Erny

Doglova - really sorry to hear about your pup's accident. I can't see how you really could have prevented it happening, as dogs/pups will play. As for socialisation - seeing as she's so young I agree that it would be a concern to keep her isolated. Is it possible that you could take her to your dog school, but keep her safe and secure in your arms? Socialisation doesn't always have to be about dogs playing with dogs. It can just be about dogs being used to and comfortable in the presence of other dogs. And of course, socialisation is not just about other dogs either. Consider all the other worldly things in her environment that you might take for granted but that she needs to learn about. Hearing, seeing and smelling these sights and sounds would help considerably more than not. Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery for your pup.

Have you been to the Vet yet STITCH? Any news? Hope all is ok. I agree with others - I would have had him to the Vet too. Two CM's is a big wound and the fact that it is discharging would represent a big concern to me.

By the sounds of it, you've shown her quite clearly that if you don't have food in your hand, she won't be getting any. If I had a boss who made it so clear that I would only get paid for my work if he showed me the money in his hand, you can bet I'd pretty quickly stop working for him on the days/times when he wasn't waving the $$$ notes around. You started training by using the luring method, by the sounds of it, and then tried to wean off from luring. This is good, but it just sounds as though your weaning process needs a bit of help. Go back a step or two in your training. Lure your pup to the drop a few times, just to refresh memory and get a 'pattern' going. After these few repetitions, your lure hand will smell of the food. Use your lure hand in exactly the same way as you did when you lured (ie pretend as though you have a lure in your hand). As soon as she is in the drop position release her (I use a release command in my training - don't know if you do) and within half a second after you've given the release command, deliver a food treat. You can have the food treat in a pocket, a food treat pouch or on a dish very nearby (but out of her reach) at this stage. You have now begun to teach her that the food treat still happens even though it is not in your hand. At this stage of the game you are still food treating on a continuous schedule of reinforcement. When the drop is happening regularly and reliably, you can (and IMO should) then move to an intermittent schedule of reinforcement. Food treat/no food treat/FT/FT/NFT/FT/NFT/NFT/FT/FT/NFT/NFT/NFT .... if you get my drift. Once I have a dog at the point where the skill I have taught is happening well, I tend to randomise the reward he/she receives (eg. FT/game of tug) regardless of whether I'm on a continuous schedule of reinforcement or not. Hope that makes sense or that it is at least enough for you to get through and over this current hurdle. ETA: I should have read all the way through. Seems you've done the above and achieved success. Well done.

Devil's advocate here. My boy has digestive issues of some form or another and feeding him 7 or 8 cups of high grade quality dry food per day (IF he'll eat that) only barely increases his weight. (As an aside, we're working on trying to sort out the digestive issues, but that's another story which I'm sure many of you are familiar with through our 2 threads currently running.) The point of my post now is that I don't remember seeing a photo of the OP's dog which would indicate weight/condition and I know that if anyone began making suggestions that I'm feeding my boy too much it would not do him much good to listen to them. Any less than what I'm providing him would see him far more skeletal than what he already appears on his bad days. What the OP has posted as to how much food she feeds her dog does sound an awful lot of food and I guess because of my own current experiences my first thought is to wonder why it takes so much food to maintain healthy weight and condition. I also agree with others that the OP's diet for her dog sounds like a lot of cereal/filler and all else being well I think a balance of RMB's would be a good choice. But to the OP I ask if your dog is healthy and whether you feel maintaining his weight is or has been difficult? ETA: Also, whilst I note you said you noticed a drop in weight, don't rush to whack it all back on super fast. Steady is better and is much easier to monitor. Otherwise you could end up with the opposite issue and that is a dog that grew fat all of a sudden and then you'll be looking at trying to establish weight loss. I can't remember if you've written it, but how old is your dog?

Out of desperation (and lack of time to go hunting around - no pun intended) I've been purchasing roo mince from my local WHOLESALE butchers. They only now supply the human TOP grade roo ............... at between $13 - $15 per kilogram . Mandela's been eating a couple of kg per day over the last couple of days. And he had the audacity to turn it into black diarrhea!!! . And to add insult to injury, my investment in the food for him has paid dividends in the way of rotten farts.

