Adolescence Vs. Lack Of Respect

[WinGus]

Hi, my baby is now nearly 7mo. How do I know she's going through adolescent troubles vs. just her lack of respect for me?!? Is there a difference? :)

She nips my hands as a game, doesn't listen to me when I command her to do something, doesn't like the leash, is so distracted and can't focus when I'm trying to practice obedience training at home etc. etc.

I feel so frustrated and not sure what to do. :D I have been trying to implement some leadership by eating before her, trying to walk through doors before her, etc. but I think the biggest failing I have is trying to remain calm and aloof. I just can't do it and get quite upset and frustrated at her when she just doesn't listen to me. In these situations I do try and walk away from her and try to calm down.

Does anyone have any comments, or your own experiences?!?

[Monah]

Well, firstly, yes, you have to remain calm. Sorry. Is she the little dog in your avatar? Cute. Have you tried getting and keeping her attention with food or a toy when training? She may just need a reward each time for a while (or longer) until she gets the hang of things. Being very firm will help. If you are 'trying' to go through the door first, for example, she must NEVER go first (while learning), otherwise, being clever, she'll just think she can always go first, that you aren't serious. Same with everything else. They only need once (think table begging etc), getting away with it for them to think that they can always do it (whatever 'it' may be). Also seeing as she is young, she only needs a couple of very short training 'sessions'. Tell her once, ie SIT. not a hundred times, then it's not frustrating. She must learn that if you say something she has to do it. If she is rewarded every time, hopefully she'll eventually do it occassionally without the reward, then all the time,maybe The more upset you become, the more excited and out of control she'll be. Sometimes it can be a viscious circle, you start to worry about it already before training, that you are going to have trouble, then you do, then next time you worry again. Have a break for a few days and don't make it a battle of wills, it isn't. I've (and I'm sure many of us) have also had lots of frustration. Once you have a couple of 'wins' with her, you'll feel on top of the world and wonder why you got upset. I feel your pain!!!!!!!!! Really! Good luck. She's adorable.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx At 7 months she needs to learn you're no. 1.

[Poodle wrangler]

Ah, she has you trained . I guess around 7 months might be adolescence in a smaller breed, desexed? But is the lack of respect new? or ongoing?

My standard poodle seemed to develop selective deafness at about 9 months of age, but is back to normal with going back to basics training-wise and being consistent.

Whether or not it's lack of respect or adolescent troubles is academic as the treatment is the same:

Training

Consistency

Leadership (this does not mean being mean or military-like).

Do you do Triangle of Temptation (TOT) with your dog?

It's a basic training program pinned at the top of the Training subforum: http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=64101.

You don't have to worry too much about the theory, but must do it EXACTLY as described to get best results. Is a great place to start and only takes 5 minutes extra to do at mealtime.

Now you've got a place to start. You'll have no reason to get frustrated because the dog is on a leash or rope as backup. The dog has to eat at some stage, too.

[WinGus]

Hi Monah,

Yes, she is the one in my avatar. I always have food with me when doing the training, although I don't always give her some after a command. I think I might have to go back to the beginning and use food for everything and re-build up the commands from there.

When I walk through a door, I try and keep her held back, but she still ends up going through at pretty much the same time as I do. Is this acceptable or do I have to be completely through the doorway before she can come through? There are only a few times when this has happened and she has come through when we say so.

So what happens when I give a command and she doesn't listen? I know it's not good to keep repeating commands, but do I just let her go and do whatever? I'm not one for forcing the dog into a position, ie. if I tell her to sit, I don't want to force her to sit. Should I use treats then?

I didn't do the training today as I am just too tired to do it and I do know I'll get more frustrated when I'm tired.

Thanks for your help.

[WinGus]

Hi PoodleWrangler

I'm finding it difficult to see just when it is she is manipulating me and when she is just being disrespectful!!

She is desexed and the lack of respect has been present for the past two months or so.

I've read through the TOT thread, but even before that, Pepper has been good at sitting and waiting for me to tell her it's okay to eat her dinner. Although lately she has been naughty and not eating unless I sit with her or hand feed her. I have only done this once or twice and will stop it completely from tomorrow. If she doesn't eat by herself then she doesn't get any dinner at all. I'm sure she will get the message sooner or later!

