paul1

Lock her up until she tells where it is , 

True they have not been back , but they did explain well they said the dog was now 8 weeks olD , they said  they had owned him for a week and 5 days earlier they took him to the vet where he was diagnosed with a desease  5 days from a week  equals 2 days they owned him before they had to take him to a vet , now given it probably took a day or so to relize he was sick  , i,d say its fairly obvious they were sold a sick pup too young to leave its mother ,,, 

Course a follow up from them would be nice after all people took time to give them advice , good or bad 

2 hours ago, iwanttodie3070 said:

just ask the breeder

I am  , READ the the top   it says  quote    Question for Breeders     unquote 

Reading through the sale section , i noticed  a couple of dogs being advertized for sale under  breeders terms , What i took from that is the breeder has a good dog , temperment , pedigree , nice color whatever , and wants to carry on the line , but does,nt have the room , the time whatever to keep said dog  , so its offered out , you keep the dog  when we want you have to bring the dog to have pups ect ect , you all know the score . 

Now if that suits it should work out ok to both partys , but my question is  when you take the dog you realisticly have an agreement  its not your dog until xsaid pregnancy and pups , fair enough you know that ,

But  what about payment , what would be normal and fair , whever takes the dog is in fact just paying food and lodging for your dog babysitting until you want to breed , then running the risk if it dies in birth losing there new familly pet ,, So would most breeders expect  big dollars for the dog because they consider it a good dog ,  drop the price significantly because there going to get a litter ,, Or just be happy to give said dog to a loving home  knowing in return they can take back the new familly pet for a period to get a litter 

Just curious has to what most think is fair , I know to me i would never pay big dollars under that agreement  , but i would,nt want pups , i, personaly would desex my dog 

On 29/09/2021 at 6:29 AM, tdierikx said:

 

The fact that the pup could have contracted the illness whilst in the care of the new owner blurs that line unfortunately. Circumstances beyond the control of the breeder should not be their burden to bear. If you bought a new TV, then plugged it into a faulty power socket and it blew up, your chances of a refund would be reduced significantly, yes?

 

There is still the issue of a 100% diagnosis of any such disease in the pup. As I noted earlier, if the pup had been vaccinated within 10 days of that diagnosis, there is a high chance of a false positive test result for the diseases covered by the vaccine, as that vaccine actually uses a modified (inert) form of those diseases to initiate antibody response. Not to mention that the original poster hasn't really given an accurate disease name - could be referring to Parvovirus or Coronavirus, both of which present with similar symptoms, but can have different end results for the pup. Then there's the possibility that the pup has vaccinosis, which is an adverse reaction to the vaccine where a pup can get a bit sick for a few days to a week, then be fine. Compound being given a vaccination with worming on the same day, and you can see pups getting a bit sick from the experience more likely.

 

Alternately, the pup may also just be suffering from a growth spurt that has put it off it's food... or a change in diet that has caused a tummy upset reaction... or a combination of all the possibilities. All of which are well beyond the control of the breeder, so they can't necessarily be held to account for the problem.

 

Anyways, until the original poster comes back with an update, we are all in the dark here as to what was/is actually going on.

 

T.

And i,m sure many breeders paticualy  unscroupulous ones will agree wholeheartedly  with you and the scenarios you put forward ,,, However i,m sure that theres many,,  paticulary good honest breeders who would be alarmed , upset , and want to get to the bottom of why there dog got sick within 2 days of leaving home  was took to the vet and diagnosed with a desease  all in two days  , and i,m sure that these honest breeders would give a full refund or a healthy pup ,,, course  with 2 days  and a note from a vet , i doubt any civil crt would really take the part of any breeder trying to get out of there civil and moral duty ,, ,, would be interested to hear from breeders on here has to what they would  do or consider the right thing to do 

On 27/09/2021 at 3:05 PM, Lhok said:

$8000 sounds pretty cheap to me currently haha, but that's only because I am looking at importing a new breed to Aus at which the starting cost is roughly to set me back around $15,000 for one dog and depending on the puppy temperament it could end up being a male so I would have to look at importing another pup from lines that would complement my first pup if that was to happen I would be in the red close to around $28,000-30,000 before I even bred a litter. 

I'm not made of money either and importing dogs isn't for the faint of heart, however I think since I have been looking into the breed for close to 11 years now its now or never. 

