bulldogz4eva

Well I guess its horses for courses.lol.I have fed it before and I would feed it again but whilst I can get beef at the same price i will feed my dogs beef.

People just need to get over the fact that horses are pets and companions.My father was a horse trainer and I like horses but I have no problem feeding it to my dogs.

We have camel here in WA but I have been warned that there is something that dogs can catch from camel meat that makes them ill which is why I stayed away from it too, I used roo and sweet potato for my elimination diet, my boy is back on regular meats though from tomorrow.

I dont know what it is they can catch but if the animals are healthy the risk is nil.I have fed camel to mine plenty of times and it is very good meat and they like it.

would you feed dog meat same thing in my eyes

Why is it the same.You wouldnt feed dog to a dog.In Europe they have eaten horse for a long time so its not a big deal.Becuase this country was pioneered by man on horse we have a different view.Meat is meat when your hungry enough.

Many horses end up at the Zoo (the zoo comes out and puts them down on your property) to feed to the big cats, these are normally loved pets that are at the end of our lives, but again it is a risk to the cats if they have been getting medicated before being put down

Thats right and the person who has the contract in WA to supply the zoo lost it becuase some of the animals at the zoo died after eating horse that was given the green dream.

The American Kennel Club® (AKC®) is pleased to welcome the Cane Corso, Icelandic Sheepdog and Leonberger as the 165th, 166th, and 167th AKC recognized breeds. The Icelandic Sheepdog will join the Herding Group while both the Cane Corso and Leonberger will join the Working Group. The new breeds became eligible for AKC registration on June 1, 2010 and are eligible for competition in their respective groups at conformation shows held on and after June 30, 2010.

"These three diverse breeds all share rich and unique histories and a dedicated group of fanciers in the United States," said AKC Spokesperson, Lisa Peterson. "We are delighted to grant them full AKC recognition and watch as each breed continues to thrive and grow."

Good to see the bandog got in but I wonder if it will be their downfall.

The point I am making Robbi is that many people don't understand where a breeds potential danger is at when part of a community and not everyone will raise these types of dogs to ensure public saftey. It's an illusion to believe that the Pitbull has no more propensity to aggression than any other breed because they do have a far greater ability than most breeds to become dangerous in the wrong hands as they are wired genetically different in their fighting triggers to cause higher levels of injury and destruction.

Dogs attacking under the stress of defence drive fight to eliminate their stress and will retreat once the stress is reduced. Dog's attacking under fighting drive which occurs with the Pitbull and other BSL listed breeds, fight because they enjoy the fighting challenge which is a genetic trait. Guardian breeds like the GSD, Rottweiler, Belgian Shephered, Doberman etc, takes the right dog with intense training to extract half the fighting drive that comes naturally with the BSL breeds is where the issue lays in relation to why some breeds are considered of a more dangerous potential than others.

There are more valid reasons for why some breeds feature under BSL listings than a government's desire to ruin the opportunity of owning your preferred breed and killing peoples pets is what I am referring to.

Cheers

Nev

Nev if all pitbulls were of the old school fighting lines then yep i'd agree, but it just isn't the case. I don't think that there is enough of these types of pits about.

To think that a politician has sat down and thought of the things you've just mentioned is most unlikely, If you look at how the breed has changed over the last 20 years it's massive, all the fighting fairytayles are fading away and good people are owning these dogs.

For the idiots that have them, the risk to the public is no greater should they own any other breed as they're just as likely to treat any other animal the same, as mentioned by someone else there are plenty of other breeds more capable of hurting someone than a pitbull.

I just think we should get away from the extremes of what people perceive a pitbull is capable of because it's not the norm.

Those are valid points Geo.Unless people are game breeding dogs for those traits they wont get them and as dog fighting in this country is miniscule in comparison to other places I agree with you.Most are just family pets but it is their history and the irresponsible that keep dragging them back down.

I live in hope that one day the governemnt will wake up to itself but i think it is more dreaming than anything.The next time a child dies(I shudder to think about it) and it is another breed,instead of getting tough on owners where the responsibility lies they will just add another breed to the list as its easier than having to actually think.