I'm not particularly keen on tying her up in the back and I'm not sure when I would need to tie her up in any situation. I also feed her inside, so does that make any difference? I am aware though that these things are part of the whole training programme, so will think about how I can do this.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Danois]

I went through the 'first through the door' with Angus 8 weeks ago (aged 10 months).

He knew sit and stay - he tends to go into a drop which I do not mind. I would then walk ahead and open the door. If he released himself and rushed out I would turn around, call him back and shut the door and then repeat the process until he got the idea. I now walk up to the door and point to the floor and he drops, I walk out the door, put my shoes on and then release him.

He has learnt that he cannot get to the park if he does not do this.

I have used the same technique with regards to throwing his ball or stick. He was jumping on me and he has now learnt that 'mine' means he has to drop and wait for it to be thrown.

Cementing my dominance in these two area has established me as the holder of desirable objects (the park and his ball etc) and he only gets these things on my terms.

I have now noticed that other areas of his behaviour are even better.

Good luck!

[WinGus]

Thanks MCM. I will keep trying with the door thing. I think I have to keep her on a leash as she will not come back to me when called. I just hope that this doesn't make her hate the leash even more.

I need loads of patience!!!!

Do you think that keeping all toys away from her and only bringing them out on my terms will also help?

[Poodle wrangler]

.....

I've read through the TOT thread, but even before that, Pepper has been good at sitting and waiting for me to tell her it's okay to eat her dinner. Although lately she has been naughty and not eating unless I sit with her or hand feed her. I have only done this once or twice and will stop it completely from tomorrow. If she doesn't eat by herself then she doesn't get any dinner at all. I'm sure she will get the message sooner or later!

I'm not particularly keen on tying her up in the back and I'm not sure when I would need to tie her up in any situation. I also feed her inside, so does that make any difference? I am aware though that these things are part of the whole training programme, so will think about how I can do this.......

Sitting and waiting for an OK isn't the same as TOT. When your dog sits and waits is she looking at the food or you?

TOT teaches them to look at YOU. It's obvious from the behaviours you describe that your dog is not looking to you enough!

You don't have to tie her out the back. I started to do this with the dog on leash, clipped to the back porch.

You could start doing it in a large room as long as you have something to tie the dog's leash to.

Healthy dogs with healthy teeth will not starve themselves.

Stop hand feeding and do TOT EXACTLY as described.

If your dog is not eating meals within 15-20 minutes, but health and teeth are fine, take the food away and give it back for the next meal, using TOT.

Dog will soon get the right idea- that YOU are in charge of food, not her.

Don't offer anything other than the what you put out in the first place, unless you want a fussy eater and lots of wasted food .

This dog has you trained and it's time to establish some leadership. You'll end up with a problem dog instead of a great companion, otherwise .

Dogs are more stressed, not less, without a good leader. You get what you put in to a dog.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Poodle wrangler

[Monah]

Thanks MCM. I will keep trying with the door thing. I think I have to keep her on a leash as she will not come back to me when called. I just hope that this doesn't make her hate the leash even more.

I need loads of patience!!!!

Do you think that keeping all toys away from her and only bringing them out on my terms will also help?

Well, she is so cute I think she could wrap me around her little paw!!! I think you are spot on with the toys. Only let her have them on your terms, you are the 'source' of all her toys and food and FUN. She'll soon realise that if she 'comes', sits etc. she will get a treat or a toy or tug game. Terriers are pretty stubborn (I've had many, mostly lakelands) and really will 'teach' you what they want, ie with the handfeeding etc. You just have to resist and be more stubborn As you said, she wont starve. MCM has excellent advice that you can use with all training. It's just repeat and consistency. I've done it with mine and bugger, now one of mine wont even go out to the loo if I dont go through the door first so it can backfire. She will really push the boundaries, but these little dogs are extremely bright (my ohs cousin has bred them and has aust. champion agility and trackers!!) and she will learn very quickly with the correct instructions. Soon, I'm sure, she will be really fantastic. Just stick to your guns (even when she gives you THAT look, you know the one, we all do. Poor me, I don't want to!). Try not to let her dictate to you about the leash. She HAS to be on one, so she'll just have to get used to it, there's really no room for non compliance with this one. If treats don't work for the leash, I'd give her a loud ARGHHH when she plays up, sit her in the heel position and start again until she works out that she is staying on the leash. As soon as she does the right thing, walks nicely even for a few steps, praise and reward. Deep breaths She's adorable!!!!

