Seita Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Go figure, every session I've done since I posted this she's got the leather with no issues whatsoever!! But I do have another question about scent discrimination after having a good read of the rules yesterday. I know you get penalised for every incorrect article that a dog picks up and currently Ella tends to grab at virtually every single one until she gets the right one. I know she is inexperienced and I find that the more I train this the less she does it. Especially in the same session, the first one she will go for every article on there and then by the time I send her out for the last one she doesn't tend to grab as much. My question is with practice do you think (from your experiences) that she will depend more on her nose and stop with the grabbing of articles? She doesn't bring them back she just picks them up and drops them again and most of the time only brings the right ones back. But obviously I want her to stop picking them up as she'll run out of points super quick if she keeps doing this. Is there any way I can discourage her from doing this or should I just wait and let her figure it out? Hi Seita, As time goes on she will get better with it.. What ever you do, do not growl at this learning stage.. ignore it, cause when she is more confident in what she is doing she will stop grabbing every one. (this only my opinion other might have a different view on it) Have fun in UD, I sometime wish that I was back doing UD instead of UDX.... grrrrrrrrr multiple retrieves is my noghtmare... I can't point straight to something that I can't see, so why should my boy go straight... Thanks Kallistar, That was my thinking too that as she gets more confident at it she will do less of the grabbing. I don't tell dogs off when they are learning so I had no intention of using an actual correction but I was wondering if there was a way to discourage it.... ... now that I think about it when I was training her to encourage her to actually use her nose rather than just retrieve it was suggested to use random other items amoungst the articles to make it harder to simply grab something. Maybe I could go back to adding some cans and stuff to the pile of articles and see if that makes her use her nose more and then phase them out... Feel free to give me some opinions!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathq Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 We are just learning this stuff as well and used an adapted version of the scout method to teach it. The ignoring when picking up the wrong thing seemed to work for us though she actually brought it back to me as well. Now a bit further in to the training we have managed four days in a row with no mistakes (even today in quite a strong breeze) and I can actually hear her snort and snuffle as she works the articles. Sounds a bit like a pig in the trough :D We really went in huge leaps when I trained inside and scattered lounge cushions on the floor starting with one article first in plain view and then hid it under a cushion to try and make her use her nose. Increased the number of articles and ignored her if she brought the visible/wrong one huge reward when she found the scented article under cushions. Gradually removed cushions and had all articles then in plain view. Havent looked back since. Its probably basic stuff for the more advanced people out there but it worked for this pair of novices. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Go figure, every session I've done since I posted this she's got the leather with no issues whatsoever!! My question is with practice do you think (from your experiences) that she will depend more on her nose and stop with the grabbing of articles? She doesn't bring them back she just picks them up and drops them again and most of the time only brings the right ones back. But obviously I want her to stop picking them up as she'll run out of points super quick if she keeps doing this. Is there any way I can discourage her from doing this or should I just wait and let her figure it out? Hi Seita, As time goes on she will get better with it.. What ever you do, do not growl at this learning stage.. ignore it, cause when she is more confident in what she is doing she will stop grabbing every one. (this only my opinion other might have a different view on it) Have fun in UD, I sometime wish that I was back doing UD instead of UDX.... grrrrrrrrr multiple retrieves is my noghtmare... I can't point straight to something that I can't see, so why should my boy go straight... Thanks Kallistar, That was my thinking too that as she gets more confident at it she will do less of the grabbing. I don't tell dogs off when they are learning so I had no intention of using an actual correction but I was wondering if there was a way to discourage it.... ... now that I think about it when I was training her to encourage her to actually use her nose rather than just retrieve it was suggested to use random other items amoungst the articles to make it harder to simply grab something. Maybe I could go back to adding some cans and stuff to the pile of articles and see if that makes her use her nose more and then phase them out... Feel free to give me some opinions!! :D Hi Sieta, If you throw the article, does she go and retrieve it? If you throw a "hot" (scented) article not far from a cold article does she find it and bring it back confidently? Don't make things too hard for her otherwise she will pack her bags and leave home LOL. Once she is retrieving your Hot items with confedience then maybe add few things for distractions. Also JMO don't do the seekback and then the Scent descrim exercises.. scent work can be taxing for a "green" dog BABY STEPS.