 

--Lhok

Suppose that is something you would really really have to do your homework on ,  Its akin to statring up any  buisness . know what your doing or take a chance , If you brought in  a new breed , would it be popular , would you sell the pups ,  30 grand for two pups is a lot of money and i suppose a big chance ,   suppose you have a lot of homework to do ,  and decide if its a  lifestyle thing or a buisness

Maybee so ,, but if i buy a new car or tv , and it blows up after a few days ,  i want a replacement or a full refund .. Price of dogs is astronomical ,  in the other posts breedes are defending themselves left right and centre over the costs of pups ,  being so high because of the cost of breeding , , this too me is another costs , replacing faulty products  , and at the prices charged   after a week    the pup can be classed as faullty , no amaount of smooth talking  and blaming  incubation periods for the desease to worm out of a refund would convince me ,,  in there shoes ,  facts would be facts , i bought a dog , within 5-7 days  it was at the vet diagnosed sick , and  still sick , i would want a refund plus costs of the vet ,

Whats more if it was a reputable breeder , they would gladly take it back and reimburse  or so i would imagine ... Course if i  had the dog for 3 months thats different ,, but sick in a few days , Naaw refund

QUOTE

we took him to vets  5 days ago as he was not eating and very lethargic! turned out he had canine carnivorous! his still not himself and not really eating!

but its the strange noises he makes if u touch him  or whilst lying there awake/ askeep! he seems to bark lots too! he is only 8 weeks old, we have had him only for a week!

UNQUOTE

Defo in this case  buy the dog 2 days later   at the vet  diagnosed with an illness ,  5 days later , he's still sick . on top f that , he's now 8 weeks , means he left the mother too young at 7 weeks ,,, TAKE HIM BACK  GET YOUR MONEY BACK

Whats this coronavirus , is it serious , if it  was me at 8 weeks and sick , i,d be getting a letter of the vet and taking it back to the breeder, especiellyif you paid thousands 

Just like children really  they will eat when there hungry , .... set times are what we adults generally inflict .. my little dog  puts his nose up at food , will not eat   so i take it away  5-6 hrs later put it down he devours it

52 minutes ago, tdierikx said:

@paul1... it's a simple case of supply and demand... demand for puppies rose drastically when we started going into all the lockdowns... maybe if you wait a year or two, prices may normalise again.

 

T.

The market will always dictate , people will pay what they can afford and probably no more ,,, But for me the price of a dog is'nt an issue .  30 plus years ago i paid $800 for a GSD  which i knew could not be shown , apparantly  the breeder told me  its long haired and its too big  , ,, but heh i did'nt care i bought it because it was the biggest , bmost boisterous pup there , it also found me , once it started biting  or rather mouthing my feet and latched on to my jeans   , that was it   cost did'nt come into it he was mine ,,, but i did get papers he was on mains regitrar , granted laws have changed now ..  I've paid out big money for  numerous dogs , i personaly always believed in going to a breeder ,  if there bred right they should resemble what the breed is known for  and if you pay big money you should and are entitled to a good example of the breed ,, so the money is imaterial , providing its fair , .

My problem with finding a dog at the moment is not money its  the right dog  i have a little dog  and its a great dog  but i want a mate ,,for him , I would prefer a fully grown dog  that needs a good home ,,, already housetrained , and past the  ripping your house to bits stage LOL   also has to be good with other dogs ,,, looking at dogs from breeders the adult housetrained seems to be the hard part ,, understandable if you have 5 -6 big mastiffs , rottys ,whatever pretty hard to let them all live in the house

I really don't think the price of a dog is the issue when your buying  quality ,,, If i wanted to buy the crofts  dog show winner or its  offspring , i suppose  i would have to pay huge amounts  ,, breeders being compensated for there time  is not an issue ,, if they feel there dogs are worth more because there a better breeder  and have better dogs than the bloke  up the rd ,  well fair enough let it reflect in the price  , and the market will dictate ,, people doing there homework will decide for themselves wether to pay for the dog from the real quality breeder of champions , or Kate up the road , with a real dog of a dog  in  the sence of the word who breeds  with her  mate  with another bad example of the breed , and then lay claim to be breeders just because there registered with an organization ,,, there wants and there pockets will decide ,

 I think the problem arises  when  there is no stock so to speak  which then enables byb  and bad breeders to command the top dollar regardless off the quality , I've noticed mastiffs are becoming popular again ,   i speak on the dog beach to many owners , who all say i got him /she from a breeder , and there not full mastiffs usually cross   with bull mastiff and neo mastiff or that french one thrown in , the lack of stock is enabling these so called breeders of mongrels to  charge the same or similar money  to the proper respectable breeders who really do have the breeds and dogs interest at heart .

