpetually nervous, but I think it's a terrible idea to explain broad swathes of behaviour in a single dog with a declaration that it's genetic and therefore can't be altered. Greetings Corvus, I am respecting your study and knowledge of the theory, but is time for my opinion you taking the leash and apply in the real dog will answer more questions for yourself the theroy people still trying to working out. In the genes on the behavior of the Shepherd Dog, there was time with few green dogs I could work the dog and I knew on the trait whos the sire of the litter because they all display weak nerve off this dog and his brother. You putting another sire over the bitch and the problem is gone in the next pups, ok maybe we not having rocket sciencing to explain this, but we know if you sticking this bloodline dog on the is bitch is producing pups is no good on the nerve trait. Weak nerve on the working dog has poor recovery from scary or painful experience and what happens is dog may having the good prey drive so is toy motivated and can teach him to chase the decoy and bite no worries, but when the decoy pressure the dog of weak nerve, the dog run away. So this nerve on the working dog deploy to catching offender and turn around and telling the dog piss off and the dog spook and run away is useless working dog see? The same happening on the weak nerve dog if he jump the fence and fall off sometimes taking weeks for him to have another jump. A hard nerve dog fall off the fence, he has another jump straight away and will even do so with sore leg. When the mind and body of the dog is pressured hard on the working dog, the nerve on the dog show up quickly and makes the difference on what dog should be working and what dog should be pet. Joe

I thought that training was the most effective way to sort this problem... ie if the training had been good to start with and the handler hadn't skipped steps... they wouldn't be in this situation. Note - that doesn't apply to brain damaged dogs - but a prong collar isn't going to help those to loose lead walking either. So as far as skipping steps are concerned, I think your comments are way off mark here - and being in "this situation" has been incredibly stressful and confidence shattering. Perhaps you could be abit more sensitive when you make thoughtless remarks like this. To BORDERBO: I am so sorry that you had to give up on the dog you loved but think you should comfort yourself in knowing that you gave it your best shot. I also agree wholeheartedly with your reply to the first comment - totally uncalled for. In hindsight we would probably all use different techniques but all we ask is that some people should try walking a mile in our shoes before they judge. I,too, have a high drive/reactive GSD and although an experienced GSD handler, I have never had such a challenge. After doing all the so-called "right/PC" training that is now indoctrinated in to most training clubs, we still looked like a novice handler with an out-of-control dog after 12 months in the club scene. The next 3-4 months I spent in the "wilderness", chastising myself for not being strong enough to control my beloved girl in public with other dogs but had a dog that was brilliant at home. I finally enlisted the help of Steve Courtenay (K9Pro) and the prong collar and I am so thankful I did. After 6 weeks we have improved so much that it is hard to think back to the months we wasted on a flat collar with a non-food/non toy driven dog. Now, instead of looking for escape routes when we see other dogs on our daily walk, I welcome the chance to incorporate the lessons Steve has taught me and Skye and I are becoming the "team" I always knew we could be. Take care BorderBo - I am sure your dog soulmate will be out there. Skye GSD, is not high drive dog causing reactive behaving is over sharpness in the genes of the breeding causing this and nothing you do raising this dogs would make a difference is how the dog is born and only fix is training out the reactivity, is nothing to do with poor handling and bad owner is very challenging trait for the best owner and handler to work with. Unless you have trained and handled a sharp Shepherd Dog before and learned the trait, is easy for somebody to assumption you do it wrong from their experiencing of training dogs with sharpness trait as flat as a tack. Sharpness is useful trait for easy training of the guard dog, but for pet dog my opinion is breeders should avoid this trait with better selection of breeding from more stable temperaments in their lines? Joe Interesting, Jo .... do you think this relates to GSD's only or is it your opinion that this genetic predisposition applies to all breeds? Reactivity in most dogs is fear reaction caused by weak nerves. Bad experience can triggering fear response but weak nerve which is genetic in the dog is what causing dog to have difficulty getting over bad experience, so most reactivity is from nerve problem is genetic on my opinion in all dogs yes. Joe

I cant seeing too many votes for the legislating people to drop dangerous dog acts. I would say most people would be against this, but we see what happens, yes? I have a love for getting money for doing nothing, maybe I rob a bank and using love as excuse? I am joking of course! Joe

