bulldogz4eva

the BSL isn't the issue that concerns me.

I have always been anti BSL.

It's the deception employed when ever a pitbull incident occurs that is the concern to me & many others with breeds directly affected by the deceptions.

the example you quote i.ds a bull terrier X, who i.ded the dog?

The owner did? Well, go on.

And it is accepted by you, & others like you, as irrefutable without really knowing if it is true or not.

If it really was a xbully & that was the catalyst for the BSL, why isn't the bull terrier a restricted breed?

Why? Be honest with yourself.

The best thing that could happen for the breeds favoured in the deceptions would be the repeal of the BSL legislation, if honesty is then applied of course. Which is highly doubtful.

But if.....watch the stats for the xstaffy, xridgey, xamstaff, xbluey, xlab & assorted other X's of various pure breeds drop dramatically.

Oh, not to forget the xmastiffs of course.

There would be no reason for this forum, & it would be the end of the deny & discredit ploy employed everytime a silver bullet of truth/fact is fired through the smokescreen of deception.

And I would be really happy for Chrissie Tybrax, the only the breed stalwart here really walking the walk & displaying any class, ethics & honesty.

She is probably the only poster here who actually owns APBTs & has as much to lose as the owners of all the pure breeds so shamefully discredited by the imposters.

Those with nothing to lose really don't have a lot of cred in the debate. Poseurs, one & all.

Don't delude yourself, the BSL will never be repealed as long as those involved display the irresponsiblity that currently blights the breed.

Fat chance of that.IMO

bTW, APBTs are a banned import.....but of course you knew that.

That hasn't stopped the importation though. Deception is a cottage industry as far as this breed is concerned.

BTW,

Any variations to the DD legislation in the U.K is still to have a list of restricted breeds.

Of which the APBT is numero uno.

#1 on the hit parade.

Fact, as usual.

You already know why the bull terrier is not restricted.Its becuase it is an ANKC registered breed so stop asking loaded questions.You are the biggest hypocrite here you employ the same tactics you accuse others of which is the id of breed.Every cross breed must be a purebred pitbull becuase all owners are liars to you.Easy fix there post a picture of every dog after the incident,but they never do,do they?

You expect honesty?You expect people to give up their dogs to an unjust law and when there is none left the government will say ok you have all been very good we will now repeal the law.Dream on Gary.You cant have it both ways.We arent giving them up and we arent going away so deal with it.The people that are actually smart enough to sign up and use a computer arent the problem.The problem is out there in the suburbs and if the powers that be havent cleaned it up yet in the last decade I doubt they ever will.

I have owned pits for 20 years so I am afraid the only pretender here is you and I doubt you even know what one looks like.Keep dreaming and posting in your internet fantasy land and I will keep on with my dogs in the real world.

Sorry Dougie but bsl was dropped on this country overnight for no good reason other than we are a Commonwealth country then year by year it was inched in.

That statement confirms to me my long held suspicions regarding your total lack of knowledge (or honesty) regarding the entire topic.

You need to get out more into the real world of real dogs & stop living out your fantasies on the net.

Reinterate!

People like you are the problem, not the solution.

What I am talking about is the commonwealth import ban which is where it started or is this not bsl to you?I have lived through bsl longer than you have had staffords so stop talking shite.I am not the problem you are.

Chrissie,

I doubt very much if such a case could ever be fought & won by claiming seperation between the AST & the APBT for one very good reason.

At that time the UKC, the APBTs main register, was accepting AKC registered ASTs onto their register as pure bred APBTs.

That's game over.

IMO, the GCCC should get some accolades for withdrawing, with the case all but won, before a final decision & a precedent set declaring ASTs to be APBTs.

Imagine the ramifications for the AST of such a precedent.

Keira,

Firstly, I have no emotion, not dislike nor affection, for the APBT. It is not a breed that holds any attraction for me.

Having said that, you really need to do more research on the BSL before launching on your quest.

Our species, as a whole(not race) does have a lot to answer for, but the BSL is is not one of them.

The BSL is entirely the fault of pitbull owners.

The BSL weasn't dropped on the breed overnight. It was years in the making.

APBT owners were given more than one chance to get their act into gear. They failed, actually I'm not sure if one can fail without one even trying, but they did fail their breed. Badly.

The restrictions were gradual & applied because of almost weekly reports of attacks upon humans, mostly kids. As a result the APBT, while restricted in public, were still allowed to owned, bred, sold, traded, exchanged, given away, just as any other breed.

The attacks continued virtually unabated, until finally a very scared public said enough is enough & demanded protection, the pollies seized on the opportunity for brownie points & effectively banned the breed. I speak of NSW btw.

Besides stringent requirements for housing, the dogs were required to be sterilised. they were not to be bred from (obviously) & they weren't to be sold, traded, given away.

So were are all the pitties coming form now?

Just as they didn't take the tip at the begining, when there was still a chance for them, the owners of the breed are totally disregarding the BSL laws & relying on deception to maintain the breed in a black market.

