KobiD

Ohh I do Tassie! I think what I probably should do is increase the value of the reward. Work with something a bit tastier than plain old dog biscuits.

There really is no excuse for this, given everyone has access to technology and that the web is filled with a multitude of information from articles to forum based material. Generally, the people who buy a pet on impulse will be the same people who would bypass the option of seeing a vet.. Another valuable source of information is the person who is selling the animal as well.. When we acquired our rescue pup, the shelter provided a nice big package of information regard things we should know, contact numbers, etc etc. I'm sure reputable breeders (given they are selective about who the sell to) would also be into educating people. With rescues though, it really is hit/miss with what you are getting both breed wise and behavioural. You just can't tell from the short time you spend with them, and it's likely that a vet wouldn't be able to either. The staff at shelters generally just make an educated guess, but even then it's still a guess. End of the day, I figure some people simply act on emotion/impulse where others like to be well informed prior; and that carries through multiple aspects of their life. It's a really hard proposition to try and help people who have trouble helping themselves.

Little trouble maker

The bounce off I speak of was more in relation to loose leash walking. It's a funny one, because if I drop the leash or unclip her she's quite happy to meander around doing her own thing but always in proximity and always paying attention to where I am. Ie if I walk off she'll want to follow. If I call she listens. If I cue her to sit stay she does it. Same around the yard off leash. On leash (probably more so that we are exploring new environment covered with bulk dog scent among other things) she finds the leash restrictive. She wants to be able to stop, sniff, go ahead, sniff, etc but at times it clashes with the concept of walking together. I'll mark and reward when she's in a good position, and I'll ask for certain positions and reward as well, but while we are moving forward she has her own ideas of what's next. Stop walking and she'll focus more intently. Move out into the middle of the road where there are less distractions and she'll behave better, go back to the footpath and she'll be focussed on the smells. Go into some bushland and she's overwhelmed with what she can find.

I agree, and basically the direction we went. If any single one of them stopped listening we'd just separate them all for a while and move onto something else. Our kids are pretty good at seeing the behaviour now and taking some action to make it stop. Visitors are getting the idea too. She's learning to generalise what's expected. She has different behaviours depending on who she is dealing with.

I agree in theory RB, except it's more that she used to perform soley for the daughter, in that she would focus on her and follow cue. Now there is more of a shift in focus, where even though my daughter is the one holding and delivering the treats, the dogs focus shifts between her and me, where you can see the puppy seeking further direction. The young fella was a bit sulky the other evening too.. Apparently the puppy doesn't listen to him anymore and just walks away. I explained he simply needs to work with her more and be very precise in what and when he asks for. She's a very clever dog and can sometimes read more into things than you want. She works at her own pace and will try it on if you let her. Ie ask for a sit and she'll wait and see if you'll actually wait her out to do it. Of course I always do.. and if she fannies about getting it done I'll make her work more before she gets any reward (if any). On the other hand, the little fella (he's 8) and his mum taught the roll over cue where the dog does a full roll. It's still not fully reliable but it's building so it's not like she doesn't listen to them at all. I think the rest of the family just need to step up and pick in some more training efforts again.

Kids range in age, but all under 10. Some would grasp the concept, others not so much. They all do feed off each other though, so it's a bit of a cycle. Ie We have guests so that excites our kids and the animal. Then they all play together already in an aroused state. Then the puppy might bail one over and then the tears and some fear comes. Said child will then either try and run away which feeds back on the puppy who wants to 'play'. Typically we tend to keep them isolated and explain that the puppy jumps around and gets too rough when she's excited and then work a small session where the kids/relatives can say hello, reward and come back inside. Basically just a proofing process with greater distractions. The other scenario is when our kids are over tired at the end of the day. They tend to be overly emotional and don't listen as well as they should. Cry and argue. Tanties! the whole ugly side of parenting.. add a zoomy afternoon puppy in and it spirals too. We've learnt to pick up on the cues and step in sooner rather than later.

Cheers Tassie Exactly what I have been trying too!! A random number of treats for holding. It only really works a little bit though. She's bloody eager to get back to the environment. I think it's a little of her genetics/temperament to be honest.. given where we live and the number of people who are into pigging I'd say strong chances she is of some hunting heritage. Her shape, her independence, and her drives all suggest the same thing. I'd rather work with it than against, and as such have also started doing a bit of nose work. Putting her in a sit stay and then moving around the yard placing a couple of high value treats around before letting her have a sniff of my hand and releasing her to find them. Wouldn't mind getting her to sit or bark when she finds one before releasing to eat, but that would take some significant time and impulse control on her part! She absolutely loves following her nose!