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Go figure, every session I've done since I posted this she's got the leather with no issues whatsoever!! My question is with practice do you think (from your experiences) that she will depend more on her nose and stop with the grabbing of articles? She doesn't bring them back she just picks them up and drops them again and most of the time only brings the right ones back. But obviously I want her to stop picking them up as she'll run out of points super quick if she keeps doing this. Is there any way I can discourage her from doing this or should I just wait and let her figure it out? Hi Seita, As time goes on she will get better with it.. What ever you do, do not growl at this learning stage.. ignore it, cause when she is more confident in what she is doing she will stop grabbing every one. (this only my opinion other might have a different view on it) Have fun in UD, I sometime wish that I was back doing UD instead of UDX.... grrrrrrrrr multiple retrieves is my noghtmare... I can't point straight to something that I can't see, so why should my boy go straight... Thanks Kallistar, That was my thinking too that as she gets more confident at it she will do less of the grabbing. I don't tell dogs off when they are learning so I had no intention of using an actual correction but I was wondering if there was a way to discourage it.... ... now that I think about it when I was training her to encourage her to actually use her nose rather than just retrieve it was suggested to use random other items amoungst the articles to make it harder to simply grab something. Maybe I could go back to adding some cans and stuff to the pile of articles and see if that makes her use her nose more and then phase them out... Feel free to give me some opinions!! Hi Sieta, If you throw the article, does she go and retrieve it? If you throw a "hot" (scented) article not far from a cold article does she find it and bring it back confidently? Don't make things too hard for her otherwise she will pack her bags and leave home LOL. Once she is retrieving your Hot items with confedience then maybe add few things for distractions. Also JMO don't do the seekback and then the Scent descrim exercises.. scent work can be taxing for a "green" dog BABY STEPS.. She works a full set of articles without any problems. Its just when she is working, while sniffing the articles she picks them up and then puts them back down. She doesn't bring them back to me, she just picks them up and puts them back down until she finds the right one which she brings back to me. I might try to video her doing this so you can see what I mean! I assume she will stop picking them up as she gets more confident but at the same time am worried that she'll form a habit of doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Hi Seita, how is the scent discremination going? I know that I am in UDX, but gee it would of been nice for my boy to actually bring back the judges scented cloth (which he indicated a couple of times) and not the one next to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 She is still mouthing the other articles as she sniffs them but is not picking them up as much as she was. She usually finds the right article pretty quickly but then goes and checks everything else first before bringing the right one back. I'm about to go out and do another session now, we haven't done one for a few days (letting the articles air out a bit) so we'll see how we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Hi Seita, Just thougt that I'd ask how your scent discremination going? Have you worked through the issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 Hi Seita, Just thougt that I'd ask how your scent discremination going? Have you worked through the issues? ISH!! She brings the correct one back all the time now, I can't remember the last time she brought the wrong one back. She just picks up random articles still and then puts them down and eventually brings the right one back. I find that the more often I practise this (say once every day or two) she does it less but if it's been a while (say a week) she will do more of the picking up and putting down thing. I anticipate that if I just keep practising it she will eventually stop picking up articles while she is searching and only pick up the right one once... otherwise we're going to get a lot of substantials when we start trialling!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitza Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) edited i managed to work it out,by going back to basics and so far so good, early days though, only doing practise hold on each article and short fetches with one of each, than i will slowly add them together, but very slowly. Clicker training is helping with this too. Edited October 16, 2009 by Blitza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 how do i stop a dog mouthing the wood article? as he thinks its a stick to chew on LOL I would tell you if I knew! You should see some of my woods! There is a reason why I have training sets and competition sets... seeing as we aren't ready to compete yet the competition sets are still in mint condition until she learns to stop destroying the articles!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitza Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 how do i stop a dog mouthing the wood article? as he thinks its a stick to chew on LOL I would tell you if I knew! You should see some of my woods! There is a reason why I have training sets and competition sets... seeing as we aren't ready to compete yet the competition sets are still in mint condition until she learns to stop destroying the articles!!! why do they need wood, poor dogs total confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 how do i stop a dog mouthing the wood article? as he thinks its a stick to chew on LOL I would tell you if I knew! You should see some of my woods! There is a reason why I have training sets and competition sets... seeing as we aren't ready to compete yet the competition sets are still in mint condition until she learns to stop destroying the articles!!! why do they need wood, poor dogs total confusion no confusion with my dog, she chews all the articles even the leathers have teeth marks! It doesn't stop her bringing them back though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitza Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 how do i stop a dog mouthing the wood article? as he thinks its a stick to chew on LOL I would tell you if I knew! You should see some of my woods! There is a reason why I have training sets and competition sets... seeing as we aren't ready to compete yet the competition sets are still in mint condition until she learns to stop destroying the articles!!! why do