Who would want the breed? Use your imagination .

Which is where I came in. (And probably TheCoat. but I only speak for myself)

My breed, a registered, recognised pure breed that has build a reputation as one of the most reliable people dogs on the planet is suffering extraordinarily because of the deception.

My breed has has come from nowhere to top of bite stats since the introduction of the BSL while the pitty has gone from the top to the bottom.

Do you see the connection here? Blind Freddie could.

You claim love & affection for a breed you have no real connection to, don't own, haven't owned & I fear for the future of my breed because of a breed it has no connection with.

Maybe you are right after all..

Our species, some of them anyhow, do have a lot to answer for.

Sorry Dougie but bsl was dropped on this country overnight for no good reason other than we are a Commonwealth country then year by year it was inched in.Im not gonna rant over old posts but I can speak gfor my state and thaey could not provide evidence or statistics and never would nor would they answer questions take calls or talk on the subject,so what does that say.

You have little to worry about you beloved 'show' staffords these days resemble a british bulldog or an overgrown frog so there isnt much chance they would be mistaken for an APBT.LMAO

Chivers introduced the expert witness, not the GCCC. What ever, it was accepted as ''expert evidence.

Try the "it's not an APBT it's an unpapered AST'' ploy & see how you get on? Hammered is how.

Talk about head in the stand.

Do you really believe the APBT is ''restricted'' simply because of the way it looks? In many parts the world? including great swathes of it's country of origin? Get real!

Do you consider ''restricted'' applies to the breed or to the keeping of the breed? Both?

Do you have the breed?

If so,

Do you keep it/them as required by the legislation or do you practice civil disobedience as many/most/all owners obviously do?

If you want support, you have to not only do the right thing, you have to be seen to be doing the right thing.

So far, no see.

Trying to shift the blame aint going to cut it.

Stop whinging that the breeds you are pointing at are pointing back.

"You"caused your own problem. Nobody else.

Stand up & be counted if you are so passionate. Step out of the shadows.

You talk the talk, let's see you walk the walk.

You love to gloss over things when your wrong dont you.Just like over the years you have conveniently dodged the hard questions asked of you.You like to give it but you dont like to take it.I walk the walk everyday clown with my dog by my side.

Not recognised by any purebred registry?

Only being recognised by their own membership doesn't count.

Open a registry for ""pure breed" Cavoodles & you will have exactly the same scenario to the establishment of the UKC.

i.e. A club to register dogs that aren't recognised as pure breeds by the countries pure breed registery.

A claytons pure breed registry.

Dogs solely registered by the UKC/ADBA aren't recognised as genuine recognised pure breeds any more than their registery is recognised as a genuine pure breed registry.

Maybe to you they are not recognised as genuine purebreds. But 113 years of purebred registry says differently. If someone opened a Cavoodle registry I would be happy to tell them their dogs are now purebred when they had been breeding and registering them for 113 years, oh and if they changed the darn name to something a little more sensible.

Also you may want to go back to the start of the thread and have a look it was started over 3 years ago, why have you and TheCoat dredged up such an old thread?

The thread was originally created by someone who was and still is helping people fight the Council's here in QLD against their draconian laws and fighting council's illegal seizure and euthanasia of many innocent dogs.

I may be wrong, but it appears the thread was reopened by the original poster (Chivers solicitor?) or an associate there of.

To what end?

One can only assume to continue the blame switching charade.

And winning I might add.

Do you think so? Really?

The litigant in Chivers V GCCC introduced her own expert witness' testimony which, much to everyones shock/horror, stated Am Staffs & APBT's were the same breed, effectively destroying her own case.

IMO, & this is purely conjecture on my part, the council heard the combined groan of every Am Staff owner in the world, not just in Australia or Qld, for a legal precedent about to be laid down.

Realising the pandoras box that was opening, they withdrew.

The case was not won, nor is it really finalised.

The Qld government then enacted legislation declaring ANKC registered Am Staffs are not a restricted breed.

Please note ANKC registered.

Nothing else has changed.

The fat lady hasn't sung just yet.

BSL is still law.

Non ANKC registered Am Staffs are still pitties as far as the BSL is concerned.

BTW, pure breeds & registered recognised pure breeds are miles apart.

One being pretty much a local thing of no real consequence except to those involved, the other internationally acknowledged by every genuine pure breed registry.

cavoodles? pure breeds? Start a pure breed registry. They still wont be recognised as pure breeds outside that registry.

Chauncey said Bennetts Ring was a pure breed, 113 years on & still the AKC doesn't agree with him.

That has to tell you something?

