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Amax-1

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Everything posted by Amax-1

  1. Ideally, the best deterrent factor is a breed of dog that a potential offender can easily recognise has protection capabilities to deter them from attempting entry onto your property, that is you don't want them to try and test the dog, you want them to move on from your property because a certain breed of dog that they fear is present. Whilst a Maremma may be effective with an offender on the fence line, they look like Golden Retrievers to the untrained eye, Goldens and Labs have low deterrent factor compared with a GSD or Rotty in criminal eyes. From statistical data on the breed of dogs that potential offenders avoid, breeds other than GSD's and Rotties generally need to show strong aggression on the fence line where the GSD and Rotty has the same impact or better by standing there quietly in watch......we must be mindful in criminal eyes that they easily recognise GSD's and we can put Belgian Shepherd's in that group too and of course the Rotty and perhaps the Dobe to a lesser degree, they know the capabilities of these breeds trained in protection and they never know what level of training that the dog in question has achieved. The quite watch could be awaiting a full blown attack should the offender cross the boundary line and the possibility of that occurring is greater in the traditional protection breeds. The same applies on leash in personal protection where a handler threatens to release a dog, the criminal will size up the possibility of the dog's training and with a GSD or Rotty, the handler is 90% there in bluff as the criminal well knows that these breeds can and are trained to attack on command where the likelihood of other breeds not used in those roles to attack on command is slim in comparison. The beauty of traditional protection breeds is that as a pet and family dog to have an impact, they don't need to be aggressive or show aggression at all and their mere presence is enough to keep the potential offender guessing as to their protection capabilities and if the offender calls it wrong and the dog is trained to attack, a trip to hospital and possible police arrest for their criminal intent will be the likely outcome. With non traditional protection breeds, they don't come with additional bluff factor and generally need to be more stranger aggressive to provide the deterrent impact.
  2. My opinion is the best breeds for guarding/deterrent is the GSD or Rotty simply because everyone knows what they are and what their training capabilities are and intruders don't trust them, even one who is seemingly quite, a potential intruder is never sure of what a GSD or Rotty may do when their territory and family is under threat making a great deterrent factor. For a great family dog with deterrent factor, I think the GSD or Rotty tops the charts......not that other large breeds are not effective, just that the GSD and Rotty have an edge over other breeds for this purpose as the general public and potential offenders are well aware of the breeds used in a professional capacity and the breeds that aren't and they believe that certain breeds are used over others for a reason. :)
  3. I have never had a working line GSD returned from experienced handlers, but I have had several from owners new to the breed struggling to cap their drives and for the most part, the GSD is easier to handle than a Mal but of course it depends on the individual dog's character and the determination of the owner to train the dog efficiently too. Personally, I wouldn't sell a working GSD or a Mal to just anyone unless I was comfortable with their ability to raise the dog responsibly as they can get out of control fairly quickly if allowed to through adolescence I have experienced. I wouldn't go as far as to rule anyone out on experience as I too have had some great new owners, but if new owners to the breed don't understand the level of commitment or they tire of the commitment is where the problems have been with retuned dogs around the 10 to 16 month old bracket and wished that I had of homed the puppies more diligently.
  4. You would hope past mismanagement would have paved the way for improved management. I don't get their interpretation either
  5. Personally I think that should read "no individual dog of any particular breed is more likely to attack than another, however some breeds produce more individual dogs who are likely to attack more frequently than others". The term "likely to attack" is a very wide spectrum dependant on the circumstance triggering a potential attack. Again in some circumstances an entire male is more likely to attack for example in the presence of a bitch in season and they can possess more fight drive in a territorial aspect but whether or not an entire dog is likely to attack someone unprovoked than a neutered male I have never seen a study that actually proves that. An entire female can attack in protection of her pups too, but would she bite someone randomly for no reason because she is entire? Mismanagement of a dog IMHO is the sole reason attacks occur in the first place.
  6. The biggest concern I see is why the dog lunged and bit "several" people. After the first one, I would expect that the owner handled the dog appropriately to prevent any more bites being inflicted on others.......that's a worry with a new born around if the owner isn't proactive in control of the dog.
  7. Without sounding as an alarmist, I am a bit concerned at they way some breeders of working Malinois are seemingly selling to anyone and on a few occasions I have seen surplus Mal pups coming out of pet shops and have also seen and tested a couple I would call environmentally unstable with too much sharp aggression for an average pet home to effectively manage. I feel much more comfort in the thought of Mals in the hands of people experienced in the ownership and training of working line GSD's as pre-requisite to owning a Mal, not to say that by any means a new Mal owners prepared to put the work in from puppyhood isn't going to work out, but seeing the performance of a well trained Mal and admiring their amazing capabilities isn't something that comes straight out the box without a lot of time and effort in training and handler control and I am hoping that Mals on "peoples must have one day" lists are fully understanding of their requirements and most importantly to source a good one or more to the point, to research and learn what a good one is in basic temperament. I have seen all of this before with GSD's, Doberman, Rottweiler and Pitbulls in the hands of the irresponsible in management and breeding does cause me some concern where the Malinois is heading with it's increasing interest and popularity. I had a young guy ask me the other day when I would trade in my GSD for a real working dog a Malinois, if I could handle a proper fighting machine telling me his next dog will be a Mal.......he had a sweet Staffy X girl he reckoned was a Pitbull.....the mind boggles at the thought of an idiot like this with a Mal?