Talking of this Gentle Leader, we needing to know that this device and other like this one were made by training faction against giving corrections on the dog. Is not made because it is better tool for training the right behavior is made for training the right behavior without corrections is what its for. I have very much the admiration for what the motovating training can do for getting a dog to do things, but often they fail on getting the dog not to do something and they do very complex exercise which taking great skill and practice to save the dog a good correction and sometimes a good correction on the collar is what the dog needs most. Motivational works well on dogs with good genes to behave but problem dogs with the genes to misbehave and disobey in my opinion need little bit of the stick to setting the boundaries and consequences. I would have more faith in the Steve the K9 Pro fitting the prong on the lunger for retraining than the gentle leader and food clicking on this behavior. Joe

I thought that training was the most effective way to sort this problem... ie if the training had been good to start with and the handler hadn't skipped steps... they wouldn't be in this situation. Note - that doesn't apply to brain damaged dogs - but a prong collar isn't going to help those to loose lead walking either. So as far as skipping steps are concerned, I think your comments are way off mark here - and being in "this situation" has been incredibly stressful and confidence shattering. Perhaps you could be abit more sensitive when you make thoughtless remarks like this. To BORDERBO: I am so sorry that you had to give up on the dog you loved but think you should comfort yourself in knowing that you gave it your best shot. I also agree wholeheartedly with your reply to the first comment - totally uncalled for. In hindsight we would probably all use different techniques but all we ask is that some people should try walking a mile in our shoes before they judge. I,too, have a high drive/reactive GSD and although an experienced GSD handler, I have never had such a challenge. After doing all the so-called "right/PC" training that is now indoctrinated in to most training clubs, we still looked like a novice handler with an out-of-control dog after 12 months in the club scene. The next 3-4 months I spent in the "wilderness", chastising myself for not being strong enough to control my beloved girl in public with other dogs but had a dog that was brilliant at home. I finally enlisted the help of Steve Courtenay (K9Pro) and the prong collar and I am so thankful I did. After 6 weeks we have improved so much that it is hard to think back to the months we wasted on a flat collar with a non-food/non toy driven dog. Now, instead of looking for escape routes when we see other dogs on our daily walk, I welcome the chance to incorporate the lessons Steve has taught me and Skye and I are becoming the "team" I always knew we could be. Take care BorderBo - I am sure your dog soulmate will be out there. Skye GSD, is not high drive dog causing reactive behaving is over sharpness in the genes of the breeding causing this and nothing you do raising this dogs would make a difference is how the dog is born and only fix is training out the reactivity, is nothing to do with poor handling and bad owner is very challenging trait for the best owner and handler to work with. Unless you have trained and handled a sharp Shepherd Dog before and learned the trait, is easy for somebody to assumption you do it wrong from their experiencing of training dogs with sharpness trait as flat as a tack. Sharpness is useful trait for easy training of the guard dog, but for pet dog my opinion is breeders should avoid this trait with better selection of breeding from more stable temperaments in their lines? Joe

Yes, I have seen the Pano on the pup and the crucial ligament for the diagnose of the HD was wrong. The pano common in working line Shepherd Dogs when they overfeed and over train young dog to be sporting champion too early in is life and he get a limping which swap from different legs. Is happens when trying to building 40kg pup at 6 months for ego producing the biggest Shepherd pup. Joe

I remember someone taking high profile breeder of the Shepherd Dogs to court action in Germany for pup with the HD in is hips and what happened is too many variable to cause bad hips in the raising of the pup. The breeder comply with the testing on the parents and win the case. I am not knowing the court how is working here, but in German law they say the breeder did nothing wrong and could do nothing to prevent the bad hips on the pup. If was me selling pup with bad hips on a litter I sell for top quality, I would give a refund or another pup for my own conscionce. Is bad feeling to sell pup when hes no good on the health I try to do the right thing to helping the owner get the pup they wanting. Sometimes is best to let sick pup fly to heaven we not really ever knowing how the sick pup suffering on bad health. Joe