The point I am making Robbi is that many people don't understand where a breeds potential danger is at when part of a community and not everyone will raise these types of dogs to ensure public saftey. It's an illusion to believe that the Pitbull has no more propensity to aggression than any other breed because they do have a far greater ability than most breeds to become dangerous in the wrong hands as they are wired genetically different in their fighting triggers to cause higher levels of injury and destruction.

Dogs attacking under the stress of defence drive fight to eliminate their stress and will retreat once the stress is reduced. Dog's attacking under fighting drive which occurs with the Pitbull and other BSL listed breeds, fight because they enjoy the fighting challenge which is a genetic trait. Guardian breeds like the GSD, Rottweiler, Belgian Shephered, Doberman etc, takes the right dog with intense training to extract half the fighting drive that comes naturally with the BSL breeds is where the issue lays in relation to why some breeds are considered of a more dangerous potential than others.

There are more valid reasons for why some breeds feature under BSL listings than a government's desire to ruin the opportunity of owning your preferred breed and killing peoples pets is what I am referring to.

Cheers

Nev

I agree with you to an extent that some are under the illusion about risks but danger to what is the question you need to ask?Pitbulls in this country are more prone to animal and dog agression than human aggression.The facts are the facts.I am not saying there arent individuals that will be dangerous to humans but that is the same for every breed.On the whole there are as many pitbulls if not more today than there was when bsl was first introduced.Why is there no more attacks?Why is there no fatalities?Understand the dogs and you will know the answer.That arent the monster they are made out to be.It just isnt so.We are lucky in the fact that they were banned from importation so long ago and other lines of 'pitbulls' werent imported here.

As far as dogs attacking under defence drive and and retreating after the stress is reduced I will hazard a guess you havent had much to do with defence based guardian breeds.I wont go into my take on defensive drive and fight drive but to me they are one in the same or caused by the same stimulus in varying degrees dependent on the individual.The more defensive mastiff based dogs wont retreat.There mindset is to drive away the threat using as much force as needed nothing to do with the reduction of stress.When you say other bsl listed breeds you need to understand that of the 5 listed only 3 have a fighting background.the other 2 whilst they may have been fought at some stage are not and have never been fighting dogs and were not bred under a game bred environment.

I do agree with what you ay about guardian breeds and extracting fight drive and this is why some lines of malinois, dutch shepherd and others have had pitbull added and this is fact.It is because of miltary and other trainers seeing the potential and upping the anti in their own dogs.

We could mention many other breeds that are already here that pose the same if not more risk but it serves no purpose and this is a public forum that big brother reads.In essence there is no easy fix for BSL.Emotion always gets involved especially when it involves families loved pet but there are reasons for it and the ireesponsible are too blame.Unfortuantely until the government sees the light and places the onus on the dog onwer regardless of breed it will never change and more dogs will be added to the list.

Very informative posts Bulldogz4eva, and is nice of you to share your Pitbull experience I have worked with several Pitbulls in protection although the bulk of my experience is with GSD's training and handling police K9 patrol dogs and some sporting work in Schutzhund. Defence drive and fighting drive as I see it are two different things. Defence drive is the physical reaction triggered from civil aggression which has a nerve component where the dog fights under the stress of self preservation or the need to protect. Fighting drive is an extension of prey drive where the dog enjoys the fight free of duress. Defence driven aggression is the common fighting factor in most guardian breeds. Pure fighting drive as I have seen common to the Pitbull occurs to a lesser extent in the guardian breeds although both drive traits have a similar appearance.

Cheers

Nev

Yes.I have heard of defensive drive and fight drive characterised as such.Like active and reactive aggression but I still see it slightly different.I dont see it as prey based although I understand the philosophy of it being free of duress becuase I do beleive some dogs enjoy the 'fight'.Wether that be because of the production of adrenalin or release of endorphins being pleasurable or not.However what stimulates prey drive?A pitbull doesnt see a horse, camel, bull as prey but he will still fight one and if he gets a stomping he will run away most times anyway.

