ness

There wasn't totally a straight line betwen 1 and 2 but yes I probably should have set her up on more of an angle instead of directly facing towards the jump. Force of habit I guess. I also haven't done a heap of having her set on an angle and taking the jump so maybe it was a security thing to. I doubt she would have run past it but it you haven't trained it you just don't know.

Thanks for that though maybe its something I need to work on with just having one jump and setting her at various angles. What about the serpentine handling in the MJ round?

So which was it - my shockingly misplaced front cross on her PM Masters Jumping round, my really bad handling in the PM open jumping round because I was way to scared to cross in case she dropped the bar on me or my badly handled section in her PM excellent agility around after the broadjump .

I see a trend here mostly my PM runs were crap and the AM runs were handled much better (from a handling perspective only not to knock the fact she got 2 Q's in her PM runs).

Actually on the PM masters Jumping round - the first bar that dropped is that a me bar or a her bar. I am wondering if I handled the serpentine wrongly and that is what caused her to take the bar or whether she was just being lazy and dropping the bar?

I need picky please!!!!!! I was saying to somebody nobody really comments on handling and I really don't pretend to have all the answers, not even half the answers. Go on pick them to your hearts content I need to know what I need to work on.

I have 9 jumps and a set of weavers at home at the moment (till nationals) so can take gear to the park and set up a sequence if I need to practice anything.

So Vickie anything to add to the comments based on the rest of my runs

Hey Vickie,

If your in the mood for a holiday Adelaide is a lovely place to visit - can even offer accomodation up on the Murray that is doggy friendly :D . Parents won't allow dogs inside at home (other than Ness) but up there its free range. We are right on the river (well as close as you can be) about a 400 meter walk down the hill.

ETA. It sucks that we never have seminars over here any more - just when I have the money to be able to go now

Yeah leopuppy - at least I could sleep slightly better last night because I wasn't in so much pain until about 5am this morning - bloody back.

Whats more I have to get to uni later for a meeting this arvo - hmm hopefully I am feeling better.

Ness is still recovering from yesterday and sound asleep to :D .

ETA. Ness has been in excellent agility since 2004!!!!!!

Well done Vickie and Trim. And also to Maverick on your ADX.

Alright we had a huge day yesterday - sorry leopuppy I had to sleep in first .

First up we managed to get 6!!! that is right 6 lead outs in a trial. Almost better than the rest of my brag which I shall get to in a minute. I tried exactly what I suggested may work and basically took her lead off the minute we walked in the ring and before setting her up. She was much more stable that way. First couple I only left her a couple of steps and stayed on the same side of the jump but by my final couple of runs I was able to lead out to the other side of the first bar :D .

Now to my brags we also managed to walk away with 3 quallies from our 6 rounds (would have been 4 if I hadn't celebrated to soon when I thought my dog was committed to a tunnel when she wasn't. We got our first pass in open jumping coming 8th out of 9 quallifiers so she actually beat somebody (and like I said it was nearly 2). There was a bar way out and I thought she wasn't going to be able to complete the distance challenge because you basically had to stop dead and push the dog out to a bar set out at the max distance but nope she managed it. Not the nicest round from a handling perspective but I was thrilled that she passed. She also ran a lovely Masters Jumping round in the AM which she didn't quallie on but I was extremely happy with the round - the big thing she was under time.

The really big brag is she got not 1 but 2 quallies in Excellent Agility for finally her ADX title and not only did she manage two quallies but won the ring both times . I was shocked with her first round in particular as one of the other dogs who she beat by roughly 0.2 of a second I would have thought Ness would run slower so she must have been running really well. I couldn't wipe the smile of my face all day and certainly it was one of her best trials ever from a quallie perspective. She has managed 2 quallies out of 7 runs twice over in WA but hell 3 from 6 is brilliant - 2 of the other 6 were just small single errors (read handler errors) and the other run wasn't to bad either.

She weaved like a charm all day and got all her contacts. I was impressed with her weaving as there were lots of fast entries and some were even tripping up some of the Masters dogs.

Doubly please since I was up half of Saturday night with a very sore back and nearly didn't go yesterday as it was agony to even get in the car. Not sure if that was an omen or not.

Any way I posted all my rounds on youtube - so here are the links .