They are banned/restricted because Australia Is a land of sheep, and they followed suit with the British I ask sensible question please, if the breed is not a problem and is good placid and reliable for nice pet, why is so many countries ban the breed becuase how can so many get it wrong in their opinion then saying the Pitbull is dangerous dog if it is really beautiful dog that could never hurting a fly? I dont seeing any action to banning the poodle or the Labrador why is this? Joe

I not seeing the outlaw behavior is good path to be trusted with reason for unbanning the breed? If attitude to own the dog is up your bum on the law, then perhaps is up your bum on proper handling of the dog too? Is demonstrating the Pitbull people most are outlaw personality anyway so why should community care on their opinion of the breed or community to supporting them for unbanning is what I see happening? Joe

I know you responded on this comment to someone else and straight away acquiesced and said you might have been wrong then - so how the heck can you come out and state with authority that the lady is 100% correct? One minute you're stating you're inexperienced and then you're giving expert unsubstantiated advice? Crikey lady....if you are indeed on DOL to learn, then don't try and give expert advice if you're not experienced. Google 'breaking stick' - thats going to be something you can read up on for starters. ETA - that a breaking stick is just ONE technique that can be effective. Theres been a number of threads here on DOL over the years on that one subject along with seperating fighting dogs. That wouldn't worry some dogs at all. Not the ones I've had experience with. Definitely don't know a lot about Greyhounds though. I would like to get a Rescue 'grey' one day when we get a bit more room and I've had done a bit more reading on them. I reckon they're terrific dogs. Grabbing the back legs is the best way to braking dog fight when nothing else to use, but the problem is re engaging when you let him down to watching out for. Most dogs dont grab on harder and shocks them to releasing. You can tie a leash around the belly of the dog is someone to helping to hold is back legs off the ground until he settle, but is always possibility of getting bit in nasty circumstnce from fighting. Joe

People saying breed should not come into thinking on attack, but breed does present likelyhood more or less. When I walking my wife Labrador and see off leash dogs, different breeds causing me different levels of worry if the owner can handle them and if the dog has obedience if they see me and my dog and come rushing. I dont worry about little dogs, but if I see German Shepherd Dog, Belgian Malinois, Rottweiler, Doberman, Akita, Husky, Maremma, Cattle dog, Bull breedings and cross genes of these breeds on the loose, my worry level is higher than seeing Labrador, Standard Poodle, Cocker Spaniel, even Great Dane or softer dog you can shew him away more easily that dont having the genetic guts to engage a fight on those breeds. Sure any dog has potential for biting but some breeds have more potential than others. Over the years I have had many dogs rush at me hundreds of times some for play some for aggression but on the aggression rushing most have been the breedings and cross genes on the dogs I mentioning causing me most worry is true. I have plenty Labrador and the Golden Retriever rushing for play, only one I remember aggression barking and one was Maremma I thinking was Golden Retriever. I have plenty Bull breedings rushing most aggressive only couple for play same for Shepherd Dogs and Rottweiler most rushing in defensive stand. In my opinion is bull to saying every breed is all the same on aggression potential is not true on my experiences. Joe

I never said you called all big dog owners idiots, just that all sizes and breeds of dogs can have idiot owners. We need to concentrate on the problem and instead of banning breeds which just makes them more attractive to the people who want tough, illegal dogs deal with the owners. Make it compulsory to do obedience courses, make it so instead of registration, dog owners have to go through a course and get a license. Regulate owners not dogs. And then if your dog attacks a human or another animal unprovoked you get charged and your license suspended until further notice. We need to be hard with the people who allow their dogs to do these things. Sorry,but I disagree. You are asking ALL dog owners to pay the price for those who are irresponsible and instead of BSL,we end up with all dogs ownership being restricted. and the "black market" extending to all dogs. Education in dog ownership and responsibilities is badly needed now.This is partly because dog and their care are already marginalised here in Aus. Peoples experiences with dogs is limited.Further restrictions on ownership would only be a self perpetuating cycle. The current laws should be enough if they were enforced properly.If thats not working,why would more legislation work. So can you tell me why RB owners are the only ones who have to pay the price for Irresponsible owners? bare In mind Irresponsible owners come attached with many 'other' dog breeds not affected by BSL Another case of I really don't care about RB owners as I don't own one and It doesn't concern me! Exactly. I am sick and tired of owners of other breeds brushing the issue off or coming up with answers like "why should I have to....." (mind you I know there are many people here who have nothing to do with RB breeds who are very against BSL, so please don't take offence if you are one of them ) It is all well and dandy when it isn't affecting you or your dogs right. Some body telling me the Pitbull has been banned from 1992 on the import with issue on is future, so if this true is 19 year ago, so why is people still dealing with this breed?. People keep buying the Pitbull or dogs looking like the Pit in cross genes and complain? Is common knowledge this type of dog is target so my thinking is to avoiding the knock to the door to put innocent dog at risk because of breed, get a breed with no target for this makes sense, yes? Maybe in bad area is good to carry gun in case you mugging victim on the street, but if guns illegal and getting caught with a gun you have trouble happening when is a law like the Pitbull. Doesnt matter if the law right or wrong, if is the law and you getting caught braking the law is only thing is cop it on the chin? Joe