Reactive aggression or defence/self preservation as they put it has fight or flight but what about the rarer mastiff breeds that have been heavily bred on defense as guards.Dogs that have very little flight or avoidance and will engage a threat and fight it to the end.That to me is the link between defense and fight.Most people think pitbull they think terrier and high prey drive but when you have a dog that is balance in each only in huge doses it is harder to tell when it switches and it will fight in either.What you have to understand about the pitbull is it has been genetically engineered for want of a better term by man to be the way it is.They have manipulated the breed to have no fear.When you take away the fear there is no flight there is only fight and thats why people cant understand it being defense based.When you breed off of only the strongest individuals you create stronger nerved dogs and like they say in the movies "The man that has no fear is a dangerous man".To his enemy anyway.To me the social dominance that manifests as dog aggression lies in defense.Wether it be triggered over resources,territory,owner etc.Their threat perception is different becuase they are wired that way and that is why most people do not understand them and what man doesnt understand he must destroy.

I think dogs like this within the breed are hard to find these days.I have had one and wish I still did but the majority of them just want to sit on the lounge and eat chocolate cake and lick kids faces because thats another thing they are good at.Their biggest downfall besides wanker owners is their undying loyalty and eagerness to please .They are one of the most trainable dogs around and lend themselves very well to a myriad of tasks becuase of their drive.Their trainability and will to please is easily exploitable and plyable and in the wrong hands that will always be their downfall.When I did breed them when it was legal and people would call me asking about a guard dog I would tell them to go and buy a rottweiller or a GSD as they are not guard dogs becuase I know all too well what can happen.I urge most people not to train them in civil work mainly becuase if they dont have the knowledge of the breed and arent able to pick whats happening with the dog it can be a mistake.Right dog for the right job.

The point I am making Robbi is that many people don't understand where a breeds potential danger is at when part of a community and not everyone will raise these types of dogs to ensure public saftey. It's an illusion to believe that the Pitbull has no more propensity to aggression than any other breed because they do have a far greater ability than most breeds to become dangerous in the wrong hands as they are wired genetically different in their fighting triggers to cause higher levels of injury and destruction.

Dogs attacking under the stress of defence drive fight to eliminate their stress and will retreat once the stress is reduced. Dog's attacking under fighting drive which occurs with the Pitbull and other BSL listed breeds, fight because they enjoy the fighting challenge which is a genetic trait. Guardian breeds like the GSD, Rottweiler, Belgian Shephered, Doberman etc, takes the right dog with intense training to extract half the fighting drive that comes naturally with the BSL breeds is where the issue lays in relation to why some breeds are considered of a more dangerous potential than others.

There are more valid reasons for why some breeds feature under BSL listings than a government's desire to ruin the opportunity of owning your preferred breed and killing peoples pets is what I am referring to.

Cheers

Nev

I agree with you to an extent that some are under the illusion about risks but danger to what is the question you need to ask?Pitbulls in this country are more prone to animal and dog agression than human aggression.The facts are the facts.I am not saying there arent individuals that will be dangerous to humans but that is the same for every breed.On the whole there are as many pitbulls if not more today than there was when bsl was first introduced.Why is there no more attacks?Why is there no fatalities?Understand the dogs and you will know the answer.That arent the monster they are made out to be.It just isnt so.We are lucky in the fact that they were banned from importation so long ago and other lines of 'pitbulls' werent imported here.

As far as dogs attacking under defence drive and and retreating after the stress is reduced I will hazard a guess you havent had much to do with defence based guardian breeds.I wont go into my take on defensive drive and fight drive but to me they are one in the same or caused by the same stimulus in varying degrees dependent on the individual.The more defensive mastiff based dogs wont retreat.There mindset is to drive away the threat using as much force as needed nothing to do with the reduction of stress.When you say other bsl listed breeds you need to understand that of the 5 listed only 3 have a fighting background.the other 2 whilst they may have been fought at some stage are not and have never been fighting dogs and were not bred under a game bred environment.

I do agree with what you ay about guardian breeds and extracting fight drive and this is why some lines of malinois, dutch shepherd and others have had pitbull added and this is fact.It is because of miltary and other trainers seeing the potential and upping the anti in their own dogs.

We could mention many other breeds that are already here that pose the same if not more risk but it serves no purpose and this is a public forum that big brother reads.In essence there is no easy fix for BSL.Emotion always gets involved especially when it involves families loved pet but there are reasons for it and the ireesponsible are too blame.Unfortuantely until the government sees the light and places the onus on the dog onwer regardless of breed it will never change and more dogs will be added to the list.

