Samodor Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) For anyone who hasnt seen my recent posts on the samoyed we have rescued. quick history - we have a 8 month old samoyed male, and wanted to get a friend for him. We came across a add for a 6 year old samoyed who needed a home. Rusky is the rescue dog, J.P is our dog. Rusky is atm 20kgs heavier than he should be, so doesnt move as well as he could. Brought him home today. Things have been just OK, and tonight as we spent time with the boys... well, problems are arising and im REALLY REALLY concerned. 1. Rusky will not let J.P go near any of us, especially me, without snarling, and really raising the top lip and growling at J.P. and if J.P doesnt heed his warning, he snaps in his direction. In the kitchen before he was doing this to J.P as they both wanted my attention, i had one hand on either of them trying to show them i can love them both, rusky was snarling, j.p was i guess not listening, rusky snapped at j.p and i in a stern voice said no rusky with my finger pointing (i think) but i know by this stage i had one hand on j.p one hand trying to discpline rusky, and he snaped my hand and then snapped at jp. SO i dont know if he meant to snap my hand or if he thought my hand was jp. EITHER way this has really worried me. THEN, i was trying to put them both outside, j.p was already out, we were guiding rusky as he idint want to go outside, and rusky ran out the door and looked like to me was attacked jp, and this wasnt a little snap. was hard to see how far the attack went, no blood was drawn (i dont think havent had a chance to see jp), but it was agressive enough (well, to me agressive) enough to scare the shit out of me and i am now REALLY conerned. I know Rusky gets along fine with dogs smaller than him, as he just left a house with a JRTx who he adored. PLEASE, what do i do? Automatically i wanted to take Rus to where we got him from.. more than anything because i dont want our baby J.P to be damaged in anyway as he is the most gentle little guy, hasnt hurt a fly..... where as rusky is showing quite a few signs that im not sure we are equipped to deal with????? i know we dont understand.... can anyone offer any help? advice?? please feel free to ask any questions you may need to ask to get better undrstanding if you need it. im still a bit rattled from what just happened so i may not be making sense. much appreciated rebecca ETA: currently i have them seperated.. but it couldnt be a permanent situation. JP is in the garage and rus is outside.... this isnt an option long term. Edited October 17, 2008 by MySnowBoyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 We had similar issues with our male when our female turned up. We've had her since June and they still fight. Our basic issue is jealousy. It sounds like J.P is doing the same snap that our male was doing. The only way I felt I could solve it properly was to bring in a behaviourist to help me find out the appropriate way to control them. This has helped, but the process is slow. There are heaps of people on here way more qualified to give you advice, so all I'm going to suggest is try to give them attention seperately for the first few days until J.P has settled in a bit. He might just be unsure of if this is his home etc. Keep your chin up, it does get better with time, patience and commitment from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss B Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Sorry to hear this We've been through a similar situation recently with our rescue Sibe. She hasn't been getting along very well with our other dogs and particularly my young Sibe bitch. At the moment I am keeping them seperated and when Luna (the rescue girl) goes outside she wears a muzzle at all times. We've booked ourselves in for the K9 Force aggression workshop next month and will be taking her with us in an attempt to figure out what's causing this behaviour. I hope you manage to sort something out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samodor Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 We had similar issues with our male when our female turned up. We've had her since June and they still fight.Our basic issue is jealousy. It sounds like J.P is doing the same snap that our male was doing. The only way I felt I could solve it properly was to bring in a behaviourist to help me find out the appropriate way to control them. This has helped, but the process is slow. There are heaps of people on here way more qualified to give you advice, so all I'm going to suggest is try to give them attention seperately for the first few days until J.P has settled in a bit. He might just be unsure of if this is his home etc. Keep your chin up, it does get better with time, patience and commitment from you. Hey sparky, just to clarify, J.P is our dog who is being an angel as always... its rusky who is the new dog and his behaviour im concerned about. I can understand jelousy and even deal with jelousy but this agression is my biggest concern.... the attack outside from Rusky onto JP, i dont know if im being to sensitive, being i know they are dogs but still.... it loked and sounded horrible.... Behaviourist????? i can see how good they would be, but, would be quite expensive am i right???? thank you for replying too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) If you are feeling uncertain as to how to handle this you really do need to get professional help, I'm not sure anyone on-line can give safe advice on dealing with aggression sight unseen. Did Rusty come from a rescue organisation? If so also call them for advice asap. One thing that leapt out at me from your post is that one of incidents happened in the kitchen - if there is a problem between the two dogs the presence of food will only add to the tension. Edited October 17, 2008 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 A consultation