I suggest you take another look at the Chivers vs GCCC case or stop talking about what you don't know. At this stage Tango is home, that in my books is a win maybe not the war but certainly a battle, second it was not Chivers who bought in the expert who claimed APBT and Amstaff were the same, that was a tactic used by the GCCC to try and win the case, they gave no notice and sprung this tactic on the court the day of the hearing. QLD Legislation was ammended not long after, the legislation now states :-

63A Provisions for deciding what is a breed of dog

(1) Each of the following certificates, for a dog, is evidence the

dog is of the breed stated in the certificate—

(a) a pedigree certificate from the Australian National

Kennel Council;

(b) a pedigree certificate from a member body of the

Australian National Kennel Council;

© a pedigree certificate from a national breed council

registered with the Australian National Kennel Council;

(d) a certificate signed by a veterinary surgeon stating, or to

the effect, that the dog is of a particular breed.

(2) However, if a dog is of the breed American Staffordshire

terrier it is not of the breed American pit bull terrier.

(3) Also, the breed American pit bull terrier does not include a

dog of the breed American Staffordshire terrier.

So no the dog does not have to be ANKC registered.

2ndly

63 What is a restricted dog

(1) A restricted dog is a dog of a breed prohibited from

importation into Australia under the Customs Act 1901

(Cwlth).

Note—

See the Customs (Prohibited Imports) Regulations 1956 (Cwlth),

section 3 and schedule 1 (Goods the importation of which is prohibited

absolutely).

(2) Also, a dog is a restricted dog if it is the subject of a restricted

dog declaration.

(3) In this section—

breed, of a dog, does not include a crossbreed of a breed.

This clearly states in part (3) that a breed of dog does not include a crossbreed. Seeing as we don't have an American Pitbull Terrier purebred registry and they are not a recognised breed in Australia (by ANKC or any affiliates) they are technically a crossbreed only and therefore are not prohibited by Qld Legislation. Any one who has their dog seized in QLD should know this ^^^ and fight because according to Australia there is no such breed as the APBT, QLD law states crossbreeds don't come under the prohibited laws so how are unrocognised crossbreeds being seized?

Actually someone accidentally re-opened the thread in August, someone updated the list, as far as I can see not someone who is at all involved with the Chivers case (why would they?). No one is blaming breeds, as it has already been stated the majority of dogs involved in attacks on this list are Xbreeds only. Why is it ok for everyone else to lay blame on APBT but when we point out attacks by other breeds or Xbreeds we are in the wrong? How come you are attacking us for this list and telling us to give up the fight rather than asking WHY there are so many attacks by other breeds and crossbreeds? Pitbull haters are so blinded by their hate that they refuse to see the big picture and to ask the real questions like WHY other breeds are involved in attacks, why are other breeds (or Xbreeds) involved in more attacks in Australia then PBx's? Open your eyes, pull your head out of the sand and start looking at the truth.

Dont worry he is only here to bait and try and incite people and turn arguments around to try to make people look bad in the eyes of others.His idea of sport but he isnt as smart as he thinks he is.

Not recognised by any purebred registry?

Only being recognised by their own membership doesn't count.

Open a registry for ""pure breed" Cavoodles & you will have exactly the same scenario to the establishment of the UKC.

i.e. A club to register dogs that aren't recognised as pure breeds by the countries pure breed registery.

A claytons pure breed registry.

Dogs solely registered by the UKC/ADBA aren't recognised as genuine recognised pure breeds any more than their registery is recognised as a genuine pure breed registry.

Maybe to you they are not recognised as genuine purebreds. But 113 years of purebred registry says differently. If someone opened a Cavoodle registry I would be happy to tell them their dogs are now purebred when they had been breeding and registering them for 113 years, oh and if they changed the darn name to something a little more sensible.

Also you may want to go back to the start of the thread and have a look it was started over 3 years ago, why have you and TheCoat dredged up such an old thread?

The thread was originally created by someone who was and still is helping people fight the Council's here in QLD against their draconian laws and fighting council's illegal seizure and euthanasia of many innocent dogs.

I may be wrong, but it appears the thread was reopened by the original poster (Chivers solicitor?) or an associate there of.

To what end?

One can only assume to continue the blame switching charade.

And winning I might add.

Do you think so? Really?

The litigant in Chivers V GCCC introduced her own expert witness' testimony which, much to everyones shock/horror, stated Am Staffs & APBT's were the same breed, effectively destroying her own case.

IMO, & this is purely conjecture on my part, the council heard the combined groan of every Am Staff owner in the world, not just in Australia or Qld, for a legal precedent about to be laid down.

Realising the pandoras box that was opening, they withdrew.

The case was not won, nor is it really finalised.

The Qld government then enacted legislation declaring ANKC registered Am Staffs are not a restricted breed.

Please note ANKC registered.

Nothing else has changed.

The fat lady hasn't sung just yet.

BSL is still law.

Non ANKC registered Am Staffs are still pitties as far as the BSL is concerned.

BTW, pure breeds & registered recognised pure breeds are miles apart.

One being pretty much a local thing of no real consequence except to those involved, the other internationally acknowledged by every genuine pure breed registry.

cavoodles? pure breeds? Start a pure breed registry. They still wont be recognised as pure breeds outside that registry.

Chauncey said Bennetts Ring was a pure breed, 113 years on & still the AKC doesn't agree with him.

