Are Our Breeds Changing As Our Needs Are Changing?

[alpha bet]

This is an interesting question and has been discussed in various forms thru various threads. Here is some thoughts to add.

Availability

Pet shops and Internet Puppy Farms have it easy - Perhaps we can push to stop the pet shops but the internet is a runaway freight train.

For most of the public the availability of pups from a registered breeder is difficult - many breeders restrict sale of pups and especially of breeding stock thus making it difficult for the world of show dogs to open up to new people. Breeders here have hammered my comments on this in previous threads as they vow never to allow their breed to be tarnished by the pet market. But how do they know that will happen?

Public Education

But is supplying quality dogs to new people who may wish to breed really a problem. Surely this could help to open up the education of the public. Each potential pet owner is out there in the public more than the average showing enthusiast. They take their one or two dogs to the parks, visit friends, sit in cafes. This allows the public access to see their dogs in an environment that shows the potential of our breeds as great family dogs. If all the public see on a day to day basis are the cross bred then how do they ever learn the difference.

As breeders we should be educating our pet owners to promote our breeds - and if the pet owner wishes to take the next step and breed then we should be there with advice and assistance not with contracts that give breeders the controls over the dog.

Breed Good Stock

Many breeders do a good job but, lets be honest, there are also many registered breeders who don't.

Many breeders say they are raising dogs in a family environment - where in truth the dogs may be raised in a whelping room and have limited experience. If a breeder has even 3-4 litters a year it can be very difficult to raise them in the home - you would be spending all year stepping over babies and picking up poop. If the breeder has employment and perhaps spends many weekends at dog shows - then how much time do they really get to spend raising the pups.

Bring in new people who might run one or two bitches. These can still be quality dogs and contribute to the gene pool perhaps they will only have a few litters in their life but they will have all the advantages of a family pet and can promote the great temperament to many more people.

Changes in the Breeds

Speaking on the GSD this was a breed that was originally breed to herd sheep - but the original breeders recognised the possible decline of the pastoral life so allowed the breed to adapt to suit the future. Hence the guarding was developed.

In the 80's we had many breeders of GSD who trained at the club and perhaps only had a few dogs who often lived most of the time with the family. These dogs were shown and breed and we could see how well they adapted to life - nowdays it is common to have the breeders operating out of kennel environments - Often these breeders dont really see how the pups with such high work drive are living in the homes they go to.

Heaven forbid! perhaps we do need to consider a change of direction for some.

Some Breeds are not for Family

If a breed does not have the right size, health or temperament for familys then they should not be promoted as such. Perhaps your breed is very subject to bloat - or has a shorter life span - or might require specialist care for high risk of eye problems - perhaps they are not robust enough for active family and subject to ligament damage. These can all make life in a family home a problem.

If they are a dog who suits family life then breeders should accept the responsibility to breed with the dog who has the type and has the right temperament to produce pups to be proud of. If you breed for one purpose the breed will lose out.

It is easy to be blinded to the love of our individual breeds - but be honest to. The public need to get access to our dogs but for the right reason.

[shellbyville]

Just to add to this discussion, I have spoken to quite a few people recently who truly do not understand that their "labradoodle" isn't a recognised pure bred dog. They have the understanding that it is 'pure breed' because it is from a supposedly pure bred lab and supposedly pure bred poodle, so of course it is a pure bred.

I think education on 'oodles' is essential and promotion of them from certain shows on TV haven't helped the situation.

I am sure there are some responsible cross bred breeders who do all the health testing etc, but they cannot ever produce something to a standard as there are just too many variables, pups will be produced that are more of one breed or the other,so you can get some labxpoodle that don't shed and another that does etc and you can get this variation in every litter, so there is no consistency and I think that is what the person buying the oodle just doesn't understand.

Promotion of purebred dogs needs to be pushed, somehow! Maybe encouraging people to come to dog shows, advertising dog shows locally to attract the public and then having stalls or something like that set up where people's questions and inquiries can be answered and then pointed in the right direction toward breeders.