giving a behaviourist the opportunity to see the dog rather than relying on imagination stemming from the written word (which can leave out important info anyway) is the way to go for matters of aggression. A couple of questions though :- what were the reason/s given by Rusky's previous owners for re-homing? what is Rusky's socialisation experience history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samodor Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) Diva- no not an organisation. We answered an add. Erny- 1.the people we got him from took him in when a person they knew through work decided to move to melbourne and didnt want to take him with them, and said if these people didnt take him they would PHTS. so the people took him. They have had him 6 months but just cant take care of him,so decided to find him a home. and this brings him to us. 2. I have no idea. BUt, from what i have pieced together- he at some stage (possibly where the owner prior to the people we got him off got him) was a resident at the Lort Smith, as in his little bag of things was a choker chain with a lort smith tag. I got onto the phone to them today and they no longer have any records of him so, the road to finding ruskys history went cold there. Took him to the vet tonight for a check over and start vaccinations as i didnt know if he had any, and upon scanning for a microchip we found one. The vet are going to look into it tomorrow, but i will also call central records on monday, as it may give me more insight, but could very well not. Look, he is very well socalised, EXCEPT for J.P!!! it is so strange. At the vet he did not raise one eyelid to any other dog, (mind you all we saw there were smaller than him), he was so so so so good for the vet, he is so well behaved.... and i just spoke to the family who we got him off and they said they have never seen this behaviour from him, even with thier friends lab who came and played once with them... so im just confused. Is it possible for some reason he (rusky) has just decided he doesnt like JP and wants us for himself. ????? i need to work out what to do cause the way it is right now isnt fair on JP P.S i should of added the reasons the people/family we got him off, couldnt keep him was they just didnt have the time to walk him, or groom him.. which to be honest he didnt care you could tell BUT he is 20kgs fatter than he should be which is not good for him...... so thats why... Edited October 17, 2008 by MySnowBoyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 MSB - in regards to a behaviourist, cost is not always as high as you first think. Although this does differ from behaviourist to behaviourist. From memory you are in Melbourne? The lovely Erny works in Melbourne and she comes highly recommended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samodor Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) thanks Huski- i see she has replied to me... i wonder if she does where i am... erny- i may need your help. BUT, right now, i dont know what to do with them, as in... right now i have JP in the garage, and rus is roaming the backyard. The bakcyard has no section that i could seperate them, so am i better to leave jp in the garage (i feel horrible i have to add he has done nothing wrong but be a puppy maybe) OR should i bring one inside, leave one out???? I guess if i can create a solution for right now, and then get help to address long term. Im actually wondering if we are the family to help him??? I want too, but i also have 2 little toddlers who i am now conerned that, if he can do this to JP, and slightly snap my hand, what will he do to them???? although, so far he has not shown one single agressive motion to them... BUT at the same time i dont want the poor guy going from home to home like it looks like he has.... your advice right now is so greatly appreciated..... Edited October 17, 2008 by MySnowBoyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Do you own a crate??? If so, maybe use it to let them take turns being out with you, while the other one stays in the crate. Another option, do you have a baby gate lying around, as you could use this to block a room off and seperate them that way if you don't have a crate. Sorry about the mix up with names before I understand how you feel right now... I still get down about my two, but you just need to learn what triggers the situation and read the signs to know to intervene. A behaviourist can cost a few dollars, but mine cost me under $300 for 3hrs of training (which we split into 2 1.5hr sessions) and it has been worth so much more than that. We were considering putting our female back on a plane and returning her to melb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samodor Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 no we dont own a crate. Honestly im not even sure i know what one is? except possibly a bigger version of what we use to transport our cats?? I dont have one of those kiddy fence's..... never needed one with the kids. And its breaking my heart but i am considering taking him back to the family we got hime from This is just horrible... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 He might also be very upset about being moved around so much. Give him time to settle. Get some basic obedience happening (practise at home, and if possible, take him to a local club). Get him in some sort of routine. Help him to understand that you are the leader, and that you are a kind and consistent leader. Keep the boys seperated for now and take things slowly. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 A crate is like a big doggy cage that acts as their 'bedroom' so to speak. Can you alternate which one is in the garage etc? Or have one inside and one outside for the time being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samodor Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 i could have one inside. my issue there is though.. J.P being a energetic puppy just bounce's and never stops.... yet Rus is fantastic, he just sits with you and lazes around.. BUT if i have rus inside will it be bad for JP?