[WinGus]

Sitting and waiting for an OK isn't the same as TOT. When your dog sits and waits is she looking at the food or you?

TOT teaches them to look at YOU. It's obvious from the behaviours you describe that your dog is not looking to you enough!

You don't have to tie her out the back. I started to do this with the dog on leash, clipped to the back porch.

You could start doing it in a large room as long as you have something to tie the dog's leash to.

Healthy dogs with healthy teeth will not starve themselves.

Stop hand feeding and do TOT EXACTLY as described.

If your dog is not eating meals within 15-20 minutes, but health and teeth are fine, take the food away and give it back for the next meal, using TOT.

Dog will soon get the right idea- that YOU are in charge of food, not her.

Don't offer anything other than the what you put out in the first place, unless you want a fussy eater and lots of wasted food .

This dog has you trained and it's time to establish some leadership. You'll end up with a problem dog instead of a great companion, otherwise .

Dogs are more stressed, not less, without a good leader. You get what you put in to a dog.

Thanks for your good advice, PoodleWrangler.

She does actually look at me when I put the food down, not at the food. She will glance at it once or twice, but mainly her focus is on me, which is quite good since I never really formally taught her this (I was actually trying to teach her to leave a food item in my hand - that didn't work, but it made her look at me before feeding, which I guess was good also!! )

I will re-read and try to put into practice TOT as described. Hopefully it will work in the house as opposed to outside.

[WinGus]

Well, she is so cute I think she could wrap me around her little paw!!! I think you are spot on with the toys. Only let her have them on your terms, you are the 'source' of all her toys and food and FUN. She'll soon realise that if she 'comes', sits etc. she will get a treat or a toy or tug game. Terriers are pretty stubborn (I've had many, mostly lakelands) and really will 'teach' you what they want, ie with the handfeeding etc. You just have to resist and be more stubborn As you said, she wont starve. MCM has excellent advice that you can use with all training. It's just repeat and consistency. I've done it with mine and bugger, now one of mine wont even go out to the loo if I dont go through the door first so it can backfire. She will really push the boundaries, but these little dogs are extremely bright (my ohs cousin has bred them and has aust. champion agility and trackers!!) and she will learn very quickly with the correct instructions. Soon, I'm sure, she will be really fantastic. Just stick to your guns (even when she gives you THAT look, you know the one, we all do. Poor me, I don't want to!). Try not to let her dictate to you about the leash. She HAS to be on one, so she'll just have to get used to it, there's really no room for non compliance with this one. If treats don't work for the leash, I'd give her a loud ARGHHH when she plays up, sit her in the heel position and start again until she works out that she is staying on the leash. As soon as she does the right thing, walks nicely even for a few steps, praise and reward. Deep breaths She's adorable!!!!

Yes, she is very cute, and definitely has me wrapped around her paws, and SHE KNOWS IT!!!

I suppose I could keep her toys away and not leave them lying around. I don't think she plays with them whilst we are at work. How do I keep her occupied when we have dinner?!? She tends to wander around and not sit still (still working on a good sit stay!) or gets bored sitting and staying and wants to do something else. I think that's definitely the terrier in her!

I think back to basics with high value treats and lots of patience should hopefully do the trick!

[Monah]

Hi again!! When you say you're at work does that mean she's home alone? Just wondering whether, if she is, a REALLY big play/run/wear out session would help her behaviour. She may just be full of beans. At that age they are sort of out of the puppy sleeping thing and ready to go go go. With having dinner, if you have a crate that is handy for these times, otherwise either put her out of the room if poss. or we have rugs for each of our dogs and they have to go on there. Our youngest is 8 months. We just have to keep saying ON YOUR RUG and putting her there if she doesn't go, (praise)then she must stay. If you keep her toys from her, maybe you could give her a special toy to occupy her on her rug or whatever, or one of those hide chew things. Easier said than done I know. Otherwise, seeing as she is little and can't stick her head on the table like mine can you could just completely ignore her while you are eating so it's no fun for her at all. Also difficult. All a bit trial and error I'm afraid. Good luck.xxxxxxxxxx And you're right, it is the terrier in her, but they are also highly intelligent, great fun, full of the joys of life. I nicknamed mine my happy chappies! ( and other unmen tionable things at times!!!)

[Monah]

There is a puppy development calendar on this puupy sight. Have a look, it's really great. Suggests that pups of your age have 'selective' deafness!!!!! Lots of great stuff on it.

