cowanbree Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I have a 5yr old bitch who has been spayed for around 3 years. During this time we have ongoing issues with bleeding about 6mths apart but swabs proved inconclusive as to cause. This time we obviously took the swab at the correct time and it has estrogen in it which means it is likely she has a small bit of ovarian tissue left behind when she was spayed. My first reaction was it would have to be corrected but my vet said it is like looking for a needle in a haystack and is a major operation so has advised against it. I have a number of entire dogs and a bitch in season creates havoc so I would really like it fixed. Has anyone else had this issue and had it corrected? Was it easily found and was it a major operation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 In order for your bitch to bleed there would need to be remaining endometrial tissue. I would presume that your bitch has endometriosis with endometrial tissue that is either in the cervix or vagina. Otherwise where is the blood coming from? In order for a dog to come on heat hormones come into play. Yes maybe some of the ovarian tissue was left that may be causing it but I am wondering if the brain or some other part of the body is realeasing hormones that could trigger this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Perhaps a contraceptive would be useful instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Would it be worth thinking about Suprelorin for this girl?? I do know Vets who have gone looking for leftover bits of Ovary (in cats even) and have found it, so there is hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 To be honest I don’t fully understand how there is bleeding considering she is spayed. The incidences are roughly 6mths apart, there is no swelling but she has a slight bloody discharge which is not a UTI (tested for via urine multiple times), shows no sign of infection via the swab but does contain estrogen. She is apparently quite inflamed and sore looking just inside her vagina. As far as the dogs are concerned she is in full season. The vet said he has never struck this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Perhaps she has two uterus's? A human woman just gave birth to twins from different wombs - very rare but obviously possible. Or perhaps the vet did a shonky job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I guess you have to decide if you want the vet to open her up and go looking for any missed reproductive tissue or you try her on contraception. I probably would try the surgery first, if she is a fit heatlhy dog. Would it be worth thinking about Suprelorin for this girl?? Isn't this for male dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I guess you have to decide if you want the vet to open her up and go looking for any missed reproductive tissue or you try her on contraception. I probably would try the surgery first, if she is a fit heatlhy dog. Would it be worth thinking about Suprelorin for this girl?? Isn't this for male dogs? Can be used on bitches and has been quite successfully, just depends on hormone levels as to when you can give it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 To be honest I don’t fully understand how there is bleeding considering she is spayed. The incidences are roughly 6mths apart, there is no swelling but she has a slight bloody discharge which is not a UTI (tested for via urine multiple times), shows no sign of infection via the swab but does contain estrogen. She is apparently quite inflamed and sore looking just inside her vagina. As far as the dogs are concerned she is in full season. The vet said he has never struck this before. If your Vet has never struck this before then I would be looking for a Repro specialist who has, or take her to a Specialist Centre where the anaesthetic monitoring techniques will be top notch. FWIW I would go back in to have a look too. If you are in Vic I can make recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Endometriosis is a human condition, not affecting dogs. The most likely scenario is that there is some ovarian tissue left behind as well as some of the uterus. Leaving behind some of the uterus causes no problems, unless ovarian tissue is also left - its when both are left that you get continuing seasons with bleeding. Might I suggest you seek a second opinion from another vet? I do find it a little odd the vet in question would recommend against the surgery as it leaves the girl open to all the problems that you can encounter from leaving a bitch entire (cancers, attracting males; and stump pyometra is also a risk). Surgery is best done when she is in season as the tissue is much easier to see - it glows I have heard of cases where a bitch was taken to another vet to have them find the tissue, only to discover she was never spayed in the first place. We had a young male kitten come to board with us, and discovered it had testicles (and spraying!). The owners had a desexing certificate from their vet. Clearly it never got done.