ClareL Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I have a jack russel X. He is not well trained (he can sit drop shake but thats about it) he has no interest in toys but he loves walks and sniffing around he pulls like crazy so I couldn't say he was under control on his walks and we certainly can't let him oof lead. I have been told he would be happier if he had jobs to do so i thought running through tunnels and over sea saws and things might be something he would like to do. My question is can you do it with a poorly trained dog? Obviously he couldn't do it at a club I was just thinking of setting some things up in the backyard for him to use. Any suggestions or ideas of other things for him would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Why not do some obedience training and then do agility training for real?? A dog that doesn't listen and focus on you is going to be virtually impossible to train on obstacles, even in your back yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClareL Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 He has been to obediance training group and private. I have been told he is highly reward driven if it is too hard to get the reward he gives up. He can be trained to do things he can repeat a lot (sit drop shake) but if you want him to go outside, come back, get off the couch he would prefer to do what he wants than get the reward. I imagine getting him to walk over a plank or run through a tunnel should be like sit/drop he is getting attention so he is happy to do it. Our basic aim is for him to have more to do than walks, he is terrible at walks and we figure if he can get some exercise before walks he might be a little better and not so excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripip Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Hi I take my dog to the local kennel club. They teach obedience and we all start out the same; either with little puppies that jump around or dogs like yours. They have been fabulous! You can then go on to further things!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I agree with poodlefan if you actually want to use obstacles. Some obedience and certainly off lead control and recall is necessary for agility. If not trained properly, some of the equipment can cause injury or fear. Some self control is also necessary and important in a pet as well. More training on basics will help with walking and leash manners as well. You can use walks as a training time, not just exercise you can build up the amount of work the dog does before he gets the reward. There are lots of tricks you can teach if your aim is simply to do something other than walking, that do not require equipment like agility does. Clicker training is a great method for training tricks, and can be very useful for agility as well. Teaching a dog to target your hand or other things is fun, easy and useful, and I think there is a trick section of this forum as well? that has ideas for tricks you can train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) Is it possible to do agility with a poorly trained dog? Yes, but it is generally not fun for the handler, the dog or the other people & dogs you are training with. Is it possible to take a poorly trained dog and teach it to focus & enjoy agility? Absolutely, but it takes a lot of time, patience & a willingness for the person to learn. Agility is much more than just running over obstacles for a reward. I would say it would be quite difficult for a person with a poorly trained dog to effectively teach agility in their own backyard. I don't mean this to sound rude, but some of the skills needed for agility are much more complex than basic manners, so it is unlikely that someone whose dog does not have basic manners will be able to teach them agility without some help. Where are you located? Maybe a small group or one on one training situation would be more suitable than a large club situation before you start agility? Agility is fun, both for the dog and handler, but it certainly requires some homework between classes. I sometimes get people who want lessons with a dog who is not yet operant. That's what we work on first, and depending how much time they put in between lessons, it can be weeks before they ever see an obstacle. Some work hard & progress quickly, others just leave as they just want to run over obstacles. I think it is possible to take a poorly trained dog & turn it into a fantastic dog who loves agility, it just depends on how much you want it & how much effort you are prepared to put in to achieve it. Edited August 24, 2009 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClareL Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) We have put a great amount of effort into lead training (and a year of it) we have got no where. He has had a halti no pull harness and he will remove the halti in under 3 seconds and walks sides ways in the no pull harness. There is no way he can go off lead its too dangerous. Our other dog is really well trained walks almost prefectly, better off lead than on so its not just a case of us not training him my trainer says she has a dog like him and he is incredibly difficult for her. He was 1 and 1/2 when we got him and knew nothing. The reason I am interested in agility is he tried a tunnel at training once and he really seemed to enjoy it and it is something he can do in the safety of the backyard. The other dog plays fetch and stuff and i know he gets jealous of the attention as he will chase and try to bite him if we play when we first get home. I dont want to compete and i think it will be harder training in a group as I have been told the group training for obediance is not possible with him as he is a special case. (They dont allow enough time for him to achieve the task and normal training methods haven't worked) Thanks for all suggestions Edited August 24, 2009 by ClareL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Clare did say she just wanted to do agility at home. You could set up some small jumps and see if he will jump over them on lead. It probably wouldn't take much effort to get him through a tunnel either. I took my puppy class into our puppy obedience course yesterday and they were going through tunnels, tyres and over small dog walks pretty quickly. All on lead and just for some fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 FWIW Clare, I would NEVER do any obstacles with a dog & especially not a puppy on lead. Not only is it teaching them the wrong body language, it is almost impossible not to accidently correct them with the leash at some point for taking obstacles. not fun at all. If you are doing things at home, leave your