Erny

Hey!! That's not far off one of my fav numbers (23) .

Excellent, Mackiemad and Casster17 . I'm also gratified to hear from another source who I've been communicating with to ensure awareness, that another Newspaper has taken up the story and is expected to publish soon. Well done to that person and everyone else who has taken it upon themselves to write in and voice now, along with the others of us who have also done so. This is our Labor Government at *work*. It's election year.

It's something that can only be answered by the dog owner. Sometimes it is a sub-conscious thing so it helps to raise it as a possibility. They then do their own questioning of themselves, as you did, Corvus. Only they really know the real answer and can decide whether they will admit to it or not. Although sometimes the evidence is pretty clear, by the way they interact with their dog even though they've been informed of the mis-message that interaction might be giving to the dog.

*bump* for any extra people who write in .

Hi Mackiemad. Below is a link to all the contact info for the MLA's (Victoria) Members of Legislative Assembly Contact List In letters, ask direct questions, if you can. At least that way you would have a reasonable reason as to why you should be able to expect a response. I've put it up before, but not sure how long ago in this thread, but below is a copy of one of the letters I sent in which asked questions. This was before the "Lawyers for Animals" response was known to me, but I was pleased to see that their response mirrored my concerns, points and questions as well. One of the points that I remember I did not raise but which LFA have and which I think has an importance is that the proposed Bill is mis-titled. It is misleading in that it has people thinking the laws don't and won't affect them because they do not own a "Dangerous Dog" (as defined by the law). This proposed Bill is about, can and will affect ALL dogs. But because of the title description, public interest which potentially would have been given, will not be. Some of the formatting is lost due to the copy/paste but I think it remains relatively clear.

No, it wasn't. I just got off the phone from Parliament House to enquire, as I was a bit puzzled about a couple of things, and I was informally informed that the proposed Bill will NOT be debated this week. I was concerned that the Govt could choose to not debate the proposed Bill, but to simply put it to a Vote. If this occurred, the proposed Bill would probably be passed, simply because the Government have the numbers. (But that's when it would go to Upper House, where the numbers of Govt and Opposition are more even.) I was informally informed (with 99.9% confidence) that the proposed Bill WILL be debated and will NOT just go to the Vote, simply because of the amount of emails and letters the Government have been receiving from us public . So it goes to show that our letters and emails ARE having an effect. Keep them up, people - it's not a waste of time and we need them more now than ever. Ok - back to the main point of this post. The proposed Bill was not debated this week and by all accounts it is not going to be debated this week. Which means that it won't be debated until at the earliest, the next sitting week, which commences 22nd June. So we have even more time to keep up with the emails/letters. The proposed Bill might go through regardless, because of Government numbers outweighing opposition. I'm informed that the individuals who make up the Government are not likely to debate or vote against a Bill proposed by one of their own (sheep ). Apparently it is put to the vote by the party at Corcus (sp?) level before it is put up. Only thing is that at that stage, they haven't received all our emails/letters and don't have the advantage of having it clearly pointed out how faulty their proposed laws are. For me, it is a clear waste of taxes and our time and effort. But hey ..... that seems to be the way of it, with Government. The thing is, I still think that keeping up the emails/letters - demanding answers and responses to our emails/letters already sent (especially, but not only, from those in Labor) are very worthwhile at this stage. Because it shows us number strong. Because it just might be enough to weaken their resolve due to the fact we are raising very valid points which reveal how erroneous the laws within their proposed Bill are. The following is a first draft of a follow-up letter which I intend to send, yet again, to EVERY single Member of Legislative Assembly :

I tend to agree, Aussie3.

That'd be worth doing just for the sake of making a statement. Good idea for a rally .

Thanks Mackiemad - and good for you for your efforts :D . I think my issue with the Parliamentary Live Broadcast is that it needs Java. I'm not computer savvy, but I don't think I have it loaded to this computer, so I'm trying to load it now and see what happens. If all of a sudden you find I'm not on DOL, you know I've done something wrong!!! ETA: Seems to be working now, so I guess I did the right thing (phew). Except they're at lunch, so there's no broadcast until they come back in at 2pm.

