Training Class Etiquette

[dogdayz]

I take my dogs to an obedience school to help with their distraction training. They are both in an advance level class which involves both on and offlead work. You are free to work offlead if you feel you can control the dog.

There is a small breed in the class, who before the lesson had a fight with a larger dog when left unsupervised while its owner was in club room.

During class, owner decided to work offlead, dog immediately races over to another small dog and starts growling/barking. The owner of the second dog (which was behaving fine if a little scared) picks up her dog. The first dog is the leaping at her barking/growling. Its owner still has not gone to retrieve her dog, just stood laughing. Instructor sends her to get dog, she walks over slowly and retrieves dog. She continues to try and do offlead despite her dog being completely unready for it, and the instructor repeatedly telling her to use her lead.

After lesson owner of the small dog that was picked up told the other what she thought of her. So owner of the aggressor dog claims she cannot go get the dog as it would run away so she has to wait for it to come back of its own accord. Meanwhile her dog outside has picked another fight.

Now i can see that as she cannot take her dog in the clubrooms she has to leave it tied up, and when other owners see a tied up unsupervised dog they should keep there own dog clear. i can also see that everyone at some point has to step up to offlead work.

Is it unreasonable for myself to ask for said dog to be muzzled or kept on lead after this behaviour. I cannot take one of my dogs to that class while she continues to work offlead, as he has had fear aggression problems in the past and i dont want any backwards steps, and due to size difference if he were to bite it would be bad.

[Mooper]

Yowsers, what a nasty string of incidences, all of which should have been prevented.

If I were in your situation, I would be speaking with the instructor and club officials. There's no need for it to seem like a personal attack. They can (and should) intervene for the safety and welfare of all the dogs concerned, telling this lady that her dog must be kept on-lead and in her control.

Those last few words are most important.

Every club I know of insists that a dog, offlead or on, be under the control of its handler at all times. And from what you have described, this lady's dog is out of control.

If it doesn't respond to her recall, waiting until it's ready, I question whether she and her dog are ready for advanced classes at all but that's another matter entirely!

[dogdayz]

That was my interpretation of rules, but as my dog was not involved in any of the incidents i wasnt sure i can really make an issue. Her other dog same breed older by a year is the same and has quit obedience but still does agility there (hence i do not). Im not sure either are genuinely aggressive or just show the tenacity their breed is reputed for. I dont know how this dog has come to be in this class, some owners seem to just put themselves in the one they see as appropriate because they dont agree with the instructor.

[jeff]

yes I seen the dog have it's first fight and was surprised nothing seem to be said or done about it

but I agree it should be muzzled or restrained better

[dogdayz]

Has just come to light that owner is a commitee member

[sidoney]

Make a formal complaint in writing and present it at a meeting if nothing is done. Have others also complain in writing. Can be hard to get things done if they are part of the entrenched power group.

[dogdayz]

yes I seen the dog have it's first fight and was surprised nothing seem to be said or done about it

but I agree it should be muzzled or restrained better

It is suprising as another dog previously was required to be muzzled and she only used to lunge at dogs, never actually got involved in any fights. I suspect its the owners status and it being a small dog that is allowing this one to get away with it - the previous was a staffyx handled by a young boy, they would be an easier target i guess.

I question whether she and her dog are ready for advanced classes at all but that's another matter entirely!

Strangely last time i came across it was two classes back when it was being aggressive on lead during weaves, and certainly it did not get moved up with us, and we rose 2 classes in past two weeks so i think this is a case of the owner selecting her own level.

[Sparty]

I have to question what club this is!! we have testing done maybe once a month usually only dogs the class trainer thinks are ready to be tested even see the assessing person.

The only way around that is if you get a pass in novice or encouragement.

It annoys me there is politics in something that should be fun and a pleasant experience

What is the point of having different levels of classes if people can just pick or choose, just becasue she is a commitee member doesnt mean she is above the rules, IMHO they should know the rules best and lead by example!!!!

Jen

[yogibear]

hi guys

I saw the incident too i would write to the committee and let them know your concerns i was in the next class and believe was keeping one eye on the dog in case it came my way

yb

[yogibear]

hi i meant to add im surproised the instructor didnt intervene i had a phone conversation with him and he was very up on how aggression should be handled so i wonder why he didnt get involved

yb

[dogdayz]

Sparty - rather than an assessment session. The dogs that reach class standard are put up that week, others are told what they need to work on and stay down. the reason my boy jumped two classes so quick was that he has been sick and also training elsewhere and i have only just returned him there, so he was starting effectively in a class he was put into almost a year earlier.