lead off, please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClareL Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) Yeah in the backyard he can be off lead, thanks for the tip also he is 2 and a half we think Edited August 24, 2009 by ClareL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 FWIW Clare, I would NEVER do any obstacles with a dog & especially not a puppy on lead. Not only is it teaching them the wrong body language, it is almost impossible not to accidently correct them with the leash at some point for taking obstacles. not fun at all. If you are doing things at home, leave your lead off, please... Yep, what Vickie said. No obstacles should be done on lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I disagree but what ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClareL Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 The lead think probably doesn't matter with him as he pulls so he is very use to it being tight and wouldn't see it as a correction. He is a bit of try it and see how it works kind of dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I think some one on one lessons would be beneficial for you to get the lead walking under control. Any dog can be trained to walk well on lead, you just need to know a good technique. That is where someone showing you and watching you and helping you can be very helpful. Equipment like harnesses, haltis and correction collars can help you to teach the dog to walk well, but technique is more important the the equipment you put on the dog. I still think tricks would fill the gap that you would like to fill with your dog better than agility Tricks are a lot of fun too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClareL Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 As I said earlier he has had one on one training for the walking many times. I am yet to find a technique that works, I have read through this forum for new techniques for ages no luck and everyone he has been to says they can fix it it only results in him not getting walked and to the point of explosion with energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Clare exactly what do you wish to accomplish using agility equipment. I'm having some difficulty understanding how you expect your dog to do obstacles on cue offlead when you say that you have no control when he is offlead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Who have you seen regarding walking on lead? A reputable trainer should definitely be able to help you with that, it is a very common question that they would see all the time. What did the people you see recommend? Did you follow their instructions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Who have you seen regarding walking on lead? A reputable trainer should definitely be able to help you with that, it is a very common question that they would see all the time. What did the people you see recommend? Did you follow their instructions? I agree, reputable trainer will have a dog walking on a loose leash in 15 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClareL Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) He is alright when he has no distractions and no where to go (hence backyard) I am only expecting he will do it when i am there right next to him to coax him over/through because he seemed to like runnning through a tunnel (one of us putting him through other meeting him at other end) Also he can walk along the top of a fence and likes climbing (normally to escape but he is now trapped) I am not expecting to time him doing it or that he could go from one thing to the next without me leading him there, just something I could spend time with him doing even if i have to run my hand across a walk with a treat so he will do it. All I want to achieve is to do something other than walks with him. If he fails he fails no big deal. But it is fine I have looked around the site and found things I can build for him to have a go. I was just hoping for someother peoples idea on how to get him to go over/through things. He has done the no walking if he pulls/ change direction if he pulls/ treating when he is next to my leg so he things its a good place to be. I have spent a significant amount of money and time with good trainers all who said they could fix it. All have told me I am doing the correct thing picked on my timing and all that as I said the other dog walks pretty much perfect but not this one. I certainly wont be going to a trainer that says they can fix it in 20 minutes because that simply isn't true. Also I wont name the trainers I know how things go on dol they did try really hard and they did achieve some things with him he is just very difficult. He is only a little dog so pulling isn't a huge issue but after several weeks of him not getting a walk or only walking in circles he got quite depressed and its not worth that. I have accepted he will never be a well trained dog I just thought he might like this as it seems more natural to him due to his climbing skills. Thanks for everyones input Edited August 24, 2009 by ClareL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) He has done the no walking if he pulls/ change direction if he pulls/ treating when he is next to my leg so he things its a good place to be. I have spent a significant amount of money and time with good trainers all who said they could fix it. All have told me I am doing the correct thing picked on my timing and all that as I said the other dog walks pretty much perfect but not this one. I certainly wont be going to a trainer that says they can fix it in 20 minutes because that simply isn't true. Also I wont name the trainers I know how things go on dol they did try really hard and they did achieve some things with him he is just very difficult. I didn't say a trainer would fix it in 15 minutes, I said they would have the dog walking on a loose leash in fifteen minutes. Fixing the problem (i.e. getting him to walk on a loose leash with you, all the time) would take a little bit longer. I would be dubious of any trainer who failed to teach a client to get their dog to walk on a loose leash, it would have to be one of the most common and basic problems they would encounter with clients. There is no such thing as a dog who cannot be taught to walk on a loose leash (unless the client failed to follow through with the training program they gave them). Are you in Vic? There are plenty of reputable trainers on DOL who service that area, who I am sure would be able to get your dog walking on a loose leash in no time :D Edited August 24, 2009 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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