Unless you have actually experienced the fighting potential of a good Pitbull by training them to such a level to extract their ability, people raising and keeping a Pitbull as a family pet and promoting the breed on those qualities seen really need to see the other side of the breed then perhaps they would understand why the breed is subject to BSL.

The Pitbull is an amazing breed and is truly the toughest, hardest of K9 fighting machines with the highest pain threshhold I have ever seen. Raised and trained as a family pet by responsible owners, the breed is as safe and reliable as any other breed, but train them in suspicion and civil agitation and teach them to bite properly, they make GSD's and Rottweilers look like pussy cats in comparison along with the fact that in full fighting drive from a handler perpsective, they are virtually uncontrollable.

I agree that the fools who try to use the Pitbull as a personal protection dog are largely responsible for bringing the breed under the spotlight, but having said that, a dog with the genetic potential to be trained in aggression to outstrip the guardian breeds in sheer power, fighting drive and stamina without the clear headedness to be handler controllable, there is little option in regard to community safety other than to seriously look at dog breeds that posess this potential.

Cheers

Nev.

I have raised and trained them for a long time until now but those days are coming to an end.When you say train to extract that potential my understanding is you mean in bitework?I have and I understand full well what you mean but I tend to disagree with some of your comments.

Yes.They are the hardest,toughest canine with the highest pain thresholds around but not every individual within the breed is going to be just that.Yes,raised and trained as a family pet they make great family dogs but you arent talking about the same thing.The dog that will excel at protection and has what trainers would call high 'fight drive' is not the dog that is suitable for a pet home and this would become quite clear very early in the dogs life.Just the same as a GSD or Rott or fill in the blanks from working lines.

Your mention of training them in suspicion and civil agitation is relevant but not 100% factual.There are many pitbulls that are natural guard dogs and already have a level of natural suspicion and dominant individuals dont need to be taught how to bite.They will bite with a full mouth without any training.You see I have owned many and I am not one of these people that think the pitbull cant or shouldnt be trained in personal protection.Yes there are risks involved as with the training of any dog.Its all about the individual dog being suitable for the work and some arent.The dog that cant be turned off or controlled by a good handler is not the dog to train.There are many so called dog men that believe it is wrong to train them in PP but mostly that is because they never have and dont have an understanding of it or are just regurgitating what they have heard from someone else.

I dont beleive that people attempting to use them as pp dogs are solely responsible for bringing the dog under the spotlight although this may be the case in the US and the publics perception here.On the whole they dont make the best guard dogs and most game bred dogs are people fiendly and not interested in biting anyone.Also the difference in a sport type dog and a real protection dog are differnt.My last bitch I could put her on a sleeve and she looked good very high prey drive but little defense in regard to people although very socially dominant with other dogs.The problem is there is always the 10%.The extremely dominant individuals within an already dominant breed.Then the risk matrix increases ten fold becuase of the potential but I still disagree with your comments about controllability.Like I said its all about the individual and you would have to have seen enough of them over a long period of time to make that call.The pitbull is a breed within a breed becuase of its diverse genetic background.This is also a reason why it will never be bred out of existence in this country because that same genetic diversity lends itself to inbreeding without problems for more successive generations than nearly any other breed becuase of heavy culling of weak individuals .I know this from experience.

The breeds victim to BSL what I believe is the potential danger that can be caused in the wrong hands, more so than what they have actually done. I would be interested in the views of anyone who has trained Pitbulls in protection work and civil agitation which does provide a clearer understanding why these breeds have been targeted with BSL.

Cheers

Nev

That is part of it,the potential or perceived risk to public safety.Mostly it is driven by the media as the pitbull is a headline grabber.If a labrador bites someone it doesnt gain as much attention and doesnt whip up a frenzy like the word pitbull does.Mention the word pitbull and attack in the same sentence and the average member of the public will be grabbing there pitchfork and a torch and heading for a lynching.Any attack that mentions pitbull in the US will be aired here as if to confirm and bolster their story.The media feed the government machine,they go hand in hand.Ever notice why when bans were mentioned there is always a spate of attacks shortly after reported in the media.

