Cant Get Dog To Learn "drop"

[dogdude]

I find the best way to teach drop to a green dog is by using the lure/guide method for about 8 or 9 times, then just use the food bowl at meal time. There comes a time where you just need to have patience and just give the down command (while holding the food bowl) and just wait. A double or triple command during the learning of this is ok. No response, no food. Still no response, not hungry enough. It is healthy to fast your dog. Wolves dont have refrigerators or pantrys.

If you are worried about commands to eat etc, give the ok, but still hold the bowl. Use it to tease him etc .Dog may be a little confused but will work through it.

Dont forget to use a marker when he does go down.

[Mushaka]

Should i have the dog on a leash while in training mode?

[Sarah L]

When you get your dog to sit and put the treat to the nose and lure it down to the ground, try instead of pulling your hand outwards from the dog, working your hand inwards so that the dogs nose follows the treat further in between it legs rather than outwards. Do this slowly. It makes the dogs bottom push back and down instead of up and out. This makes up for a lack of handler timeing in the pulling outwards of the treat.

Do not have the dog on a lead when teaching the down.

People have to know the difference between a dog that will respond outwards and inwards when teaching down.

Edited August 25, 2007 by pinnacle dts

[Mushaka]

thanx..she got it a few times today. I will have to keep at it tomorrow. Will def try ur suggestione pinnacle

[Kelpie-i]

L&L, good to hear that she is getting it. Just curious to know which method/s worked? I would also just stick to what is working for the moment as you may create confusion if you chop and change methods in the early stages.

Do not have the dog on a lead when teaching the down.

PTDS, Why not?

Edited August 25, 2007 by Kelpie-i

[Sarah L]

L&L, good to hear that she is getting it. Just curious to know which method/s worked? I would also just stick to what is working for the moment as you may create confusion if you chop and change methods in the early stages.

Do not have the dog on a lead when teaching the down.

PTDS, Why not?

The reason I do not want the dog on lead when teaching down is because peoples emotions are transferred from the lead to the dog. It is obvious that l&l wants the dog to be the best in the class. However most vet nurses do not understand the pull or push method of teaching down. This is a clear example of the vet nurse, regardless of what so called accreditation in dog training she has only going on what she has been told rather than what her experience in dog training has been.

I would certainly not stick to what has been shown already, as after two weeks the dog seems to be not doing very much. Kelpie-i I have taught many puppy classes over the last 20 years and found that once again the owner has more issues than than the dogs do.

L&L please, this is why I would not take on a private lesson with you. Despite you saying that you only needed to get your tax return done before enlisting my help at the cost of very little compared to other trainers you think so highly of. I saw from a very early stage that most of the issues lie with you and not the dogs. I do want to help you but you have to listen in the first place before you will have success.

I would put my life on the line and come out to you for free, just to show you how easy basic obedience is for your dogs and living in harmony is very acheivable when you are not so strung out on other issuses in your life and blame it on your dogs.

Edited August 25, 2007 by pinnacle dts

[Erny]

The reason I do not want the dog on lead when teaching down is because peoples emotions are transferred from the lead to the dog. It is obvious that l&l wants the dog to be the best in the class. However most vet nurses do not understand the pull or push method of teaching down. This is a clear example of the vet nurse, regardless of what so called accreditation in dog training she has only going on what she has been told rather than what her experience in dog training has been.

Have I missed something? Merely having the lead on the dog doesn't equate with having to employ "guide, show and place" methods (not to suggest there's anything wrong with G,S & P done properly under tuition and if appropriate for the individual dog). ?

I would put my life on the line and come out to you for free, just to show you how easy basic obedience is for your dogs and living in harmony is very acheivable when you are not so strung out on other issuses in your life and blame it on your dogs.

L&L ..... sounds like a very generous offer to me and one worth taking up?

Edited August 25, 2007 by Erny

[Sarah L]

The reason I do not want the dog on lead when teaching down is because peoples emotions are transferred from the lead to the dog. It is obvious that l&l wants the dog to be the best in the class. However most vet nurses do not understand the pull or push method of teaching down. This is a clear example of the vet nurse, regardless of what so called accreditation in dog training she has only going on what she has been told rather than what her experience in dog training has been.

Have I missed something? Merely having the lead on the dog doesn't equate with having to employ "guide, show and place" methods (not to suggest there's anything wrong with G,S & P done properly under tuition and if appropriate for the individual dog). ?