I'm having problems with the live broadcast link. You need to "accept terms and conditions" before the player will load to connect you with Parliament. I accept "terms and conditions" but every time I click the button for Legislative Assembly, it keeps telling me the same message about accepting terms and conditions first. Don't know if anyone else is experiencing that problem.

No news. Although it is in the "Orders of the Day" list for today, I'm informed it isn't in the "list of Government Business", which means it still might not be heard today or even this week. I don't know why or how Govt process works, so I can't explain it. But the point is that we have more time. I think a good idea would be for all those who have written in, if your letters ask questions or even if you just haven't received acknowledgement, re-issue another email to all the MLA's and ask for their acknowledgement and response. That's what I'll be doing. For all those who haven't written in, please don't turn your back on this. I wouldn't wish it on anyone's dog, but it could just be yours that gets caught under one or more of the laws under this Bill, and then you'll be seeking help and support to try to fight it and save your dog - if it is not already too late by that stage. So, as drudgingly boring as it might seem; as hard as it might be to scrounge an hour or less out of your very busy lives, please help us all help ourselves and the jolly lot of us, and do something now. From an interested and concerned dog-owner, I've received advice that you can now view Parliamentary debates live via your website (thanks for that info - you know who you are .... didn't want to dob you in incase you preferred it that way). I would like to catch this one, when it is debated - nature of my work takes me out and about though, so I don't know if the timing will be such that I'll be able to. Not knowing exactly when it will be debated makes it awkward as well. Apparently Govt have spent much money setting this up, but haven't publicised the fact that it is available, that much if at all. But for those who would like to and can glance in, the link to Parliamentary live broadcast is below. May be handy to have a few cans of red bull lined up in front of you though. Live Broadcast - Parliament of Victoria

Hi :D A&J, and thank you for that 'tip' Mackiemad. My problem might be that the nature of my job (dog training/behaviour) takes me away from the telephone and being able to ring in, depending on the timing. But I think it would be good to ask questions. And there is a possibility that there still will be some time. Tracking the Parliamentary agenda for when the debate is likely. Take it as tomorrow, but there may be an update and a change to this. So please, people, don't quit now. I know this is becoming tedious. I think that might be in part what they could be relying on. Stay alive. ;) You're doing good . But those that haven't - please write. ;)

Ok - Seems this proposed Bill is listed for debate tomorrow (Tuesday 8th June) and is the second item on the list, so there's a good chance it will be debated as scheduled, I think. Anyone else got a letter to email in? NOW is the time to do it - TONIGHT so that it is sitting in the "inbox" of the MLAs' emails when they open up tomorrow morning. LAST CHANCE for you to help yourself and your dog. The laws in this Bill, if passed, affect ALL dogs ALL breeds.

*bump* I will scout around to see what item we are on the debate list in Parliament, if it wasn't already debated today. I've been out all day, so haven't had a chance to catch up.

NINETEEN !!! to whoever was the nineteenth .

I do similar with my back door (not necessarily when I'm out). I've been thinking of getting those heavy plastic strip things (like fish and chip shops have) as I thought that might help to keep the warmth in and a bit of the cold out. Maybe it would work for your set up too? Of course, there's always the doggy door option. I'm not going for that simply because I don't want a hole cut into my solid wood door. I haven't coated my boy yet, but I've had no need to leave him locked out of my home on the really cold days. He's not quite used to being coated (I didn't coat him sooner for the same reason as you Dyzney) and I wouldn't trust him being left alone with it on. I put it on him the other day, and he didn't think he could move. For a minute I was wondering why he was stood stock still in the family room, even though I was wandering around the place. I did used to coat my previous girl (bhcs) although there was one time when I came home to find that she'd managed to get her front leg caught up in and through the neck. She couldn't stand or walk in it. Don't know how long she'd been like that. But she was the sort of dog who would just wait until you came home, rather than panic about it. She loved the warmth from her coat, so even after that I did still coat her on the cold days when I had to leave (and even when I didn't).