I am not downplaying any potential and I actually am in favor of restrictions but not outright bans.The problem is people in government dont want headlines they want them to go away and the easiest way is to ban something out of existence so it disappears from sight.They wont investigate the facts or find out the truth they just want mum and dads vote at the polling booth and if its an issue for know nothing mum and dad and that may affect the way they vote then they will do something about it.Politicians are not different than the rest of the mindless massess.They believe what they see on the 6 oclock news.What they dont understand is the vast difference between ANIMAL AGRESSION as opposed to HUMAN AGGRESSION.Big difference.

Definatly agree about the bull fighting, and the bull baiting events using dogs they hold. Disgusting stuff, I dont give a crap if its a long standing tradition, it's the 21'st century! How can people like this stuff ffs?

Bull bating was outlawed in Spain long ago just like everywhere else.The pic you posted isnt of bull bating it is of 2 Alano's bull catching.Doing what they were bred to do, being the original bulldog.

Interesting comment from the Danish Kennel Club. They say they were on the committee of 9 which had to agree if this banning of breeds should go into law. They report that only 3 members....all from various Gov agencies...voted yes. The remaining 6 (including the DKC) said no...and argued that the exististing laws which refer to all dogs should be tightened up (sound familiar?).

So the minority won out.

The parliamentary vote went through on Friday it was 54 for and only 4 against.Pretty sad.

Today the Danish Government will vote for or against the law proposal regarding BSL of 13 breeds.

If they get enough votes it will mean that it will be forbidden to own or breed 13 different breeds or mixes of these breeds in Denmark.

The law proposal will run from 1. of July 2010.

There will be a transfer period for the people who own these breeds, they will be able to keep their dogs but not sell them or have anyone else looking after them. The dogs must at all time be held in line and muzzle.

Professional breeders of the breeds on the list, will be able to continue their breeding program until June 30. 2015 but they will not be able to sell their puppies inside Denmark. All import will be forbidden of the 13 breeds.

The law will also state that from the age of 6 months the puppies of theese breeds must carry line and muzzle in public places.

Here is the 13 breeds on the BSL list:

Pitbull terrier

Tosa Inu

Kangal

Fila Brasileiro

Tornjak

Boerboel

American staffordshire terrier

Dogo argentino

American bulldog

Central asian ovtcharka

kaukasisk ovtcharka

Sarplaninac

South Russian ovtcharka

Furthermore the Government is talking about making an observations list containing more breeds.

Agree - I wish there will come a day when you can only purchase a puppy/dog from a registered breeder or through shelters/rescue organisations. I would love to see an end to the BYB, as I'm sure most of you all would too. These breeds I believe are fine in the right homes with the right owners, but what we will see are these dogs being bred by BYBs and then god knows what will happen to them. Once it is known among certain people that the "new best breed to get" is a boerbel, ovchartka etc then no doubt we will see tragic accidents happening in the community - the bybs will be out in force selling the "new dog of the moment" with no thought or knowledge about these breeds. I hope it won't happen, but I believe it will. Powerful breeds like these in irresponsible hands I'm sure all would agree is a disaster waiting to happen.

They are no more of a disaster waiting to happen than a Neoplitan Mastiff,rottweiler,malinois or fill in the blank in the wrong hands.NEWSFLASH ANKC registration doesnt make a dog less harmful.Selling strong tmperament dogs to people who cant handle them is the problem regardless of the breed.Breed disposition will always come into play but individual dogs and individual owners make headlines dont worry about the breed of dog.I could train a cattle dog to pull you into little pieces if thats what I wanted it for.When Governemnts get serious about the safety of the community they will target the other end of the leash until then nothing will change.

I dont know how I missed this but havent been here much lately.I was saddened to hear of your plight Jane and wish you a speedy recovery.I hope your physical injuries heal quickly the others I know will take much longer.Take care we are thinking of you.

Victory for 'deed not breed' in Scotland

22 April 2010

Vets are celebrating a victory for the principle of ‘deed not breed’ in the control of dangerous or out of control dogs, after the Control of Dogs (Scotland) Bill passed Stage 3 in the Scottish Parliament unanimously today.

