Training Not To Pull

[Lollipup]

I'm training my two dogs not to pull on the lead. I train them separately in the street in short sessions each and they usually go well.

My question is - while they are still learning this, can I take them for a walk where I actually want to get both dogs to where we are going such as the beach?? They pull all the way and then are only rewarded by getting where they want to go. So i try my training on them like I do at home but its with both dogs which is entirely different and more difficult. Plus by stiopping or turning the other direction each time they pull we will never get to the beach and i want to get there too!

What's your advice? Do i just not take them for walks together until they have learnt lose leash walking properly? Do I take them in the car to the beach (would prefer not to) so that they aren't rewarded for pulling me all the way there??

Also, am I correct in only training them one at a time with this? Should I concentrate on the young one until he has got it (he does better than the older dog) and then work on the older dog until she gets it, then try it together?

At my wits end with this one. Please be nice.

[sas]

Yeah I wouldn't be taking them out together until they can walk well by themselves. Walking together is a whole different challenge.

Enjoy some one on one time with them, you can take them to the beach individually too

[Lollipup]

I will do that. it will be a challenge as when I leave behind my older dog, she really makes me feel guilty. And when I leave behind the young one, he really carries on, screaming after the older dog. So, just another thing I have to work on!

[wuffles]

I hear ya

I walk my younger dog on a front-attach harness when I have to walk my two together. I also keep them on a really short leash so that I can control them properly. Sometimes I have to walk them together on my own so this was the best compromise for us.

[sas]

I will do that. it will be a challenge as when I leave behind my older dog, she really makes me feel guilty. And when I leave behind the young one, he really carries on, screaming after the older dog. So, just another thing I have to work on!

If you're feeling emotions like that this is probably why you're having problems. Seperation anxiety is also usually caused by the owner due to mis-interpreted pack dynamics.

I would probably reccomend you start learning and implenting Leadership before you start your training.

[Lollipup]

I will do that. it will be a challenge as when I leave behind my older dog, she really makes me feel guilty. And when I leave behind the young one, he really carries on, screaming after the older dog. So, just another thing I have to work on!

If you're feeling emotions like that this is probably why you're having problems. Seperation anxiety is also usually caused by the owner due to mis-interpreted pack dynamics.

I would probably reccomend you start learning and implenting Leadership before you start your training.

He doesn't mind when I leave him. He minds when the older dog leaves him. He also doesn't care if I ignore him. But he barks at the older one when she ignores him. Don't worry, i am implementing leadership.

[Aidan3]

My question is - while they are still learning this, can I take them for a walk where I actually want to get both dogs to where we are going such as the beach?? They pull all the way and then are only rewarded by getting where they want to go.

Hehe, I think you answered your own question there. Even if you are 100% consistent when walking both dogs individually, they might just learn that being walked together means they can pull.

One solution is to invest in front-attaching harnesses. These offer an advantage in that dogs pull much less into them, so if you really just want to get somewhere, you can do that fairly painlessly. The suggestion I make is that, at some point on your walk, you stop and clip the leash to the flat collar and spend some time practising disciplined, consistent loose leash walking. You would begin this with each dog separately at first.

Build up the time you spend practising loose leash walking on the flat collar, and start making these sessions earlier into your walk (when your dogs are more excited). This is an easy transition to loose leash walking on a flat collar that allows you some freedom to actually get out and take your dogs somewhere you need to go in the mean-time.

[Lollipup]

I hear ya

I walk my younger dog on a front-attach harness when I have to walk my two together. I also keep them on a really short leash so that I can control them properly. Sometimes I have to walk them together on my own so this was the best compromise for us.

Thank you for your kind reply wuffles. Nice to meet someone nice and understanding on here ;p

I use the front attach harness too and it helps. If i walk them both on my own on a short leash, they are at my side but heavy haha

[sas]

I will do that. it will be a challenge as when I leave behind my older dog, she really makes me feel guilty. And when I leave behind the young one, he really carries on, screaming after the older dog. So, just another thing I have to work on!

If you're feeling emotions like that this is probably why you're having problems. Seperation anxiety is also usually caused by the owner due to mis-interpreted pack dynamics.

I would probably reccomend you start learning and implenting Leadership before you start your training.

He doesn't mind when I leave him. He minds when the older dog leaves him. He also doesn't care if I ignore him. But he barks at the older one when she ignores him. Don't worry, i am implementing leadership.