I would put my life on the line and come out to you for free, just to show you how easy basic obedience is for your dogs and living in harmony is very acheivable when you are not so strung out on other issuses in your life and blame it on your dogs.

L&L ..... sounds like a very generous offer to me and one worth taking up?

Maybe you have missed something Erny, not that I would try and discredit you in any way unlike what has been done to me. My word still stands. If this 5 month old pup cannot down, stay, heel, come or whatever for the owner then I am more than happy to show the pup how to do this and more. So when it does it for me what will your retort be, OH! its because she is a behavioural trainer. Never mind if the owner is willing to listen I am sure they can acheive the same result. Also this is where I excel the most and not just on an internet forum.

Edited August 25, 2007 by pinnacle dts

[Erny]

So when it does it for me what will your retort be, OH! its because she is a behavioural trainer. Never mind if the owner is willing to listen I am sure they can acheive the same result.

Give over, PDTS. I'm just asking a question, but you never seem to be able to accept that. My question being : why do you think that having a lead on necessarily has to equate with the "guide, show, place" method being employed? I stated "maybe I missed something" ..... I was actually treading carefully with you, and trying to leave the door open to perhaps my own error being a misunderstanding of what you've written.

I have no idea where your response is coming from or what you're even trying to say here. I don't have to say anything about your "behavioural trainer" status - you've got that written under your avatar. ???????

Attractive dog, btw.

Edited August 25, 2007 by Erny

[Kavik]

I don't think it makes any difference if you have the lead on or not unless you are training outside your property, when you would want the dog to be on lead for safety reasons until it has a good recall, or if you think the dog is going to ignore you and do its own thing, when again you would want the dog on lead to keep its attention. But you certainly don't have to have the lead on to teach drop.

[Sarah L]

Erny it may be just me but your line of questioning always leaves a sour taste in my mouth. If it is just me I apologize. I have to be honest hear and I wish this is something we could sort out. I do stand by what I have said. Teaching a dog on lead is sometimes the worst thing that a owner can do. ( This is generalised in comparison to what I have advised already). Surely you understand this point of view. What I meant was an owner can be to emotionally involved with the dog and put in more problems than what was there in the first place, by working the dog on lead. I am worried from what I have heard in this case that this might be true.

Thank you for thinking my dog is attractive, he is very special to me. He is the one in a million dogs that everyone has once in their life. He is 9 years old now and such a character

[Mushaka]

L&L, good to hear that she is getting it. Just curious to know which method/s worked? I would also just stick to what is working for the moment as you may create confusion if you chop and change methods in the early stages.

Do not have the dog on a lead when teaching the down.

PTDS, Why not?

The reason I do not want the dog on lead when teaching down is because peoples emotions are transferred from the lead to the dog. It is obvious that l&l wants the dog to be the best in the class. However most vet nurses do not understand the pull or push method of teaching down. This is a clear example of the vet nurse, regardless of what so called accreditation in dog training she has only going on what she has been told rather than what her experience in dog training has been.

I would certainly not stick to what has been shown already, as after two weeks the dog seems to be not doing very much. Kelpie-i I have taught many puppy classes over the last 20 years and found that once again the owner has more issues than than the dogs do.

L&L please, this is why I would not take on a private lesson with you. Despite you saying that you only needed to get your tax return done before enlisting my help at the cost of very little compared to other trainers you think so highly of. I saw from a very early stage that most of the issues lie with you and not the dogs. I do want to help you but you have to listen in the first place before you will have success.

I would put my life on the line and come out to you for free, just to show you how easy basic obedience is for your dogs and living in harmony is very acheivable when you are not so strung out on other issuses in your life and blame it on your dogs.

WHAT THE??????..............

You offered to come out,u never said you wouldnt. I DID tell u that this wasnt possible until i had secured more funds as all money had been used on my rescue dog and my new pup and all the shots etc that go along with it.

My dog has no "issues" she has learnt all other commands readily,just getting a little stuck on this one. Im sure that the most competant of trainers has had some dogs that are "tripped up" by a simple command,and have to employ different methods for that particular dog etc.

I fail to see how or why you continuously blame ME whenever I post a question on things she might be doing. She IS after all only 3 MONTHS old!

I think that from what I see here on this forum,Im very glad I chose to hire a different behaviorist for Lewis (my rescue dog that CAME TO ME with issues).