That has to tell you something?

Blah Blah Blah same tired old story Gary.Take the record off its worn a groove.they never wanted AKC recognition so never sought it so they dont care what the AKC thinks only you do.You realy need to get outside that bubble that you live in.

Not recognised by any purebred registry?

Only being recognised by their own membership doesn't count.

Open a registry for ""pure breed" Cavoodles & you will have exactly the same scenario to the establishment of the UKC.

i.e. A club to register dogs that aren't recognised as pure breeds by the countries pure breed registery.

A claytons pure breed registry.

Dogs solely registered by the UKC/ADBA aren't recognised as genuine recognised pure breeds any more than their registery is recognised as a genuine pure breed registry.

Both of those registries are all breed registries not solely APBT registries.There are a lot of other breeds with more checkered pasts that are registered with yours but this ois old ground we have been over it a million times before but you only like to hear the sound of your own voice.

"Id rather die on my feet, than live on my knees"

Viva Zapata.

If you stategy isn't to muddy the waters by including other breeds, what is this thread all about then?

Why list other breeds without any question as to the authenticity of the breed when you deny every report of a so called pitbull ''incident'', even when there is definate photographic identification?

Your are on your feet alright ricey, pointing, from the shadows.

You may find the attachment of some interest.

From a 2008 publication.

The purpose of the htread was to document fatal attacks in this country nothing more nothing less although you want it to be something else.I dont deny every pitbull incident what I claim is what is true that no Purebred American Pitbull Terrier has been responsible for a single fatality in this country.Im sorry if the facts hurt you but I cant change them for your 'convenient truth'.

Gary I am not Ricey I have posted under the same handle for the last 7 years but I sense you know that already.I know you miss him and maybe he will come back for a chat.

Well ricey, TheCoat is on your case & right on the money. He/she knows, as do the rest of us honest doggie folk , a "convenient lie" will follow when an APBT hits the headlines. As they regularity do.

You constanttly trumpet the worth of your breed to all & sundry, yet deny it's existence when it's involved in incidents.

At best you admit to the suspect dog being a ''x breed''.....''the convenient lie''. a pitbull mastiff perhaps.

In the meantime you are deliberately drawing other recognised purebreeds in the mess your arrogance has dropped on the canine population in general the bull breeds in particular.

Muddying the water as much as possible.

I have never been a supporter of the BSL.

But it's here & the reason the BSL doesn't work is because those it applies to just ignore it.

"A convenient lie", when necessary, is easier.

Some just don't have the courage of their convictions. All piss & wind.

Sorry but Im not Ricey,champ.Ricey stopped posting here long ago but I will send him your regards and tell him yo are thinking of him.The dog in the incident was reported as a mastiff x pitbull.Anything crossed with mastiff will be much larger and easily regognisable from a purebred.I know this becuase unlike you I actually have experience with the purebreds and the cross in question whilst yours is based on theory.Maybe just stick to the labradors.

Im sorry that you misconstrue arrogance with experience and knowledge but it doesnt surprise me and remember when you point one finger at someone else there are three pointing back at you.We dont need to lie becuase the truth will always tell the story if it sees the light of day.maybe you should just embrace it and it just might set you free from your obvious prejudice.

As far as courage and conviction I have plenty and I have done my bit for these dogs over a long time and will continue to.that is my conviction becuase I dont lie down and give up because "Id rather die on my feet, than live on my knees" unlike some.

As far as being full of piss and wind.I aint the barbers cat Im the junk yard dog woof woof.

As Al Gore would say this is the 'Inconvenient Truth'

Bad analogy.

Al Gore & his propaganda doco has been so heavily criticised by the scientific boffins for its lack of factual material it has been withdrawn from most school curriculums, world wide.

The fact Al Gore is the principal of the biggest carbon trading firm in the U.S.A didn't do much for its credibility either. So much so it has renamed ''A Convenient Lie''

by its critics.

The reason the American Pitbull Terrier doesn't appear on any recognised pure breed register is because it isn't consider a genuine pure breed. Simple.

Does the name Ayen Choi ring a bell?

Either way champ its still the inconvenient truth.Yes Ayen Chol does ring a bell and may the little angel Rest In Peace.Does the term crossbreed ring a bell for you?the record is still unbroken but keep trying anyway.Good to see you back champ and you didnt disappoint with your first post.Lets see how long it takes you to get banned this time.

Oh and the rationale for the thread is that we're sick and tired of people attributing the APBT to fatalities here, I don't know about you but I don't like lies and rumors being spread when in actual fact IT IS NOT THE TRUTH

And what do you think that will do, free the Pitbull...........how naive are you seriously

The Pitbull was never secured on the table to be thrown off and was only ever a "tolorated" breed why wasn't the APBT ever ANKC recognised can anyone answer that?