Yes - it's disappointing, I admit, Echo. I receive more PM's from Victorians asking for help with their doggies in various issues, than what we've received by way of response here. So I would have thought if there's time enough to write about that (and to which I've gladly responded and attempted to assist), there'd be time enough to write something to Govt. on something so important as this, and at a time when we all need each others' help. But that's not to take it away from those 18 (haven't reached 23 yet - that might be wishful thinking) who have done something. Something to help all Victorian Dog-Owners. Something to help themselves. And to those people, I say and .

Only need 5 more to make it to my other favourite number *23*. Can we do it?

It is one and a half hours until tomorrow (Monday) ..... and the time to write those letters. With the short template suggestion I've given, it won't take too much time for those who don't support the proposed Bill to be able to have their say and know that they were a part of helping to circumvent more erroneous laws being brought into this State.

*bump* Because, assuming the debate goes ahead this week, getting emails in tomorrow is the best, not to suggest they shouldn't continue through until the Bill has been debated.

I could quote 3 cases of this type of attitude (including this one) all occurring recently (different health issues). Danged annoying. Frightfully wrong.

I think you'll find that what he is suggesting in that thread is to consult with a qualified trainer (and I think he means trainer/behaviourist) first, before that OP runs the gauntlet with a Vet/Behaviourist and the drug trip.

A short/summarised update for anyone who might be interested. Have worked through : Hives Butt blisters Interdigital Cysts Ear issues (still keeping an eye on this) Sloppy poop and irregular bowel motions Have been clear of hives for quite some time. A small outbreak (only about 4 or 5 hives at his flank) about a month ago but they disappeared on their own without intervention, within a few days. Interdigital cysts have subsided/disappeared. Ear issues - as above, I still keep an eye out on this. Where the initial ear drop treatment (natural based) was a twice a day occurrence, I now treat one ear once a week. Otherwise it's just a matter of keeping them clean. The sloppy poop has been occurring since late March. Part of the problem has been that he went off most if not all raw foods and the only thing he'd eat was cooked Chicken. But the sloppy poop did start back when he was still eating raw chicken. Went off vegies and only sometimes will eat a chicken carcass; chicken wing; or any other type of bone (which of course, has to be raw). So it was hard to provide him with fibre or any sort of roughage. Managed a bit of cooked pumpkin every now and again, but that didn't make much if any difference. Been on natural meds via the naturopath for the sloppy poop. Pulled him off all other holistic meds/powders except for his vitamin supplement, which he continues to receive daily. Obviously continuous sloppy poop is a big concern for all sorts of reasons. Just recently found he didn't mind red kidney beans. Have been adding these and also lentils (which is yet another experimental addition) to his cooked chicken. For the past 3 days we have had regular stools that one can now identify on the lawn (instead of it seeping in amongst the blades of grass :D), and are a much better (less sinister) looking colour. I'm pleased for my dog. I'm also pleased for me - poop pick-up is so much easier and I'm not left with blackish marks on the lawn where I've had to scrape poop up, rather than pick-up! Also, where before he was eating 2kgs of chicken leg fillet per day, I notice that he's not wanting as much now. I'm feeding him 1.5kgs chicken per day at the moment and watching his weight doesn't drop away, as he is of lean frame. I don't think it has (I don't get to weigh him frequently and go much on what I see - although sometimes that is hard when you look at your dog so much, so often) but I'll keep an eye out. I have also been wanting to have a worm burden count done, but his poop was hardly pick-up-able until recently. Now can get that done. Yay for us. Hope it lasts and that we can continue avoiding any necessity for chemically based drug administration.

Thanks for the input, Staranais. I'm glad to read that we in fact should not dismiss the fact that behavioural responses and our interpretations of them are potentially as misunderstood as the presentation of that report might have us believe. I rely a lot on behaviour responses and body language and always will, although not to the exclusion of other subtleties as well. Oh hey!! It's that time of the year again for you! Good luck and happy studying, Star :D.