I think you are a right,that the dog can grasp the energy on the lead,and I do feel for any dog on the other end of a leash u r holding as u obviously are very bitter about something!! Maybe life hasnt been so kind?..Watever it is,seek help and stop taking it out on people that you know nothing about.

Stop using the shield of the internet to harrass and be nasty to people when u have had a rough day! You say Erny leaves a bad taste in ur mouth..R u kidding???? As they say in the bible,take the PLANK out of ur own eye before removing the speck from someone elses!

Thanx to all the people that replied to my threadhelpfully and with maturity. Although with people like Pinnacle on these forums,i DO think i will hesitate before asking any further questions.

[Kelpie-i]

L&L, please don't hesitate to post and ask questions on DOL. There are so many excellent and talented trainers here who can help you with any hiccup you have with your dog training. Not all problems are as serious as some may put it.

I still wish to know which method worked for you if you don't mind me asking!!

PTDS, take a chill!

Edited August 26, 2007 by Kelpie-i

[Mushaka]

L&L, please don't hesitate to post and ask questions on DOL. There are so many excellent and talented trainers here who can help you with any hiccup you have with your dog training. Not all problems are as serious as some may put it.

I still wish to know which method worked for you if you don't mind me asking!!

PTDS, take a chill!

Thanx Kelpie, I found the source of the problem..OH uses "drop" command to get things off the dog.

I used "Lie" instead.

I half starved the poor petal and let her get real hungry before starting the session. I used the food to nose,then brought it down,then as she was bum down nose down i gently "placed her front paws in front of her then used "lie" and put some food between her legs to keep her there..

No skill..probably could have done it 1000 better ways,but it worked!.. she still isnt that great though so im not through the woods yet.

I did run into some other people from puppy school today and mentioned my troubles...they said they cant get thier dog to do it either!! Lol.. glad its not just me!!!

[Kelpie-i]

Thanks for that L&L. Drops can be a little tricky but with patience you'll get it.

My belief is that is best when the dog does it on his own accord rather than being made to, but that doesn't mean other techniques aren't as good...just my preference.

And NO, it doesn't matter if you have the lead on or off.....she'll neeed to get used to both ways in life.

Please keep us informed on how you progress.

[Mushaka]

I agree Kelpie,i would prefer not to have put her into position but she just couldnt get it.

I think i've over enforced the "no eating till i say" business lol so when i pull the food too far out she just sits back and waits for it!

I really think i might benefit from "spying" on my local club until she is old enought to attend!!

[Kelpie-i]

It's not necessary to use her food bowl with the method I suggested. You can use some yummy treats which work just as well. Things like ham or bacon, beef etc.

The whole idea with that technique is that is reinforces each tiny step she makes towards the drop.....it's merely shaping the behaviour as opposed to asking for it all at once. It's worked many times on those more "difficult" dogs. Another way is to free shape the drop. That is whenever she goes into a drop all on her own, even if it is just lying down in front of the TV or something, immediately say "Lie" as soon as he goes into that position, treat her and praise etc.. Doing this a few times over and she will start to get the message

Good luck!

[Erny]

I agree Kelpie,i would prefer not to have put her into position but she just couldnt get it.

I think i've over enforced the "no eating till i say" business lol so when i pull the food too far out she just sits back and waits for it!

I know what you mean L&L. Try giving your girl "the word" just as you show her the food treat near her nose, and as her nose follows it, tell her "good girl" in a soft but encouraging voice (to let her know that you DO want her to try for the food). Or maybe you've already tried this?

Edited August 26, 2007 by Erny

[Mushaka]

Im doin the "lie" command for freely doing it....!! This is hard work isnt it..lol. No wonder people are so proud of thier dogs when they get it right!

I am trying so hard to get it right,yet so afraid to get it wrong!!!!!!!!! I have books,movies.training sessions. DOL ..Im on info overload!!!

I think i could really do with watching someone train thier own dog!!

[Erny]

Try giving your girl "the word" ...

L&L .... sorry - I meant her "eat command".

Have you tried using a hand at her shoulder blades (at same time as using food to 'lure') to encourage her down and back into a drop from the stand?

Sorry if this has already been covered in previous posts - if so, please ignore.

If you do try this, make SURE that the palm of your hand 'cups' the shoulder blades (ie wither) rather than sitting behind the shoulder blades.

This method is really only good for if the dog is coming into the drop from a stand, rather than from a sit position.