BorderBo

Well excluding the fact that dog's aren't children and you really cannot compare them... As one who has a dog like this, I couldn't agree more. Like everything in life, it's about balance. Just because someone has multiple dogs does not mean they are run together 24/7. My dogs rarely play together, they get along well in that we don't have any fights or misbehaviour and I don't think they dislike each other by any means but they all enjoy time on their own and would be happy in a single dog household. When I get my new puppy she won't be run with my adult dogs either. I will never understand the "dogs are pack animals" argument for taking your dog to the dog park or having them play with others all the time. The dogs at the dog park, random dogs on the street etc are NOT part of their pack, so why is considered natural that a dog plays with dozens and dozens of dogs outside of their pack? Goodness gracious, have you never seen two dogs having a really good rumble? It is the most blissfully joyful experience, and it puts a smile on my face every time. The creativity my dogs display when they play with each other is not replicated anywhere else in their lives, including when I'm shaping them! They learn all sorts of things in play, and there is nothing on this earth I can do with them that is more fun to them than wrestling with each other. Except maybe playing with the flirt pole for Erik. He's nuts about that thing. I wouldn't have it any other way. Seeing that pure joy, laughing when they do something unexpected or outrageously obnoxious to each other, being incredulous when they use a behaviour they learnt in training to evade a pursuer, and just enjoying watching them in full flight... Why WOULDN'T you want that?? It's my greatest joy in owning two dogs. I don't know what I'd ever do if I had dogs that didn't love to rumble. It would be boring. Well I have a dog who has very little interest in playing with other dogs and I can assure you it is not boring. I find watching a dog working excitedly with their owner far more joyful than watching dogs play with each other. My dog will 99% of the time choose herself to track scents instead of play with other dogs, so yes, I really fail to see what is so important or exciting about dogs playing with each other. This is something a breeder raised with me recently when I went out to meet her dogs, she wanted to make it clear to me that genetically her dogs will have little interest in playing with other dogs because it's simply impractical to have a working dog out in the field that wants to run off and play with other dogs. That's not even something the dogs have to be socialised or taught to do - they just naturally have a low value for other dogs because that is how they were bred. Which is ideal from my perspective.

Hmmmm ....I have had occasion to deal with Chris in a work capacity several times and I have always found him to be one of the nicest,down-to-earth and genuinely good-mannered blokes in media - sure, he is a media personality and this is reality TV we are dealing with (I am not a big fan of the genre) but in my experience, they don't come any nicer than Chris and I think he is easy on the eye, too.

For what it's worth, I tried K9 several times with my old girl who has since passed away and whilst she ate it up well enough, she was very restless for hours afterwards on each occasion. Couldn't settle, kept getting up and moving around, would then lie back down and try to settle but would be back up again, pacing around the house. I suspected it could be because the product was expanding further in her gut. She was a medium sized dog but I wondered if this was a wise food to feed a larger sized breed that could be suspeceptible to bloat. I followed the directions to a tee, too. I concluded that it just wasn't the right choice for her though I know other people who think highly of it. Just my personal experience with the product and not a criticism.

I have a very old SBT and I buy these for her. She has about 10 in different colours now. They keep her very toasty, they are light and don't seem go out of shape with numerous wears and washes. They also dry quickly and don't take up much space when rolled up in the drawer in winter (unlike knitted or padded coats). I also live in QLD but with age my girl feels the cold now so she wears hers 24/7. She wont settle if she is cold. I am so glad that your girl loves her Warmies - you're right ... they don't seem to go out of shape, despite numerous washes, dry quickly and are stretchy and comfortable to wear. My girl loved wearing her Warmies those last few Winters - I knew her as a dog who despised being restricted, particularly with dogs clothes, but those last few winters I could see she actually welcomed wearing them because like your girl, she felt the cold in her senior years. Hey, keep this to yourself but I have a spare Warmie down here in a size that would fit your girl, so PM me with your address details and I'll pop one in the post for her - she sounds like a good poster girl for the brand (with 10 different Warmies in her wardrobe she may not need one!).