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Endometriosis is a human condition, not affecting dogs. With respect, I have witnessed Vets diagnose this during a Spey, often coupled with polycystic ovaries and other abnormalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 I am in NZ and unfortunately we don’t have repro vets here. My vet is a great vet but lacks the specialist knowledge that would be handy in cases like this. My first reaction was to operate as she is a fit and health dog but the bitch has had reoccurring UTI since a baby as a result of a pouch just inside the entrance where the urine pools. She has had multiple surgeries to correct this and I am conscious of the fact that she has never really been normal in that region and has a lot of scaring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) Endometriosis is a human condition, not affecting dogs. With respect, I have witnessed Vets diagnose this during a Spey, often coupled with polycystic ovaries and other abnormalities. I stand corrected. Can you tell me more - as in how was it diagnosed? Were they looking for ectopic tissue in particular? I've heard of and seen endometritis, but never endometriosis. Edited March 3, 2009 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Endometriosis is a human condition, not affecting dogs. With respect, I have witnessed Vets diagnose this during a Spey, often coupled with polycystic ovaries and other abnormalities. Would you be able to explain how it causes bleeding? I was always of the understanding that the blood of a season comes from the uterus linings which obviously is no longer there in this case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Endometriosis is a human condition, not affecting dogs. With respect, I have witnessed Vets diagnose this during a Spey, often coupled with polycystic ovaries and other abnormalities. Would you be able to explain how it causes bleeding? I was always of the understanding that the blood of a season comes from the uterus linings which obviously is no longer there in this case It is quite possible there is uterine tissue remaining. Like I said before, if some uterine tissue is left in a 'normal' spay, there are no ill effects. However if there is some ovarian tissue also remaining, thats when you get bleeding. You only need a small amount of each left to cause ongoing seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Endometriosis is a human condition, not affecting dogs. With respect, I have witnessed Vets diagnose this during a Spey, often coupled with polycystic ovaries and other abnormalities. Would you be able to explain how it causes bleeding? I was always of the understanding that the blood of a season comes from the uterus linings which obviously is no longer there in this case The uterus lining is made up of endometrial tissue. In endometriosis the uterus lining (endometrial tissue) is not only contained in the uterus but can be in other parts of the body. No mater where the endometrial tissue is it will still go through it's cycle or bleeding if it has hormones to activate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Endometriosis is a human condition, not affecting dogs. With respect, I have witnessed Vets diagnose this during a Spey, often coupled with polycystic ovaries and other abnormalities. Would you be able to explain how it causes bleeding? I was always of the understanding that the blood of a season comes from the uterus linings which obviously is no longer there in this case The uterus lining is made up of endometrial tissue. In endometriosis the uterus lining (endometrial tissue) is not only contained in the uterus but can be in other parts of the body. No mater where the endometrial tissue is it will still go through it's cycle or bleeding if it has hormones to activate it. The hormones would be coming from left over ovarian tissue. Simply put, get rid of that and you'll be fine!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2shoes Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 FWIW, a friend of mine had a golden bitch who was speyed but continued to come in season, albeit a little less than normally. All the associated issued came with it including attracting dogs etc. This was a while back now so I can't recall specifics I'm afraid. In any case, I know she was operated on again some time later, this time successfully. I would have to go for surgery in this sort of instance if it were me. And in all fairness, I believe that the vet who originally did the procedure, should bear the cost. JMHO w2s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I'll hold the quote, quote, quote...gets annoying after a while. The Endometriosis was seen in the abdominal cavity, they were red, white, and burnt lesions and lots of adhesions were seen as well, I have only ever heard it diagnosed on initial Speying. I went to (and should have) edit that post and say that I agree with Stormie that Endo lesions are not likely to be your girls problem, just that I have seen it diagnosed is all. Endo lesions are thought to make their own oestrogen in humans, thus when a human female has a hysterectomy if the lesions are not removed then continued pain can be the result. But I have never read that Endo lesions on their own have caused women to continue cycling. Perhaps PM Charles Kuntz (if his inbox is not already full! ) and ask for his recommendation??? Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Interesting! Thanks Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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