Excellent Agility AM

Open Jumping AM

Masters Jumping AM

Excellent Agility PM and ADX TITLE

Masters Jumping PM

Open Jumping - quallie

LOL nope leo's turns are much nicer than Ness but hopefully we can fix that.

Ness wants a new handler for tomorrow - great pair we are going to make with her leg and my back deciding to play up. .

ETA was it a called heel pattern or did you just make it up - I found I am heaps more confident when I am just making up a heel pattern as I go compared with somebody calling it. Anticipation can show up even more then. Especially if your like me and nervous as hell so therefore you anticipate yourself and not just the dog.

I am jealous he heels better than Ness and she is in UD .

Hey Vickie,

Thanks I may try removing her lead earlier - she is after all an obedience dog first and foremost so control off lead isn't a huge issue.

As for breaking at a trial - since I don't ask for a stay/wait she isn't really breaking which I guess is the only thing I have in my favour. She did once and now I don't even ask I just have a routine where I do take my hand off her collar and then just run. I have occasionally (when I can see she is relaxed at the startline when I place my hand on her collar) asked for a small lead out but only when I know she is going to be successful and its usually later on in the day after she has already had a few rounds.

Somebody else did suggest blowing runs as a solution problem being she isn't a super high drive dog and there was a risk that trying this method would shut her down. We both agreed that if a low drive dog did that we should savour it. It was great for a while now its frustrating.

She honestly doesn't run faster with a lead out then she does running with me I guess its just catching me a bit unawares now because you think she will start slower and for some reason decides to have a burst of speed.

Thanks again.

Leopuppy that is what I used 2x2 to teach. Angled entries . Starting with only 4-6 poles.

Might have to look for those - we have bought some PVC but still have to make the nails for them to go into.

There is a fantastic article in Clean run on how to teach it but basically you start out with 2 poles and send the dog through. Then gradually add 2 poles at a time till you get to 12. You can also introduce angled approaches from 2 poles but I prefer waiting till I have 4 poles. You do those as you would do angled fronts (around the clock locations). Probably didn't explain it very well.

I am pretty sure its in her book shaping success as well .

Hm Ness has/had lovely independant weavers - taught using Susan Garretts 2x2. I got slack and now she needs a second weaving command otherwise she stops. I use to just be able to say Go Weave and she would complete them regardless of what I was doing.

Leo can already weave can't he. I retaught Ness using the 2x2 method - to fix entries and help with just using a signal command. We initially did weave-o-matic type (stuck in the ground weavers bent over and gradually made straight) when she was first learning.

ETA where did you get your weaving poles from and what did you make them out of

True I could train it to. Maybe when I have a set of weavers - got my jumps now for some weavers .

I'll try it but I can't guarantee she will stay put. We shall see I can usually tell in the first 2-3 seconds when I go to remove her lead whether she will stay or not. Mostly its a not. On a technicality point of view from somebody who trials if I remove her lead and then ask her to set up is that ok? or do you have to have them sitting or standing and then remove the lead and hand it to the steward. I just wondered if I would get better control over the start if I took her lead off earlier rather than later. Means if she goes to start early I haven't set her up yet so I can get her switched on to me. So if I took her lead off further back and walked her to her set up point off-lead.

ETA. Yep Masters courses are god dam difficult enough as it is and starting behind the eightball when she decides to break at the start is costing us valuable time (time I need so we have a hope of qualifying)

Oh yes that question . Entries she never misses at trials but the popping at 10 well yep that is a problem. Case in point second agility round the other weekend. First one she completed them nicely second time she popped. I MUST not try and get ahead of myself when we get to pole 10 and not just expect she will do it and add in another weaving command.

<Now to just remember to do that>

ETA. Just to add insult to injury we were playing around with startline stays at training as well. The course had a lovely straight 4 bar lead out. No matter how hard we tried Ness wouldn't break her startline stay at all. We threw toys, food you name it, had pretend judges calling out are you ready in a loud voice - emphasising the ready. Nothing she wouldn't budge till I gave her her release command. Whats the bet she won't hold on at the trial on Sunday. Time to kill I think LOL.

Sorry I love asking loaded questions .

We had two different ones but they were both handler fault. First time she popped at pole 10 (and she does that on the rare occasion) I think I pulled her out. But did fine when I put her through again.