I'm not worried, I'm just pointing out things that stand out to me that you may not have seen yourself that may be contributing to the training problem.

Thank you for your kind reply wuffles. Nice to meet someone nice and understanding on here ;p

I understand but may not be giving you responses you want.

Edited September 8, 2010 by sas

[corvus]

He doesn't mind when I leave him. He minds when the older dog leaves him. He also doesn't care if I ignore him. But he barks at the older one when she ignores him.

Separation anxiety doesn't have to be strictly related to a human. It is sometimes (not necessarily always) a case of hyperattachment, and this can be displayed towards one or more members of the dogs' social group, be they human, dog, or whatever else may live with the dog.

My little guy gets upset if I leave without him if I take the other dog as well. He likes to be with as many of the group as he can. I find that he's not nearly as worried if I leave him with something really good to do, like chew on a bone.

And Karen Overall's sit-stay protocol is pretty useful, I think.

As for the original question, if it was me I'd drive them to an off leash area or use no-pull harnesses as others have suggested.

[W Sibs]

Yeah, I think it's a good idea to train them separately.

Charlie and Emmy only walk together if the boyfriend is joining in the walk. 90% of the time they are walked separately (10% is when I'm lazy and don't want take 4 walks a day ):

1, to do training separately

2, bond with them separately and have our alone time together

3, so they can get use of being alone (and not be too dependent on each other)

It was real important to me that neither dogs are TOO attached to each other... they love hanging out with each other and always play together, but they can leave each other to be with me (or the boyfriend)

As for the no pulling on the leash... still working on that with Miss Emmy We are doing if she pulls, I stop and wait for her to come back to me and then start again. Click when she is walking nicely. Sometimes it takes us 20 minutes to get down the driveway. Yes, I have to be consistent. My girl just gets to hyper happy when she gets to go outside and just wants to RUN.

[sas]

He doesn't mind when I leave him. He minds when the older dog leaves him. He also doesn't care if I ignore him. But he barks at the older one when she ignores him.

Separation anxiety doesn't have to be strictly related to a human. It is sometimes (not necessarily always) a case of hyperattachment, and this can be displayed towards one or more members of the dogs' social group, be they human, dog, or whatever else may live with the dog.

My little guy gets upset if I leave without him if I take the other dog as well. He likes to be with as many of the group as he can. I find that he's not nearly as worried if I leave him with something really good to do, like chew on a bone.

And Karen Overall's sit-stay protocol is pretty useful, I think.

As for the original question, if it was me I'd drive them to an off leash area or use no-pull harnesses as others have suggested.

I stated that it is 'Usually' and especially where the Owner is already talking about feeling guilty - this i.m.o should be one thing lookd at first.

[luvsablue]

Hi Tenille,

A really good harness is the Sporn harness, which corrects the puller by tightening under his front legs.

A while using this and you can put them back onto flat collars. They pull more when they know where they are going.

So I'd be taking them in the car (to the beach) or one at a time,

Have fun,

luvsablue and Beckie the blue dog

(who was the world's worst puller, now just likes to walk out in front but with a slack lead)

It took a long time but we got there.

[corvus]

I stated that it is 'Usually' and especially where the Owner is already talking about feeling guilty - this i.m.o should be one thing lookd at first.

I was agreeing that it should be looked at. Whether it's ever about leadership per se depends on what you mean by leadership, I think. But that is beside the point. The dog needn't be distressed as there are things that can be done to help them cope better, regardless of who or what their attachment figure is. And regardless of whether it's actually SA or some form of it in the first place, given I guess it hasn't been diagnosed.

[malsrock]

Back in 1978, I had terrible trouble teaching my dog to loose leash walk and went to training classes to learn how to do it which was done on a leash and check chain back then being the standard practice where a perfect loose leash walk can be achieved easily in a couple of sessions. There are many threads I have read about training the loose leash walk, but why doesn't anyone ever recommend the check chain and a couple of good corrections

I seriously believe that most of the pulling issues I have read about here could be fixed in less than an hour or greatly improved teaching the dog that there is a consequence to it's actions. I can't see that newer supposedly more humane methods works particularly well and ends up with use of head collars and harnesses to manage the behaviour instead of fixing it???.

Fiona

[Stitch]

I hear you Malsrock - one of mine is a chronic puller.