Also we at shows need to appear much more approachable and friendly to the public at shows, I have had people come up to me and say that so & so wasn't friendly and brushed them off and didn't want to talk about their breed of dog. I understand they may have picked a bad time to talk such as when the exhibitor was getting ready for the ring, but surely we can be friendly, but that is a whole other topic!!!! :D

[GeckoTree]

Are Our Breeds Changing As Our Needs Are Changing?

I would very much hope so. But for good or bad would make a better debate.

Edited April 19, 2010 by GeckoTree

[mumof3]

This is an interesting question and has been discussed in various forms thru various threads. Here is some thoughts to add.

Availability

Pet shops and Internet Puppy Farms have it easy - Perhaps we can push to stop the pet shops but the internet is a runaway freight train.

For most of the public the availability of pups from a registered breeder is difficult - many breeders restrict sale of pups and especially of breeding stock thus making it difficult for the world of show dogs to open up to new people. Breeders here have hammered my comments on this in previous threads as they vow never to allow their breed to be tarnished by the pet market. But how do they know that will happen?

Public Education

But is supplying quality dogs to new people who may wish to breed really a problem. Surely this could help to open up the education of the public. Each potential pet owner is out there in the public more than the average showing enthusiast. They take their one or two dogs to the parks, visit friends, sit in cafes. This allows the public access to see their dogs in an environment that shows the potential of our breeds as great family dogs. If all the public see on a day to day basis are the cross bred then how do they ever learn the difference.

As breeders we should be educating our pet owners to promote our breeds - and if the pet owner wishes to take the next step and breed then we should be there with advice and assistance not with contracts that give breeders the controls over the dog.

Breed Good Stock

Many breeders do a good job but, lets be honest, there are also many registered breeders who don't.

Many breeders say they are raising dogs in a family environment - where in truth the dogs may be raised in a whelping room and have limited experience. If a breeder has even 3-4 litters a year it can be very difficult to raise them in the home - you would be spending all year stepping over babies and picking up poop. If the breeder has employment and perhaps spends many weekends at dog shows - then how much time do they really get to spend raising the pups.

Bring in new people who might run one or two bitches. These can still be quality dogs and contribute to the gene pool perhaps they will only have a few litters in their life but they will have all the advantages of a family pet and can promote the great temperament to many more people.

Changes in the Breeds

Speaking on the GSD this was a breed that was originally breed to herd sheep - but the original breeders recognised the possible decline of the pastoral life so allowed the breed to adapt to suit the future. Hence the guarding was developed.

In the 80's we had many breeders of GSD who trained at the club and perhaps only had a few dogs who often lived most of the time with the family. These dogs were shown and breed and we could see how well they adapted to life - nowdays it is common to have the breeders operating out of kennel environments - Often these breeders dont really see how the pups with such high work drive are living in the homes they go to.

Heaven forbid! perhaps we do need to consider a change of direction for some.

Some Breeds are not for Family

If a breed does not have the right size, health or temperament for familys then they should not be promoted as such. Perhaps your breed is very subject to bloat - or has a shorter life span - or might require specialist care for high risk of eye problems - perhaps they are not robust enough for active family and subject to ligament damage. These can all make life in a family home a problem.

If they are a dog who suits family life then breeders should accept the responsibility to breed with the dog who has the type and has the right temperament to produce pups to be proud of. If you breed for one purpose the breed will lose out.

It is easy to be blinded to the love of our individual breeds - but be honest to. The public need to get access to our dogs but for the right reason.

Excellent post.

[poodlefan]

I don't think societies needs have changed all that much.

I think what's changed is our attitude to and understanding of dogs. People seem to want them to be a one size fits all easy temperament in a range of attractive external packages, they want to find one without effort and in many cases resent being asked questions to establish their suitability to own one.

Once they've got one they don't want to put much effort into training it but expect that it will behave like the highly trained dogs they see on TV or in the movies.

To me, the further we live from nature and the less we share our lives with animals, the more we seem to expect that they should just fit in with what we want and that no sacrifices should be necessary to own one. Failure to understand the needs of a dog and the specific temperaments and needs of particular breeds sees so many dogs offloaded. Dogs lives are more isolated, restricted and controlled these days than at any time in the past.