Whilst I think we learn much off our own dogs I think it is dangerous to blinker to only learning off those experiences. Listening to and learning from the experiences of others and the situations they occurred in and under (and taking them into consideration when you work with your own dog) would widen your perspective and may prove to stand in good stead anytime in the future, for you and for your own dog.

Thanks guys. Your comments are heartening. I think the biggest issue are his digestive issues and I think the chiro was indicating that the problem with Mandela's leg - assuming it was cramp - relates back to that. I am very suspect that Mandela's system is not processing food properly. I have had long standing issues with body development with him, from day one of picking him up from the breeder.

Thank you. Piper - I agree. I don't get cramp often, but have had it where my calf has been sore for the next day. Haven't had it last for a week like you, though, so that must have been some cramp! . My boy's leg isn't quite right yet (whether it be cramp or not). I notice that his sits are a bit more 'careful'. I have only asked for one or two in the last few days and only ask for them now here and there to give me an idea of how he is feeling with it. Normally his sits are fast and full of vigour, but now he's being a bit 'careful' when it comes to the last part of the sit. Jigsaw - I think my chiro meant that apart from $$$ being spent, it would cost me a lot of energy, time and frustrating heartache. Perhaps he intended well enough, but I still don't agree with how he said it. Nor without knowing what was wrong, how he could be so definite about what he suggested I do to Mandela. Lab-Rat .... yeah. I am looking forward to what I hope will prove to give me some direction. If you refer also my other thread on Mandela which relates to eating/digestive disorders, you would well imagine that doing all this thinking and guessing is doing my head in. I pray for it to not be as bad and as finite as what the chiro seems to believe it to be. Thanks for the wishes, Huski.

DW .... sending you wishes of strength. Remember - you feel worse than he is feeling.

Thanks Kelpie-i. You're a good friend to have. You know I appreciate it. And also to Andisa, whose ear I've also bent in more than one direction and who is helping me out with collecting food that might be good for Mandela. And everyone else who has responded here. Phew. It's good to have people just to say things to. I'm not sure how I would have dealt with it last night if I hadn't had the outlet that I do. I'm feeling more positive right now. And decidedly angry at my chiro (I think as a normal process of coming out of the shock and upset that I felt previously). Whether he's right or wrong - he might be a "call a spade a spade's man" but there was no need to hit me with a sledge hammer. What I do like about him is his chiropractic methods - kind and gentle yet effective. I can't take that away from him and cannot deny the good work he does and has done for many, many dogs. But it strikes me as less than responsible to say "something's wrong, I don't know what, but put the dog down". Mandela, who didn't bode well on the roo mince I've been feeding for the last couple of days has returned to eating the EP Duck enthusiastically and I've fed him 3 cups .... one cup at a time. He's now full of vigour and ready to play. He's been tearing up and down my somewhat long carpeted hallway (leaving a trail of muddy footprints having come from outside ), chasing his ball (which he throws around himself). His leg seems fine - whether it is completely ok or just subtle enough that it's not completely noticeable is another matter. I am concentrating on digestive issues at the moment, but not to the complete absence of mind in relation to this more recent issue concerning his leg. It is possible that one is connected to the other, if the chiro is right in the sense that it was a cramp. I agree Kelpie-i ..... rock on Monday. ETA: I now remember that the chiro also told me that he thinks Mandela would be dead by now if it wasn't for the care I've been giving him.

Yeah - I felt my colour drain. I think the chiro noticed too. Me? Nerves of steel Erny? (At least I think that must be what the chiro thinks.) I'm ok. Better after a night's sleep. And, of course, the people here on DOL (and Kelpie-i, who I shared my distress with over the phone yesterday) make a difference, to be able to speak about it. So :rolleyes:. I can't wait for Monday. I hate waiting. I hope Bruce can offer something that will progress towards working out what is wrong with my boy. I do believe his issues (even this latest one, if it is cramps he'd suffered) transgress to him not being able to process food properly. Ok - will look out for your call. Would like some fresh roo tails (I presume they'll be cut up so I can fit them in the freezer?). I've had my boy on roo for the last few days, but he stopped pooing for nearly 2 days and now his stools are slimey and blackish green. <sigh>. I understand that 'green' colour points to liver. I just want to get through this next few days and be able to feed him something that's not too upsetting for him, until I get to see Bruce. Eagle Pack (who have been brilliant in their support but who are probably as frustrated as I am with what's been going on with my boy - I suspect it is not so much the food items that are the problem, but Mandela's inability to process) are rushing out some digestive enzymes for me to add, to see if that will help.