I can't say I've changed much in the way we've been training or reacting and the behaviours have seemed to pass. No more crying at dinner time. She's reverted back to laying down at the door and sleeping. She gets a nice reward once we've finished and sometimes a few more as she lays down again too. Her loose leash walking has been coming along, doing better, with less food reward and more life rewards. She still tests and pulls at times but not nearly as much. She's very nose focussed and loves to sniff and try to scavenge. More walking means more exposure to people and animals which has in turn given us more opportunity to work with her impulse control around them and I feel she's made some really good improvements. Also had a few play dates with the rellies dog which she loves. One thing I have noticed (back on topic of reward schedule) is that she tends to hit the reward and then take off again. Ie I'll make and reward with her in place while walking on my left heel but as soon as she takes the reward she see's fit as an opportunity to break the behaviour and try and take more range to explore again. I specifically only reward in position but she doesn't seem to put two and two together, or she finds the environment more exciting. In normal training I tend to either place the food somewhere and then release her to eat, or I reward and then release her.. so trying not to encourage food = release. Increasing distraction (walking or travelling to a new area) always poses a challenge too, but with a bit of patience she starts to realise what gets her some freedom. She's a funny dog. Very independent and not very praise/pat/game driven. She loves the environment, smells, whatever she can find, other people and other animals. Been a process of showing her that she needs to focus on me, so that I'll let her focus everywhere else. Have done the same with walking in terms of leash pressure, where she feels it tight and we don't move until it slacks off. And when she gets very sniffy/explorer mode I wait till she looks at me before we take a step. As above though she interprets one step as the cue that she's free to go again! Patience patience young grasshopper. She's definitely matured a bit over the last couple months which has helped too.

A couple months have passed now, and things have continued to move in the right direction. The kids have reclaimed the back yard and are able to ride their pushbikes/go karts or run around without too much drama. Every now and then the dog will get a bit too excited and either bark or knock someone over but she is learning the difference between what we find acceptable and not. Still include both kids in play and feeding routines, and still reward positive behaviour at every opportunity. I have noticed the puppy tends to look at me for confirmation at times now instead of maintaining focus and listening to my daughter. She'll ask the dog something and the dog will look at me as if to ask 'should I?'. I'm not sure how to address that, although I'm sure I've been the one to teach her, either through stepping in to correct actions or by reinforcing cues that my daughter has asked for verbally with physical cues. I'd just like to learn a way to say, yep, listen to 'whoever'. My original approach of marking and rewarding 'kisses' worked well as a first step, but later I found it becoming a bit of a game/cycle where she would be too active in seeking out my daughter as a means of winning a reward. The little one also decided to go through a phase where she'd curl up in a ball on the ground if the dog charged at her a bit too quick, and the dog would then try to give her kisses while she was down. Sometimes this was re-enforced by the little ones laughter, while other times she wouldn't appreciate it as much. Working on recall and off/leave it seems to be working well. Also had a few small set backs overshooting the distraction while proofing where she managed to bowl over a couple of the kids cousins. Some of them were a bit cautious for a bit, but over the last few visits the puppy appears to be settling and the kids have taken note and are back on good terms. Has been a busy few months!

The other thing we sometimes do is simply close the glass door. Easier to ignore her when she's not as loud, and she seems to get the idea that her noise further isolates her from us.

We typically feed our dog between 4pm and 6pm at the latest. We usually don't sit down for a meal until 6:30. I don't think it is the cause of the issues though. More so that we have usually been outside playing with the kids and dogs, pretty much right up to when we have dinner. Then everyone comes inside and she is left out. I could give her a kong to keep her busy, but we use them for times we are leaving her home alone, or when we have guests and eat outside. It could be that I need to come inside a bit sooner and let her relax before we start eating too. I think the important part is that she doesn't get her way through wimpering or barking.

We're not really having too many issues with the distractions, and are doing as you've said. Working with varying degrees of distraction while keeping her under threshold where she'll still listen and learn. If it's too much we either reduce the distraction or increase distance, but ideally we're reading her body language and marking the behaviour before it falls apart. I tend to post here on the more frustrating days where she's tested me and I need to vent. The main challenge she's doing at the moment is crying/barking to get our attention. Ie she is outside, we are inside having dinner. She wants to come in so sits at the door. IMO getting up from my meal to tell her to lay down is rewarding her behaviour. Cue-ing to be quiet is the same. I've taken the approach where we all continue discussing, eating, etc but no one makes eye contact with the dog. When she lays down quietly we mark and then drop her a reward and go back to eating again. I think it's the right approach, but like all training it will take time.

