Luxating Patella - Need Some Information

[Mollyrulz]

My Moodle (maltese poodle), Molly which I rescued from a shelter has been doagnosed with Luxating Patella. According to the Vet, it is common among small breed of dogs.

When I got Molly at approx 16 mths of age, I never knew her history and I never asked whether she had this condition. I only found out a few days ago after she started to limp and could not straighten her right hind leg after her tug-rope game...yes, she can get pretty when playing this AND when chasing her tennis ball ... she loves "activity" that is fast, rough. She's not your normal placid girl... but we still love her to bits!

My query:

- Would she have developed this condition from young ie when she was a pup?

- Could it have come from a fall?

She seems in no pain - just take a few minutes and she's fine to run again, then it can lock up and then she's fine again... it's only happened in the last few days so I took her to my Vet who has prescribed anti-inflammatory for 1 week. I have been asked to monitor her condition as she will probably need surgery.

Vet said that IF surgery performed, she must be kept very quiet - a BIG challenge as Molly is very active (and even Vet acknowledges that!).

My other query:

- Has anyone had the surgery done?

- Did the dog recover and have NO issues after?

- How long before actual damage is done (arthiritis etc) if I hold off the operation?

- Is sedation ok for a dog to keep her from "activity" otherwise how do I keep her quiet for 1 month as I have to go to work each day?

SORRY for the long post - any information/suggestion greatly appreciated.

[poodlefan]

Hi MR,

Sorry to hear this. Luxating patella are a congenital (inherited) condition to some degree. She'd have been born like that.

One of my poodle had one leg done. He recovered well and went on to do agility.

How old is Molly now and what grade of luxation has she got. If it's not severe your vet may not recommend surgery.

Fixing this is a very common procedure but I'd be tempted to check your vet's experience in performing it.

Ted didnt spend a great deal of time "being quiet". Crating and onleash walking should manage it OK.

ETA: The arthritis issue will worsen the longer you delay the op, if your vet deems it necessary. If you don't already feed a joint supplement, I'd be adding one to her diet.

Edited March 13, 2008 by poodlefan

[Mollyrulz]

Thanks for your concern...

Molly is now 21 mths old - has been with me for about 5 mths now. Been the first dog I ever owned in my life, I had no idea what to ask when I wanted a dog from the shelter.

Now I have her (both my kids & husband adore her), I want to do the best by her.

What sort of supplement shd I give her? According to the Vet, there is really nothing to do except surgery for her and she will contact a "specialist" who will come into her clinic to have it done - is that b'cos most Vets can't do this operation?

Thanks

[poodlefan]

Thanks for your concern...

Molly is now 21 mths old - has been with me for about 5 mths now. Been the first dog I ever owned in my life, I had no idea what to ask when I wanted a dog from the shelter.

Now I have her (both my kids & husband adore her), I want to do the best by her.

What sort of supplement shd I give her? According to the Vet, there is really nothing to do except surgery for her and she will contact a "specialist" who will come into her clinic to have it done - is that b'cos most Vets can't do this operation?

Thanks

Most vets can, and do but how well they do it is another matter. Perhaps the grade of the luxation is influencing her advice.

Any kind of canine joint supplement (eg. the Greenpet one) would do or you can feed a human one in the appropriate dose for a dog.

I have my dogs on NZ Greenlipped Mussel - the brand I use is Technyflex. Seems to help my dogs but results appear varied amongst my friends dogs.

[Mollyrulz]

Don't know why the Vet went straight into saying "surgery" ... would have thought that an x-ray is required to see how serious the condition is before surgery was suggested - surgery been the LAST option??

Maybe I am wrong .... maybe she felt it and that was enough for her but she certainly recommends using a specialist for the surgery.

Molly is only young - thought it affected 'older" dogs - again, I could be wrong!

[poodlefan]

Don't know why the Vet went straight into saying "surgery" ... would have thought that an x-ray is required to see how serious the condition is before surgery was suggested - surgery been the LAST option??

Maybe I am wrong .... maybe she felt it and that was enough for her but she certainly recommends using a specialist for the surgery.

Molly is only young - thought it affected 'older" dogs - again, I could be wrong!

Most vets can tell how bad the joint is by manipulating it.

As I said, dogs are born with this problem. Sometimes muscle development can improve the situation, but sometimes not enough. It can be worse in older dogs due to arthritis issues.

Edited March 14, 2008 by poodlefan

[lucknow]

Don't know why the Vet went straight into saying "surgery" ... would have thought that an x-ray is required to see how serious the condition is before surgery was suggested - surgery been the LAST option??

Maybe I am wrong .... maybe she felt it and that was enough for her but she certainly recommends using a specialist for the surgery.