The other instance was a missed entry and again it was handler fault because I hadn't shaped her approach so she was wide enough to take the first pole. Again I took her back to the obstacle prior (which happened to be the dogwalk) then sent her again.

Yep I am stalking you again .

Hey I discovered a couple of other things last night. One being I can toss her ball as a reward and she will drive after it but she still expects a treat when she returns it and secondly she is slowly improving on her tugging out at agility.

She is getting so good at chilling in her crate with the door open until I release her .

So Vickie what do you do in a situation like Cosmolo suggested - a dog popping weavers. I just ran back and did them again and then rewarded her when she completed them (we had a similar situation happen last night).

Interestingly on the topic of motivation - I ran a friends kelpie last night who was running ok for the handler but nothing special. This dog is getting on in age and has all his masters titles. Anyway we ran a blinder of a round. Then I went and got my girl back and ran her immediately after. Before when I ran her she was a bit flat (still in recovery mode from the weekend) but when I tried after running this other dog she certainly perked up a lot and ran quite a nice round herself.

Well there is a cue its just not a cue all the time. I said in my post I would have a do you want to do something type command followed by a hop in (close) type command to get her set up. Its no different to what I do now. When I want her to heel I get her tell her are you ready, place my foot slightly out tell her to get in and she sets up - after which time I expect her to heel until I release her.

Nope my dog isn't expected to heel all the time - far from it. The only time we do heelwork is when we are training or in the ring. Can't help the fact she tries it on occasionally during a walk in the hope of getting rewarded. Also I forgot to say all my heelwork would also be trained offlead (which is another reason I wouldn't train at a club) so no confusion with LLW since there is no lead .

ETA. I'll see if I can get the set up bit videoed although you can probably see it from the videos I have up on youtube.

You know I never did post how I would go about teaching heel. I would avoid putting a command on it at all. Yep all future heelwork would be done UD style from the very begining. In the absence of anything else the dog is to stay in position. Lots of doodling heelwork with no commands. Easier then having to fade commands later.

I'd use exactly what I do now with Ness it would be a do you want to do something, are you ready. Hop in. (which would probably be "close" with a new puppy). Then no command for actually taking off at heel. The movement forward is enough of a command.

Hey Leopuppy,

Can't avoid a response from me . Ness is completely the same and before Gina's demo at expo in 2005 (oh yep those darn WA people seem to be responsible for having changed everything) she would never work for anybody else. Now she will work for a select few other than me (Gina being one). She had one person who she has known from a puppy but not even her could get Ness to run an agility course without her coming back to me. I am the only one in my family who can get her to play frisbee or chase a ball and have her return it.

At expo stands she is "happy" to say hi but usually that entails her staring at me and the person being allowed to pat her but her eyes never really leave me.

Not sure I would be worried - as long as she isn't aggressive over it like you said and its also part of the Aussie personality so I would just accept it. I am sure if for whatever reason you couldn't be there over time she would adapt and warm to somebody else.

LOL leopuppy - nope what I am saying is that I learnt my lesson with the Ness monster - I think we have undone it all now but its only taken 5 years or so. I would never train heelwork that way again.

Great to hear that Croydon don't introduce heelwork till they are 9 months. I would be interested to here how they teach it once they introduce it and good to know they teach the static heel position earlier. I am not adverse to teaching it earlier just that I would want to build it up in smaller steps then going into a class and expecting the dog to "heel" around in a circle for ages and ages. Lot of fun and games.

I will also add this to my comment earlier - I wouldn't be training a dog at "most" clubs but rather would train the dog up myself and then use the club when I wanted distractions. That would depend very much on the club and how the classes are run but all the clubs here force huge amounts of heelwork on dogs from the very begining and long boring heel patterns starting from the age of 4-5 months and I don't think that is very conducive to producing a top or even an average scoring obedience dog.

Not saying all clubs train this way just the ones I have observed.

Nope you don't have to as long as you have access to the right connections :D . I got my girl to a CDX trialling standard without attending a club (although I did for the last 4 months before entering a trial because I finally found somewhere to train).

We have been training UD since begining of November and we only just started going back out to the club at the begining of March.

I guess it depends if you have trained a dog to the standard you want before and if you have a wonderful support network of people to turn to if you get stuck or want a second set of eyes. If that is the case then nope you don't really need to train at a club.

oh your horrid .

Did she focus on any particular level or was it more general?