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) This is just horrible... It may feel that way but it's only been one day. Stay calm. I'd allow JP as close to his normal routine as possible "for now" (ie until you can get in some help). Assuming each are 'indoor' dogs, I'd have Rusky in (eg) the laundry, separated (as far as sleeping quarters are concerned). Their exercise will be a bit of a juggle, but keep them from being able to 'get' at each other. This is not a 'behaviour modification' suggestion - more a suggestion for safety sake and prevention of 'learnt behaviour' becoming ingrained, which is the only thing that can be properly advised over the internet. I agree with the suggestions of crate training and leadership and that is also something a behaviourist would be able to assist you with. As a previous poster mentioned, moving house can be VERY unsettling for dogs and it does impact on heirarchy order. It will be important that you express your leadership to both dogs in ways they understand and acknowledge and it will serve best if this is investigated and if necessary, adjusted, urgently. Huski - thank you for the kind words . Edited October 17, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) i could have one inside. my issue there is though.. J.P being a energetic puppy just bounce's and never stops.... yet Rus is fantastic, he just sits with you and lazes around.. BUT if i have rus inside will it be bad for JP?????? In the short term, keeping them seperated sounds like the best solution. Huski - thank you for the kind words . No worries Erny MSB, if you haven't already, I'd PM Erny and see if consulting a behaviourist is an avenue you can explore atm. Edited October 17, 2008 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samodor Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Like a tonne of bricks it has hit us/me...we have bitten off far more than we can chew ... for the want of another term!!! Neither are inside dogs, to sleep anyhow. Both can come in for a awhile, but sleep outside. So the only option of seperation i have is one in garage and one to roam the garden. Now jp has had free roam of the garden, so should rus be put in the garage? 2. we have 2 kids, 5 cats..... i just didnt think rus would be like this, but now thinking why wouldnt he. the poor boy. I must come across like a complete idiot but please understand i think my love for animals has for once done me an injustice *sighs* we are still in the midst of training JP. he came to us with little training..... so to add this kind of extensive behaviour issues that rus must have (and it seems only toward JP) im worried we cant do it. I know i may be just a bit frazzled... i just want what is best for both of them... i honestly thought we were going to be... thanks you Erny... your advice is appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Like a tonne of bricks it has hit us/me...we have bitten off far more than we can chew ... for the want of another term!!! Sounds more to me as though you are panicking. Take a breath .... relax. No biggy - you simply have two dogs that for the short interim you need to keep separated. Neither are inside dogs, to sleep anyhow. Both can come in for a awhile, but sleep outside. So the only option of seperation i have is one in garage and one to roam the garden. Now jp has had free roam of the garden, so should rus be put in the garage? Let JP do what he's used to atm - he stay outside. Rusky in the garage (make sure there's no chemicals he can get into). I must come across like a complete idiot but please understand i think my love for animals has for once done me an injustice No .... just sounds to me as though you've gotten yourself into a bigger 'state' than you need to be in :D. Be calm. Be assertive. Breath. ... so to add this kind of extensive behaviour issues that rus must have (and it seems only toward JP) ... Firstly - you don't know if the behaviour is "extensive" - it might be more readily resolved than you think. No one can tell you that though without having had the opportunity to see you and your dogs. im worried we cant do it. You don't know what TO do at the moment - I'd say that's why you're so worried about it. I know i may be just a bit frazzled... i just want what is best for both of them... i honestly thought we were going to be... And you just may well be. Put JP outside. Rusky in the garage. And you on the comfy lounge, feet up and wine in hand . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 MSB - if it makes you feel any better, I had my two separated for six weeks until I could trust them to run alone together. The main reason being my dog is quite a bully with new dogs, and our beagle was only a little pup - sometimes these things take time. They are the best of friends now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samodor Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Erny- read your reply after i PMd you. Thanks... you have calmed me down... i think your right. Ok, JP is outside, and Rus is in the garage. Rus is fretting i can tell, but i spose you would be being in a new place.... and from what i can tell this is an all too normal scene for little rus, and proberly not from his own doing.... i just wish i knew his history. If only he could talk!!!!!!!!! Ok, im going to try and get some rest. If you can let me know about the training thank you. YOU HAVE BEEN INVALUABLE tonight!!!!!!!!!! and to everyone else, you have all helped too... THANK YOU SO MUCH... I truly truly truly do hope we can be his last stop, and forever home.... i really do!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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