[WinGus]

Hi Monah, yes, she is alone when I'm at work unfortunately. We try and have a play and get her to do zoomies around the yard in the morning before we leave, but it's probably not enough for her. I'm hesitant to take her for a long walk in the mornings because I strapped for time, especially if I have to wait at least an hour before feeding her. I'd have to get up at 4am in the morning just to make it to work by 8am! For me who loves that extra minute lie in, getting up at 6am is already difficult! :cry:

Having said that though, we do try and take her for a walk when we get home from work. Hasn't seemed to do much yet!

We usually make her go into her crate before dinner, but lately she hasn't wanted to. Just stands and stares blankly at me. Not sure what that means. Perhaps I need to enforce this as I then just give in, make her sit and she does. She then eats a little bit and then is disinterested. Maybe I should get the vet to check her out if she doesn't have much appetite?!? Or maybe I should just starve her for one day and see what happens?

I've never had any object occupy her attention for more than ten minutes!!! Definitely the terrier in her! We have a pillow that I try and get her to stay on, but the only time she will stay on it for more than two seconds is if she is really, really, really tired (ie. we've had her out all day and she hasn't had any sleep during the day at all) and the heater is on, yes, even on warm days!

I did read the Puppy Calendar post. It was very good. Now I just have to get all that information into my head, including the TOT and put it all into practice.

[Danois]

A good way of tiring out before work is a 10 minute training session as this will tire her mentally.

Combine this with a giggle ball or interactive toy for when you leave - when I put Angus' giggle ball down he ignores me leaving as he is rolling it around trying to get the treats out (usually his usual kibble with a few bits of liver included).

With regards to waiting an hour around food - I have a breed prone to bloat and am not so worried about this timeframe if he was not been zooming around, playing etc and only walking.

Keep his toys on a cycle so there is an ever changing variety.

[Monah]

;) had a good laugh about the heater. We had our ducted on all winter BUT also had the oil column heater on with rugs either side, for the viz and the cats!!! She may not seem to have much appetite as she is little, i found with my little malt cross he was full after a little palm sized meal. Their tummies are really little, he ate less than our cats, he was only 5kg. One biscuit would fill him up for hours. Sounds like you have a real live wire there! Very active!!! I don't know if you need to worry about bloat, esp after exercise. Wouldn't feed before. Myabe just keep letting her know what you need from her, and enforcing it, but because of her age, activity level and breed, you may find it doesn't 'click' properly until she's more mature. I think when you mention she stares blankly and doesn't want to, that's exactly it, she doesn't want to ;) This may be the times youhave to be a bit of a meany and make her do it, even if only for 10 seconds, then treat and say good girl etc. This will pay off later, I know from experience, having also had many frustrating moments!! I spent 12 months trying to get my dog to do some agility, weekly, then one week, she just did it. I was stunned, everyone was stunned. Because she knew the names of the equipment and what was expected through me going over it tonnes of times, it all came together. I was so close to giving up and didn't because she's very clever, just fearful. THis also practically cured her fearfulness and gave her confidence, so a double whammy for us. Good luck, keep trying. She's just a baby and so gorgeousxxxxxx

[WinGus]

Thanks for the tips MCM. She already has a treat ball, and I've just ordered another one that apparently has a maze inside, so that should hopefully keep her busy. I do have kongs too, time-delayed with an ice cube, but she tends to only play with them while we are with her. Hubby does training in the morning, might get him to do a longer stint. I do also change her toys around, but again, she mostly ignores them (I've spied on her a few times with a webcam!!) !!

Monah, yeah, I was thinking that perhaps she isn't eating because she's full. I've dropped the amount of food she gets for the past two weeks and still she isn't eating. I thought puppies were supposed to eat up to 10% of their body weight until they mature at 12 months?!? At the moment she is barely getting 5% of her body weight, and that includes breakfast, treats and dinner!!

Oh well, I guess I just have to keep trying. Hubby had her at obedience training on Sunday and it was a hoot! She did actually follow the commands, albeit reluctantly, and everytime hubby stopped, she lay down on the grass enjoying the sunshine!! Classic!! :rolleyes:

I definintely can't say this little one has personality!!

Monah, if you want to check out some more pictures of her, go to the Mini-Foxie thread in the Breed Specific Threads section. I've posted a few pics of her on there.