My opinion is, if you want to engage in only "tolorated" breeds with no community footing, there is a liklihood that the breed can come undone far more easily than an established recognised breed being the sole reason I wouldn't own one or a cross breed that resembles one. Everyone has a choice and playing with fire has the potential to be burned whether it's right or wrong, that's life.

There is a very simple answer to that.The APBT is not AKC registered nor is it registered with any othe FCI affiliate therefor it does not meet the criteria for ANKC registration from the get go.Pretty simple really isnt it.Yes people have a choice some make the choice with their heart not their head be that right or wrong.Yes you can get burnt when playing with fire and so can innocent parties.Such is the nature of fire it spreads rapidly and doesnt discriminate,sweeping up all in its path even those those that choose not to make a stand and fight it.

I see a massive difference in authorities clamping down on an unrecognised breed than clamping down on breeds that are recognised and active, and personally I have no fear of BSL extending to any breeds on the ANKC register. If the Pitbull was ANKC recognised and then was canned and thown to the wolves so to speak, then and only then would we have reason for concern to the extent of the BSL's power IMHO?. I don't for one second agree with the assumption that unless we fight against BSL other breeds will be next. I think this senario has already been tested with the Amstaff which is not under threat in fact the Victorian law provides that exact exemption. If the Amstaff can be excluded from any Pitbull related matters, other breeds are home and hosed. Personally I think the Pitbull enthusiasts need to be a bit more creative so the breed ticks the right boxes which is not rocket science to work out. "My dog is an Amstaff sir not a Pitbull here are her papers" it's that simple just get on with it and stop complaining, give the box tickers what they want and the problem disappears. ;)

Then you have nothing to fear do you?Havent you just contradicted yourself?You say they are draggin other breeds into the spotlight then you say you dont fear an ANKC breed being targeted,so you have nothing to worry about.You dont have to preach to the converted I know how to keep my dogs safe been doing it for a long time but that is besides the point.Things just dont go away or fix themsleves and they need to understand that becuase they are not going to eradicate them from this country which is there objective.Not to mention if I wish to walk my dog down the street I f***** well will and wont be treated like a criminal becuase of it.

I read regularly posts re BSL and I am continually amazed at some of the positions taken on this subject by fellow DOLers. EVERYBODY with half a brain knows that it is not the breed that is the problem, it is US< period.

Until councils,govt. etc .pull their collective heads from you know where and address the cause of the problem ( US ) and do something constructive about it instead of political responses to this subject a lot of breeds are doomed.

Many breeds are not my choice but I will defend the right to own any breed that I choose.( I do not own apts ) We all need to look past the apt and realise that our rights are gradually being eroded away from us while we all sit around and whinge amongst ourselves

The bottom line is and always should be, you are responsible for your dogs' behaviour, If you control the situation that your dogs get into you minimise your risk....simple.

If you dont' contain your dog securely and any other animals you own you deserve to suffer any legal penalty as a result of your inability to do so.

My only other comment would be that all those people that think BSL is not going to worry them ....think again, that what was said early days' with the prospect of a ban on tail docking, and so it moves on and on and on.

Exactly, so what is the point of this thread, to highlight other breeds who have acted in a lethal manner, highlight that restricted breeds were not involved, I don't get it

I think you miss the point.The point is not to highlght othewr breeds it is soley to highlight the fact that the American Pitbull Terrier has never been resonsible for a fatality in this country.As Al Gore would say this is the 'Inconvenient Truth'.When there whole argument verges on how dangerous the dogs are then provide anecdotal evidence.You cant when the facts simply dont support it so as breed supporters we have every right to show that evidence.

I understand that, but I don't see any value in it other than dragging other breeds into the spotlight. What are they going to say, "geez you Pitbull supporters are right, the Pitbull isn't as bad as we thought so we will add the other breeds you highlighted on the list too" That is my concern? It doesn't seem to me that the Pitbull supporters care about bringing other breeds down in the process as long as they give it a red hot go to free their's, to me is the wrong attitude with the potential to do more harm than good.

How are other breeds being dragged into it?By posting facts.The majority of attacks and fatalaties are caused by crossbreeds as they are the most owned dog in this country.Other purebreeds that are ANKC registered are not going to be in the spotlight.The recent debacle with the amstaff in QLD was heading for a confrontation before that and it had to happen.No I dont beleive they are going to say they are wrong because governments/big brother never admit when they are wrong but I will rub their noses in it every chance I get because I know the cold hard truth.Fact.

Oh and the rationale for the thread is that we're sick and tired of people attributing the APBT to fatalities here, I don't know about you but I don't like lies and rumors being spread when in actual fact IT IS NOT THE TRUTH

And what do you think that will do, free the Pitbull...........how naive are you seriously

The Pitbull was never secured on the table to be thrown off and was only ever a "tolorated" breed why wasn't the APBT ever ANKC recognised can anyone answer that?

My opinion is, if you want to engage in only "tolorated" breeds with no community footing, there is a liklihood that the breed can come undone far more easily than an established recognised breed being the sole reason I wouldn't own one or a cross breed that resembles one. Everyone has a choice and playing with fire has the potential to be burned whether it's right or wrong, that's life.