What happening is scary experience we must respect how she was feeling when it happens. Her dog is bitten, she bitten is no good. The dog didnt coming over for lick and kiss and give her nice experience, he attack and biting of course she feeling negative on the aggressive dog is natural for this after scary incident and biting her and her dog? Joe

In all honesty, the dog parks presenting many risks and you cannot controlling who going there and control how the people handle their dogs, so my opinion is if you wanting best opportunity to keeping your dog and yourself safe from inleashed aggressive dogs, dont go to dog parks becuase you cant control what maybe going to happen in these places and is harder to identify the people to dob them in to the ranger so they get away with it too easily and dont care about controlling their dogs properly. Joe

Diane Jessup actually has over 60 working titles (inc SchH and ring sports), has trained working guard and police dogs, and is an expert witness on behalf of police k9 units. I've enjoyed your latest incarnation the most, entertaining at times, but don't push your luck. The story behind this thread illustrates why we ought to take dogs seriously. I speak on social aggression Aidan2 and someone saying what I say is wrong dropping Diane Jessup name. I don't knowing her standing on the social aggression but I know the Dr Helmut Raiser standing and work on his principal for many years and have attending many of his seminar and training schooling. If the Diane Jessup has different value on the social aggression good luck to her, I go with how Raiser teaches working drive and denonstrate on the field for your eyes to see ok? There is plenty of theory on the dog and plenty of experts oppose each view what is right and wrong toss a coin maybe, but what I writing is on my opinion from the leash in my hand, is not rewriting of someone idea I am thinking sounds good to me. I working on aggression most of my life and reading some work from aggression experts and thinking I am knowing 20 dogs this method not working for the psycho on this dogs, so if this expert I may disagree is my right for opinion yes? Joe Having a different opinion on how one trains their dogs Is one thing, but belittling another fellow trainer on a public forum Is another, one whom I might add has a hell of a lot more experience In the APBT than you ever will... You've certainly lost my respect and I won't be reading any more from you And lastly........ this here Is absolute rubbish! I don't know which anti BSL people you're talking about, but that Is clearly not the sentiments here! Lo Pan Is right: The anti BSL clubs cannot controlling the distribution of this animals into the hands of the bad owners in the black market, hows opening the law to allowing Pitbull freely going prevent the bad owners getting them? Joe

