Chasing Cats In The House

[Ms James]

Hello, oh wise ones! ;) Wondered if you could help me out with some advice.

My girl, Bella (scruffy white kelpie X in my sig, 5 yrs old), is a fantastic dog. She's got great obedience, fantastic recall (can recall her when she's barrelling off into the distance chasing leaves), reliable sits & waits, etc etc. She's generally fairly well behaved, although does have her goofy moments. I like to train her in play drive, as she's incredibly ball focused and anything that has a squeak is of extremely high value for her.

My problem, so far, has been her chasing our kitties. We have three of our own, and 1 foster kitten. As Bella and Rove are both indoor dogs, we can understand that quarters can be a little close sometimes...but if a cat decides to do zoomies for any reason, Bella clicks straight into prey mode and will chase until the cat is either cornered or safely over the babygate to another area of the house. She also has a habit of stalking our foster kitten.

While I have no doubt that Bella would come off worst in any close encounter with the cats - as many bleeding muzzles can attest to - I do feel that this is a behaviour I'd like to curtail. While my boy, Roggie, was still alive - and top dog - she didn't really pay too much attention to the cats, but since we had him PTS and she's moved up a position in the pack, her behaviour has escalated to the point where 2 of the cats no longer come out of the "demilitarised" zone.

Is there a way I can keep the peace in the household? Given that I may not be in the room at the time that she clicks into prey drive (but can easily hear the chase happening), I've thought about using an e collar to break her off the pursuit and hopefully she'd learn that chasing the cats is not on. However (and this is a big however), the cost involved with purchasing an e collar are fairly prohibitive and thought I might seek out some alternatives instead.

That being said, I have found a place that can lease a PetSafe e collar for $70 for 2 weeks. Is it too ambitious to think that something as strong as a prey drive can be corrected in 2 weeks?

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this

[Nekhbet]

It definately can ... it is something though that requires drive suppression work and an e collar can be handy though the smart thing to do would be to get the dog ignoring the e-collar first - otherwise as soon as its off the drive returns ;)

[Ms James]

Do you mean ignoring the collar when there's a stim happening? Or having one of those empty stim collar box thingies that you can get?

[Cosmolo]

Yes if you are going to hire one for a short period only- use a dummy collar for some time first. I wold also suggest you have someone show you how to use the e collar correctly.

[Aidan]

I like to train her in play drive, as she's incredibly ball focused and anything that has a squeak is of extremely high value for her.

Do you train her in play drive inside the house?

We get more of what we reinforce, which is a double-edged sword. If you have a dog who will "switch on" any time, any place, then it's harder to have a dog who switches off when time and place suggest it appropriate. As part of my routine, and my rules of daily life, the house is a quiet place. The dogs lay on mats, or in crates. If they want to chase cats (and one of my dogs is an avid cat chaser, in a friendly and playful way), they can do that outside.

When my working line GSD came to me as a pup she was very interested in the cats and a few weeks later I was quite certain they were going to end up on the menu. I clicker trained the cats to find somewhere out of reach and to sit still. I trained the pup to do calm, obedient things around the cats. Pretty soon they became part of the family and each accepted the other (and in fact, they made up their own rules of engagement and get along extraordinarily well).

I also gave the cats plenty of escape options so that chasing the cats in the house was never really reinforced. They would either go up high and sit still, or slip through a door, which would be held open using a 150mm cabin hook so that only the cats could get through. Chasing them inside was never any fun. I clicker trained the cats to go high and sit still, cats are quite easy to train and if it works for them they will do something reliably.

I must admit, one dog and one cat do have a game they enjoy in the living room, where the cat will sit on top of a tall wine rack and flick her tail, then scuttle along the window sills and behind the couch. The dog will chase, but when the cat gets to the TV the game stops. They figured this out themselves and it didn't do any harm so I have let it happen, in fact I think it is quite healthy and reinforces boundaries. If the dog ever gets vocal or tries to jump up (which might scratch the walls), I pop her in her crate. It doesn't happen very often so I guess the time-out is reasonably effective.

I also like to call her to me, or have her drop every so often during this game. Just to use this distraction.

Anyway, you asked for thoughts on the e-collar for two weeks? I'm not sure how you plan to use it. What criteria will you use and what training will it complement? Hitting the button in the hopes of "kicking her out of prey drive" sounds a bit too wishful to me, particularly if you are not in the room and are going off what you can hear.

A dog in full prey drive will put up with an awful lot of pain sometimes. As you have noted, several bleeding muzzles hasn't done anything to curtail the problem so far so you will have to be smart about it. I have read on this forum that corrections suppress drive, which is overly simplified, corrections can be used to increase drive. We always have to look at operant and respondent outcomes first.