I've never bred a dog and never shown a dog , so i'm just an outsider looking in  on the industry , and i choose the word industry very carefully because thats what it is  or has become ,  , I think the problem  irises and can be fixed with this ltd papers rubbish ,,, I've enquired  after being told on here that SA  has  a law  about desexing dogs  , i think its a good law   , because after speaking to the council , they tell me , if i buy  a puppy on mains  i have   a certain amount of time  to join  the relevent organization  and become a breeder or shower of said dog ...

But its the breeder who has become judge and jury insisting on  ltd papers  and hence stopped myself or anyone else from doing it  and therefore limiting stock ,, so whats it acheived ,, its acheived  ltd stock high prices and people  who want to  just throwing together two dogs and getting maybee 2-3 grand a pup  for mongrels ,,  its killed its own industry .

Don't know too much about this ,, but  i started to feed my dog on chicken pet mince ,, within a week he was at the vets , who told me STOP  his stomach sounded like world war 3 he said ,, vet told me theres too much rubbish mixed in a lot of pet mince and he see's a lot of dogs with stomach parasite problems , because of it ,,    he's only a small dog so for his night meal its not too expensive for me to feed him  proper cooked  chicken breast  and he's  good with that

Vet said  it goes for most butchers ,,  could be maybee mine just has a sensetive stomach who knows ...

1 hour ago, stellnme said:

I actually did give her some options.

Very good ,, well done ,, Certainly better than a lecture about how much it costs to breed ,  or being told your 5 year old will learn a lesson ,  poor lady only  posted about how expensive they were ,,, and they are .

On 20/09/2021 at 10:19 PM, Camo76 said:

Thanks for your suggestion Boronia and Deeds. The vet was able to keep him up to 4 weeks and no one is allowed to drive into QLD (unless it's freight). After a few calls to interstate pet cemeteries and transport companies,  no one was able to provide this service, especially for a large dog so I decided to get him cremated. Hopefully Victoria will get a pet cemetery soon, it is surely needed. Thanks again for your help. 

 Cremated is probably the best idea  , you can keep him forever then ,,  Weve got the mother in law   In the lounge cabinet ,,, Will say i was'nt happy    when i first found out  we had her ,, she was in a little box on the wifes dresser  in the bedroom ,  I thought it was a jewerly box ,,,  gave me the creeps  when i found out , moved her to the lounge ,,  she can go into the attic ,  when the wife lets me move her again .

But cremated is the best way for you , I had visions of you getting pulled over  at an interstate fruit inspection ,, trying to explain why you had a big dog in an esky  covered in ice , Not even sure if it would be legal to transport dead dogs , across the border ,  here in SA we can't even take a lettuce to the riverland

Its a whippet ,, got to be Speedy  Gonzales  ,, Speedy for short

13 hours ago, The Spotted Devil said:

Just saw this on FB....not blaming the new puppy owner at all but how do you think this is going to end up.....? The poor Mum being expected to feed the pup on her own at 4.5 weeks! My lot start on solids ASAP, 3 to 3.5 weeks and Mum weans them when she's good and ready. There's a hell of a lot more to breeding than producing cute puppies. I like both these breeds but the combination makes me shudder, particularly without that critical socialisation with litter mates and mum.

 

 

Perhaps give this lady a link , she could offer to rehome the pup

Just keep going to the pound chances are you will not find a pedigree and you will be extremly lucky to find a small little white fluffy malltese cross , although i got one , i actually went in to buy a big full grown mastiff i knew was there , and walked out with this perfect half cat half dog  not a proper dog but perfect familly dog  LOL  Just keep going to the pound , keep an eye on gumtree and chech your local boards in the supermarkets  honestly i checked them 8 years ago and come acroos a familly moving interstate ,  they needed to find a home for a pedigree stumpy tailed heeler i took him , after a year i gave him to my son because my grandkids loved him , he a beutiful familly dog  9 years old now . They are out there you dont need to buy an expensive pedigree half of them are not very good anyway  most are not selling top quality dogs anyway  and this breed fot temprement is mostly rubbish they would,nt know there dogs are in kennells and runs out the bag the only love they get is when they get a bowl of food put in with them ..... There ya go  bring on the abuse , this lady was only expressing concern over overprized dogs and you all jumped down her throat , take some back 

Good post scratch ,,,,, I have always been sceptical about showing ect , i've never  shown a dog but whilst i can appreciate  the time effort put in  i question whats happenning , i live over looking a dog beach  , i spend half my life on it , either walking  or swimming or  just in my kayack ,  i fish there ,  my little dog is always with me  maltese /cross from the pound ,,  now he runs up  to dogs and people and  they come to him ,    so i always end up talking , and too be honest i look at some breeds and think what the ,hell ,,  especielly GSD's ,   every single owner will say , i got him /her from a top breeder , i'll smile  say he / she's nice ,  and think GSD's are supposed to be  strong alert , confident , good looking dogs , and i see   humped backs with short back legs and  skinny snouts ,    very wary and a little nervous , shake my head and think , yep and i bet there dogs win shows ,,   it seems to me   there changing the comfirmation of shepards too suit there pocket  not the breed ,