they need wood, poor dogs total confusion no confusion with my dog, she chews all the articles even the leathers have teeth marks! It doesn't stop her bringing them back though! doncha hate that! I got 2 years to train my boy up for UD as i plan to trial him in UD in 2yrs time hehe if we make it in time. Im not teaching articles with my pup until she is reliable with the dumbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hi Seita, Just thougt that I'd ask how your scent discremination going? Have you worked through the issues? ISH!! She brings the correct one back all the time now, I can't remember the last time she brought the wrong one back. She just picks up random articles still and then puts them down and eventually brings the right one back. I find that the more often I practise this (say once every day or two) she does it less but if it's been a while (say a week) she will do more of the picking up and putting down thing. I anticipate that if I just keep practising it she will eventually stop picking up articles while she is searching and only pick up the right one once... otherwise we're going to get a lot of substantials when we start trialling!!! Sorry Seita for not responding sooner.. Sound like you're on the right track for her. Every dog is different and have different requirements and this goes for how many training sessions that you need to do. But do make sure that you do make a big fuss when she does the right thing. Even if you only do one article it is better than doing all three and getting no where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kallistar Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 how do i stop a dog mouthing the wood article? as he thinks its a stick to chew on LOL I would tell you if I knew! You should see some of my woods! There is a reason why I have training sets and competition sets... seeing as we aren't ready to compete yet the competition sets are still in mint condition until she learns to stop destroying the articles!!! why do they need wood, poor dogs total confusion no confusion with my dog, she chews all the articles even the leathers have teeth marks! It doesn't stop her bringing them back though! Have you thrown the article a long way from you and made it a game (this can be done after she has worked the pile and brought back the right one as the throw could be the game for her) ? Or when she has the right article, have you called her to you to get a quicker responce to come and get her reward? Just some ideas for you to think about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 how do i stop a dog mouthing the wood article? as he thinks its a stick to chew on LOL I would tell you if I knew! You should see some of my woods! There is a reason why I have training sets and competition sets... seeing as we aren't ready to compete yet the competition sets are still in mint condition until she learns to stop destroying the articles!!! why do they need wood, poor dogs total confusion no confusion with my dog, she chews all the articles even the leathers have teeth marks! It doesn't stop her bringing them back though! Have you thrown the article a long way from you and made it a game (this can be done after she has worked the pile and brought back the right one as the throw could be the game for her) ? Or when she has the right article, have you called her to you to get a quicker responce to come and get her reward? Just some ideas for you to think about Oh she brings them back alright, and quickly to be rewarded with her super awesome tug! She just chomps on them on the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hey blitza I was thinking about your chewing problem... could you go back to basics and get the dog to hold the wood article calmly and then reward him for holding it with a calm mouth and then gradually extend this to picking it up calmly, going out a fetching it calmly to eventually adding it back to the pile of scent articles??/ I think I might need to do similar with Ella to stop the chewing and chomping if it becomes too much of a problem. She isn't excessive most of the time, she does have her bad chewing days though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitza Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hey blitza I was thinking about your chewing problem... could you go back to basics and get the dog to hold the wood article calmly and then reward him for holding it with a calm mouth and then gradually extend this to picking it up calmly, going out a fetching it calmly to eventually adding it back to the pile of scent articles??/I think I might need to do similar with Ella to stop the chewing and chomping if it becomes too much of a problem. She isn't excessive most of the time, she does have her bad chewing days though. yes once i got my brain into working mode, i remembered what i was taught when doing dumbell many years ago so i know putting that into play , exactly what you have mentioned. Im only working with the 3 articles for know,and gradually building to the proper on the floor bizzo. Luckily he is young so got plenty of time, he is 4yrs old Good luck with your scent discrimination training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hey blitza I was thinking about your chewing problem... could you go back to basics and get the dog to hold the wood article calmly and then reward him for holding it with a calm mouth and then gradually extend this to picking it up calmly, going out a fetching it calmly to eventually adding it back to the pile of scent articles??/I think I might need to do similar with Ella to stop the chewing and chomping if it becomes too much of a problem. She isn't excessive most of the time, she does have her bad chewing days though. yes once i got my brain into working mode, i remembered what i was taught when doing dumbell many years ago so i know putting that into play , exactly what you have mentioned. Im only working with the 3 articles for know,and gradually building to the proper on the floor bizzo. Luckily he is young so got plenty of time, he is 4yrs old Good luck with your scent discrimination training. LOL it took me a while to get my brain into gear too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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