Thank you. JoeK - I am anti-BSL and a Bull Breed owner (An "Amstaff" and a BullArab type crossbreed) I am well aware of the pre-disposition that some breeds of dogs and many breeds of bullies have to aggression. I am aware of it and I take measures to make sure my now 9 months old Amstaff X has the best chance to be a well socialised ambassador for her breed. It is this acceptance and the resulting training/socilaising that is the difference between a responsible owner and an irresponsible one. You will find that the "Anti-BSL club" is pointing out that it is the irresponsible owners who take no steps to prevent their dog becoming aggressive or worse the people who also mistreat them that cause the aggressive side to become dominant and dangerous not that the dogs do not have the pre-disposition. Many times the irresponsible owners are just ignorant and do not realise the training they need to put in and then don't manage the dogs correctly.(I certinaly was when I got my first dog and she now has DA issues but you know what I acknowledge that, I acknowledge my part in her issues and I am responsible when it comes to her now ie: making sure she cannot escape and not putting her into situations that will compromise her) Look at it this way if we wipe out the pit bulls what breed is next?? How many breeds are wiped off the face of the plant before you will realise BSL is a load of tosh created to make the public feel safe and the politics look good. Maybe when the only dogs allowed are under 10kgs?? Poodiful We will never change everyone's mind I guess. Maybe one day you will own a breed who has a bad reputation and then you will understand the frustration and sadness that it causes when people belittle and demonize not only the breed but in turn your dog. Yes, I understanding the anti-BSL club intention is not the problem I see, is the problem the anti BSL club refusing to understanding why dogs having the potential in the genes for aggression is not a good thing in the community because dealing with aggressive dog for the responsible ownership and keeping thing safe is job of dedication that many pet owners cannot do properly so they say if they getting rid of dogs like this then is something dogs owners not having to deal with is a better thing for the pet. Is very difficult to make dog aggressive to attack people if they dont having aggression in the genes, is why they dont using Labrador as defense dog in the police and use him for sniffing. Is the same reason they dont using high drive German Shepherd at the airport for sniffing around the people becuase the wrong trigger on this dogs he can bite people where the Labrador wont do this so easily and safer breed around the public. The deed not the breed thing for me is wearing thin becuase is stupid saying this and everyone know some breed is more likey to have aggression in his genes than others except the anti BSL club is the main grouping who not recoginise this and becuase they dont recognising is one reason my opnion is they not taken seriously on their argument. Joe

Oh I agree wholeheartedly! The problem is that I am skeptical of your identity and claimed experience. Aidan2 is obvious to me on your postings you have good experience in the pet dog training and behavior mechanics on the dog to share knowledge with the people and is up to them if they thinking is good knowledge for taking on board and if people thinking I am wrong, its ok is there right for thinking that I am not upset from this and is how the world ticks. I am not trainer looking for work to competing against other trainers for customer to pick me for needing resume production, is for me nice get together with people here to chat about the dog, have bit of pleasure and maybe learning something new. I dont knowning any body personal in this boards doesnt matter to me, the people having communicating skill and the love of the dog is all we needing for good chat and discussion and the rest doesnt matter for me. Joe

Is very interesting to reading the posting of the anti BSL club. It must be Bull breed is only breed where the active or social aggression doesnt happen. Is the first step in the treatment for obsession is to admit it like the alcoholic and the gambler addiction. Is nice to see admission that on the very rare occassion the Bull breed may be a little bit funny on the other dogs backing up with never on the people and they attck becuase they dont socialise or they hit with sticks and put on chains and every other reason to excluding the breed from active aggression is getting stupid. Plenty breeds can have active aggression in the genes of the dog and Bull breed is one of them and the Shitzu is another except he only got the little choppers and hard to killing people. Until the anti BSL club can admit the Bull breeding is just as credible for having active aggression in the trait as the Shitzu or the German Shepherd Dog and admit the Bull breeding is high on the list of aggression traits with the best of them, this denial state of the mind is not going to ever fixing the problem, If you feeling happy to believe the reason why Bull breedings attacking is the socialise, chaining up and hitting with a stick bring out the aggression otherwise they all beautfil and never hurting a fly, keep believing that is ok by me no worries, but at least the working dog people know the type of German Shepherd Dog and the Rottweiler, Malinois etc can have the trait of active aggression and when they do they placing the dog with owners who can handle them safely and train properly, maybe taking page from the working dog book where the breeds is not targeting so much like the Pitbull, maybe helping fix the problem. Joe

Excuse my skepticism. Aidan2 sometimes practice is better than theories. You probably have theory how to train protection dog and probably what I say is different to your theory or what someone elses saying, but until you train sucessful protection dog yourself and absorbing experience to your blood our page in the book is different, yes. I have done some clicker training on my wife Labrador, never had a clicker before is not bad interesting learning something new!