Circumstances alter cases IMO and there is definitely a place for the choker or 'correction' chain.

I think it is a matter of trying everything you can to see what works best on your dog/s.

I have found there is no easy fix - no 1 size fits all - and some dogs are much worse than others.

The challenge is to actually know of all the different methods & be able to implement them correctly.

I am about to try the front harness thing but as I have my puller on a lead frequently it would mean that I would be continually fitting the harness & removing it.

But I will give it a try.

[Staranais]

There are many threads I have read about training the loose leash walk, but why doesn't anyone ever recommend the check chain and a couple of good corrections

Couple of reasons, I think. Firstly IMO it's a bit dodgy recommending someone go off & experiment with check collars over the internet (I've seen people do some really dumb things with check chains before they learn how & when to correct - the most common mistake I've seen is people correcting inconsistently or at the wrong time which both confuses the crap out of the dog & must be stressful for it).

& as I'm sure you've picked up some people won't recommend this method in any situation since they prefer to train (and recommend) positive only methods.

Having said that, if you have someone to show you how to use a check chain (or martingale or PP collar) properly to stop pulling, it works really well in my experience. It's a quick fix - which isn't always a bad thing.

[malsrock]

There are many threads I have read about training the loose leash walk, but why doesn't anyone ever recommend the check chain and a couple of good corrections

Couple of reasons, I think. Firstly IMO it's a bit dodgy recommending someone go off & experiment with check collars over the internet (I've seen people do some really dumb things with check chains before they learn how & when to correct - the most common mistake I've seen is people correcting inconsistently or at the wrong time which both confuses the crap out of the dog & must be stressful for it).

& as I'm sure you've picked up some people won't recommend this method in any situation since they prefer to train (and recommend) positive only methods.

Having said that, if you have someone to show you how to use a check chain (or martingale or PP collar) properly to stop pulling, it works really well in my experience. It's a quick fix - which isn't always a bad thing.

Yeah, it's probably more appropriate to have the check chain method taught correctly in person by a competent trainer........I agree on that aspect, it's just the large amount of dogs I see taking their owners for a walk in recent years and often it's hard to see a dog walking properly. People I bump into around our area on walks that you get know and have a brief chat with over 3 or 4 years I have noticed, are still on head collars and harnessess and the dogs are still all over the place despite having been to training classes and some are still in training with only marginal improvement to how they were 2 years ago when first meeting them???.

I met a woman today with a GSD on a head collar who recommended that I should use one on my Mal, she said, they were terrific and had used one for 4 years as her dog was bouncing around on the end of the leash trying to greet mine. She was telling me how the flat collar on my Mal can collapse his wind pipe and her trainer only uses the head collar now for that reason :p Considering she had used a head collar for 4 years and her dog was seriously all over the place and a shocking leash walker, it left me somewhat in a head scratch

Fiona

[luvsdogs]

I've always used the, we don't go anywhere while the lead is tight, method. I have a damaged shoulder from my previous dog yanking on the end of the lead when she saw other dogs that were running around loose. No amount of lead pops on a choker collar stopped her from doing it & I was taught the correct way of using it.

Even though Tilba is nearly 3 she doesn't pull me down the street & if she tries I stop & remind her that we don't go anywhere if she pulls me. Dogs are opportunists & will at least give it a try on at times.

Here's another method you could try.

[Jadziah]

My question is - while they are still learning this, can I take them for a walk where I actually want to get both dogs to where we are going such as the beach?? They pull all the way and then are only rewarded by getting where they want to go.

The suggestion I make is that, at some point on your walk, you stop and clip the leash to the flat collar and spend some time practising disciplined, consistent loose leash walking. You would begin this with each dog separately at first.

I would have to agree - teaching your dogs seperately to walk nicely should continue, however I see no reason why you can't also enjoy a lovely walk to the beach - without having your arms off. So investing in either a harness or gentle leader would be my advice. And like Aidan2 said try periods where one dog is given the opportunity to 'not pull' by putting on a regular lead for a period of time. If they misbehave, then straight back onto the harness/gentle leader.

I did this with one of the dogs that I was looking after - he was shocking on the lead. Got soooo excited about going somewhere anywhere ) but HATED the gentle leader with a passion. Didn't take long for him to work it out, by the time he left he was walking beautifully on the lead.

Good luck!