We have a cat here, and she is OK with him. The occasional bark because she wants to come inside and play with him, but it's never rewarded. The times they have been together she's more interested in his food bowl than the cat as a source of food. Cats on walks I have treated the way you have. Food > Cat. Same works for birds. She's very focussed and interested. Tends to point, at which I reward and we refocus elsewhere. Food > Bird. Dogs can be different. Her energy level shifts right up. She'll still listen and work for food but the drive is through the roof. Fast reactions to cue where typically she's pretty relaxed (slow). I tend to try and avoid rewarding for barking at all. An unfamiliar string of behaviour and focus will get big rewards. Then ask for more. If she barks we move and start over. I am mono-tone and not nervy or peppy by nature at all. I am probably pretty boring for her really, and I have to work to be exciting. I don't really try to be exciting though. I try to be consistent. I think it's developmental as some behaviours are strengthening, and the increases we've seen haven't been due to a lack of training or accidently rewarding something. They have come on at the same time she's increased chewing as well. The general barking I just use an interrupter. If she stops I follow with reward. She doesn't tend to go stupid barking uncontrollably and running away ignoring all cue's so again, it's redirecting.. but I don't want it to become a matter of she barks and I come to her to redirect. I'd rather nip it before it happens. But obviously smells/sights/sounds can sometimes be obvious to the dog well before they are to us.

I've hijacked my own thread and taken it off topic a bit. It appears we have hit either the 2nd fear period or adolescence. All was progressing really well, and still is mostly, but the last week has thrown some unforeseen behavioural challenges our way. Some whinging or barking to try and raise our attention. We've continued with ignoring the behaviour and marking and rewarding when she stops and lays down. It doesn't take too long for her to work out what we're after, but she's definitely trying hard to see what she can get away with. Same sort of response to environmental changes. Dogs barking in the neighbourhood will raise her, and get her acting a bit more territorial and chiming in. I've just been calling her back and acknowledging that something is out there but it's not a problem. Rewarding when she returns and settles. Sometimes asking for some other behaviours to try and make sure she doesn't associate the reward with the barking. Same has carried over into our walks. She has always been a bit reactive on leash, wanting to pull and/or bark. Not really lunging or over the top out of control. Have been working hard to at threshold to reward calm behaviour and was making some big improvements. Seems to be a bit touch and go last couple days. Sometimes she'll be happy to play our games and let them pass. Other times she feels the need to speak up. I'm in two minds to try and work through it, and continue the daily walks and exposure, or perhaps I should just shelter her for a week or two and limit opportunity to continue learning the undesirable behaviours. Or could it be an extinction burst, where we almost had a break through and she's giving it a final test??

I see your point, and I can see how the title of the thread could indicate that I put complete blame on the animal and none on myself. I guess the biggest different is that I also believe in harm minimisation, and actively was doing so. The dog had some frozen treats to work on while I was working. All spills were cleaned up immediately. All fluids kept in a container out of reach, and even as far as to put a lid on it. It was a lapse later in the day where I moved something and some residual leaked out of a radiator. I was also right onto it and in the process of cleaning the small spill as the dog licked it. It wasn't even as much a lap, as just a lick. That is probably why I fired back a bit. In saying that, I do need to learn to better manage the area as it has highlighted how quickly she can get into something. The same can happen anywhere, anytime though, and it wouldn't be hard for her to do similar or worse when out on a walk. She is a silly dog though too! There's no denying that! They all are to a certain extent, as are we humans. It just varies in degrees of how much.

And for what it's worth I do agree with you. Silly on my behalf indeed. It probably won't be the last silly thing her or I do either.

Great input ish. The world is a dangerous place. Should I keep her bubble wrapped? It's not as if I left dangerous products laying around and a dog unsupervised. It was an accident, and from what I can tell I have owned that mistake, taken the appropriate action that a responsible owner would do, and shared the experience so others can also learn from it. I don't know what value you intend to bring with your comments. I take it you have never made a mistake in your life?

It was pretty frustrating because I was aware/on to it before it happened.. but it happened anyway! I also agree that anything below minimum fatal can still include damaging effects. She's still very much a puppy though, and learning more by the day.

I over reacted a bit. Instincts said it was a minimal quantity, google said get your pet to the vet right away. Science says minimum lethal dosage is 4.4ml/kg of body mass. Given that it was a mixed coolant and not pure ethylene glycol we'll assume approx. 50% dilution. 16kg dog, and even erring on the cautious side of stronger dilution and 4ml/kg she'd still need to consume 100ml of fluid. Regardless, any of it that was brought back up vs absorbed can only be a good thing. This dog is a scavenger when it comes to edibles. Only thing I've seen her willingly spit out was raw broccoli.