Doggone Gorgeous which is endorsed by the RSPCA retail a very affordable, functional, comfortable and easy-to-care-for range of canine clothing, available at Big W, Kmart and Petstock stores. The brand is endorsed by the RSPCA and is the only canine lifestyle brand in Australia to carry this endorsement. There is a "Warmie" in the range which is ostensibly like a Bonds suit for dogs - great for keeping seniors with arthritis, young dogs and pups, short-haired breeds and small dogs warm during winter. You can check out the range at: www.doggonegorgeous.com.au I've also attached the latest media release showcasing the winter range - I am their publicity "hound". If you have any queries, just PM me. My beloved cattle x JRT who passed away at Xmas aged 13.5 was not much into dog wear despite me being able to dress her to the nines - however, the past two winters' of her life, she really welcomed wearing one of these Warmies at night(she was an inside dog but felt the cold and loved to bask by the heater). You know I haven't even been able to bring myself to wash that Warmie - still carries her scent and stray strands of fur! ETA: Not sure the file attached - will try again. Was too big - oh, well - check out the website if interested.

Joe, a little bit of humour is just what this thread needs! No offense, Corvus, but I laughed out loud at that visualization,Joe.

That's only because you typed your response between the quotation codes. The quote should go between the quotation codes. Your response/statement etc should go outside the quotation codes. Like this? Thanks, Erny and for everyone for their patience! ETA: Finally! One of my blondest moments and there is no emoticn for that!

Excuse my ignorance but "insert text here" is that your comment or the quote you are wanting to address? Thanks for your response! Sorry I was just tryin' to help you out with the quote thingy. :p I actually use the little speech bubble icon then type in between the tags so I don't have to remember which way it goes etc. I think you need a rich text version to see that though? I actually fitted many prong collars in my dark past *cue scary music* so I have no problem with this thread. Couldn't agree more!! ETA: And now my responses are in "quotes" - back to the drawing board!

You'd think so, Erny, wouldn't you? I typed in {"quote"] - without the " " as instructed) at the beginning of a sentence of yours to quote and then at the end of that same sentence I typed ["/quote"] - without the " " - typed in my response to you and when trying to preview the post was given this notification The number of opening quote tags does not match the number of closing quote tags- I know it's me - I have tried it over and over! How embarrassing! LOL! ETA: Typo in first line - should read ["quote"] not this { symbol. Come on BorderBo - If I can do it, anyone can do it ETA: I've got it! Woo Hoo - to think that something so trivial could give me such pleasure!

Excuse my ignorance but "insert text here" is that your comment or the quote you are wanting to address? Thanks for your response!

You'd think so, Erny, wouldn't you? I typed in {"quote"] - without the " " as instructed) at the beginning of a sentence of yours to quote and then at the end of that same sentence I typed ["/quote"] - without the " " - typed in my response to you and when trying to preview the post was given this notification The number of opening quote tags does not match the number of closing quote tags- I know it's me - I have tried it over and over! How embarrassing! LOL! ETA: Typo in first line - should read ["quote"] not this { symbol.

Not at all, Erny .. I've been trying to sort that out myself! ETA: And it didn't work!

gratefully received - can't beat whippet hugs and nose prods!

Ask a chiro... MRB, If your dog is struggling to focus on you when required perhaps you should look at her motivation and drive to work - as opposed to 'controlling' where her head is at. ETA, this thread has gone way OT. BorderBo - you didn't fail your dog. You did everything within your power to resolve the problems, but the dog simply wasn't suitable for you. You then did what was best by the dog by returning him. I can't see where the failure is in that. Thanks, SecretKei - yes, this has gone way OT but I thank those who have given constructive and supportive contributions to my original and subsequent posts. What you say is correct (I gave it MY best)and my head knows that ... it's just my heart that's having a hard time reconciling the outcome for I loved the dog, as we do.