As a member of the Dangerous Dogs Act Study Group (DDASG), the British Veterinary Association (BVA) has been lobbying members of the Scottish Parliament to support the Control of Dogs Bill since it was introduced as a Member’s Bill by Alex Neil MSP and continued by Christine Grahame MSP.

Ahead of the Stage 3 debate the BVA and DDASG lobbied all MSPs requesting their support for an amendment tabled by Patricia Ferguson MSP, which removed the reference to a dog’s “size and power” when considering whether it is out of control.

The amendment was passed today by 57 to 42 votes.

Commenting, Professor Bill Reilly, President of the BVA, said:

“This a fantastic step forward in our campaign against breed-specific legislation and we are grateful to Christine Grahame and Patricia Ferguson for enshrining the important principle of ‘deed not breed’ in legislation.

“The key message is that any dog can show aggression, particularly if it is not handled and trained properly, so legislation that provides the tools to target irresponsible ownership before it becomes a problem is very welcome.

“The rest of the UK should now look to Scotland and replace the failed breed-specific legislation in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.”

Andrew Ash, President-Elect of the British Small Animal Veterinary Association (BSAVA) and BVA representative on the DDASG, added:

“The BSAVA is delighted that the Scottish Parliament has signed up to the principle of deed not breed.

“A dog’s behaviour is largely the result of the rearing and training provided by the owner. The problems caused by dangerous dogs will never be solved until dog owners appreciate that they are responsible for the actions of their animals.

“The veterinary profession will continue to support all efforts to promote responsible ownership and work with owners who are struggling with their pets.”

Notes to editors

1. The Control of Dogs (Scotland) Bill was introduced as a Member’s Bill by Alex Neil MSP and continued by Christine Grahame MSP. More information on the Bill (from the Scottish Parliament website)

2. The Bill will become an Act approximately one month after being passed at Stage 3, when it receives Royal Assent (although some or all of the Act may not come into force until later still)

3.BVA policy on dangerous dogs

4. The Dangerous Dogs Act Study Group (DDASG) includes representatives from: Battersea Dogs and Cats Home, the Blue Cross, the British Veterinary Association, Dogs Trust, the Kennel Club, Mayhew Animal Home, the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons, Wandsworth Borough Council, and Wood Green Animal Shelters, as well as dangerous dogs expert Trevor Turner.

5. For more information please contact the BVA press office

At least it looks like a start.if only the government here would listen to common sense.

I sure hope someone in jail tries that "discipline" technique on him. Scum of the earth.

I second that.Maybe someone can put a sleeper hold on him so he knows what it feels like for your life to start slipping from your grasp.They do use behaviour modification devices in prison they are called tasers,very effective in training much like an e collar.

I think he needs to stop self admistering "medication" also.Obviously his parents were concerned for his or their safety or both for them to tell the police.

At least he got remanded in custody,Barry Rochford got to terrorise a lot more people before he came up on the radar.Maybe they are starting to take notice.

Stories like these make me wish there was a Name and Shame website with all the names of animal abusers who are caught.

There is but be warned some of the stuff on their is very very disturbing.

http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/13837/VIC/AU/

It has started already.The media propaanda to put a spin on it.The NT will follow soon enough.Look for the next dog attack in the NT news it will be a pitbull and probably in the next month or so just to add impetus to it.Its easy to manipulate the media to do the dirty work the government does it al the time.

Onya Graham Doyle for not having a clue paperwork done up on a computer.Where did tis twat come from?ADBA papers look far better than cheap ass ANKC papers beleive me they are not done up on someone's computer buddy.

I can't speak for the NT, but in the case of the ACT, don't bank on that.

I know you have said it before but we will see.The NT will be next.The ACT I suspect wont be that far behind.Dogs are different to porn and fireworks after all.I hope you're right but I just cant see if they were the last one left that they would allow them to be bred under the noses of the politicians that run this country.After all they brought about import bans in the first place.