Decided to lick up a very small coolant spill today in the shed! I was mindful the whole day and knew I'd have some leakage while working on some machinery. End of the day, moved something around a little coolant came out. In the time I told her to leave it while cleaning it, her nose had already hit it. Very small amount.. but regardless off to the vet she went for a purge, and some charcoal tablets. I'm sure due to the quantity she'd have been fine, but better safe than sorry. This dog will eat anything. She tried to eat her own vomit after the purge, and then willingly ate the 5 x activated charcoal tablets out of the hand. She's a fruitloop! In other news, its a full moon and the other kids are going mental too! Been a tiring afternoon.

I'll probably ride it out I think managing as I have been. It's likely just the current weather which is drawing the worms out of the soil. It's only really been the last week that it's become an issue.

Thanks for the reply, and that is what we have been doing. As above, in training scenarios she is right on. If it's a single item on a walk that I can see clearly I can redirect and reward. The issue here is that the earthworms are everywhere.. It's not one to two. Standing stationary you can look around and easily count them. It's from the moment we walk out the driveway, and scattered all around the place. For me to remove her from them, I would have to stop walking her... however her loose leash walking is good in the yard and needs to be generalised out and about. Also actively working on impulse control to other people, dogs and cats in public spaces. It's not so much that she is unable to be walked due to the distractions.. honestly she does great, but every now and then she'll get a taste for them, and she doesn't even need to try and pull to get her fix. Moving her on doesn't work because moving away from the distraction just moves you towards more. After writing this, I think my best method may be that once she's off task and seeking worms to try and bring her focus back on me. Play some targetting games, look etc and then once reset maybe try again. I have been doing this too, but due to the quantity it's never too long before she spots another one and sucks it up before I even have a chance to try and give a cue or block the behaviour. The only thing I can try is a quick leash correction to move her head back from the food source.

I hear you and I agree. I don't often say leave it, unless if I am almost certain I can ensure she follows cue. We stop at particular worms and I train leave it as you would normally. She's bang on when we do that! As she is with normal food. She understands I have requested she leaves this particular thing. She focusses at me awaiting further instruction. If it were treats I'd often release her to have it though, so there is some variance in that we are exchanging worms for treats and moving on. It's more that she may see an opportunity and take it. One worm!! Yum! I haven't been quick enough to enforce a leave it, and she's got the taste for them and then once she's looking she realises how many more there are ripe for the picking. I can break her out with a sit. And I can get her moving along again with positive rewards and not necessarily a formal heel, but a focussed closer walk. But sooner or later she's ready to extend the lease some more and get back to walking and sniffing and enjoying herself, and not much longer until she's found another source of protein!! I don't see it as a huge issue, and it doesn't really impede our ability to go for a walk, but it's similar to when she catches the scent of another dog etc. She wants to go and see and investigate, and with that I would ask for behaviours and then allow the go sniff building a behaviour which self rewards on my terms. With the worms she's building the value but I don't really want her eating whatever she finds in the gutter. Fww, she is very food motivated. The only thing I've seen her not eat is a piece of raw broccoli, but she still tried a few times! I think it's a combination of how I distribute the treats through the walk, and lack of generalisation. I toss them on the ground to keep her moving and break her from getting infront too often. This encourages her to both follow visually, by nose, and pick them up off the ground. I could move to rewarding from the hand, but it's not as natural feeling and she often will bump her teeth against my hand when taking them (only due to the forward movement, not by snatching). With the generalisation she doesn't get that leave this worm means leave all the worms. And with her leave it on items that aren't food Ie playing with things she shouldn't in the shed etc she thinks leave it means OK! I've left it.. 3 seconds later! I must be allowed to have it now! So really a significant difference between a formal leave it, and one applied in every day life, with greater distractions and less intent focus. As you'd expect with a 7 month old dog. More work required.

No suggestions? She continues to gutter scavenge and there is little I can do to stop it when it happens. She values these worms a lot. IE there could be another dog behind a fence barking at her, me on the other side with treats, and her preference will be to eat the worms out of the gutter! Live moving ones don't interest her as much as dead dried ones. I tend to walk her before breakfast/dinner to try and keep her food motivation up.. Perhaps that is also driving the scavenging up. Might try feeding a little before leaving for a stroll and see if she's more content.