Diane Jessup actually has over 60 working titles (inc SchH and ring sports), has trained working guard and police dogs, and is an expert witness on behalf of police k9 units. I've enjoyed your latest incarnation the most, entertaining at times, but don't push your luck. The story behind this thread illustrates why we ought to take dogs seriously. I speak on social aggression Aidan2 and someone saying what I say is wrong dropping Diane Jessup name. I don't knowing her standing on the social aggression but I know the Dr Helmut Raiser standing and work on his principal for many years and have attending many of his seminar and training schooling. If the Diane Jessup has different value on the social aggression good luck to her, I go with how Raiser teaches working drive and denonstrate on the field for your eyes to see ok? There is plenty of theory on the dog and plenty of experts oppose each view what is right and wrong toss a coin maybe, but what I writing is on my opinion from the leash in my hand, is not rewriting of someone idea I am thinking sounds good to me. I working on aggression most of my life and reading some work from aggression experts and thinking I am knowing 20 dogs this method not working for the psycho on this dogs, so if this expert I may disagree is my right for opinion yes? Joe

What actually triggering the dog on the first bite, is anyone knowing this for my interest to know what set him off intially? Joe

well said actually that quote is a load of excrement.. a myth perperated by the ignorant., try getting innformation from those who are knowledgable about dogs, training and the pitbull. Diane Jessup is an acknowledged pitbull 'expert' and her site give a warts and all opinion. I have immense respect for her. I also have had the joy of sharing part of my lifes journey with Jake.. a pitbull rescued from fighting. Jake stole my heart then shattered it into a million pieces 6 years later when he died.... No pitbull are not for every dog owner, just as livestock guardian breeds are bot suitable for all dog owners, http://www.workingpitbull.com/ Helen In memory of Jake I am thinking Diane Jessup should learn why a dog bites which applies to any dog. I have trained 4 Pitbulls in protection in Europe, compared with German Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler they are hard dog to switch off the bite and too foggy in the head in active aggression is the reason why professional dont using these dogs. They have very high thresholding on the pain much higher than Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler,is not Pitbull are bad dog, they having some very nice working quality but can be very dangerous dog in the wrong hands. Becuase someone had nice Pitbull not hurting a fly, I have Shepherd Dogs like this too and ones with the right combination in the dominant genes want to kill everyone serious in the social aggression can happen in this breeds more than others breeds is very unlikely. Is time the Pitbull people taking the color from their spectical and looking through the clear glass in my opinion and who letting the team down is idiots who breed aggression in the dogs and sell them to anyone is the problem. If the dogs breeding in social agression was sold to people handling these dog properly like happenning with the Shepherd Dog and Rottweiler most of this Pitbull problems disapperaing. Is the people dealing in this dogs is the problem where it begins which needing some control. Same applying to breeding cross genetics of bit Mastiff, bit of Pitbull and bit of Rottweiler is stupid breeding on my opinion, mix all these breeds up with potential for aggressive traits is going to come out aggressive on some dogs for sure. Expert breeders on the working dogs get it wrong on the balance of nerve and aggression, this people knowing what they do and people doing a backyard presentation to stick on the Gumtree add for cheap Bull breeding of cross genes what temperament quality comes from this I am asking? Breed the proper Pitbull is no worries and sell them to people on the credential to own them is ok, but this bit of Mastiff and bit of Staffy and bit of Pitbull breedings on the backyard needing to get rid of this and people wanting a dog buy a proper one with the stable in the nerve and temperament for community adaption for the pet. Sure I agree is owners fault this dogs get out and kill the lady on the street, but the point is this poor lady go for a walk and she dont come home becuase 4 dogs killing her in attack. Is very high in active aggression for dogs to do this regardless of the breed is aggression level that does the killing not becuase the dog escaping the yard. If she having 4 Silky Terrier run from the yard the likelihood she die is minimal is what the breed argument comes about. Deed is too late for the punishment to help this lady when she dead. Joe

Maybe I taking one of this boys here to the police station an tell them is new defence dog because breed doesnt matter and the dog is what you making of him for the deed. Lets proving on the anti BSL section breed doesnt matter and we swapping German and Belgian Shepherd defence dog for the Silky Terrier. If he can do the job the Silky Terrier, then I join the anti BSL club and pay double membershipping fee. Joe