YB - i understood why no action was taken in the class itself simply you dont need an arguement in the middle of training, but i was suprised nothing was done after, particualrly as 2 fights happened right outside clubroom doors. Like i said he was telling her to keep it on lead but she ignored it.

I'll take my other dog next time as i know she wont be reactive if it bothers us, but i will definiely report it if it happens again. I dont want my dog getting the blame if he ends up biting it.

A few weeks back when i was there an instructor mentioned there had been an incident (with damage) involving two dogs (he said it was this breed but didnt mention the individual concerned), did anyone see that? If its more than just 'an off day' they will have to do something.

Edited April 19, 2005 by dogdayz

[Sparty]

Hey Dogdayz, I have no problem with dogs going up 2 classes sometimes things just click in your dogs head and it all falls into place

my concern was she can just put herself in what ever class she wants to?? you want to be training with other dogs of your own standard, very depressing watching how well someone else (i mean miles ahead not jsut a good day) is doing while your dog is trying to acrobatics and imitating a demon possession on the end of its lead, or your dog behaving and someone with no control bounds into you and messes with your hard work. Also where is the sense of achievement in passing?

Jen

[yogibear]

Hi Dogdayz

Maybe it was simply because of the shortage of instructors sunday i know most were away so it could be dealt with before next class

yb

[dogdayz]

my concern was she can just put herself in what ever class she wants to??

Strictly speaking she cant, but a couple of instructors and a couple of competition people do pick there classes as they know there dogs levels, and they use it more for distraction than true training (much as i do but i still go through the classes), so i guess others may feel they can do the same. Alternatively you can request an individual assessment, this is done with just you and any aggression issues would not show, howver this is normally only done for those moving to the area with dogs who have done plenty of training previously. I cannot imagine she could have done this as even on lead her sits, stays and drops were well below required standard. Certainly some people do consider their dog hard done by not to be put up, rose tinted glasses in some cases, but there have been times with my collie i did despair with instructor inconsistencies.

I guess if you go into a class of your choice who can say otherwise - its not like anyone asks to see your class certificates.

Maybe she got a very nice instructor one day and got moved up.

I certainly wont be entering the members comp in a few weeks and doing distance stays with her in the class.

[dogdayz]

Maybe it was simply because of the shortage of instructors sunday i know most were away so it could be dealt with before next class

Hopefully, though with no training this week it is probably forgotten until it happens again.

[yogibear]

Hi

I was given a coloured sticker when i joined so you would assume they only had to look at it to see what class the person should be in.

The members comp is a little bit away yet so maybe it will be sorted by then you you could have gone up a class too..

I agree though i dont do stays with suspicious dogs when they are all going to be off lead

yb

[dogdayz]

Didnt notice her wearing her badge - too busy watching her dog.

Problem with the sticker system is if you have two dogs. For instance when my collie was in white my weim was in beginners, therefore i was wearing a white sticker even though at that time my weim had not qualified for any certificate colour classes. I think vaguely from memory her other dog did make it into white which is the class she was in sunday with this dog.

The members comp is a little bit away yet so maybe it will be sorted by then you you could have gone up a class too

Hopefully the collie will go up, the requirement for white seems to have come down since she last was there, so maybe she will make it into green. The weim has no hope as i wont work him offlead while this dog is present.

[yogibear]

Yeah i know what you mean about the stickers

fingers crossed you go up in the next few weeks then

yb

[Purple Julie]

I haven't read through all the replies, I am replying to the original post here.

The obedience school that I go to won't let dogs into the advanced class if they display aggressive behaviour, and if they are in advanced and display aggression for the first time and continue with it, then they are put back into the next level down, below advanced where there is no off-lead work.

[Kavik]

My Kelpie cross is dog aggressive. For this reason we never did off lead heeling work in class (except for assessment), I thought it was too risky. We got to the point where we could do off lead recalls happily (she has a blinding fast recall!) and I could drop the lead and walk a good distance away in group stays. I got to novice class with her, the first of the trialling classes. The problem I had in one club is they kept wanting me to do more off lead work than I was comfortable with. The club I am with at the moment is not like that, they let you work with where you are comfortable.

Now I am training Diesel who is very dog friendly, so don't have that problem