Sorry but I told you it was coming.NT and the ACT are next.baaah baaah baaahh

As for the filo vs fila thing. I would hope people are above calling names and making fun of people for making a mistake in a foreign language. I would bet that I speak a lot more Portuguese than 99% of the people on this forum . . . gender and noun endings are a hard thing for English speaking people in a Latin language. Filo is not pastry in Brazil (or should I spell it Brasil). DOL contributors make regular errors in English, its for it's, now for know, there for their, yadda yadda yadda. I'm happy dealing with verbal attack (if I didn't I wouldn't frequent this forum), but please, keep it to substance, not trivia.

Its not about poking fun at you as everyone makes mistakes it is about being correct.The name of the breed defines to an extent what he is therfore you should understand the name and what it means.The same as I posted for the Presa.It was for your understanding not to make fun of you.Read my posts my spelling is often wrong and its not becuase I cant spell its becuase I type so fast this old computer cant keep up.I dont go back and correct my spelling becuase I dont use spell check I think it is more human to make mistakes.I am not here to win a spelling bee.There is no verbal attack on my part anyway just difference of opinions.

Ok. my Portuguese isn't great and I get word endings switched. Believe me, mixing filo (which means phylum in Portuguese) with fila (which means line or file, and also refers to the dog breed) is nowhere as embarassing as confusing pico (hill) with pica (crude word for penis) . . . a mistake that has caused me to blush a few time. Filo does not mean pastry in Portuguese. Or are you among the many that think they speak Spanish in Brazil?

You are probably trying to use a translator and it wont work.Fila in old Portuguese means to seize or hold.Portuguese and Brazilian are similar but not the same.Rference to filo was the pastry thats english obviously it went over your head.

Much the same as the Perro De presa Canario menas the gripping or holding dog of the Canary Islands.

there were tons of filas brought into the country and the NT is proof of it. they have been crossed with great danes to shorten the jowl length so when hunting pigs they wouldnt fang themselves as much.

if you actually use that google thingy on your computer you may be able to find that with enough search attemps you can readily find fila cross breeds in australia and they look just like a fila to me. i found two ads in less than a ten minute period that were 75% fila in their breedings.

I am sorry but you are wrong.Just becuase someone says they have something doesnt mean they do.Plenty of tossers out there selling things they dont have and others buying them thinking they have gotten one and continuing to perpetuate the lie.

There are several Boerboels in WA already not all from Ataraxia but all come down from their dogs originally obviously.No litters here yet to my knowledge but it wont be long.

Anyone know of any good repro vets in or around the Gold Coast area.I know ther are a couple of vets use the Camelot Farms system In Brisbane but dont know who is good on the Coast.Anybody?

No less relevance than the made up and obvious false statement that they are the most common breed of dog in the US .

Believe what ever you want to believe.

Hello DOLer's,

I own a large breed (Sierra, RR) who is desexed. I was just looking at her littermates online (as you do ) and her litter sister recently had a litter. She would of been approx 21 months old when mated and pups whelped when approx 23 months old. Sire was 11 months old at mating.

Is this too young or am I overeacting?

I thought with large breeds you waited a little longer for maturity?

TIA

Generally speaking it is 2 years but 21 months is fine.What I dont agre with is using a stud at 11 months of age.I know at times there may be reasons for it but to me it is to young.How can accurately gauge how the dog will turn out a this age?You will have a good idea but its not set in stone.

It used to be considered normal to use a dog at stud for the first time around 10 months if possible. It matures them up and usually leads to a more reliable easy to use stud. Dogs not used till later can be more difficult to get matings with. In breeds where hip scoring is done it is usual to wait until the dog is old enough to be hip scored before using him. From a purely physical point of view many breeds are capable of siring a litter from about 6 months.

I dont know about maturing them.It does make them easier to handle when mating and gets them used to it but that said I have never had too much trouble with using an older dog that hasnt been used.It just takes more time and effort.My other question was going to be abot hip scoring and you are right best to wait until a hip score is done.In saying that how many breeders of large breeds hip score their dogs,put up your hands.I see a growing trend of peope not doing it.I know of quite a few registered breeders of large breeds who dont and give various excuses why.

Many breeds as you have said can physically sire a litter at 6 months and I have witnessed this purposely being done by a registered breeder just to fill puppy orders.A registered breeder of bull breeds whose dogs appear in the pages here.Shame shame shame.

