When Is Play Not Play?

[Nushie]

A friend recently bought a puppy and she is now 11 weeks old. We have taken Jager over twice to play and meet and give her a bit of a chance to socialise while they are waiting for her 12 week vac. First play date was fine, both were very over the top but played well, and shared the play – one would chase the other and then they would switch, both had time on their backs and they took a breather when they needed too.

However last night when we went over, it started off alright but then about 10 mins in the pup started grabbing for the skin around Jager’s neck – fair enough, he has a lot there to grab hold of. But then it got the point where she wouldn’t let go. We intervened a couple of times just by putting a foot between them and that seemed to break it up, they would play for a bit and then she would latch on again. It started to get to the point where there was no play, we would break them apart and then she would jump all over him trying to get to his neck again. Eventually we had to pick her up (she was still hanging onto him while being picked up) to get her to let go. We left after that.

Jager isn’t a yelper, and he cant ever seem to bite her back as she is too quick for him. So there really is no “pay back” when she does bite him. There was no broken skin, and Jager seemed happy to continue play each time. No growling etc. But just wondering if this is normal for pups to do? I have only every had 2 pups in my life and neither of them has ever done that.

Am I worrying about nothing? Is it just playing that she will just grow out of or another dog wont put up with and teach her a lesson by growling etc.? She will eventually end up being bigger than Jager and we spend a fair bit of time with these friends so there will be lots of times that the dogs interact.

There were using the “give” command (as in when you what them to drop a toy) and then praising her if she let go. There was no repremand like I would have given, as in a growling at her, or a strong “No” so that she knew it wasn’t acceptable.

But maybe it is acceptable and I am just being a big baby….

Thanks

[sas]

You'll need to intervene.

Can I reccomend a method called the Handbrake Method from K9 Pro.

http://www.k9pro.com.au/

[corvus]

Is it normal? I think it is for some puppies! A dog we have known for a couple of years from the dog park started out interacting with my older dog by literally hanging off his cheek by her teeth. He didn't like it, but being the tolerant fellow he is, he didn't tell her off. I intervened maybe two or three times over the course of about a week when it got so bad that Kivi was trying to get away from her. I wondered how we were going to get anywhere with her being incredibly active and drivey and him being so reticent to set rules. To my surprise, the puppy moderated her behaviour over the next week or two and in no time at all was no longer hanging off Kivi's cheek. He did nothing overtly punishing to her, we did nothing overtly punishing to her, but he just kept shaking her off and turning away and she liked play to be faster. He would run around and let her chase him and jump on him if she let go of his cheek. She is now 2 years old by my reckoning, and while she doesn't have the best of manners, she is fine with other dogs and does not harangue them anymore.

Personally, I think it's a case by case thing. I would intervene if one dog looked like they didn't want to play anymore. If both dogs are happy to go back to it, I don't think there's a problem. My opinion is puppies like that need to mix with other dogs so they learn how to interact so that everyone is happy. I don't think necessarily they have to interact with a dog that will punish them to learn that, but if it were my puppy, I think I would be looking for a dog that will. Gently. A very tolerant one. I would not punish myself unless I felt there was no other option. IME punishing a dog for the way it behaves towards another person, dog, or animal doesn't often have much of an impact on them. It's much cleaner if it comes from the one they are interacting with. I think if you wanted to do something about it the most useful would be a "too bad" and put puppy into a pen or behind a fence for a few seconds until it calms down. Time outs are sometimes good for this kind of thing, I think, but it has to be crystal clear, use a marker, and have the time out area really close so there's no fumbling around. If it doesn't start working after, say, 4 reps I'd try something else.

[angeandbella]

You'll need to intervene.

Can I reccomend a method called the Handbrake Method from K9 Pro.

http://www.k9pro.com.au/

Hi, MEH.

I'm probably being dense, but I can't seem to find the method/article on that website -- can you offer any help?

[persephone]

LOL. If your dog doesn't mind- I would leave them be...but perhaps find a special toy/treat the pup enjoys..and distract her with that occasionally...

Hamlet, when a pup used to often run beside the adult dogs for a 100 mtrs, hanging on to their necks..and when he woul let one go, he'd grab another . Occasionally he would get trounced by a not -so-willing adult ..but mostly there was no hassle. he did it for ever so long..