Erny

At PK9's training grounds in Lyndhurst (3klms north of KCC Park). We're catering for those who wish to train for trialling and also for those who just want to do it for fun's sake. Will most likely also be opening it up for people who are already trialling and who are in the higher levels to be able to just practice their runs.

If you are teaching 2o2o then they learn to touch a spot, which is actually off the contact. You use a target plate to teach that, fade that so they touch the grass. Running contacts is also I think more about a spot then colour. People will be pleased to know that it is NOT I who is the agility instructor, . I know a bit about it and have done some of it myself (with Kal, my avatar girl, bless her cotton socks) but that was years ago and so much in the training/teaching of agility has advanced since then.

What's the world coming to? I know. I'll have to win Tatts and start my own club with all pink and purple equipment. It will match my gazebo. ;) My A frame is due for a recoat and now I'm really tempted to make it pink Pale pink with hot pink contacts And with flower-power prints elsewhere. Noice :D .

Thanks for the link, Kavik. But some of the colouring of the equipment may well be white and I figured the yellow as a contact wouldn't stand out that much under flood lights. I'm not sure ..... only surmising.

I thought about that. Do you think the dogs learn that it is about touching the colour, or do you think they learn it's about touching a certain spot (ie taking distance into account from their pov)? Actually, I was thinking about purple, but was informed the colour of the contact doesn't make that much of a difference to the dogs ..... that it was more for the humans. Purple is close to pink, sort of .

Thanks for that. I haven't decided yet regards to colours. I was going to make the 'contact' colour, red. I figured that when we're running at night times, the red contrast to a light colour would show up easier under the flood lights. I did visualise different pieces of equipment being painted in Pro-K9's colours (teal/green; gold; white ..... but not the black, of course), but whilst I think that'd look great, I hate painting and I think the idea might have been nice, but whether I could be bothered is another matter. Having to buy different coloured paints as well will probably work out more expensive. Have ordered a tunnel in green and gold. Just need to get a cloth tunnel (including the barrel/44 gallon drum) and some sand/weight bags to secure the flexi tunnel and we'll be about done. .... it's getting to that exciting stage (will be glad once the painting is behind me ..... need some nice weather for that). ..... no fair!! Some clubs are just sooooooo harsh! Also, would be cheaper/easier to re-paint than replace the rubber I would expect.

Oh crap . Just because the dog didn't respond to cortisone? No specialist? No nothing else? That is so incredibly sad. I hope the dog forgives us.

Thanks Jess. Appreciate the info. I'll stop in at Bunnings and see what gives there. I'm all for 'easy' but sometimes putting in the ol' elbow grease (ie DIY) helps to save a good dollar or two. I'd imagine you wouldn't be able to mix too much sand, or it would cause the paint to crumble and come away? LOL .... I am sure I'll find out one way or the other by some experimentation. I think I know what you mean by the "chipped rubber". Can't remember where I've seen/felt it, but I agree, it was a bit too much on the sharp side for my liking. That's if I'm thinking of the same stuff.

Pro-K9 is soon to open its Agility "arm". Our equipment is being built and construction is not far off completion. The next step will be painting it. I know we need to have good grip to the equipment surfaces and over the years I've heard some people say they include sand in the paint. But I'm not sure what the 'recipe' would be for that (ie how much sand to paint ratio) nor even if that's the best thing to do. Is there special paint to get? Any tips, help, advice, comments etc. appreciated . Cheers Erny

That's the one I was thinking of. Thanks . Is this better/more effective than Capstar? But question : The person I was speaking with has a friend in QLD with two dogs. She also has a flea infestation and the Advantix spot-on she's been using isn't working for one dog in particular, who is a Border Collie (bigger coat than her other dog). She thinks the flea infestation is coming from the soil under her home and she wasn't sure the best way to treat that. She'll be blocking the dogs so they can't venture under there, but wants to eradicate the fleas from the ground. Is this a job for a pest controller person? Any experience? I think everyone here knows that I don't like using chemicals around dogs, but when there is a 'situation' then sometimes it is the better option. If she can knock off the fleas from under the house (assuming that's where they are breeding) then she might not have to use the drugs as much on her dogs.

As per title can someone jump on and remind me? Thanks in advance. Erny

Yes I have. I'd still only buy from a registered breeder. But I no longer assume that being registered, or being successful in the show ring, by itself means much in terms of ongoing interest in the health of their stock. Not sure what the answer is but I think initiatives like the Master Dog Breeders Association is a start, and personal recommendations as to who to buy a puppy from are also important. I'm in the same boat and have the same thoughts as Diva.

No one here, was brought up in a meeting I was at, one of the ladies said she calls them "training collars" now because thats what they are, since then I've heard it used a few times. No one in the class had a martingale or prong collar, just check chains but they are being referred to as "training collar". Yes - a check chain IS a training collar. But it's not a type specific name, if you know what I mean. If there were 3 check chains and a flat collar on a table and I asked you to "grab a training collar from the table" you would probably know what I meant (assuming you have some trainer knowledge). But if there were 3 training collars on the table all of a different type, you wouldn't know which one I meant for you to pick up. If the group who ran the meeting are getting into the habit of referring to "training collar" to specifically mean "check chain" (as opposed to any other form of training collar) then IMO they are wrong and it will lead to confusion. If you're a part of this group (as you went to their meeting?) it wouldn't hurt to have them specify what they really mean when they say "training collar" so that you may clarify WHICH type of training collar they're referring to. But if the whole group had check chains, and assuming the context was correct, then their reference to "training collar" and what sort they meant may well have been pretty obvious.