Now its only  because  the last couple months i've wanted to get another big dog  i've come across stuff  , thats disapointed me  and can see the problems ,  and  the biggest problem i see is the breeders have become  policeman , judge and jury  over byb  , so much so they are not allowing sue , and peter up the road  to breed or sell there dogs , by insisting on desex , and ltd papers ,

Now i did'nt know until someone here pointed out In Sa  you buy a pup and by law you  either join the apprropriate association , or you desex your dog ,, i think its a good law , but its a law that allows me to

A---- Buy a dog

b----- decide if i want to breed it or show it  if i think its a great example of its breed

So why do breeders in SA need to sell with ltd papers , the law has already sorted it out ,  either join the correct association or desex , thats law .

Now i can tell you i would never want to do either BUT i would want the choice  if i paid out the money  for what a breeder tells me is a good dog with a good background , so is the law stopping me breeding a dog for   a job has opposed to  confirmation in the show ring , NO its the breeder who refuses to sell a dog on mains papers . are the ones who make it very difficult for me to know if there  breeding / selling dogs  because there just really no better than puppy farms trying to protect an income ,, or if there genuine breeders trying to protect there  strain of dog .

Everyone will have different answers , but personaly i believe   when i bought pedigree dogs , will admit  not for 15 or so years , but  i've bought  7 from good breeders and every one of them was proud to give me mains papers and everyone of them encouraged me or at least tried to  encorage me to show them they were just never going to talk me into it  '

 Keep saying  breeders are shooting themslves in the foot

Looks like a happy healthy dog ,

Sandgrubber - I wasn't saying that the ring is the perfect solution.  What has been done to several breeds is 'criminal' and bloody disgusting.  I remember the German Shepherds of the 70's - proud, sound (mind and body) beautiful animals.   Not the roach backed/down on hocks, screaming/mentally fragile beings of a few decades later.  And that is only one of dozens of breeds that have been stuffed up physically and mentally (before anyone loses it - yes there are exceptions in individuals and breeders - I am referencing in general).   The point I was attempting to make is that there are pups that simply aren't up to breed standard (pls note, I said the standard, not 'winning in the ring). 

Could not agree more

17 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

WA laws will come in soon .

This is reality & when we get puppy people jumping up n down claiming what they should be entitled too we ask "Did you support the puppy farm " bills.
When the answer is yes Then our answer is what your entitled to too is what you supported .
Many public in SA didn't care one bit about what they whole bill covered just the "fancy" parts .
When breeders expressed there concerns over early spaying or losing there lines the public all accused them off been money grubs,now they sell on limited & the requirements are spay there still called money grubs .

You buy a dog from another state you still have to meet the SA laws so all the ranting in the world off what you want,are entitled too or should be allowed are irrelevant unless you join DogSA or a body the law reconizes & meet the conditions or find a vet who will sign that the dog is too young to be spayed which you clearly have said is not going to happen then, what you brought 20 years ago is not current laws .

""The new laws also discourage accidental, casual, and ‘Backyard Breeders’ by forcing anyone wanting to keep an undesexed dog or cat born after July 1st 2018 to register as a breeder. The owner needs to registered as a breeder every year that their animal goes undesexed. If they do not register as a breeder every year, they will be obliged to desex any dogs or cats they  have that were born after 1st July 2018 .""

I believe the breeders fee if you are a member off the selected orgs is $75 yearly ,council fees then for undesexed is $65upwards  plus your membership fee to the org also payable yearly .
You will be listed as a breeder irrespective as you own an entire & have to meet the standards off that .



Very nice long winded letter 

especielly... quote   You buy a dog from another state you still have to meet the SA laws so all the ranting in the world off what you want,are entitled too or should be allowed are irrelevant unless you join DogSA or a body the law reconizes & meet the conditions or find a vet who will sign that the dog is too young to be spayed which you clearly have said is not going to happen then, what you brought 20 years ago is not current laws .unquote 

 