Thank you, JulesP .... that's really lovely you .....

By me. ;) Let's not get confused between motivators and reinforcement. They might be the same or they might not. Whatever the case, the effect a reward has on behaviour is not dependent on the animal's personality, even if that animal may be acting under a personality-specific internal motivator (say, exploration for example). There is no question in my mind that personality affects dog behaviour, and there is evidence to support it. However, evidence that those personality affects are genetic is pretty thin on the ground, despite studies in other animals that have involved selectively bred personality types. There is plenty of evidence that personality expression (through behaviours) can spontaneously change to suit environmental changes, and is not hugely stable over time. I think everyone assumes there is a genetic component, but AFAIK no one much knows what it is beyond it possibly has something to do with dopamine and/or serotonin receptors. When someone can tell me the method by which 'weak nerve' is entirely genetic, then I'll believe them. Until then, I think it's unfair to declare a dog's behaviour cannot be changed on the grounds that it is a result of the dog's 'weak nerve'. MOST dogs will get defensive if they get frightened, and I have met very few dogs that haven't been frightened at some stage. I know dogs that have learnt to be reactive about something in particular. If it works for one thing, it's not a stretch of the imagination for the dog to start trying it for other anxiety-inducing situations as well. This is not necessarily genetic, and even if it is, we don't know to what extent. I think it's an excellent idea to avoid breeding from lines of dogs that seem perpetually nervous, but I think it's a terrible idea to explain broad swathes of behaviour in a single dog with a declaration that it's genetic and therefore can't be altered. Unless I missed something, I don't think this was said or intimated?

Good post and well articulated / presented. What you say makes perfect sense .... to me.

I thought that training was the most effective way to sort this problem... ie if the training had been good to start with and the handler hadn't skipped steps... they wouldn't be in this situation. Note - that doesn't apply to brain damaged dogs - but a prong collar isn't going to help those to loose lead walking either. So as far as skipping steps are concerned, I think your comments are way off mark here - and being in "this situation" has been incredibly stressful and confidence shattering. Perhaps you could be abit more sensitive when you make thoughtless remarks like this. To BORDERBO: I am so sorry that you had to give up on the dog you loved but think you should comfort yourself in knowing that you gave it your best shot. I also agree wholeheartedly with your reply to the first comment - totally uncalled for. In hindsight we would probably all use different techniques but all we ask is that some people should try walking a mile in our shoes before they judge. I,too, have a high drive/reactive GSD and although an experienced GSD handler, I have never had such a challenge. After doing all the so-called "right/PC" training that is now indoctrinated in to most training clubs, we still looked like a novice handler with an out-of-control dog after 12 months in the club scene. The next 3-4 months I spent in the "wilderness", chastising myself for not being strong enough to control my beloved girl in public with other dogs but had a dog that was brilliant at home. I finally enlisted the help of Steve Courtenay (K9Pro) and the prong collar and I am so thankful I did. After 6 weeks we have improved so much that it is hard to think back to the months we wasted on a flat collar with a non-food/non toy driven dog. Now, instead of looking for escape routes when we see other dogs on our daily walk, I welcome the chance to incorporate the lessons Steve has taught me and Skye and I are becoming the "team" I always knew we could be. Take care BorderBo - I am sure your dog soulmate will be out there. Skye GSD, is not high drive dog causing reactive behaving is over sharpness in the genes of the breeding causing this and nothing you do raising this dogs would make a difference is how the dog is born and only fix is training out the reactivity, is nothing to do with poor handling and bad owner is very challenging trait for the best owner and handler to work with. Unless you have trained and handled a sharp Shepherd Dog before and learned the trait, is easy for somebody to assumption you do it wrong from their experiencing of training dogs with sharpness trait as flat as a tack. Sharpness is useful trait for easy training of the guard dog, but for pet dog my opinion is breeders should avoid this trait with better selection of breeding from more stable temperaments in their lines? Joe Interesting, Jo .... do you think this relates to GSD's only or is it your opinion that this genetic predisposition applies to all breeds?