Hi HR :D I actually don't know why we seek for these things to be so "ordered" for the same reason that I don't comprehend why certain training methodologies are vetoed by some. To me it is about having an open mind and to knowing/understanding that each training item has a different effect on different dogs, correcting in different ways. Just as different methodologies suit some dogs and not others. Are people looking for some sort of "scale" so they can measure by "chart" which method and/or which training tool they should or shouldn't use? There are some dogs I've worked with that I would not have its owners working it in a check chain. I could say the same for other dogs and other training/management tools. This is why I do not get the "ban it/mustn't use it" mentality.

MM .... not directing this at you, but just using the opportunity of what you've said here (saves me back-tracking through other posts). Is it fact that the dog feels a sensation of choking when a correction is given? How do we know that? How do we know that the sensation it perceives is one of discomfort to the nociceptors in the skin and that the sensation goes no further than that because the dog has responded as a result of the check or correction? I ask you, MM, without meaning to challenge but just wondering if you've picked up what others have said and only presume .... what makes your dog's response indicate that there is an "obviously very quick feeling of choking"? Where's the fact in what's been said about this, in so far as a quick correction being applied? This thread is meandering now a bit, MM, but I think from the general responses earlier you would know that there are a number of us who do not feel, from the description of what you do, how you do it and why, that you are being cruel. Not everyone will agree, that's a certainty, but if your dog is unharmed and the correction serves to remedy the behaviour (behaviour which is unacceptable and can become dangerous if it escalates) to the point where the corrections are no longer necessary, then in my opinion and obviously in the opinion of others, you are not being cruel.

I've expressed the reason for my objection to the chains being called "chokers" and I believe my objection is a valid one. Observation : Notice that the training collars that are made of metal seem to carry names that are 'harsh', yet training tools made of webbing have 'nice' names. Like some "no-pull harnesses" (why not "pinch harness"?); martingales; head-collars (generic) Gentle Leaders and Halti's (specific); etc. :D I am not keen on the "higher/lower risk" labels that has been suggested that the different training tools could be pigeon-holed as, simply for the fact that there are so many variables surrounding the handler, the dog and the circumstances. Eg. A fast lunging dog in a head-collar might prove the head-collar to be the "higher risk" tool. A dog that isn't a lunger in a check chain might prove the check chain as a higher risk tool than a head-collar. And so on.

I thought the same thing, Clyde. The dogs that I have seen professionally trained for protection and security work exhibit a lot more self-control than what I saw in Tank. At one stage I wondered if the tight lead was some sort of trained signal to the dog to behave as it was, to make it look as though the officer might not be able to control him, and make it all the more scarey to the villains. I could only think that, because I thought the dog's training would surely have been better than what it appeared to be. I have seen this with some of the dogs in training that I have watched though, come to think of it.

Anyone who who suggests checking a dog on a chain doesn't rely on the dog's reaction to having something rapidly tightened around its neck. But that's what I'm not 'getting'. Who is suggesting that? Not even sure what "garottes" are. Have been flat out, so didn't really sink in to that one.

A flat buckle collar doesn't tighten, and even a flat martingale generally spreads the pressure over a wider area. While I have seen plenty of flat collars used abusively, if we are talking about the risk inherent in the tool, the risk is, IMO, higher with a chain collar than a flat collar. Like Aidan I'm not saying I go around calling them Tools of Death , I've shown dogs on chains collars before. I just don't think it pays to bullshit oneself about why a tool works - be it a halti or a chain or whatever. Who's "bulls**tting" about anything? I think the discussions getting down to splitting hairs and going well beyond the necessary, but the point being that it has been said that "choker" is not an incorrect name because it gives the sensation of choking. Flat collars can give the sensation of choking too (whether they tighten or not) when a dog pulls into them, but we don't call them "chokers". That was the point of it. I still don't like the name "choker" because it makes people think that's how the tool is supposed to work. ie Dog pulls; chain tightens and chokes the dog; dog eases back. And I'm sure we ALL know that doesn't work.

Hi Rebecca. I will see if the person who owns the dog will be able to come into DOL and post here, or PM you. If not, I'll try to ascertain some more info and will post again with that.

That's just it - they don't. But they conjure up their own image of a collar with savage spikes on mention of the name "prong" collar, before they've even begun to hear what they are really like and how they work. That's my point.

It did seem like one but glad you've clarified it wasn't intentional. Perhaps you are thinking about it a-about? Could be the OP was feeling bad for the fact she was using a tool she knew as a "Choke Collar". I know that saying out loud to people that you've used a "prong collar" can make you feel guilty just by association to the rotten name it was given ie "prong". People who don't know what it is imagine pointy spikes designed to point straight in and pierce and puncture the dog. And you can feel judged, just because of the descriptive name choice. You've immediately assumed that the person who suggested to think of the "Choke collar" as a "correction chain" (or "check chain" .... can't remember which was suggested) was so the OP could hide behind the name. Whereas the suggestion might have been made to change the OP's perception of it to something less than the 'evil' the word "choke" represents and to relieve herself of guilt where guilt isn't necessary. After all, the chain is not about "choke" at all. I'd feel guilty if people thought I went around "choking" dogs.

I've used check chains as "fail safes" with head collars too. But in essence, they are a training collar, as are martingales.

Unless a person is speaking generically, I've never heard a check chain specifically referred to as a "training collar" when in general conversation. I could say to you a check chain is a training collar. Or I could point to a check chain and say it is a training collar, but who would say (eg) "put a training collar on your dog" ? If anyone said that it certainly wouldn't be clear what was specifically intended. A martingale is a training collar. A pinch collar is a training collar. Who have you heard that from, Jeanne? I don't remember reading it hear, not as a specific label for the check chain .

There seems to be a lot of shows and ads that are using dogs as part of the 'attraction'. Good to see them being used as a highlight rather than a lowlight (ie in the media).