Kustali Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Hi, just wondering where in Brisbane you can get Hip and Elbow X-Rays done for scoring where you don't have to sedate? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asalei Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I know Rowan Kilmartin (Animal Options) gave me two prices for with and without sedation. They are at Ormeau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRUVIC Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Certainly in my breed (GSD's) it's forbidden NOT to use anaesthesia for x-raying hips, so be sure to check the rules and regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Certainly in my breed (GSD's) it's forbidden NOT to use anaesthesia for x-raying hips, so be sure to check the rules and regs. For other breeds they don't have to be sedated provided you get them scored by someone that doesn't require it. If you send them direct to the AVA they have to have had a GA but Wyburn never required it and neither does Rawlinson. Not sure about the others so check first if you plan to use anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 It is best to sedate IMO as in order to get accurate extended rotation of hips, you really need to manipulate the legs and most dogs will resist just at the moment you have everything lined up and press the button. The dog will probably appreciate a sedation more anyway as if it is going to squirm etc, it can be very offputting for a dog to be sprawled out on his back being manhandled (pulled, stretched, twisted) by strangers and they will probably growl at it in order to make it not move Another reason sedation is better is that it helps reduce the number of x-ray radiation the vet clinic staff are exposed to. If the dog doesn't move at the wrong times, they don't have to repeat them and try again etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldchow Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Agree with Dasha, always reluctant myself to sedate my breed and have spoken to my vet who is very experienced in this procedure. He assures me it is well nigh impossible to achieve correct positioning for scores without sedation because it is not the most comfortable postion and can be stressfull for the patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Our vets do my breed all the time without a GA and do great x-rays. Most dogs are fine but the odd one that squirms or struggles against them has to be knocked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kustali Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Thanks for the replies :) dancinbcs which Vet do you visit? I know this person doesn't mind driving, if it's a great Vet and not miles too far away that is! I will ask them to look up the Vet you mentioned Asalei thanks. We have Mastiffs and this is one of the boys i bred that's in QLD, if we can get it done without all the better. It's never nice putting them under especially these big boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lils mum Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) I'm always surprised by this topic on the forums. When I checked with a friend that nothing had changed, and showed her the OP's question, she said 'hopefully nowhere' I'm also surprised. Given the info on the AVA site.....If your films/results are to be included in your breed data within the AVA/ANKC scheme, it seems to me that anaesthesia is required. If they're not suitable for addition to that data, how do you advertise them? the AVA/ANKC hip scheme asks for radiographs from anaesthetised dogs; Eg on the application form; Veterinary Surgeon submitting (a) hip radiograph of anaesthetised dog http://www.ava.com.au/sites/default/files/AVA_website/pdfs/2011CHEDS_appform.pdf And on the information sheet for vets; Veterinary Surgeon submitting (a) hip radiograph of anaesthetised dog http://www.ava.com.au/sites/default/files/CHEDS%20Info%20Sheet%20for%20Vets.pdf my friend finished with the following - "the old fact sheet info the AVA was better, as I'm sure it did mention deep sedation or anaesthesia. beats me why people don't want the most accurate assessment possible. They quibble enough about a point here or there between readers..." I agree - we should be comparing apples with apples, and I really believe that a dog who is not sedated/anaesthetised will not show the same 'status' as a dog who is, no matter how relaxed they may appear. Edited April 24, 2012 by lils mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lils mum Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I've bumped this because I'm genuinely curious to know if the non-sedated results are submitted for inclusion in breed databases, and if people advertising their scores include information that they are done without sedation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I've bumped this because I'm genuinely curious to know if the non-sedated results are submitted for inclusion in breed databases, and if people advertising their scores include information that they are done without sedation? I don't believe these results go into the AVA scheme. They use PennHip however I am guessing these X-rays will be going to a private reader for scoring under a different system. There are strengths and weaknesses in both systems and so people can choose which they go to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I've bumped this because I'm genuinely curious to know if the non-sedated results are submitted for inclusion in breed databases, and if people advertising their scores include information that they are done without sedation? I don't believe these results go into the AVA scheme. They use PennHip however I am guessing these X-rays will be going to a private reader for scoring under a different system. There are strengths and weaknesses in both systems and so people can choose which they go to. They are sent direct to a private reader but the statistics go to the AVA database. We used Prof Wyburn for many years to score them and now most people I know are using Prof Rawlinson. On the forms you have to agree to the stats being sent to the AVA but there is no requirement for a GA like there is on the AVA form. Many of us prefer a private reader for consistancy over the years. With the AVA panel you never know who you will get and the readings vary a lot. I have known of dogs to die under the GA having hips done so avoid it unless absolutely necessary. The difference in the score might be a point or two but that can happen with the positioning and even more so with the reading if it goes to the AVA but really the exact score doesn't matter. What matters is if the dog has good or bad hips. The only issue that can arise is if you are exporting dogs or semen to countries that have cut off scores for breeding but most don't. As for advertising scores, the majority of my breed are done without sedation so no one even thinks about it. Maybe I should advertise my boy's 0:2 as being done with a GA because he is the exception to most but he didn't want to cooperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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