No - I meant it with the emphasis being on "faded". I am not very photogenic . So I'm happy with "faded". As Rivid knows, I want other photo's done too, where I feature (need to make sure it's a good hair and make-up day :rolleyes:) with Mandela. And also real action shots. Have struggled with getting Mandela looking his best and it being great weather and where Rivid and I can get together at the same time. Maybe some time soon though, would be good .

Sorry - I obviously didn't look properly and thought it was the shep that was out earlier, with similar coat colouring to a Malinois. My bad. :rolleyes: .... Any photo that has me faded out in the background adds value to it!! But I agree - I like that photo with the background as it is. It sets the scene as being one of an informal environment.

And they (as usual) are great photo's. Thanks for posting them up, Oonga. And thanks to your OH (Rivid Photography) for taking them . He's really captured some great 'personality' shots of the dogs in amongst the photo gallery he's put together. There are many that I very much like (particularly the shep showing his bottom teeth) but of course I am somewhat partial to the spunky Ridgy who was there :rolleyes:. I'd like to purchase that photo if I may and I've sent you an email regarding that. Erny

What's Ray's speciality?

Puggy .... On the night of Mandela's supposed 'injury' I too did much poking and probing and did originally think the sore point was in the groin. The chiro felt in that spot too and there was a bit of a 'yelp' from Mandela. The chiro didn't say anything about it other than to tell Mandela not to be a sook. And yes ..... he's a sook. But then, he's a RR .

Oonga - I had a Vet run bloods for "Total Body Function" back in early March. They all came back "unremarkable". I don't have the talent for reading test results very well ..... but it includes "Urea". That's for the kidney, isn't it? Not sure which one from the list relates to the liver.

Thanks all. I can't quite believe that Mandela has anything that seriously wrong with him that 'sending him away' is something that would even be contemplated at this point. He is so full of life and joy and has just done a spin of the yard (raking my somewhat damaged lawn) with his second favourite toy "Shrek". Miranda - thanks for the names. I doubt that I'll stop even at only a second opinion, somehow. God ..... he's not even 1 year old yet. I'm a bit numb at the moment, so the only thing I can plan ahead for is the consult I've already arranged with Bruce Syme. Some have suggested I speak to his breeder, but I just don't see the point.

I had already made an appointment to consult with Dr. Bruce Syme in Castlemaine ..... for this Monday (due to the suspected food intolerance issues we've been having, as per the other thread I have running).

Update : Back from the chiro. He couldn't find anything wrong and from the symptoms I described suggested he had possibly cramped. The thing being that he shouldn't be cramping. The chiro (who has seen him before) suggested something is wrong with him (and indicated with his hands the area of kidney/liver organs) but he doesn't know what. He put some pressure over the area and Mandela folded underneath it. The chiro said he has a build up of acid not unlike acidosis (sp). The chiro said (almost verbatum) "this dog is for the green dream" and not to keep going too long for my sake as well as for the dog's. I know I've been having trouble with Mandela and that he's been a concern (in one shape or form) since day one, but I'm in shock.

I'd be dosing my dog with Active Manuka Honey (get from health food store with the highest UMF possible) to help his immune system, just in case he has contracted CC.

Ummmmm .... we noticed this when at the Vet's this morning . Erny quickly adds that it was the dog that done it

Thanks PF. Am considering it - want to see what chiro says first. In the meantime, I'm busy adding years on to what would otherwise be my retirement age .

No. Seems that way. I guess if he can't even see evidence of injury it is pretty hard to make a judgment either way. I wish he could have seen Mandela on the day/night. He was most definitely in pain. I semi-feel as though I'm at risk of being considered a munch-housen (sp) mother . At least Shoemonster was there to see the initial soreness and heard him yelp. It got worse later that night. I'm following through with the chiro as a double check.

Ooohhh, dont tell me that persephone. I want to think that if it comes from the butcher it's killed humanely (if there is such a way) Provided the shooter knows his stuff, often a bullet to the roo whilst its out in the field is the more humane way. That's the sort of thing I want to know about too, SecretKei.