There is a very simple answer to that.The APBT is not AKC registered nor is it registered with any othe FCI affiliate therefor it does not meet the criteria for ANKC registration from the get go.Pretty simple really isnt it.Yes people have a choice some make the choice with their heart not their head be that right or wrong.Yes you can get burnt when playing with fire and so can innocent parties.Such is the nature of fire it spreads rapidly and doesnt discriminate,sweeping up all in its path even those those that choose not to make a stand and fight it.

I read regularly posts re BSL and I am continually amazed at some of the positions taken on this subject by fellow DOLers. EVERYBODY with half a brain knows that it is not the breed that is the problem, it is US< period.

Until councils,govt. etc .pull their collective heads from you know where and address the cause of the problem ( US ) and do something constructive about it instead of political responses to this subject a lot of breeds are doomed.

Many breeds are not my choice but I will defend the right to own any breed that I choose.( I do not own apts ) We all need to look past the apt and realise that our rights are gradually being eroded away from us while we all sit around and whinge amongst ourselves

The bottom line is and always should be, you are responsible for your dogs' behaviour, If you control the situation that your dogs get into you minimise your risk....simple.

If you dont' contain your dog securely and any other animals you own you deserve to suffer any legal penalty as a result of your inability to do so.

My only other comment would be that all those people that think BSL is not going to worry them ....think again, that what was said early days' with the prospect of a ban on tail docking, and so it moves on and on and on.

Exactly, so what is the point of this thread, to highlight other breeds who have acted in a lethal manner, highlight that restricted breeds were not involved, I don't get it

I think you miss the point.The point is not to highlght other breeds it is soley to highlight the fact that the American Pitbull Terrier has never been responsible for a fatality in this country.As Al Gore would say this is the 'Inconvenient Truth'.When there whole argument verges on how dangerous the dogs are then they should provide anecdotal evidence to support and justify the legislation.But they cant when the facts simply dont support it, so as breed supporters we have every right to show that evidence and blow holes in their argument.

Try jetpets.I freighted a 37 kg dog from Adelaide to Perth Last year for $450 with them.Cheapest quote I had.

Settle down people it doesnt even look like a koala.I bet they didnt know what it was so they thought they would call it a koala.Do you know how hard it would be to smuggle one there and how much it would cost.Tens of thousands of dollars to end up in a restaraunt.I dot think so.What would a koala weigh?10 kilos maybe,so your telling me for the poultry some of a few hundred thy would gut it and eat it.For christ sake use your heads.Honestly some of you believe everything you read.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8367053/miracle-dog-survives-gas-chamber

A beagle put in a gas chamber at an animal pound in the US somehow survived the ordeal with its tail wagging.

PHOTOS: Beagle beats gas chamber death

The five-year-old dog, named Daniel, was sent to his death along with 18 other dogs at the animal shelter in Florence, Alabama, on October 3, ABC News reports.

But when animal control officers opened the gas chamber they found Daniel waiting for them at the door, while the other dogs lay dead around it.

Karen and Michael Rudolph, who run a rescue home for Schnauzers in Tennessee, took Daniel in temporarily after hearing about his miracle survival.

Mrs Rudolph said vets were amazed that the gas chamber had not even made Daniel sick after she took him in for a check-up.

"It was almost as though angels pulled him out of there and he didn't even breathe the gas," she said.

The dog is currently living with a volunteer from another charity group, Eleventh Hour Rescue, which is trying to find a permanent home for him.

But Eleventh Hour Rescue president Linda Schiller is positive it will find a home, with more than 200 people emailing a local newspaper which first reported on the bizarre story to say they were keen to adopt the beagle.

http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dogbites/the-problems-with-dog-bite-studies/

This suposedly independant website is dealt with here http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/222305-academic-articles-re-b-s-l/page__view__findpost__p__5537458

I bet your a groupie of dogbites.org arent you? Another propaganda website from the pitbull haters.Now tellus I bet that a pitbull type dog chased you when you were on your bike and made you wet your pants.

You keep harping on about Darla Napora... yes she was a pitbull advocate, but nowhere do any articles relating to her death explain why the attack took place...

Yes I do becuse most Pitbull Advocates want to pretend like t didn't happen.

You ,however ,are looking for a reason to blame the Victim for the fatal attack. Youkeep hrping on about "why the attack took place..." Why does it matter? Does anything that Darla may or may not have done justify a fatal attack? Should society be subject to dogs that may kill you depending on your behavior?

Same as all the other attacks by other breeds.. no-one has learnt and they wont with BSL, that is a fact. BSL gets rid of one breed then the next will be in the headlines, and Joe Blogs will still be none the wiser as far as responsible ownership is concerned.

Is knowing the answer to this question worth a life? 2? How many?