Frankly for a lot of puppy buyers out there, the ideal dog probably looks like this:

And sadly, there are folk out there selling pups who are prepared to tell buyers that a live dog is no more work than that. :D

Its not dogs that need to change IMO but societies attitudes to them.

Edited April 19, 2010 by poodlefan

[Quickasyoucan]

I don't think societies needs have changed all that much.

I think what's changed is our attitude to and understanding of dogs. People seem to want them to be a one size fits all easy temperament in a range of attractive external packages, they want to find one without effort and in many cases resent being asked questions to establish their suitability to own one.

Once they've got one they don't want to put much effort into training it but expect that it will behave like the highly trained dogs they see on TV or in the movies.

To me, the further we live from nature and the less we share our lives with animals, the more we seem to expect that they should just fit in with what we want and that no sacrifices should be necessary to own one. Failure to understand the needs of a dog and the specific temperaments and needs of particular breeds sees so many dogs offloaded. Dogs lives are more isolated, restricted and controlled these days than at any time in the past.

Frankly for a lot of puppy buyers out there, the ideal dog probably looks like this:

And sadly, there are folk out there selling pups who are prepared to tell buyers that a live dog is no more work than that.

Its not dogs that need to change IMO but societies attitudes to them.

:D PF but is that dog in Deschonko's new range and does it come in red? ;)

[poodlefan]

:D PF but is that dog in Deschonko's new range and does it come in red? ;)

Nope. Deshonko stick to churning out the live stuff. Cheaper to produce and much higher rate of return for a 'better' dog than the one just offloaded.

[Gayle.]

With either of these cases, a Lhasa Apso or a Havanese are perfect purebred alternatives. Sure Hav availability is low but no excuses when it comes to Lhasas.

Or Tibetan Terriers for those who want a slightly larger fluffy.

I have an elderly Lhasa, she is around 16 years old, she's a real character and always has been. Not the sharpest tool in the shed (we used to refer to her as our resident dumb blonde), but really friendly and funny.

[Simply Grand]

Just to add to this discussion, I have spoken to quite a few people recently who truly do not understand that their "labradoodle" isn't a recognised pure bred dog. They have the understanding that it is 'pure breed' because it is from a supposedly pure bred lab and supposedly pure bred poodle, so of course it is a pure bred.

I think education on 'oodles' is essential and promotion of them from certain shows on TV haven't helped the situation.

I am sure there are some responsible cross bred breeders who do all the health testing etc, but they cannot ever produce something to a standard as there are just too many variables, pups will be produced that are more of one breed or the other,so you can get some labxpoodle that don't shed and another that does etc and you can get this variation in every litter, so there is no consistency and I think that is what the person buying the oodle just doesn't understand.

Promotion of purebred dogs needs to be pushed, somehow! Maybe encouraging people to come to dog shows, advertising dog shows locally to attract the public and then having stalls or something like that set up where people's questions and inquiries can be answered and then pointed in the right direction toward breeders.

Also we at shows need to appear much more approachable and friendly to the public at shows, I have had people come up to me and say that so & so wasn't friendly and brushed them off and didn't want to talk about their breed of dog. I understand they may have picked a bad time to talk such as when the exhibitor was getting ready for the ring, but surely we can be friendly, but that is a whole other topic!!!!

I think think you've made excellent points. Availability is also going to be an issue though. Even if the general public are well educated and understand the benefits of pure bred dogs, know how to obtain them, understand why breeders need to question them to determine if they would be a suitable home for a puppy, and have positive experiences in dealing with registered breeders, many people will still not be willing to wait months, years or even weeks for a puppy, usually on a waiting list where they have no idea when they might be successful. I do understand that it's worth the wait for a great dog, but there is plenty of evidence on consumer behaviour showing that if people can't get what they want when they want it, they will find somewhere else.

What's the balance between ethical, conrolled breeding and homing, and meeting demand so buyers don't turn back to puppy farms? I don't know the answer but think it needs to be considered.