It might be a longer term plan, but I would be looking at ways to set up the environment in your favour (you already have baby gates; high cat trees and cabin hooks on doors are other options), use time-outs (immediately takes the dog out of drive with no risk), and reinforce calm behaviour around the cats, and also whenever indoors. Use food instead of play (indoors), no sense in trying to keep a "calm inside the house rule" if you're the one who breaks it!

[Staranais]

A dog in full prey drive will put up with an awful lot of pain sometimes. As you have noted, several bleeding muzzles hasn't done anything to curtail the problem so far so you will have to be smart about it. I have read on this forum that corrections suppress drive, which is overly simplified, corrections can be used to increase drive. We always have to look at operant and respondent outcomes first.

Yes, Aidan is right in this. I'm sure you can use a e-collar to teach the dog that the cats aren't appropriate drive objects, but it would be best to get someone to teach you how to use it properly, if you had access to someone who has experience with that type of thing.

My last dog was a cat chaser who had killed a cat before I got him (they didn't tell me till they'd handed him over, nice huh?) I did basically the same as Aidan describes with making the house a calm zone where he was initially only allowed to sit on his bed, plus I interrupted/corrected & redirected him the very minute he started to look at the cats in a predatory fashion. It worked really well, probably because we started doing it the minute he came to my house, and he therefore had no experience of success chasing my cats, as far as he knew it simply wasn't an option. Even getting fired up to chase can be reinforcing to a dog in prey drive, they don't need to actually catch the cat for the behaviour to be rewarding. So if your dog has a history of chasing your cats, it will be harder to break him of it IMO, and the longer you let it go on, the harder it will get.

Good luck.

[Ms James]

I like to train her in play drive, as she's incredibly ball focused and anything that has a squeak is of extremely high value for her.

A dog in full prey drive will put up with an awful lot of pain sometimes. As you have noted, several bleeding muzzles hasn't done anything to curtail the problem so far so you will have to be smart about it. I have read on this forum that corrections suppress drive, which is overly simplified, corrections can be used to increase drive. We always have to look at operant and respondent outcomes first.

It might be a longer term plan, but I would be looking at ways to set up the environment in your favour (you already have baby gates; high cat trees and cabin hooks on doors are other options), use time-outs (immediately takes the dog out of drive with no risk), and reinforce calm behaviour around the cats, and also whenever indoors. Use food instead of play (indoors), no sense in trying to keep a "calm inside the house rule" if you're the one who breaks it!

Keeping the house a calm zone is a really good point, we do allow her to play with her toys in the house (she likes to shake them roughly). We do do drills in the house just to keep her mind active, I'll definitely start to use food and not throw toys around for her :D

A dog in full prey drive will put up with an awful lot of pain sometimes. As you have noted, several bleeding muzzles hasn't done anything to curtail the problem so far so you will have to be smart about it. I have read on this forum that corrections suppress drive, which is overly simplified, corrections can be used to increase drive. We always have to look at operant and respondent outcomes first.

Yes, Aidan is right in this. I'm sure you can use a e-collar to teach the dog that the cats aren't appropriate drive objects, but it would be best to get someone to teach you how to use it properly, if you had access to someone who has experience with that type of thing.

My last dog was a cat chaser who had killed a cat before I got him (they didn't tell me till they'd handed him over, nice huh?) I did basically the same as Aidan describes with making the house a calm zone where he was initially only allowed to sit on his bed, plus I interrupted/corrected & redirected him the very minute he started to look at the cats in a predatory fashion. It worked really well, probably because we started doing it the minute he came to my house, and he therefore had no experience of success chasing my cats, as far as he knew it simply wasn't an option. Even getting fired up to chase can be reinforcing to a dog in prey drive, they don't need to actually catch the cat for the behaviour to be rewarding. So if your dog has a history of chasing your cats, it will be harder to break him of it IMO, and the longer you let it go on, the harder it will get.

Good luck.

Yep, have a couple of trainers that I can go to to learn how to use it effectively

Thanks for the tips

[NaturallyWild]

Have a look at this:

How to cure cat-chasing dog

[Snappahead]

Correct me if I'm wrong (still new to all of this), but wouldn't be training in play drive actually be training in prey drive in this circumstance? I was under the impression dogs chase balls because of their instinct to pursue prey, rather than just to play. I know it's a game for them so they are playing, but the unconditioned response you may reinforcing could be the dogs prey drive by rewarding her with a ball. Don't know if that's part of the problem or not, but something worth considering.