The Pitbull advocates often promote the fallacy of idiots moving from one breed to the next This is a lie. Not true and is not borne out by municipalities that have adopted BSL

which include these US states Alabama, Arkansas ,California, Colorado. Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky

Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota

Oklahoma, Ohio, Oregon Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia,

Wisconsin, District of Columbia

Many foreign countries have enacted breed-specific laws to protect citizens from dangerous dogs and to stop the importation of fighting dogs (pit bulls). Countries include Argentina, Bavaria, Bermuda, Denmark, Ecuador, France, Guyana, Israel, Italy, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Puerto Rico, Romania, Singapore, Spain, St. Kitts and Nevis, Turkey, the UAE, United Kingdom, Venezuela and parts of Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Germany, Ireland, Malaysia, China and Japan.

Didn't you listen to the Radio interview with Assistant City Attorney Don Bauermeister, there is a LOT of information about how BSL has worked in Council Bluffs, Iowa?

I'd like to know what your stance is on Amstaffs, staffies, bull terriers, mastiifs, (i could go on) is? should they be banned too?

I'm fairly happy with the legislation the way it is written although it doesn't go far enough AFAIK. Pit Bull, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldogs, and Yorkies, Whatever you want to call them, are all the same thing.

I see you know how to use google to find countries you wouldnt otherwise know how to spell. Yorkies?They are very similar to pitbulls arent they.Savage little things.

Someone should point out to clubsprint that of the 33 dog attack fatalities since 1979 in Australia,2 were attributed to pitbull or pitbull crosses. Someone should also ask clubsprint what he plans to do about the other 31 deaths

Two deaths is two deaths that didn't need to happen.

Someone should ask mymatejack is 2 deaths OK by you?

Someone should ask mymatejack is it OK that two people die (probably children) so that you can have a Pitbull?

Incidently, taken from the article you refer to here, the killers have been a Siberian husky, four bull mastiffs, a rottweiler, and crossbreeds of boxer, greyhound, pit bull and mastiffs.I'd be concerned if I owned a mastif.

2 out of 32 equals approx 6%.

Someone should ask mymatejack does the number of Pitbulls represented as a percentage of the total dog population in Australia come anywhere near that?

I'll answer for you NO.

Pitbulls make up less than 2% of the dog population.

That would mean that the breed is over represented in deaths caused by attacks.

Also from the article you referred to In Canberra, however, RSPCA scientific officer Jade Norris says there is "some evidence that certain dog breeds have a greater genetic predisposition towards aggressive behaviour."

"They might also have a lower trigger point for aggression and due to their physical size and strength they may have a greater capacity to inflict serious injury compared to other breeds."

Ideal family dogs huh?

Linda Watsons research only talks about deaths, it doesn't talk about maulings and bites.

The evidence about the viciousness of these dogs and the danger they pose to society is overwhelming. The so called BSL in Victoria removes this danger from society. Someone should ask mymatejack is that a bad thing?

The ther 31 deaths are not my resposibility. Do you have a sugestion?

Did you cut and paste that one form the onther forum you were banned from.Lol.

Over the past couple of years, there has been some serious dog attacks involving Pitbull type dogs to the recent death of the poor little Melbourne girl which sparked community outcry to clamp down and potentially rid the community of these type of dogs?. We know that probably all of these serious attacks although reported in media hype as Pitbull culprits, were not genuine APBT's but cross breeds of various Bull/Mastiff styles etc of Pitbull type similarities appearance wise.

Although people get bitten by dogs on a regular basis from all breeds, types and sizes, a trend appeared to develop where the seriously savage attacks, maulings with severe injury and a death were caused primarily by these cross breed dogs of Pitbull style and similarity clearly more of these type of dogs involved in attacks than anything else.

These attacks for the most part were unprovoked active and predatory type aggression where they had chased people down, gone after and attacked other dogs where people were bitten trying to protect their own dog to the horrifying situation where the the dog chased some neighours kids into their home and killed the little girl in the lounge room.

People in community outcry protested that getting rid of these types of dogs will make the community a safer place and reduce the incidence of dog attacks and severe injury and quite frankly I agree on the basis if these dogs had fallen victim to a BSL and no longer existed, the specific incidents wouldn't have happened?

Ultimately if there were no dogs, dog attacks wouldn't occur at all and with that said, a BSL in the extreme would work. Some say that any form of BSL doesn't reduce attack rates, well we know a total BSL of no dogs will reduce attacks competely, so surely in that case a blend of BSL eliminating the types of dogs prone to active and predatory type aggression would have to reduce attack rates over no BSL at all, yes or no?

Zara, be prepared for all sorts of abuse if you come down on the side of BSL.

Pitbull advocates will accuse you of all sorts of things while they try really hard to quote you all sorts of figures to try and prove their case. They will make all sorts of rubbish claims whilst using other Pitbull Advocates to back up their myths. They encourage the all sorts of myths, falsifications and hysteria about BSL to scare owners of other breeds to back them up. They say "IT's Pitbull's now and once they're gone they'll pick on Roti's or Dobes or GSDs or etc." Of course this is unfounded. They'll accuse you of lying, or trolling and wont accept that you can be a dog lover and want to still want to eradicate these unpredictable liabilities.