  8. I am disturbed by the instructor placing you in a position where by his stand over tactics with your dog regardless of what she did made him vulnerable to getting bitten. The outcry that someone's dog just bit the instructor in a club environment through no fault of the dog or handler is a very thoughtless thing to do with potentially nasty circumstances for the instructor if a bite occurred and for you as the dog's owner/handler being exposed to an upsetting experience that would most certainly ruined your day. I think some instructors may have watched too many Cesar Milan episodes with this approach of stand over and staring out other peoples dogs, the instructor should have had more sense than to do that and luckily there was no consequence. No, I am not a believer of correcting a dog unless it's in the exact moment and you catch the behaviour in mid flight, timing a correction is critical and when the incident is done, the dog had a snarl and recomposed, it's too late for a correction to be effective and in fact, it's actually correcting the dog for re-composing which is what you want from the dog, a fast re-composure after a brief reaction, by not correcting I think was the right thing to do in the circumstances most definitely, a good call I think :)
  9. FYI Amax-1, Westie Club Qld: This year's Christmas BBQ Breakfast will be held on Saturday, 7 December 2013 at 9.00am. John Goss Reserve, Maundrell Tce, Chermside West (near St Gerards Catholic Church) $5.00 per person. Children under 10 are free. BYO drinks and chairs. Come along and share a wonderful day with us. It is a great opportunity for Westie owners to meet and exchange Westie stories and information. It is a fun day with lots of games for you and your westies, raffles, prizes and Santa may pay us a visit too. All members and visitors are welcome! You and your wife just better be there! ps...leave your GSD's at home...they may be ganged up on by 30+ Westies :D Excellent thank you :)
  10. I have only ever homed working GSD pups which are usually purchased for a reason, but I think as a breeder you really need to fully understand what the buyer expects from the dog as an adult and try and work out from experience which pup is most suitable. Buyers often choose for the wrong reasons, but I think if someone does want to choose it's good to make it a mutual choice with them and if you can see them going wrong try and gently steer them towards the right pup for them to make the final choice.
  11. Thanks for you kind words much appreciated. What actually bought me here to the forum is to research Westies (West Highland Terriers)as my wife adores them and has wanted one for her personal dog for many years an idea that I have rejected for no good reason other than my passion for working GSD's. She said to me the other night, that wanting a Westie doesn't mean she doesn't want GSD's, she just wants a breed she feels passionate about also and she can pick up and handle more easily and why can't we have both?. She's right so other than knowing Westies are white, well I assume they all white and they have a cute face, I am hoping to learn something about them from the knowledgeable people here is the forum which I am sure I will find. I wasn't aware of too many working dog discussions occurring here and the agility threads I have read before, have too much precision for me and I don't understand the lingo of what the training is about, until I read the police dog thread I was a bit of an occasional lurker and thought perhaps I could speak on the subject with a contribution as the topic to many seemed interesting. It's nice to be welcomed aboard, thank you :)
  12. Hi everyone and if I may, I would like to add to this discussion having spent the last 30 years of my life involved in a passion for working GSD's particularly. Over the past 30 years I will be honest to say that the text book perfect dog still alludes me and I haven't found him/her as yet although I am still passionate trying to breed, find acquire that dog who is perfectly adjusted in all facets of environment by nature, a child's playmate, family pet to a fierce protector of only genuine threat all achieved by pure instinct with only training to fine tune that. I have had very good working dogs who are absolutely adorable with the family, I have had dogs of equal working ability who love to play with children, any children they have shown a gentle and friendly character towards. On the other hand, I have also had dogs of again equal working ability, who are one handler dogs that didn't overly like the wife no matter how kind she was or how dominant she was there was an element of distrust in those particular dogs. I had one dog particularly who saw kids on skateboards as the ultimate prey catch to the point it scares me to envisage what this dog may have done in face of an innocent skateboarder encountered off leash and on the flip side, I have also had dogs of near perfect character with bad hips, one with elbow dysplasia and one who could never jump well or work on slippery or wet floors and one who was petrified of heavy traffic crossing a main road, the same dog in a dark alley encountering an attacker was a prize fighter, so what I have found is each and every dog has it's strengths and weaknesses in a working role, they are all individuals we take the good with the bad. For a dog to be trained in protection not meaning a dog who will bark on command and show aggression towards a threat in a deterrent manner, but a dog who will bring down an offender as in this police dog story need to have particular traits to be successfully trainable in that job, the job of K9 arrest. If the primary function of that dog is K9 arrest and if that dog is not so good as a family pet doesn't matter and the dog is handled off the job accordingly to it's character default. We can't say that all "police dogs" in general are environmentally stable at all times because they are police dogs, some are and some not so much, it depends on the dog's default character and the primary role that the dog shall be working under. Some arresting K9's can be adapted to tracking in search and rescue where others cannot be used in SAR as although they track extremely well, they track aggressively to win the prize and taking the edge off the aggression in the search through training, dulls their ability to arrest an offender and are completely the wrong character of dog for SAR type work or dual roles, again it depends on the individual dog's default character which can vary dramatically. For simplicity of this discussion, there are two types of dogs that can be trained in protection which are either prey driven or defence driven by nature. Prey driven dogs providing they have a courageous enough character which not all prey driven dogs are blessed with, when trained properly make a safer and more reliable protector as a general rule of thumb. Defence driven dogs on the flip side tend to be more aggressive by nature, easier to initially train, but more of a liability when managed incorrectly, but either character types can be equally as effective in the actual role of protection, but again it depends on the individual dog primarily and the training secondary. As a personal thought in regards to this topic, I couldn't see much sense in deploying the dog to make an arrest given the human resources at hand, helicopter, jet ski etc, the offender didn't really have an escape path to use the services of a dog IMHO.
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