Molly is only young - thought it affected 'older" dogs - again, I could be wrong!

If you are not certain of the vets diagnosis and recommendation you need to see another vet and get a 2nd opinion.

Vets often recommend specialists these days due to the litigation issues - if the results are not picture perfect then their decisions may be questioned therefore they get the 'experts' in.

I am not an expert but have seen this frequently in young dogs as well as old, it is congenital not an age related problem.

[Mollyrulz]

I might get a 2nd opinion....

Also, how effective is sedation after surgery?... as mentioned, I have to go to work mon-fri and she'll be mostly alone except for my son goes to Uni. Vet mentioned that as Molly is very active, maybe sedation to keep her quiet would assist in the rehab process...

Anyone has experienced that - dog not too "doozy' after 1 mth of sedation??... just curious.

[lucknow]

I might get a 2nd opinion....

Also, how effective is sedation after surgery?... as mentioned, I have to go to work mon-fri and she'll be mostly alone except for my son goes to Uni. Vet mentioned that as Molly is very active, maybe sedation to keep her quiet would assist in the rehab process...

Anyone has experienced that - dog not too "doozy' after 1 mth of sedation??... just curious.

I find sedation can be effective for small periods of time but it depends on the patient, all respond differently. Mine sleep for about 8 hours but they are placid relaxed dogs, it is likely to be very different for a livewire like your girl. When we sedate at work (usually out of desperation) it often only gives 2-3 hours of relief .I would speak to a vet re babysitting after surgery at the clinic whilem you are out if necessary. Vets are often very reasonable in their fees for this type of thing, they maalso be able to point you in the direction of anyone else local that would be able to help. friends can also be great as well. In the meantime crate train her and try to get her accostomed to the idea of spending increasing periods of time relatively still with toys or chews.

This may sound cruel but immediately post surgery discomfort often helps restrict activity, it is often later that the problems start.

[puggy_puggy]

As lucknow and poodlefan have said it is a condition that dogs are born with so nothing that you have done or what may have been done before she joined your family would have caused it it just happend naturally.

There are different degrees of luxation which would probably influence your decision on what to do about it. It can cause arthritis.

I would put her on some sort of joint suppliment like glucosamine, sharks cartlage etc.

As for keeping her quiet after surgery. You would need to crate her and not exercise her at all only letting her out on a lead for toilet breaks. If you didn't crate her 24/7 for a few weeks the surgery wouldn't heal properly. Dogs cope fine with being crated if you provide them with their favourite blanket and plenty of chew toys and other toys to keep them happy.

[Mollyrulz]

Appreciate all your advice and am now more aware of the condition.

Will get a crate if she needs surgery - I understand about the sedation lucknow... she is a "livewire" and loves her exercise. With crating, should I start doing that when I know she needs surgery?

With the toilet training, she would not do it on a lead IN OUR backyard BUT will do outside ie when I take her for her walks (yes, i do pick up after her of course, being a socially responsible person). Wonder how I would train her to do it in our backyard?? Any suggestions ?

Cheers

[lucknow]

Appreciate all your advice and am now more aware of the condition.

Will get a crate if she needs surgery - I understand about the sedation lucknow... she is a "livewire" and loves her exercise. With crating, should I start doing that when I know she needs surgery?

With the toilet training, she would not do it on a lead IN OUR backyard BUT will do outside ie when I take her for her walks (yes, i do pick up after her of course, being a socially responsible person). Wonder how I would train her to do it in our backyard?? Any suggestions ?

Cheers

I actually am a relatively new convert to the crate fan club - why not train her to one either way? They are a nice safe place when you have visitors with young children, are getting the carpets cleaned, have accidently spilled a bottle of bourbon in the kitchen... and yes, all these things and more happen to me on a regular basis! I have a station wagon and use the crates to travel the dogs in the back, no more squabbles over who gets the drivers seat lol. Crate training takes me several weeks to get them really accepting in an adult dog.

RE toileting I fill 'em up with lots of yummy water in the food, then when I take them out I press gently on the bladder to encourage toileting. Maybe you could also try going back to basics with her and when she toilets lots of praise so gets to like doing it with you there...

Good luck.

[Poodle wrangler]

I've been thru some of this with my standard poodle. Very unusual for the big poodles.

My vet XRayed to see what was going on. He does a lot of work with the local greyhounds and has an interest in/does orthopaedic surgery. Not all vets can do this surgery, I think.

If the luxating patella is severe, they often skip the XRay and go on to surgery (this saves you about $200 and possibly an extra general anaesthetic). They adapt the procedure depending what they find during the op. Approx. cost is around $1000, but can vary a lot between vets and depending on your dog's exact problem.

Can be caused by injury or the structure of the joint itself.