The thing I find really interesting is that the Pitbull advocates completely ignore the death of Darla Napora,

they just stick their head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen.

She was pregnant and killed (that's two lives)by her own dog in her own house.

She was a member of Bay Area Dog Lovers Responsible About Pit Bulls [bAD RAP]

Her husband has "forgiven" the dog and will bury it's ashes with her.

Does this guy have a borderline personality disorder?

Does anyone else find this sick?

How do the Pitbull advocates explain this?

They had ths dog sinse it was a pup so bad treatment can be ruled out.

Is this just an inconenient truth to be ignored?

How much more proof is needed?

Apparently, Gunner the two year old male did the attacking and there was no evidence that the female dog, Tazi, took part in the attack.

I'm told this heroic breed frequently protects their master in such incidents.

What happened to Tazi, did she forget her role?

Let's hear from her husband.

Greg Napora says that he forgives Gunner for killing his wife and unborn child because it was “just a freak accident…They (their two pit bulls) are the most loving animals I have ever had in my life. Whatever happened right now was not the breed’s fault."

Are these the words of a deluded idiot or what?. Has this guy got any brains at all?

He's just lost his wife and unborn child and all he can talk about is the "love" of his dogs?

Loving like that is hard to come by.

What about the love of your wife? You aren't never going to get that back.

What abut the love to come from your son/daughter?

My dog loves me like a serial killer.

Yep, I'm convinced, great family dogs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2027286/Darla-Napora-Pregnant-woman-dies-mauled-pet-dog-living-room.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/darla-napora-pit-bull-death-details_n_927770.html

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/husband-forgives-pit-bull-killing-pregnant-wife-darla-napora

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/peninsula/2011/08/sole-pit-bull-responsible-killing-pregnant-woman-experts-say

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/08/pit-bull-mauling-death-pregnant-woman-comes-shock-pacifica

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/08/darla_napora_pregnant_pit_bull.php

Be prepared for all this Zara. These are the sort of people who will chose the life of a killer dog over their wife.

These are the people that will come after you so make sure that's what you want.

What the F*** has a dog attack in the US got to do with Australia? When people like you have to troll for fatalaties from another country to further your agenda it pretty welll sums it up.I got one stat for you champ.No "purebred" American pitbull Terrier has been responsible for a single fatality in this country in nearly 30 years.How do you like that one?I never get sick of saying it.

You've all missed the point of what do the government/councils plan to do about the dogs that BSL has made their owners hide/lie about their parentage?

It'll only end up making the dogs more valuable to the meat heads who bought them to appear tough, and as there's nothing to regulate anything that's already illegal, I fully expect the breed to become as dangerous as the govt./councils say they already are, then what do we do? We'll have a race of unsocialised and very unstable, very aggressive dogs, and WHO will have created the mess?

You are years too late. That happened when BSL started.

It certainly did.Especially in Victoria

We know that probably all of these serious attacks although reported in media hype as Pitbull culprits, were not genuine APBT's but cross breeds of various Bull/Mastiff styles etc of Pitbull type similarities appearance wise.

Ultimately if there were no dogs, dog attacks wouldn't occur at all and with that said, a BSL in the extreme would work. Some say that any form of BSL doesn't reduce attack rates, well we know a total BSL of no dogs will reduce attacks competely, so surely in that case a blend of BSL eliminating the types of dogs prone to active and predatory type aggression would have to reduce attack rates over no BSL at all, yes or no?

So in one breath you say that the majority of attacks are most likely not pitbulls but were mongrel crosses of completely different breed, yet in the next you suggest that BSL will work? So which breeds do we need to rid society of in order to stop dog attacks - especially given the statistics from a researcher at the monash uni which says that of 33 fatal dog attacks since 1979, ONLY 2 were pitbull or pitbull crosses?

Isn't it time to make laws to make people train, socialise and contain their dogs?

Spot on mate.Socialisation,training and containment has been my matra for many a year.If only the powers that be were a little smarter but they will continually choose the most cost effective and genrally least effective overall.Rather than that which acheives actual outcomes becuase they cost money and thats something they dont want to know about.

What a heartless c__t.

I have read some rubbish from that paper over the years but this crap takes the cake.What a load of shite.I live in WA and if this was so I would give it some creedence but I can categorically tell you this is uninformed dribble at its best.Who is your source Carly?An anonymous tipster bwahhaaa.Do some research.It isnt hard to chase up the people who imported the dogs and check microchip numbers and see if they are ANKC registered and have been shown.Yes more staffs have been brought in becuase they are popular dogs.Also becuase dogs come in here means nothing you have to check avalaibility of space and as there are only 3 quarantine centres maybe they had to come through here becuase of lack of space at the time.Go back and do some study instead of printing rubbish like this.The Bandidos do not even have a presence in this State very very minimal anyway.