If i buy a dog  and pay a premium for that dog  ,, Has i keep saying if you care to read , price is immaterial ,,, but if i  pay you or anyone else  $4---5000  FOR A DOG   i SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO WITH THAT DOG WHAT I WILL BE IT bREED OR SHOW ,,  it keeps getting pointed out it cost the same to raise a dog with mains or  ltd papers ,,   so   why ltd papers , i think we all know 8 weeks is too early to know the true potentiaal of a dog   in fact my train of thought 8 weeks for the big breeds is too early to leave mom , should be 10 weeks , but thats another story ,,   having to desex a dog by law is immaterial ,, because you don't have to do it straight away  , and by the time that comes you will know if you want to show or breed , and can then make the discision has to wether or not you join the appropriate  associations to do so ,So all your ranting means nothing  anyone wanting to show there pedigree dog or breed from it  would obviuosly join these associations  or break the law  , but for the prices charged they should have the right to do so ,  Any other reason not to allow them and force ltd papers is nothing but   cutting out competition for dollars , nothing to do with breeders intergrity , 

 

breeders are just shooting themselves in the foot ,   there purposly limiting the amount of breeding stock out there ,  its not there job the SA govt has already  took care of that in SA by  making it illigal to own a un desexed dog UNLESS you become a registered breeder , the only reason for a breeder to become policeman and judge is to protect there own income 

Do agree my locel rspca who i,ve purchased 3 dovgs from over the years  never have dogs in now boarding seems there only concern . Money is there only concern I believe they only ,keep enough strays to ensure there govt funding  about 10 years ago i was approached to paint there kennels  i actually said i would sponsor them by supplying the paint and labor free of charge for a week , i supplied materials payed my blokes wages for a week  he done probably half of them  but to my suprise when i went to visit him , they had him only do the kennels that were boarding  where the strays were never got touched  my mates wife stopped volunteering  after she found 90%  of her time was looking after the boarding dogs  , like she said she signed up to look after strays and injured  not 40 dollar a night boarders ,,,, Its all about the money 

Only looked at 1 in SA do all states require desexing by law 

I take on board the costs of pups and producing them and say again forget the price that does,nt matter  but 2  minutes ago i just ramdomly selected 20 kennels selling pups on this site ,different breeds and random  , Out of the 20 probably 15 went to great lenghths to say how good there dogs were  parents champions bla bla bla ,, so you would assume that they were selling good dogs  credit to the breed , however 18 off the 20 said limited papers   not to be bred , non said not to be shown  breeding from there great stock was the issue   , there not interested in preserving good dogs , just protecting an income ,,, thats all from me i  know the answer to the problem DONT  BUY  OF THEM 

So what are you saying  you just explained registar , vac /chip  , ect around $1300  .  and they cost the same  regardless mains or ltd ,, SO WHY do just about ALL breeders want to sell LTD only  and want you to desex the dog ,, On top of that the prices are  usually  around 3 grand a pup , some more some less ,,, self explanatory is'nt it ,, cost of say on average 1300 dollars your prices not mine ,,  profit of  15-1700 a pup   some more some less ,   last breeder i went to had 2 bitches she was breeding  ,  she told me her pups are always healthy  ansd strong and they usually have 8-10 pups   twice a year , thats 16 -20 pups a year , Some big money flying around and cash at that mostly ..  and the more  breeders insist on desex and ltd papers the more they  protect there income not the breed  what they claim to do

Now don't get me wrong i don't care how much the pups are , because your correct price on everything has gone up ,  What i question is this LTD papers  rubbish ,  i buy a dog  its mine  and if i'm paying you a premium because your a breeder  i expect that dog  to be shown if i want   or breed if i want to ..otherwise go to the pound  and grab any old dog  desexed , chipped and  $450  The money does'nt come into it  , you can ask  10 grand a pup , some will pay some will not , its irrelevant , its the restrictions placed that give me the shits .

Like i said before one breeder tried to justify to me her older dog was worth thousnds because she had a good pedigree  and produced good pups , when the reality was , she  was  looking to dump her breeder bitch  into someone else because its breeding days were over, this dog was never going to win a show , or produce another litter ,, but  rehoming her out of a kennel into a loving home was only on the agenda if it came with $2500 ,,, and the dog was'nt even house trained it had lived in a kennel and a run ,  , and she had the cheek to tell me  if i don't think her dogs worth it , go see a byb .   At what point did she stop becoming a BYB and become a responsible breeder ,   money was the driving force here and protecting that stream

I reiterate , the price is irrelevent , i said before when i bought a shepard years ago ,  The breeder shown me the litter said you cannot have that one i'm keeping it ,,, take your pick , ,  the rest are  $800 each   now that was a premium  around 30 years ago .     there pedigrees were good there temperament was good , wether or not they would be show quality  you can't tell at 8 weeks ,,, but there was no restrictions  and that is how i have bought EVERY dog i've ever bought from a breeder