Sometimes the area where the ligament sits is too shallow (dog is born with this) making it too easy for the knee to dislocate.

In a purebreed dog, poor conformation can make this sort of thing more likely.

The more often your dog dislocates, the more arthritis will develop as the dog will be scraping bone on bone.

Best wishes for your dog.

[Mollyrulz]

Thanks Poodle wrangler....

My vet did not recommend x-rays and did tell me that it would cost around $900-$1,000 all up if done in her surgery and Molly will stay there for 2 days. At the moment, she dislocates about 3 times a week... she gets up, drags her leg for 30 secs (or less) and then goes about as if nothing happened!! She hardly makes any sound so I don't know what's happened except that she "walked funny" ... now I know the reason.

Should I go with the vet's advice as to when to have the surgery OR should I wait and see if it occurs frequently ie several times a day before I proceed to surgery?

Any thoughts??

[lucknow]

Go for surgery as soon as you can to reduce further damage to the knee. I would be pushing for xrays at some point, they can be an important reference for the future.

[peaceful]

We had to have surgery on our 12 month old very active breed puppy and had to keep her quiet for 6 weeks with only a quick toilet break on a lead gradually building up over that period.

We had her in a wire crate so she could see what was going on around her and still feel involved in the family (other dogs etc)

We gave her "Kongs" filled with peanut butter and/or cream cheese and pressed little bits of dry food into the sticky lining to hold them there and that would keep her busy for hours trying to lick all the food out.

Also gave her pigs ears and marrow bones to chew on and lots of interesting puppy toys. There are some really good ones if you look around.

Whenever we were home she sat on our laps for cuddles.

She was happy and it didnt affect her in an adverse way at all.

You can also freeze things for her and as they melt she can nibble more little bits off it. Especially good if its hot.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Miffy

[dead sheep]

Hello Molly

My 14 month old chihuahua Arnie is having his surgery tomorrow. He has a grade 4 luxating patella. He's been limping since I got him home at 12 weeks old and it's getting worse every day. The vet tried 2 weeks of anti-inflams but they did nothing. There is no need for an xray because your pup will need to be sedated for the xray then anethetised for the surgery anyway.

My vet manipulated the joint to feel how badly it was affected. I asked him what procedure he is going to perform and he said he won't know until he opens up the leg and has a look.

Arnie is a hypo puppy still and will need to be crated for 6 weeks. I have no idea how much it will cost as I haven't been given a quote yet. I guess I will find out when I drop him off in the morning.

The limping could be caused by an injury but would heal by itself, usually with no damage. Because your pup is limping often with the knee popped, it sounds exactly how my pup started out. Now he runs around on 3 legs 95% of the time. Arthiritis is imminent if you don't get this fixed and it's best to do it now and let it heal before the other knee possibly goes. I believe arthiritis is more painful than luxating patella.

If you have a search for luxatting patella, a post by toydogs, she has written a paper on this issue as it's a common problem in our breed. I found it very helpful.

What state are you in? If you're in Melbourne I can recommend you 4 vets who were recommended to me.

[Mollyrulz]

Thanks kosti ...

Molly is now about 21 mths old and she is still VERY ACTIVE.. I don't dread the operation as I know it's for her own good BUT I dread the "crating" part as she will be very upset as she has had the "freedom" of certain areas in the house (she is not allowed in the bedrooms and any carpeted areas which is not a lot as I have mostly tiled floors).

That's my ONLY concern - that she will fret and I can't afford "doggy day-care"!! .... I was hoping that if she is ok (I will check with the Vet again when I see her next week and find out the "grade" of her luxating patella), we can have surgery somehwhere around the end of this year so I can take leave plus Xmas break and look after her.

She is NOT limping at all ... it just recently started (the limp and in 30 secs, it's gone & she's ok)..

My heart (and mind) is torn between allowing it to go on - doesn't seem to bother Molly at all, trust me! ...

I am in Brisbane (unfortunately not in MEL, jkosti) - anyone know of a good surgeon they can recommend??

I am learning so much - thanks for all the tips etc.

[dead sheep]

if it has only just started, christmas could be pushing it but I would wait then. Arnie is on 3 legs almost always and it's taken 10 months to get like that. If Molly is only doing it sporadically now, keep an eye on it and when it becomes limping about half the time, go see the vet again. I don't know why your vet would suggest surgery straight away. In this case, I would get another opinion and wait. Try another week of anti-inflams and the supplements suggested earlier in this thread. Contact the chihuahua club of QLD for a vet recommendation. As chi's are known for this problem, any vet they recommend should be experienced with the problem and procedures and courses of treatment.

[dead sheep]

I've also decided to have Arnie kept in the laundry for the 6 weeks instead of crating.