I agree he was well within his rights however if you cant kill the dog with one clean shot then dont take the shot.Losing stock is one thing but making other animals suffer because your shooting sucks is another.

Interesting. Where did your stats come from? I don't know where you find statistics on dog ownership by breed or how you conclude there are 4.5 million APBT's in the US. dontbullymybreed.org says the pit bull WAS the most popular breed in the US in the first half of the 20th century . . . but gives no references. They also say Pittis are extremely common in some places, eg, Chicago. I was born and raised in the US and lived there for about 45 years. I met a lot of dogs. Not many APBT's however. According to the AKC the Labrador is the most popular breed, topping registrations of any other breed by around a factor of two. Next most popular is the GSD, followed by (surprise to me) the Yorkshire Terrier.

Btw. Yes I do have a thing about the Filo, partly from having spent time in Brazil, but mostly because, in the reading I've done on dog temperament, the Filo is the most extreme breed in the extent to which, by breed standard in its country of origin, dogs are expected to be hostile to unfamiliar people. If you can find another breed where pups are expected to snarl at strangers by 12 weeks, or where biting the judge at a dog show is acceptable, I'll be happy to add that breed to my personal list of breeds I think should be prohibited from import. I am against BSL in most cases, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. An import ban on a breed selected for HA is prevention.

It comes from various places and the numbers vary.There is no 100% accurate census statistics by breed available in the US.They are estimates by the HSUS and others and quoted in many places.The stats vary from between 5% to 10% of all dogs in the States are pitbulls.What you quoted for labs is from the ANKC website and that relates specifically to AKC registrations of Labradors in the States so also not totally accurate as far as overall numbers go and considring APBT are not AKC registerable.Go to any humane shelter in the US and they will tell you that overall numbers of dogs in shelters the percentage of pitbulls will outstrip all others and it is because the population of the breed is higher than others.

You are entitled to your opinion just as anyone else is and you dont have to like every breed of dog but you could at least spell his name right.Its FILA not filo.Filo is a type of pastry that crumbles when pressure is applied unlike the real Fila.Like I have said before I think you read a bit much into it and intertwined in that the history of the breed.Yes they were bred to run down run away slaves as well as other things but do yuo honestly think the dogs one hundred and fifty years ago are exactly the same now.Any breed or type of dog that cant fit into the family unit or doesnt suit the environment doesnt exist for too long.If you have been to brazil and I have too ask peole there that own them.Thse that do will tell you how much of a great family dog they are.You wont find stats on human fatalities for them becuase there arent any.I am sure there has been isolated incidents as there is with any breed but on the whole thre isnt anything newsworthy.There was the incident with Ving Rhymes dogs but the guy was found to have died from a heart attack.

Read the history of the Black Russian Terrier the Caucasian Ovcharka the Boerboel.The only difference with these dogs are they are newer creations except the ovcharka but the people who have written the modern standard and temperament/characteristics have taken into accopunt people like yourself taking things out of context.The real temperaments of the above mentiond breeds is not much idfferent to the Fila of course there are the extremes in every breed.You dont need to go posting the standards I already know what they are I am telling you from people I knows experience and from real word of mouth what these dogs are about.

The Black Russian Terrier was bred by the Russian Military to be a supreme guard dog to guard Gulags and POW's and to view those that didnt feed them or train them as vermin.The real ones have a temperament that most people in this country couldnt handle.Fortunately show breeding has watered them down.

The Boerboel as I said before is heavily bred from Bullmastiff when the Bullmastiff was the real deal and a bandog bred from working stock from Estates where they performed the duty of catching poachers.A dog that fetures in the history of the bullmastiff was bred from a known man killer as this was their duty in the day.These dogs also had bloodhound in them just like the Fila does.Dogs were exported to SA and feature prominently in the History of the Boerboel.I share this info not to put the spotlight on other breeds but just so you can see there are many dogs bred as guard dogs that til this day still live happy lives as family dogs.

I do understand your logic sometimes people need protecting from themsleves but as I have stated there are dogs already here some of them ANKC registered that are too much dog for some people.The only way to make people more responsible and accountable is pass the law to put the onus on the owner of the dog.

RIP What a tragedy.