I think you fail to see the point or my comments, but let's leave it there - yes, let's agree to disagree, on all counts. As for me getting some benefit from your first post by talking to Steve C? Not sure why you're taking credit for that initiative but feel free ..............

Mrs Rusty Bucket I didn't think your comment was a personal attack on me as such, I just thought your comments were presumptuous and insensitive - but most importantly, they were not constructive and of no value to me, the OP. In fact, you weren't even addressing your post to me, the OP, but speaking about me in the third person in a very critical way - I think it was unnecessary and I thought you may be totally ignorant (well, obviously!) of what impact such insensitivity can have on someone who is desperately trying to do the right thing / be the right dog trainer / owner. You took time previously in another post on this thread (and I was appreciative of that) to recommend a Gentle Leader to me for a dog that is a lunger / lurcher and whilst most would agree, including me, that such a tool is the last thing you should use for a reactive dog who lurches / lunches at other dogs and could cause potential damage to the neck / spine of the dog, I understood that you were trying to be constructive if not ill-informed and I didn't feel it necessary to highlight this to you because I knew you were trying to help. Just a thought - think about what say and its potential impact on someone who needs constructive help not judgement (particularly, in the first person). Cheers.

thanks for your kind support - It is appreciated. I did have all the right intentions and put in alot of hard slog, trust me. I have a home business with flexible working hours so it has always enabled me to spend alot of time with my previous dog who passed away at Xmas aged 14 - now she was very high energy dog (cattle x jrt) and quite the alpha bitch but there were never these sorts of issues experienced as with Bo - she was well-socialised from a pup and a very obedient girl who knew her place in the family pack, despite there not being a NILIF program set in place back then! Certainly, there were huge improvements with Bo on so many levels and I hope this serves him well for the future. A man handler is an interesting notion - his previous owner was female too - though my partner (male) had as much trouble with controlling his reactivity onlead and he is not a novice dog owner, having owned and showed weis' for many, many years. Aside from Bo's reactivity, we also discovered upon bringing him home that he had HD (I observed what I thought was some stiffness in his hind legs when we talk him for a short walk on the day we met him but everyone discounted this, including the foster carer who thought he had probably hurt himself tearing around with all those other dogs). A few days home and I thought there was too much laxity in his hips and took him off for an x-ray and it was confirmed he had HP (on a rating of 1 to 10 he scored a 7-8) so we whisked him off to SASH here in Sydney to see an ortho specialist who recommended what is major surgery to correct the problem (TPO) - the vet and specialist were surprised that I picked it up as they could not see much of any clinical signs themselves it was really the xrays that confirmed the diagnosis. As it turns out not many dogs are eligible for this op (age under 12 months, no evidence of arthritis and several other factors)but he was and so we had this scheduled back in April but had to pull the plug because we all concurred that his high energy and excitability would most probably sabotage the 12 week containment and he would be in a worse state - the specialist advised to let nature take its course and deal with the HD at a later stage if it needed dealing with (in all likelihood a hip replacement further down the track). We were up for that commitment to him 100% and so it is a real &^%$# for him that this didn't work out because I wonder how many people will be prepared to adopt a dog with known HD - the foster carer doesn't seem to think this is a problem because he is not showing clinical signs but then she doesn't seem to acknowledge that he is also highly reactive either because he isn't displaying this at her residence due to his drive satisfaction being met. So, aside from the behavioural issues dealt with over the past 3 months there have been health concerns too. You'd think I would feel relieved to be shot of it all but I am not - quite the contrary. I feel devastated, disappointed and a little angry too (with myself). There must be a lesson somewhere here to be learned and I guess it will become clearer to me as the pain subsides. Yes, I do acknowledge that a working dog breed is probably not the right dog for me though my last two dogs were and being a high energy person myself, I had no problems meeting their physical needs. Different dogs all around though and the old brown mare probably ain't what she used to be perhaps too.